2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[newyorker4ever]

Deni Avdija

https://email.fansided.com/c/eJx1TkluxSAUOw3ZETGVkEUWv0W5QA9QvTA0_ASIMvQrty-o60pPfpJt2bYDCKk63oSBEUaIJJxyQSltafvR606pTvf8MSrdaySIh3QE62xrcmzmQfjeeiomMgFME1dKvnFPOuo8McxL36zDfJ7bgfgDsbGchbDeSwpmOWpEYWpreURWYAWSe-E77wv-s2HrUsDwY8MT8JXWbBZ8OogH3vLp0hlgrdF8vM74ZSBuEL4T4nqE9FmXIvauaylisjqOfO3G_a9HZ8MVi-5iYZt9cNYG175ccQpyw5xzHf4LYk5i0w

The New York Knicks have options at the 2020 NBA Draft. None are quite as polarizing as Deni Avdija, but the upside is tough to ignore.
The New York Knicks are as familiar as any franchise in the NBA with the recent rise in international prospects turned NBA Draft stars. In recent years, New York notably selected Danilo Gallinari at No. 6 overall in 2008 and Kristaps Porzingis at No. 3 overall in 2014.

New York also invested the No. 3 overall selection at the 2019 NBA Draft in Canadian slasher RJ Barrett, although he’d admittedly played a season under the NCAA banner.

Looking around the NBA, international players have evolved into omnipresent forces in contemporary rotations. Gone are the stereotypes of yesteryear, as the likes of Steven Adams, Bojan Bogdanovic, Marc Gasol, and Serge Ibaka have carved out productive roles on playoff teams.

Taking it a step further, the following international players made All-Star or All-NBA teams over the past three seasons alone:

Giannis Antetokounmpo of Greece.
Luka Doncic of Slovenia.
Goran Dragic of Slovenia.
Rudy Gobert of France.
Nikola Jokic of Serbia.
Kristaps Porzingis of Latvia.
Nikola Vucevic, who was born in Switzerland and represents Montenegro in international play.
That doesn’t include players who were born overseas and attended colleges in the United States, such as Joel Embiid and Pascal Siakam.

As international players make their mark as star-caliber players and high-level starters, the NBA Draft has evolved. Scouts are spending more time overseas and general managers are becoming more comfortable with the idea of drafting an international prospect.

That could open the door for the Knicks to move in on the most highly-coveted international player in the 2020 NBA Draft: Deni Avdija.

[thebuzzardman]

Frank could be a 12/6 PG and be an asset to most teams with the level of defense he plays, as a starter.

Of course, he'd be a better fit if a team had at least one big scorer.

Mostly, he probably profiles as a bench PG with some ability to back up 2 and 3. Not ideal for the 8th pick, but it happens and life goes on.

It's fairly established the Knicks will draft a PG.
Have that player start, have Frank back him up.

Pick one of DSJr or Trier to stay more than a couple of years, since both are basically scoring guards off the bench. Obviously DSJr is more a PG, Trier a SG, but Knicks can't carry 4 PG's - it's dumb. Edge Trier.

I'd also retain Dotson, since he actually defends and can shoot.
Retaining Dotson or Trier is HIGHLY dependent on how much $ they are asking/get offered by another team, and years.
I don't see a reason to commit to either long term. Meaning 2 year deals better, 3 if it really lowers the price.

As I've said before, there's also an argument for keeping DSJr as your backup PG instead of Frank.

I just figure on a team mostly devoid of players who can defend the perimeter to the extent it can be defended anymore, retain that player(s) at a reasonable. Price. This also depends on who the Knicks draft at PG. If LaMelo, Frank makes more sense. If Haliburton, there's a case for DSJr or Frank, but makes retaining DSJr more likely.

[HEZI]

Frank has shown flashes of elite defense but he just lacks consistency. There were times where he was so disruptive defensively and I can't remember what game in particular, might have been against the Mavs, but man was he showing some unique defensive versatility. But between those games there were a lot of games where he just was invisible and didn't do much or he would pick up quick fouls and take himself out the game with foul trouble. Those are issues that can be fixed over time as he gets more experienced and comfortable being a pro in the NBA and learning.

