Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[Dresden]

pretty sure you're making that up. please provide examples of anybody at all saying that all residents of a particular community are good actors

you're misusing the term 'domestic terrorism', by the way. for effect, i'm sure

Gangs are a whole separate issue, but why (and I'm asking Dominator) do you think gangs exist in poor neighborhoods but not wealthy ones, or even middle class ones? There's a whole complex set of conditions that foster the rise of gangs, and I'm not all that well informed about them, but mostly, from what I do know, they form in communities that are disadvantaged, marginalized, and don't have access to the same opportunities as others. The Italian mob formed that way.

To get rid of gangs (and I again, I'm just talking out my ass, but from what little I do know on the subject), involves improving the overall quality of life in the community. Law enforcement is part of it, but so is better education, better child care, more economic activity, etc. etc. They all go hand in hand, and you can't do one without the others.

I don't how it gets solved, history though has shown us it can thru self improvement. Both the Italians and Irish used to have gangs running rampant in this city. They changed their ways of life and pretty much no longer exist. So it can be done. The next generation of kids has to be better and wiser than the ones that preceded them.

Unrelated sidenote: Kinda funny originally all those immigrant groups were classified separately. Italian, Irish, German, Polish, Jewish, French, etc. and over time they just all got rolled into one as "white"

I think there are particular historical reasons why those groups were able to climb out of poverty, and why other communities have not.

[Dresden]

White House deletes bogus brick video accusing Antifa of planning for riots

Trump, Barr blame radicals for protest violence but provide no proof

"...
Trump tweeted on Sunday that “ANTIFA led anarchists” and “Radical Left Anarchists,” were responsible for the unrest, without offering any evidence.

That was followed by a statement from Barr: ”The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.”

So far the Justice Department has yet to provide any evidence of Barr’s claims.

According to The Nation, an FBI situation report states that “based on CHS [Confidential Human Source] canvassing, open source/social media partner engagement, and liaison, FBI WFO (Washington Field Office) has no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence.”
However, the FBI did warn that members of a far-right social media group "called for far-right provocateurs to attack federal agents" and "use automatic weapons against protesters."...

A Carnegie Mellon University study of tweets referencing the protests show that essentially no humans have been using the antifa hashtag, according to Cnet. Kathleen Carley, a computer science professor at Carnegie Mellon, said data from May 25 through Sunday showed that it's largely bots using the hashtag. She estimated that 30% to 49% of users posting about the protests likely are machines, not humans.

San Francisco-based Zignal Labs, a media intelligence software service, tracked certain categories of falsehoods relating to the protests. Of 873,000 pieces of misinformation linked to the protests, 575,800 were mentions of Antifa, Zignal Labs said...."


It makes you wonder who is programming these bots to put out all this false information linking Antifa to the riots.

[Dominator83]

Gangs are a whole separate issue, but why (and I'm asking Dominator) do you think gangs exist in poor neighborhoods but not wealthy ones, or even middle class ones? There's a whole complex set of conditions that foster the rise of gangs, and I'm not all that well informed about them, but mostly, from what I do know, they form in communities that are disadvantaged, marginalized, and don't have access to the same opportunities as others. The Italian mob formed that way.

To get rid of gangs (and I again, I'm just talking out my ass, but from what little I do know on the subject), involves improving the overall quality of life in the community. Law enforcement is part of it, but so is better education, better child care, more economic activity, etc. etc. They all go hand in hand, and you can't do one without the others.

I don't how it gets solved, history though has shown us it can thru self improvement. Both the Italians and Irish used to have gangs running rampant in this city. They changed their ways of life and pretty much no longer exist. So it can be done. The next generation of kids has to be better and wiser than the ones that preceded them.

Unrelated sidenote: Kinda funny originally all those immigrant groups were classified separately. Italian, Irish, German, Polish, Jewish, French, etc. and over time they just all got rolled into one as "white"

I think there are particular historical reasons why those groups were able to climb out of poverty, and why other communities have not.

True, but a big part of it is work ethic and drive.

I used to, let's just say date, a black lady that went to High School on the west side in the late 80's. She said that in her school, if you did well and got good grades you would get beat up for "trying to be white". Now, what kind of line of thinking is that? For one, they should have been thriving to be BETTER than their white counterparts, not deliberately worse and wear it as a badge of honor.

Now that was between 30 and 35 years ago. Now I'm going to assume that that brutal mindset has long evaporated, which that in itself shows that the new generations are progressing and are wiser.

