2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[King of Canada]

Why would I do that

Randle and Bagley T. rex twin towers off my bench

All PF lineup. Mills would be proud.

[HEZI]

he's older than both, thats for certain

He's 22 not 32

it will feel like he's 32 when his rookie contract is over

He will be another contract away before that happens

[3toheadmelo]

Randle and Bagley T. rex twin towers off my bench

All PF lineup. Mills would be proud.

[WargamesX]

By a October draft, we’ll have debated all the second round picks.

[HarthorneWingo]

By a October draft, we’ll have debated all the second round picks.

I was just about to ask that exact question. October?

[aq_ua]

By a October draft, we’ll have debated all the second round picks.

By October, half the draft pool will already have been declared busts, and the other half will have been declared untouchable.

*Based on historical timeline.

[mpharris36]

By a October draft, we’ll have debated all the second round picks.

I was just about to ask that exact question. October?

the new proposal the league has the finals game 7 ending Oct 12. So the draft and FA would happen after that.

[HarthorneWingo]

By a October draft, we’ll have debated all the second round picks.

I was just about to ask that exact question. October?

the new proposal the league has the finals game 7 ending Oct 12. So the draft and FA would happen after that.

Oh okay. And what about next season? Starting in 2021?

[mpharris36]

I was just about to ask that exact question. October?

the new proposal the league has the finals game 7 ending Oct 12. So the draft and FA would happen after that.

Oh okay. And what about next season? Starting in 2021?

My thought is opening day would be christmas. That is the NBA's biggest day of the year would make sense to start the season then.

[robillionaire]

So late September early October lottery then? We gonna have a fall league instead of summer league

[Zenzibar]

On Frank Ntilikina being a defensive wiz...

Out of the 205 players in the NBA that has played more than 40 games this season and who averaged more than 20 minutes a game Frank Ntilkina currently ranks 95 in terms of Defensive Rating (Giannis is no.1), 148 in terms of Defensive Win Shares Per Game (Giannis also is no.1 here) and 23 in steal percentage (Dejuante Murray is no.1). Other than steal percentage, I'm not sure that the notion that Frank Ntilikina is an elite defensive player is necessarily true. He may be one of the best defenders on the Knicks (he's tops on the Knicks in Defensive Rating and 4th in Defensive Win Shares per game) but I think we may be looking at this through some sort of jaded lenses here. Bit of that reverse grass is greener perspective here maybe? Guys trying to talk themselves into something more than it is?

Given that I'm a big Frank supporter, I'd be curious to know what is the rank by the youngest in that defensive rating list.

Also it's funny that James "Big D" Harden is ranked at a guady 43, slightly ahead of Kristaps Porzingis who is ranked 55 in defensive win/shares. Would that be accurate in your opinion?

lets just boil this down to simplest simplest terms.


Player A

offensive win shares = -4.0
defensive win shares = +2.0

net -2

Player B

ows = +4.0
dws= -2.0

net +2


that's what arguing about frank is. He's a bench player whose ok to see 15-20mpg tops because you need to score in this league. His defense is nice, but he's still likely a net negative on the floor in terms of actual win contribution.

You jumped the argument and reason for my post because it was based on flawed defensive win shares. Same type of analytics you're twisitng to add James Hardens offensive stats, which have nothing to do with the flow of the replies.

[HarthorneWingo]

So late September early October lottery then? We gonna have a fall league instead of summer league

In other words, if we can't get it right this time, then either we still suck in the scouting department or it's all just pure luck.

Spoiler:

Or ... it's fixed

[moocow007]

Given that I'm a big Frank supporter, I'd be curious to know what is the rank by the youngest in that defensive rating list.

Also it's funny that James "Big D" Harden is ranked at a guady 43, slightly ahead of Kristaps Porzingis who is ranked 55 in defensive win/shares. Would that be accurate in your opinion?

lets just boil this down to simplest simplest terms.


Player A

offensive win shares = -4.0
defensive win shares = +2.0

net -2

Player B

ows = +4.0
dws= -2.0

net +2


that's what arguing about frank is. He's a bench player whose ok to see 15-20mpg tops because you need to score in this league. His defense is nice, but he's still likely a net negative on the floor in terms of actual win contribution.