I think we just shouldn't overwhelm him with additional responsibility like I see some folks asking for. They want him to be somebody offensively that he isn't and those expectations lead to disappointment. We should look to get better offensive guards and then just allow Frank to fit in where he belongs best, as a game changing defensive wing you bring off the bench. Depending on the matchups and flow of the game, he can close out games too but ideally that would be his best role.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Deni Avdija

https://email.fansided.com/c/eJx1TkluxSAUOw3ZETGVkEUWv0W5QA9QvTA0_ASIMvQrty-o60pPfpJt2bYDCKk63oSBEUaIJJxyQSltafvR606pTvf8MSrdaySIh3QE62xrcmzmQfjeeiomMgFME1dKvnFPOuo8McxL36zDfJ7bgfgDsbGchbDeSwpmOWpEYWpreURWYAWSe-E77wv-s2HrUsDwY8MT8JXWbBZ8OogH3vLp0hlgrdF8vM74ZSBuEL4T4nqE9FmXIvauaylisjqOfO3G_a9HZ8MVi-5iYZt9cNYG175ccQpyw5xzHf4LYk5i0w

The New York Knicks have options at the 2020 NBA Draft. None are quite as polarizing as Deni Avdija, but the upside is tough to ignore.
The New York Knicks are as familiar as any franchise in the NBA with the recent rise in international prospects turned NBA Draft stars. In recent years, New York notably selected Danilo Gallinari at No. 6 overall in 2008 and Kristaps Porzingis at No. 3 overall in 2014.

New York also invested the No. 3 overall selection at the 2019 NBA Draft in Canadian slasher RJ Barrett, although he’d admittedly played a season under the NCAA banner.

Looking around the NBA, international players have evolved into omnipresent forces in contemporary rotations. Gone are the stereotypes of yesteryear, as the likes of Steven Adams, Bojan Bogdanovic, Marc Gasol, and Serge Ibaka have carved out productive roles on playoff teams.

Taking it a step further, the following international players made All-Star or All-NBA teams over the past three seasons alone:

Giannis Antetokounmpo of Greece.
Luka Doncic of Slovenia.
Goran Dragic of Slovenia.
Rudy Gobert of France.
Nikola Jokic of Serbia.
Kristaps Porzingis of Latvia.
Nikola Vucevic, who was born in Switzerland and represents Montenegro in international play.
That doesn’t include players who were born overseas and attended colleges in the United States, such as Joel Embiid and Pascal Siakam.

As international players make their mark as star-caliber players and high-level starters, the NBA Draft has evolved. Scouts are spending more time overseas and general managers are becoming more comfortable with the idea of drafting an international prospect.

That could open the door for the Knicks to move in on the most highly-coveted international player in the 2020 NBA Draft: Deni Avdija.

Killian Hayes is the international guy i want

[HEZI]

Having said that, I do expect him to show a lot more next year as far as offensive production goes. If he does show progress offensively then he can easily slide into a starting 2 guard role but I just wouldn't let those expectations stop me from still looking to acquire better guards at the 1 and 2. Nothing wrong with having good guard depth

[mpharris36]

Frank has shown flashes of elite defense but he just lacks consistency. There were times where he was so disruptive defensively and I can't remember what game in particular, might have been against the Mavs, but man was he showing some unique defensive versatility. But between those games there were a lot of games where he just was invisible and didn't do much or he would pick up quick fouls and take himself out the game with foul trouble. Those are issues that can be fixed over time as he gets more experienced and comfortable being a pro in the NBA and learning.

I think we just shouldn't overwhelm him with additional responsibility like I see some folks asking for. They want him to be somebody offensively that he isn't and those expectations lead to disappointment. We should look to get better offensive guards and then just allow Frank to fit in where he belongs best, as a game changing defensive wing you bring off the bench. Depending on the matchups and flow of the game, he can close out games too but ideally that would be his best role.