And BTW: equating getting good grades to "being white" is a very misguided stereotype. There are lots and lots of white students that are mediocre or bad. The number of white students that are mediocre/Bad far out number the honor students. Asians blow whites away in the classroom. So maybe it should've been referred to as "trying to be Asian" instead.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Dominater.

Have you read anything about the institutional barriers that have stripped wealth and opportunity out of Black communities. Jim Crow, redlining, housing covenants, small business loan and job discrimination.

Any of it?

[dice]

White House deletes bogus brick video accusing Antifa of planning for riots

Trump, Barr blame radicals for protest violence but provide no proof

"...
Trump tweeted on Sunday that “ANTIFA led anarchists” and “Radical Left Anarchists,” were responsible for the unrest, without offering any evidence.

That was followed by a statement from Barr: ”The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.”

So far the Justice Department has yet to provide any evidence of Barr’s claims.

According to The Nation, an FBI situation report states that “based on CHS [Confidential Human Source] canvassing, open source/social media partner engagement, and liaison, FBI WFO (Washington Field Office) has no intelligence indicating Antifa involvement/presence.”
However, the FBI did warn that members of a far-right social media group "called for far-right provocateurs to attack federal agents" and "use automatic weapons against protesters."...

A Carnegie Mellon University study of tweets referencing the protests show that essentially no humans have been using the antifa hashtag, according to Cnet. Kathleen Carley, a computer science professor at Carnegie Mellon, said data from May 25 through Sunday showed that it's largely bots using the hashtag. She estimated that 30% to 49% of users posting about the protests likely are machines, not humans.

San Francisco-based Zignal Labs, a media intelligence software service, tracked certain categories of falsehoods relating to the protests. Of 873,000 pieces of misinformation linked to the protests, 575,800 were mentions of Antifa, Zignal Labs said...."


It makes you wonder who is programming these bots to put out all this false information linking Antifa to the riots.

lots of right wing groups, i'm sure. and russia

[Dominator83]

Dominater.

Have you read anything about the institutional barriers that have stripped wealth and opportunity out of Black communities. Jim Crow, redlining, housing covenants, small business loan and job discrimination.

Any of it?

All those things suck no doubt about it. If I was running the world none of that stuff wouldve been a thing. Things have been gradually getting more fair. Still have a ways to go, but better. At least we see proof that black kids can grow up to be doctors, Lawyers, engineers, even president of the United States. Hopefully that inspires more kids knowing there's avenues to good things. A good environment with good people surrounding them and they have just as much potential than anyone.

[musiqsoulchild]

Dominater.

Have you read anything about the institutional barriers that have stripped wealth and opportunity out of Black communities. Jim Crow, redlining, housing covenants, small business loan and job discrimination.

Any of it?

All those things suck no doubt about it. If I was running the world none of that stuff wouldve been a thing. Things have been gradually getting more fair. Still have a ways to go, but better. At least we see proof that black kids can grow up to be doctors, Lawyers, engineers, even president of the United States. Hopefully that inspires more kids knowing there's avenues to good things. A good environment with good people surrounding them and they have just as much potential than anyone.

I got lucky man. I had a very superficial understanding of racial inequality when I came to the US.

But that changed when I started working as a graduate assistant in the Ronald E. McNair Scholars Program.

The program aims to federally fund a cohort of students every year and see them all the way through PhD degrees.

Guess the racial makeup of the 12 scholars we had:
1) 3 Hispanic
2) 4 Black
3) 2 Asian
4) 3 White

The only qualifications were that they had to :

1) Be the first college goer in their family
2) Be economically disadvantaged
3) Maintain a high GPA ( 3.5)

The point being - even in those kinds of programs, it was clear that race was not as much of a factor as socio-economic conditions.

That was the BIGGEST barrier to getting ahead in America.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Dominater.

Have you read anything about the institutional barriers that have stripped wealth and opportunity out of Black communities. Jim Crow, redlining, housing covenants, small business loan and job discrimination.

Any of it?

All those things suck no doubt about it. If I was running the world none of that stuff wouldve been a thing. Things have been gradually getting more fair. Still have a ways to go, but better. At least we see proof that black kids can grow up to be doctors, Lawyers, engineers, even president of the United States. Hopefully that inspires more kids knowing there's avenues to good things. A good environment with good people surrounding them and they have just as much potential than anyone.

