2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[3toheadmelo]

Yep there’s no evidence that suggests Frank is a elite defender. He’s basically a poor mans Kris Dunn, which is ok. Once he gets to Dunn’s level of defense then we’ll all be satisfied.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Interesting to see some combined rankings. Although if we pick at 8ish and Ball/Hayes/Haliburton are all of the board it is a tough decision. I might choose from Vassell/Cole/Maxey/Kira.

Read on Twitter

the good thing is that the big board doesn't account for team needs. There will be teams needing bigs more then us.

the combination of the list is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.

Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

[robillionaire]

One issue with frank that I don’t see addressed too often is that he has problems staying in games due to foul trouble. If you are not smart enough or disciplined enough to stay in the game can you really call yourself an elite defensive player? You have to be able to understand when the refs are calling games right and when they are letting things go or when you need to just let it go instead of picking up a crucial foul and I’m not sure he’s fully grasped that concept yet.

This season was shortened and next season looks like it will be a shortened season as well so we probably won’t even get to give him another chance. I hope we can extend him on the cheap because I still think he’s got some valuable tools

[Richard4444]

Defensive players are not valued in todays NBA. Especially perimeters defenders, You cant compare the salaries of Smart, Iguodala, Danny Green, Avery Bradley, Cory Joseph, Patrick Bervely with offense wings that makes the Max or near max salaries. You can get a lockdown perimeter defender at anytime on their price range (using MLE, small trades, low draft picks).

And we are assuming Frank will be a lockdown defender, what you dont have sure that will be. His mentality is a concern to me. He looks to be too sensitive and starts to play poorly after mistakes, what would explain his lack of consistency.

Its far more difficult to get offensive players. They rarely are on the market and cost money. We have to save cap space to difference makers. Perimeter defense specialist is the last player you get to build a team considering the importance of salary cap management.

Frank"s contract will end next season. If we can get a great value on an extension, we have to try to trade him.

I disagree completely. Why do you think the guys you mentioned above are usually on winning teams. Because defense still wins in the NBA.

I think its easier to find 1-way score first players in the NBA. They are littered everywhere. Every draft there is some scoring guards that come out that have major flaws on why they can't stay on the court.

No doubt it is a scoring league. But one way to combat that scoring is to play good defense. Especially in the playoffs...its a totally different animal defense is even more important in the playoffs because the game turns into more a half court style then a run and gun in the regular season. Officials swallow there whistle more and teams that can lock down usually have a lot of success.

Now we aren't talking defense is more important then star players. Star players are still the hardest thing to find. What I am talking about is that JR Smith/THjr type guards that kinda can make shots and shoot. Those guys are all around the league. Having a defensive stopper that also can make shots (like the guys you mentioned above) are very unique in the league and those teams above usually have a lot of success.

I am not talking about that a perimeter defensive specialist is not important to build a contender. You may be right and a perimeter defender specialist can be crucial. But these players could be signed last because they are cheaper.

I am talking about salary player market and cap space management. For whatever reason, offensive players makes more money and are harder to fit into the cap space. If you fill the cap space with defenders, you cant contract offensive players (counting playmakers). And because they are expensive, you cant contract them at the end of team building process by using MLE, low picks or small trades.

Defensive specialist salaries (the majority are good shooters or slashers unlike Frank for now).
56. Kent Bazemore $19,269,663 $0 $0 $0
69. Andre Iguodala $17,185,185 $15,000,000 $15,000,000 $0
315. Dejounte Murray $2,321,735 $14,286,000 $15,428,880 $16,571,120
86. Danny Green $14,634,147 $15,365,853 $0 $0
95. Justise Winslow $13,000,000 $13,000,000 $13,000,000 $0
103. Marcus Smart $12,553,571 $12,946,428 $13,839,285 $0
107. Patrick Beverley $12,345,680 $13,333,333 $14,320,987 $0
108. Trevor Ariza $12,200,000 $12,800,000 $0 $0
110. Cory Joseph $12,000,000 $12,600,000 $12,600,000 $0
184. Dillon Brooks $1,618,520 $11,400,000 $12,200,000 $11,400,00
114. Robert Covington $11,301,219 $12,138,345 $12,975,471 $0
116. Moe Harkless $11,011,234 $0 $0 $0
118. Andre Roberson $10,740,740 $0 $0 $0
123. Josh Richardson $10,116,576 $10,865,952 $11,615,328 $0
146. PJ Tucker $8,349,039 $7,969,537 $0 $0
174. Avery Bradley $6,767,000 $5,005,350 $0 $0
328. Austin Rivers $2,174,310 $2,436,046 $0 $0