Watch on YouTube

I think you are referencing this game. I mean watch this 4 minute clip and my jaw is on the floor with what he can do defensively.

He goes from shutting down Luka, to then bothering a bunch of KP's shots, to chasing down THjr attempt at the rim, to contested defensive rebounds. There aren't many players in the league near his age that have as much defensive versatility he has.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults, but there are enough defensive highlights in this one game that could make up a month of action for some of the knicks.

[mpharris36]

Frank could be a 12/6 PG and be an asset to most teams with the level of defense he plays, as a starter.

Of course, he'd be a better fit if a team had at least one big scorer.

Mostly, he probably profiles as a bench PG with some ability to back up 2 and 3. Not ideal for the 8th pick, but it happens and life goes on.

It's fairly established the Knicks will draft a PG.
Have that player start, have Frank back him up.

Pick one of DSJr or Trier to stay more than a couple of years, since both are basically scoring guards off the bench. Obviously DSJr is more a PG, Trier a SG, but Knicks can't carry 4 PG's - it's dumb. Edge Trier.

I'd also retain Dotson, since he actually defends and can shoot.
Retaining Dotson or Trier is HIGHLY dependent on how much $ they are asking/get offered by another team, and years.
I don't see a reason to commit to either long term. Meaning 2 year deals better, 3 if it really lowers the price.

As I've said before, there's also an argument for keeping DSJr as your backup PG instead of Frank.

I just figure on a team mostly devoid of players who can defend the perimeter to the extent it can be defended anymore, retain that player(s) at a reasonable. Price. This also depends on who the Knicks draft at PG. If LaMelo, Frank makes more sense. If Haliburton, there's a case for DSJr or Frank, but makes retaining DSJr more likely.

He ideally fits next to a playmaking bigger guard or wing. Kinda like Luka, Harden, Giannis, LeBron, Simmons type where he defend the PG on defense and play more of a secondary playmaking guard on offense.

He does need to be much more consistent with his shot, and if the knicks don't have that player (I don't really see RJ as the main guy at least not yet) then its probably more ideal to have him come of the bench especially if we draft LaMelo, Hayes, or Haliburton who all are more talented than Frank offensively.

If say we drafted Edwards, then I think Frank would be an ideal start with Edwards and RJ. Because you would need a lower usage PG next to Edwards and RJ who both like to have the ball in there hands as scorers.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Frank could be a 12/6 PG and be an asset to most teams with the level of defense he plays, as a starter.

Of course, he'd be a better fit if a team had at least one big scorer.

Mostly, he probably profiles as a bench PG with some ability to back up 2 and 3. Not ideal for the 7th pick, but it happens and life goes on.

It's fairly established the Knicks will draft a PG.
Have that player start, have Frank back him up.

Pick one of DSJr or Trier to stay more than a couple of years, since both are basically scoring guards off the bench. Obviously DSJr is more a PG, Trier a SG, but Knicks can't carry 4 PG's - it's dumb. Edge Trier.

I'd also retain Dotson, since he actually defends and can shoot.
Retaining Dotson or Trier is HIGHLY dependent on how much $ they are asking/get offered by another team, and years.
I don't see a reason to commit to either long term. Meaning 2 year deals better, 3 if it really lowers the price.

As I've said before, there's also an argument for keeping DSJr as your backup PG instead of Frank.

I just figure on a team mostly devoid of players who can defend the perimeter to the extent it can be defended anymore, retain that player(s) at a reasonable. Price. This also depends on who the Knicks draft at PG. If LaMelo, Frank makes more sense. If Haliburton, there's a case for DSJr or Frank, but makes retaining DSJr more likely.

Find a starting PG in the draft (or free agency/trade if it doesnt work out) and bring Frank off the bench sounds like a good plan. I want to see Frank play minutes at both PG and SG so he can also play next to another PG too.