There’s a massive wealth gap between white and black households even when you control for education. It’s driven by inheritances, like home ownership, which have been stripped out of black communities by the factors I named above. It’s why the arguments about “home environment” and parenting are a complete red herring and should be avoided by anyone who means to discuss these trends seriously.

[Dominator83]

Dominater.

Have you read anything about the institutional barriers that have stripped wealth and opportunity out of Black communities. Jim Crow, redlining, housing covenants, small business loan and job discrimination.

Any of it?

All those things suck no doubt about it. If I was running the world none of that stuff wouldve been a thing. Things have been gradually getting more fair. Still have a ways to go, but better. At least we see proof that black kids can grow up to be doctors, Lawyers, engineers, even president of the United States. Hopefully that inspires more kids knowing there's avenues to good things. A good environment with good people surrounding them and they have just as much potential than anyone.

There’s a massive wealth gap between white and black households even when you control for education. It’s driven by inheritances, like home ownership, which have been stripped out of black communities by the factors I named above. It’s why the arguments about “home environment” and parenting are a complete red herring and should be avoided by anyone who means to discuss these trends seriously.

Money helps and wealth helps I get that. But you don't have to have money to be good parents and a positive influence. Kids with those are less likely to fall into a life of crime. But of course of you got money that helps too. I don't know how anyone can dismiss influences and surroundings. That a very important aspect. Money doesn't always make people go from bad to good.

For the record , no I do not come from money and as an adult I work about 60 hours a week between 2 places to make ends meet. Take education seriously kids.

[dice]

apparently 2 of the 3 officers being charged along w/ chauvin were in their first week on the job and had been trained by chauvin. can you imagine signing up to be a cop, going through the training, starting work during a pandemic and quickly being charged with felonies w/ the possibility of decades in prison for this? and one of them twice asked chauvin if they should roll george lloyd over. it would be a travesty if any of them are convicted, particularly the 2 newbies

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

All those things suck no doubt about it. If I was running the world none of that stuff wouldve been a thing. Things have been gradually getting more fair. Still have a ways to go, but better. At least we see proof that black kids can grow up to be doctors, Lawyers, engineers, even president of the United States. Hopefully that inspires more kids knowing there's avenues to good things. A good environment with good people surrounding them and they have just as much potential than anyone.

There’s a massive wealth gap between white and black households even when you control for education. It’s driven by inheritances, like home ownership, which have been stripped out of black communities by the factors I named above. It’s why the arguments about “home environment” and parenting are a complete red herring and should be avoided by anyone who means to discuss these trends seriously.

Money helps and wealth helps I get that. But you don't have to have money to be good parents and a positive influence. Kids with those are less likely to fall into a life of crime. But of course of you got money that helps too. I don't know how anyone can dismiss influences and surroundings. That a very important aspect. Money doesn't always make people go from bad to good.

For the record , no I do not come from money and as an adult I work about 60 hours a week between 2 places to make ends meet. Take education seriously kids.

Here’s where the logic falls down.

You’re saying parenting matters a lot (it does) and Black kids are more likely to enter the criminal justice system (they are) so Black parents must be failing Black kids (wrong).

You can be a good parent and still lose a handle on your kids if they have substandard housing and not enough food and are (demonstrably) criminalized more than white kids.

Yes, many kids do fine anyway, but those barriers lead to worse outcomes on the whole, obviously.

It’s like giving a guy a basketball that’s a pound too heavy, and then when he shoots a bad percentage you say, “well, it all starts on the practice court.”

[bullsnewdynasty]

Stop blaming violence on poverty and admit there's a serious culture problem in black communities in Chicago.

If we're going to talk about societal issues then let's put it all on the table and not be afraid of talking about it.

Regarding Englewood, Garfield Park, Austin, etc.

Do some research on HOW those neighborhoods got to be the way they are now. The segregation in Chicago was no mistake. It was fully intentional and well coordinated, between the city, realtors, and banks/lenders.

It's disingenuous to blame the current state of those neighborhoods for the city's segregation. The implied effect is actually the cause, and vice versa.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/04/11/473414348/talking-housing-segregation-and-chicago-with-wbez-s-natalie-moore

Sure, let's talk about it.

Culture problem in the black communities?

How about culture problems in the white communities? Let's start with the source of the demand for the drugs that are seemingly the cause of the "black community"?

Let's talk about the lack of any real above-board job and economic opportunities in black neighborhoods.