You jumped the argument and reason for my post because it was based on flawed defensive win shares. Same type of analytics you're twisitng to add James Hardens offensive stats, which have nothing to do with the flow of the replies.

So how do you want to measure how "elite" a defender Frank is? You tell me. Eye test? Now mind you I'm hardly someone that favors stats. So is that (eye test) your argument for Frank being an "elite" defender instead of just a pretty good one? Folks throw stats around but only when it suits an argument. Thats the reason why I veer away from stats usually. My issue here is the notion that Frank is an "elite" "shutdown" defender not that he's not a very good defender.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[robillionaire]

So late September early October lottery then? We gonna have a fall league instead of summer league

In other words, if we can't get it right this time, then either we still suck in the scouting department or it's pure luck.

It could still be both

[HarthorneWingo]

So late September early October lottery then? We gonna have a fall league instead of summer league

In other words, if we can't get it right this time, then either we still suck in the scouting department or it's pure luck.

It could still be both

Or, hopefully, it's fixed ... again

[aggo]

Given that I'm a big Frank supporter, I'd be curious to know what is the rank by the youngest in that defensive rating list.

Also it's funny that James "Big D" Harden is ranked at a guady 43, slightly ahead of Kristaps Porzingis who is ranked 55 in defensive win/shares. Would that be accurate in your opinion?

lets just boil this down to simplest simplest terms.


Player A

offensive win shares = -4.0
defensive win shares = +2.0

net -2

Player B

ows = +4.0
dws= -2.0

net +2


that's what arguing about frank is. He's a bench player whose ok to see 15-20mpg tops because you need to score in this league. His defense is nice, but he's still likely a net negative on the floor in terms of actual win contribution.

You jumped the argument and reason for my post because it was based on flawed defensive win shares. Same type of analytics you're twisitng to add James Hardens offensive stats, which have nothing to do with the flow of the replies.

im not twisting analytics.

its not 2016 anymore. Hell, its not even 2018 anymore.

the average NBA score went from 103 to 112 from 16-'19

Having a guy play 30mpg that can't score doesnt work more in the NBA. No one can afford to play Andre Roberson or Tony Allen anymore, that's just the reality. It's a simple math problem at this point. If you have a guy playing 30mpg and he averages 8ppg, you need to get to 104 points from the rest of the team. It just doesnt work because frank is a dead weight where his overall contribution to winning is a net negative no matter how good his defense is.

It doesnt even matter if Frank is an elite defender. If he can't score 16ppg he can't be playing starter minutes.

[mpharris36]

lets just boil this down to simplest simplest terms.


Player A

offensive win shares = -4.0
defensive win shares = +2.0

net -2

Player B

ows = +4.0
dws= -2.0

net +2


that's what arguing about frank is. He's a bench player whose ok to see 15-20mpg tops because you need to score in this league. His defense is nice, but he's still likely a net negative on the floor in terms of actual win contribution.

You jumped the argument and reason for my post because it was based on flawed defensive win shares. Same type of analytics you're twisitng to add James Hardens offensive stats, which have nothing to do with the flow of the replies.

im not twisting analytics.

its not 2016 anymore. Hell, its not even 2018 anymore.

the average NBA score went from 103 to 112 from 16-'19

Having a guy play 30mpg that can't score doesnt work more in the NBA. No one can afford to play Andre Roberson or Tony Allen anymore, that's just the reality. It's a simple math problem at this point. If you have a guy playing 30mpg and he averages 8ppg, you need to get to 104 points from the rest of the team. It just doesnt work because frank is a dead weight where his overall contribution to winning is a net negative no matter how good his defense is.

It doesnt even matter if Frank is an elite defender. If he can't score 16ppg he can't be playing starter minutes.

what kind of logic is that?

im not arguing frank here just 16 ppg required for a starter??? is ludicris.

3/5 of most teams starting lineup don't avg 16 ppg. In the NBA this year only 64 players avg 16ppg...that is like 2 per team

[HarthorneWingo]

lets just boil this down to simplest simplest terms.


Player A

offensive win shares = -4.0
defensive win shares = +2.0

net -2

Player B

ows = +4.0
dws= -2.0

net +2


that's what arguing about frank is. He's a bench player whose ok to see 15-20mpg tops because you need to score in this league. His defense is nice, but he's still likely a net negative on the floor in terms of actual win contribution.