Frank has been slowly getting better and if he can just get a consistent 3 could be a very useful player. He still has to get there and can't really count on him to be our starting PG. But might as well try to continue to develop him in a role

I also like the idea of bringing Dotson back. I imagine he won't be too expensive. Extending someone we drafted??? That is unheard of for the Knicks so would love to do that for once.

[malik959]

October? They might as well just combine the drafts!!

[HEZI]

Frank has shown flashes of elite defense but he just lacks consistency. There were times where he was so disruptive defensively and I can't remember what game in particular, might have been against the Mavs, but man was he showing some unique defensive versatility. But between those games there were a lot of games where he just was invisible and didn't do much or he would pick up quick fouls and take himself out the game with foul trouble. Those are issues that can be fixed over time as he gets more experienced and comfortable being a pro in the NBA and learning.

I think we just shouldn't overwhelm him with additional responsibility like I see some folks asking for. They want him to be somebody offensively that he isn't and those expectations lead to disappointment. We should look to get better offensive guards and then just allow Frank to fit in where he belongs best, as a game changing defensive wing you bring off the bench. Depending on the matchups and flow of the game, he can close out games too but ideally that would be his best role.

Watch on YouTube

I think you are referencing this game. I mean watch this 4 minute clip and my jaw is on the floor with what he can do defensively.

He goes from shutting down Luka, to then bothering a bunch of KP's shots, to chasing down THjr attempt at the rim, to contested defensive rebounds. There aren't many players in the league near his age that have as much defensive versatility he has.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults, but there are enough defensive highlights in this one game that could make up a month of action for some of the knicks.

Yes! This was it. Man those games against the Mavs were our championship games this season. I don't think I've ever been more impressed with Frank than those games. If he played like that consistently we would be in much better shape as a team but unfortunately he just couldn't sustain that level of focus and aggressiveness.

[Richard4444]

Defensive players are not valued in todays NBA. Especially perimeters defenders, You cant compare the salaries of Smart, Iguodala, Danny Green, Avery Bradley, Cory Joseph, Patrick Bervely with offense wings that makes the Max or near max salaries. You can get a lockdown perimeter defender at anytime on their price range (using MLE, small trades, low draft picks).

And we are assuming Frank will be a lockdown defender, what you dont have sure that will be. His mentality is a concern to me. He looks to be too sensitive and starts to play poorly after mistakes, what would explain his lack of consistency.

Its far more difficult to get offensive players. They rarely are on the market and cost money. We have to save cap space to difference makers. Perimeter defense specialist is the last player you get to build a team considering the importance of salary cap management.

Frank"s contract will end next season. If we can get a great value on an extension, we have to try to trade him.

[mpharris36]

October? They might as well just combine the drafts!!

Ideally they should just make the new schedule the new NBA schedule.

It always made sense to have the NBA start on Christmas day. And then finish around in August sometime.

At that point the only sport they are really competing with is Baseball...and the baseball playoffs haven't started yet. That is more months the NBA doesn't have to compete with the NFL on Thursday/Sunday/Monday which would be huge for them.

[robillionaire]

Frank has shown flashes of elite defense but he just lacks consistency. There were times where he was so disruptive defensively and I can't remember what game in particular, might have been against the Mavs, but man was he showing some unique defensive versatility. But between those games there were a lot of games where he just was invisible and didn't do much or he would pick up quick fouls and take himself out the game with foul trouble. Those are issues that can be fixed over time as he gets more experienced and comfortable being a pro in the NBA and learning.

I think we just shouldn't overwhelm him with additional responsibility like I see some folks asking for. They want him to be somebody offensively that he isn't and those expectations lead to disappointment. We should look to get better offensive guards and then just allow Frank to fit in where he belongs best, as a game changing defensive wing you bring off the bench. Depending on the matchups and flow of the game, he can close out games too but ideally that would be his best role.

Watch on YouTube

I think you are referencing this game. I mean watch this 4 minute clip and my jaw is on the floor with what he can do defensively.

He goes from shutting down Luka, to then bothering a bunch of KP's shots, to chasing down THjr attempt at the rim, to contested defensive rebounds. There aren't many players in the league near his age that have as much defensive versatility he has.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults, but there are enough defensive highlights in this one game that could make up a month of action for some of the knicks.