Ofensive specialist salaries (excluding superstars known as bad defenders like Harden, Lillard, Towns, Irving and Booker).
11. Kemba Walker $32,742,000 $34,379,100 $36,016,200 $37,653,300
25. DeMar DeRozan $27,739,975 $27,739,975 $0 $0
26. CJ McCollum $27,556,959 $29,354,152 $30,864,198 $33,333,3330
27. Andrew Wiggins $27,504,630 $29,542,010 $31,579,390 $33,616,770
30. D'Angelo Russell $27,285,000 $28,649,250 $30,013,500 $31,377,750
205. Buddy Hield $4,861,207 $26,431,817 $24,477,272 $22,522,728
49. Danilo Gallinari $22,615,559 $0 $0 $0
51. Tim Hardaway Jr $20,025,127 $18,975,000 $0 $0
53. Terry Rozier $19,894,737 $18,900,000 $17,905,263 $0
55. Zach LaVine $19,500,000 $19,500,000 $19,500,000 $0
58. Goran Dragic $19,217,900 $0 $0 $0
66. Allen Crabbe $17,818,456 $0 $0 $0
67. Reggie Jackson $17,799,677 $0 $0 $0
70. Evan Fournier $17,150,000 $17,150,000 $0 $0
71. Bojan Bogdanovic $17,000,000 $17,850,000 $18,700,000 $19,550,000
80. Dennis Schroeder $15,500,000 $15,500,000 $0 $0
83. Bobby Portis $15,000,000 $15,750,000 $0 $0
91. JJ Redick $13,486,300 $13,013,700 $0 $0
92. Jordan Clarkson $13,437,500 $0 $0 $
117. TJ Warren $10,810,000 $11,750,000 $12,690,000 $0
119. Spencer Dinwiddie $10,605,600 $11,454,048 $12,302,496 $0
160. Seth Curry $7,461,380 $7,834,449 $8,207,518 $8,496,653

[robillionaire]

Interesting to see some combined rankings. Although if we pick at 8ish and Ball/Hayes/Haliburton are all of the board it is a tough decision. I might choose from Vassell/Cole/Maxey/Kira.

Read on Twitter

the good thing is that the big board doesn't account for team needs. There will be teams needing bigs more then us.

the combination of the list is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.

Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

My first hope would be to still try to trade up. But failing that I would lean towards Okoro with maybe Cole or Maxey next. But I think the Knicks would obviously select Cole

The good news is that we will at least be getting one of those guys even at 9 or 10 and any of them could potentially turn out to be as good as many of the higher rated prospects

[mpharris36]

One issue with frank that I don’t see addressed too often is that he has problems staying in games due to foul trouble. If you are not smart enough or disciplined enough to stay in the game can you really call yourself an elite defensive player? You have to be able to understand when the refs are calling games right and when they are letting things go or when you need to just let it go instead of picking up a crucial foul and I’m not sure he’s fully grasped that concept yet.

This season was shortened and next season looks like it will be a shortened season as well so we probably won’t even get to give him another chance. I hope we can extend him on the cheap because I still think he’s got some valuable tools

If your not fouling your not playing defense.

He of course needs to cut out the silly fouls. But he is also 21 and hasn't fully gotten the respect in the league from the officials as a top defender. When that comes he will foul less.

[mpharris36]

Interesting to see some combined rankings. Although if we pick at 8ish and Ball/Hayes/Haliburton are all of the board it is a tough decision. I might choose from Vassell/Cole/Maxey/Kira.

Read on Twitter

the good thing is that the big board doesn't account for team needs. There will be teams needing bigs more then us.

the combination of the list is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.

Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

Picking 9 would be nearly impossible with the odds. But I guess as a knick fan you would need to prepare for every situation.

If Okoro is there I think you would just have to pick him as he has 2-way potential and probably the highest ceiling from that group.