You jumped the argument and reason for my post because it was based on flawed defensive win shares. Same type of analytics you're twisitng to add James Hardens offensive stats, which have nothing to do with the flow of the replies.

So how do you want to measure how "elite" a defender Frank is? You tell me. Eye test? Now mind you I'm hardly someone that favors stats. So is that (eye test) your argument for Frank being an "elite" defender instead of just a pretty good one? Folks throw stats around but only when it suits an argument. Thats the reason why I veer away from stats usually. My issue here is the notion that Frank is an "elite" "shutdown" defender not that he's not a very good defender.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

I believe both GONYK and the moderator formerly known as Prince, um, I mean Knickstape1214 posted stats too showing how much better the overall team defense is when Frank's on the court. For me, it's the eye test. As to how good he will get? I'll just say that he and Mitch are our best defenders. They are game changing defenders. Elite? No. For me, that's only after you've been NBA All Defense a few years in a row. I think they have that potential though.

[Zenzibar]

lets just boil this down to simplest simplest terms.


Player A

offensive win shares = -4.0
defensive win shares = +2.0

net -2

Player B

ows = +4.0
dws= -2.0

net +2


that's what arguing about frank is. He's a bench player whose ok to see 15-20mpg tops because you need to score in this league. His defense is nice, but he's still likely a net negative on the floor in terms of actual win contribution.

You jumped the argument and reason for my post because it was based on flawed defensive win shares. Same type of analytics you're twisitng to add James Hardens offensive stats, which have nothing to do with the flow of the replies.

So how do you want to measure how "elite" a defender Frank is? You tell me. Eye test? Now mind you I'm hardly someone that favors stats. So is that (eye test) your argument for Frank being an "elite" defender instead of just a pretty good one? Folks throw stats around but only when it suits an argument. Thats the reason why I veer away from stats usually. My issue here is the notion that Frank is an "elite" "shutdown" defender not that he's not a very good defender.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

TBH, I'm not sure how to factor numbers into this. Yesterday I looked up his defensive stats and wasn't that impressed then saw Harden listed in the 40s and knew that stats don't say the whole truth. Harden sucks.

Personally, I do use my eye test. Does said player guard the toughest assignment, does he play the lanes, does he position himself correctly to mke the PnR difficult? Stuff like that. Watching some film, and only to me, Frank has elite skills that very few players his age have.

Watch on YouTube

[Zenzibar]

lets just boil this down to simplest simplest terms.


Player A

offensive win shares = -4.0
defensive win shares = +2.0

net -2

Player B

ows = +4.0
dws= -2.0

net +2


that's what arguing about frank is. He's a bench player whose ok to see 15-20mpg tops because you need to score in this league. His defense is nice, but he's still likely a net negative on the floor in terms of actual win contribution.

You jumped the argument and reason for my post because it was based on flawed defensive win shares. Same type of analytics you're twisitng to add James Hardens offensive stats, which have nothing to do with the flow of the replies.

im not twisting analytics.

its not 2016 anymore. Hell, its not even 2018 anymore.

the average NBA score went from 103 to 112 from 16-'19

Having a guy play 30mpg that can't score doesnt work more in the NBA. No one can afford to play Andre Roberson or Tony Allen anymore, that's just the reality. It's a simple math problem at this point. If you have a guy playing 30mpg and he averages 8ppg, you need to get to 104 points from the rest of the team. It just doesnt work because frank is a dead weight where his overall contribution to winning is a net negative no matter how good his defense is.

It doesnt even matter if Frank is an elite defender. If he can't score 16ppg he can't be playing starter minutes.

You're twisting numbers again. If the average score per game goes up to 112 but you can keep your opponent to under league average due to personnel, then you have a better overall chance of winning. AM I wrong?

Additionally, I would argue that GSW 2018 Finals win was just as due to playing stellar defense and holding the Cavs to under league average. Durant's defense is really underrated, Klay is elite and Dray is elite.

But I can't argue that Frank shoots too well, to suck this bad on offense. It's imperative that Nkilikina hits that 16pt a game level or he may not have a future in NY. Too many draft picks in the cubbie hole not to be able to find someone else.

Till that time, I'm pulling for Nkilikina.