Yes! This was it. Man those games against the Mavs were our championship games this season. I don't think I've ever been more impressed with Frank than those games. If he played like that consistently we would be in much better shape as a team but unfortunately he just couldn't sustain that level of focus and aggressiveness.

Yeah, I only went to a couple games this season but the one against the Mavs was one of them and it was basically our championship. I somehow always seem to get lucky with picking out that one or two particular good games we have every year

[mpharris36]

Frank has shown flashes of elite defense but he just lacks consistency. There were times where he was so disruptive defensively and I can't remember what game in particular, might have been against the Mavs, but man was he showing some unique defensive versatility. But between those games there were a lot of games where he just was invisible and didn't do much or he would pick up quick fouls and take himself out the game with foul trouble. Those are issues that can be fixed over time as he gets more experienced and comfortable being a pro in the NBA and learning.

I think we just shouldn't overwhelm him with additional responsibility like I see some folks asking for. They want him to be somebody offensively that he isn't and those expectations lead to disappointment. We should look to get better offensive guards and then just allow Frank to fit in where he belongs best, as a game changing defensive wing you bring off the bench. Depending on the matchups and flow of the game, he can close out games too but ideally that would be his best role.

Watch on YouTube

I think you are referencing this game. I mean watch this 4 minute clip and my jaw is on the floor with what he can do defensively.

He goes from shutting down Luka, to then bothering a bunch of KP's shots, to chasing down THjr attempt at the rim, to contested defensive rebounds. There aren't many players in the league near his age that have as much defensive versatility he has.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults, but there are enough defensive highlights in this one game that could make up a month of action for some of the knicks.

Yes! This was it. Man those games against the Mavs were our championship games this season. I don't think I've ever been more impressed with Frank than those games. If he played like that consistently we would be in much better shape as a team but unfortunately he just couldn't sustain that level of focus and aggressiveness.

all thats true, I do think that our ever changing lineups and roster and coaching staff do stunt the growth of young players. A lot of these teams that play great team defense have been playing with each other for years.

I think consistency has a lot to do with his youth (our teams youth in general)and our overall talent. Like you said before if Frank focused on defense, knocking down shots, and some playmaking when needed...and we had the offensive fire power coming from other positions that weren't reliant of frank to be the main playmaker...then he would be fine and our expectations would be realistic.

I think the factor that we drafted him at 8 and we really haven't had a lot of talent on the roster has forced certain expectations that he just isn't the type of player that will overcome those. He is much more of a "glue" type player then a CORE engine type player.

[mpharris36]

Watch on YouTube

I think you are referencing this game. I mean watch this 4 minute clip and my jaw is on the floor with what he can do defensively.

He goes from shutting down Luka, to then bothering a bunch of KP's shots, to chasing down THjr attempt at the rim, to contested defensive rebounds. There aren't many players in the league near his age that have as much defensive versatility he has.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults, but there are enough defensive highlights in this one game that could make up a month of action for some of the knicks.

Yes! This was it. Man those games against the Mavs were our championship games this season. I don't think I've ever been more impressed with Frank than those games. If he played like that consistently we would be in much better shape as a team but unfortunately he just couldn't sustain that level of focus and aggressiveness.

Yeah, I only went to a couple games this season but the one against the Mavs was one of them and it was basically our championship. I somehow always seem to get lucky with picking out that one or two particular good games we have every year

well then someone needs to get you season tickets!

[Zenzibar]

Frank has shown flashes of elite defense but he just lacks consistency. There were times where he was so disruptive defensively and I can't remember what game in particular, might have been against the Mavs, but man was he showing some unique defensive versatility. But between those games there were a lot of games where he just was invisible and didn't do much or he would pick up quick fouls and take himself out the game with foul trouble. Those are issues that can be fixed over time as he gets more experienced and comfortable being a pro in the NBA and learning.