[3toheadmelo]

Interesting to see some combined rankings. Although if we pick at 8ish and Ball/Hayes/Haliburton are all of the board it is a tough decision. I might choose from Vassell/Cole/Maxey/Kira.

Read on Twitter

the good thing is that the big board doesn't account for team needs. There will be teams needing bigs more then us.

the combination of the list is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.

Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

I would go with Coleslaw or Kira. Okoro has limited upside to me, Vassell is ok but meh..

[8516knicks]

the good thing is that the big board doesn't account for team needs. There will be teams needing bigs more then us.

the combination of the list is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.
[tweet][/tweet]
Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

My first hope would be to still try to trade up. But failing that I would lean towards Okoro with maybe Cole or Maxey next. But I think the Knicks would obviously select Cole

The good news is that we will at least be getting one of those guys even at 9 or 10 and any of them could potentially turn out to be as good as many of the higher rated prospects

Looking at his composite board, the only name on the first two columns I didn't know was Desmond Bane. So I looked him up - 6'6" from TCU and here are his last 3 years 3% - 461, 425, 442%. 16.6 pts and 6.3 rebounds this year. Should we grab him at #27?

[mpharris36]

the good thing is that the big board doesn't account for team needs. There will be teams needing bigs more then us.

the combination of the list is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.

Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

I would go with Coleslaw or Kira. Okoro has limited upside to me, Vassell is ok but meh..

[mpharris36]

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.
[tweet][/tweet]
Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

My first hope would be to still try to trade up. But failing that I would lean towards Okoro with maybe Cole or Maxey next. But I think the Knicks would obviously select Cole

The good news is that we will at least be getting one of those guys even at 9 or 10 and any of them could potentially turn out to be as good as many of the higher rated prospects

Looking at his composite board, the only name on the first two columns I didn't know was Desmond Bane. So I looked him up - 6'6" from TCU and here are his last 3 years 3% - 461, 425, 442%. 16.6 pts and 6.3 rebounds this year. Should we grab him at #27?

he is an absolute sniper. He is a bit older (will be 22 in a month) and has a limited upside but if you want a shooter outside of maybe Nesmith he is probably the best pure shooter in the draft.

[HEZI]

The Golden State Warriors are believed to prefer Tyrese Haliburton over LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes.
The Warriors see Haliburton as a fit due to his elite passing and his ability on defense to defend multiple positions.
"I’ve been told that he has emerged as the No. 1 point guard on the Warriors’ board — yes, above LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes," writes Connor Letourneau. "If Golden State lands anywhere between No. 2 and No. 5, it will seriously consider Haliburton."
Haliburton could play beside Stephen Curry and also become the primary ball-handler for the second unit.

[Gravy]

Yeah, I dont see the Warriors needing Lamelo Ball with a healthy Steph + Klay.

[3toheadmelo]

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.

Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

I would go with Coleslaw or Kira. Okoro has limited upside to me, Vassell is ok but meh..

Is he a good enough overall scorer to warrant being a top-10 pick? His 16 points per 40 minutes is the lowest scoring rate of any college player currently projected in the top 20.

Perimeter shooting struggles are especially concerning. Made just 29% of his 3s and 67% of his free throw attempts.

[mpharris36]

I would go with Coleslaw or Kira. Okoro has limited upside to me, Vassell is ok but meh..

Is he a good enough overall scorer to warrant being a top-10 pick? His 16 points per 40 minutes is the lowest scoring rate of any college player currently projected in the top 20.

Perimeter shooting struggles are especially concerning. Made just 29% of his 3s and 67% of his free throw attempts.

I thought you were a believer of DX?

Strengths
- Has ideal physical tools for an NBA wing. Was one of the most impactful defenders in the college game and has All-NBA potential thanks to his excellent lateral quickness, high intensity level and sound technique. Was often tasked with shutting down the point of attack for Auburn, but has the size, strength, length and toughness to defend power forwards as well.
- Has plenty of room to grow offensively, but already shows enough flashes as a ball handler and passer to leave plenty of room for optimism. Attacks the rim with purpose and finishes well inside the paint, while also showing potential operating out of pick-and-roll. Has good court vision, can playmake with either hand and generally shows a high basketball IQ.
- Lauded for his approach to the game. Impacts the game without scoring. Excellent rebounder. Plays a position and role that is extremely hard to find in today's NBA.