I think we just shouldn't overwhelm him with additional responsibility like I see some folks asking for. They want him to be somebody offensively that he isn't and those expectations lead to disappointment. We should look to get better offensive guards and then just allow Frank to fit in where he belongs best, as a game changing defensive wing you bring off the bench. Depending on the matchups and flow of the game, he can close out games too but ideally that would be his best role.

Watch on YouTube

I think you are referencing this game. I mean watch this 4 minute clip and my jaw is on the floor with what he can do defensively.

He goes from shutting down Luka, to then bothering a bunch of KP's shots, to chasing down THjr attempt at the rim, to contested defensive rebounds. There aren't many players in the league near his age that have as much defensive versatility he has.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults, but there are enough defensive highlights in this one game that could make up a month of action for some of the knicks.

Bingo! Exactly my point. I think some guys here are jaded into thinking or wishing Frank could be Klay. But I'd be happy with Frank being a swiss army knife ala Draymond but at the 2-3.

[mpharris36]

Defensive players are not valued in todays NBA. Especially perimeters defenders, You cant compare the salaries of Smart, Iguodala, Danny Green, Avery Bradley, Cory Joseph, Patrick Bervely with offense wings that makes the Max or near max salaries. You can get a lockdown perimeter defender at anytime on their price range (using MLE, small trades, low draft picks).

And we are assuming Frank will be a lockdown defender, what you dont have sure that will be. His mentality is a concern to me. He looks to be too sensitive and starts to play poorly after mistakes, what would explain his lack of consistency.

Its far more difficult to get offensive players. They rarely are on the market and cost money. We have to save cap space to difference makers. Perimeter defense specialist is the last player you get to build a team considering the importance of salary cap management.

Frank"s contract will end next season. If we can get a great value on an extension, we have to try to trade him.

I disagree completely. Why do you think the guys you mentioned above are usually on winning teams. Because defense still wins in the NBA.

I think its easier to find 1-way score first players in the NBA. They are littered everywhere. Every draft there is some scoring guards that come out that have major flaws on why they can't stay on the court.

No doubt it is a scoring league. But one way to combat that scoring is to play good defense. Especially in the playoffs...its a totally different animal defense is even more important in the playoffs because the game turns into more a half court style then a run and gun in the regular season. Officials swallow there whistle more and teams that can lock down usually have a lot of success.

Now we aren't talking defense is more important then star players. Star players are still the hardest thing to find. What I am talking about is that JR Smith/THjr type guards that kinda can make shots and shoot. Those guys are all around the league. Having a defensive stopper that also can make shots (like the guys you mentioned above) are very unique in the league and those teams above usually have a lot of success.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Interesting to see some combined rankings. Although if we pick at 8ish and Ball/Hayes/Haliburton are all of the board it is a tough decision. I might choose from Vassell/Cole/Maxey/Kira.

Read on Twitter

[mpharris36]

Interesting to see some combined rankings. Although if we pick at 8ish and Ball/Hayes/Haliburton are all of the board it is a tough decision. I might choose from Vassell/Cole/Maxey/Kira.

Read on Twitter

the good thing is that the big board doesn't account for team needs. There will be teams needing bigs more then us.

the combination of the list is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me.

[thebuzzardman]

Defensive players are not valued in todays NBA. Especially perimeters defenders, You cant compare the salaries of Smart, Iguodala, Danny Green, Avery Bradley, Cory Joseph, Patrick Bervely with offense wings that makes the Max or near max salaries. You can get a lockdown perimeter defender at anytime on their price range (using MLE, small trades, low draft picks).

And we are assuming Frank will be a lockdown defender, what you dont have sure that will be. His mentality is a concern to me. He looks to be too sensitive and starts to play poorly after mistakes, what would explain his lack of consistency.

Its far more difficult to get offensive players. They rarely are on the market and cost money. We have to save cap space to difference makers. Perimeter defense specialist is the last player you get to build a team considering the importance of salary cap management.

Frank"s contract will end next season. If we can get a great value on an extension, we have to try to trade him.

I don't think that statement is true.