[mpharris36]

The Golden State Warriors are believed to prefer Tyrese Haliburton over LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes.
The Warriors see Haliburton as a fit due to his elite passing and his ability on defense to defend multiple positions.
"I’ve been told that he has emerged as the No. 1 point guard on the Warriors’ board — yes, above LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes," writes Connor Letourneau. "If Golden State lands anywhere between No. 2 and No. 5, it will seriously consider Haliburton."
Haliburton could play beside Stephen Curry and also become the primary ball-handler for the second unit.

makes sense they don't need a ball dominant guard.

From all accounts they are the highest on Okongwu and Haliburton.

[3toheadmelo]

Is he a good enough overall scorer to warrant being a top-10 pick? His 16 points per 40 minutes is the lowest scoring rate of any college player currently projected in the top 20.

Perimeter shooting struggles are especially concerning. Made just 29% of his 3s and 67% of his free throw attempts.

I thought you were a believer of DX?

Strengths
- Has ideal physical tools for an NBA wing. Was one of the most impactful defenders in the college game and has All-NBA potential thanks to his excellent lateral quickness, high intensity level and sound technique. Was often tasked with shutting down the point of attack for Auburn, but has the size, strength, length and toughness to defend power forwards as well.
- Has plenty of room to grow offensively, but already shows enough flashes as a ball handler and passer to leave plenty of room for optimism. Attacks the rim with purpose and finishes well inside the paint, while also showing potential operating out of pick-and-roll. Has good court vision, can playmake with either hand and generally shows a high basketball IQ.
- Lauded for his approach to the game. Impacts the game without scoring. Excellent rebounder. Plays a position and role that is extremely hard to find in today's NBA.

My post literally came from DX

I’m good on Okoro. Not much upside there. Will prob be Winslow without the play making.

[Deeeez Knicks]

the good thing is that the big board doesn't account for team needs. There will be teams needing bigs more then us.

the combination of the list is actually pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Yea, a lot will depend on the order. Worst case though, I am struggling to think about who to pick if say we are at 9 and those are the first 8 off the board.

Cole gives us potential. Vassell seems like the safest. Maxey gives us an all around scoring G with some potential. Kira, if we are desperate for a PG and not sold on Cole. Okoro seems solid with upside except for the shot which is worrisome.

Picking 9 would be nearly impossible with the odds. But I guess as a knick fan you would need to prepare for every situation.

If Okoro is there I think you would just have to pick him as he has 2-way potential and probably the highest ceiling from that group.

Yea, chances are slim we drop past #8 but you never know.

I feel like I might ok with rolling the dice with Cole in that spot. It's a tough one since I have a lot of those guys in the same tier. One of those where havent made up my mind yet so was interested in what everyone else would do

[mpharris36]

I thought you were a believer of DX?

Strengths
- Has ideal physical tools for an NBA wing. Was one of the most impactful defenders in the college game and has All-NBA potential thanks to his excellent lateral quickness, high intensity level and sound technique. Was often tasked with shutting down the point of attack for Auburn, but has the size, strength, length and toughness to defend power forwards as well.
- Has plenty of room to grow offensively, but already shows enough flashes as a ball handler and passer to leave plenty of room for optimism. Attacks the rim with purpose and finishes well inside the paint, while also showing potential operating out of pick-and-roll. Has good court vision, can playmake with either hand and generally shows a high basketball IQ.
- Lauded for his approach to the game. Impacts the game without scoring. Excellent rebounder. Plays a position and role that is extremely hard to find in today's NBA.

My post literally came from DX

I’m good on Okoro. Not much upside there. Will prob be Winslow without the play making.

yet they have him as there #4 ranked prospect

[Deeeez Knicks]

The Golden State Warriors are believed to prefer Tyrese Haliburton over LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes.
The Warriors see Haliburton as a fit due to his elite passing and his ability on defense to defend multiple positions.
"I’ve been told that he has emerged as the No. 1 point guard on the Warriors’ board — yes, above LaMelo Ball and Killian Hayes," writes Connor Letourneau. "If Golden State lands anywhere between No. 2 and No. 5, it will seriously consider Haliburton."
Haliburton could play beside Stephen Curry and also become the primary ball-handler for the second unit.

That is a perfect spot for him. Would fit in really well there.