Let's talk about economic decay. Let's talk about the redlining and white flight that spurred such economic decay.

Let's talk about property values STILL being negatively impacted by the presence of black folks in a neighborhood.

Let's talk about how much harder it is for black folks to get a home loan or be accepted for a lease in traditionally non-black areas that makes it that much harder for them to get out of their neighborhood/situation.

Let's talk about the lack of access quality healthcare in black communities, and the cost of healthcare.

Let's talk about the proportion of white kids to black kids in the prominent magnet schools of Chicago in comparison to the overall population spread. Then let's also talk about how hard it is for those kids to get to and from said magnet schools if they actually get in. Let's then dig even further into the lack of strong elementary schools and after school programs in those neighborhoods.

I want to talk about the root causes of the cultural issues you are referencing in the black community, and I want us to acknowledge that there are a LOT of factors that are not within their control.

Street gangs used to provide above board after school care and education to kids. Seriously, they did.

Your entire post passes off responsibility for poor choices onto others.

There won't be any progress until people acknowledge the problems with a lack of family structure, lack of focus on education, and glorification of the street life, among many other issues.

Do black people in the inner city have it hard? Yeah. But let's stop pretending that everybody is a victim. Nobody in life owes you anything. There are many successful people who came from nothing because they had the fire and the determination to overcome their situation.

I see a lot of posts abut home ownership and lending. You are not going to qualify for a loan if your income is not high enough no matter what race you are. The reason our economy crashed last time was because the government tried to promote home ownership for people who could never afford it. Those people subsequently foreclosed.

[Dresden]

Sure, let's talk about it.

Culture problem in the black communities?

How about culture problems in the white communities? Let's start with the source of the demand for the drugs that are seemingly the cause of the "black community"?

Let's talk about the lack of any real above-board job and economic opportunities in black neighborhoods.

Let's talk about economic decay. Let's talk about the redlining and white flight that spurred such economic decay.

Let's talk about property values STILL being negatively impacted by the presence of black folks in a neighborhood.

Let's talk about how much harder it is for black folks to get a home loan or be accepted for a lease in traditionally non-black areas that makes it that much harder for them to get out of their neighborhood/situation.

Let's talk about the lack of access quality healthcare in black communities, and the cost of healthcare.

Let's talk about the proportion of white kids to black kids in the prominent magnet schools of Chicago in comparison to the overall population spread. Then let's also talk about how hard it is for those kids to get to and from said magnet schools if they actually get in. Let's then dig even further into the lack of strong elementary schools and after school programs in those neighborhoods.

I want to talk about the root causes of the cultural issues you are referencing in the black community, and I want us to acknowledge that there are a LOT of factors that are not within their control.

Street gangs used to provide above board after school care and education to kids. Seriously, they did.

Your entire post passes off responsibility for poor choices onto others.

There won't be any progress until people acknowledge the problems with a lack of family structure, lack of focus on education, and glorification of the street life, among many other issues.

Do black people in the inner city have it hard? Yeah. But let's stop pretending that everybody is a victim. Nobody in life owes you anything. There are many successful people who came from nothing because they had the fire and the determination to overcome their situation.

I see a lot of posts abut home ownership and lending. You are not going to qualify for a loan if your income is not high enough no matter what race you are. The reason our economy crashed last time was because the government tried to promote home ownership for people who could never afford it. Those people subsequently foreclosed.

Sure, some people can overcome tremendous odds and be successful. But a lot can't. See the post above about the heavy basketball. It's a lot harder to get ahead if you start the race with a 30 pound weight tied to your back.

[MrSparkle]

apparently 2 of the 3 officers being charged along w/ chauvin were in their first week on the job and had been trained by chauvin. can you imagine signing up to be a cop, going through the training, starting work during a pandemic and quickly being charged with felonies w/ the possibility of decades in prison for this? and one of them twice asked chauvin if they should roll george lloyd over. it would be a travesty if any of them are convicted, particularly the 2 newbies

If this is not a deep spin by the attorneys, then what a disaster. From what I'm reading, Lane and Kueng sound like good-hearted rookies with zero racial and violent history, who didn't know what to do in the worst 5 minutes of their life while following a senior officer's commands. And of course the right thing would've been to reprimand Chauvin and pull him off, but that's a hard decision in a 3-minute window, to your senior officer.

My initial reaction was why don't any of these people filming do something? I realize Thao was guarding them , but if I was observing someone was crying for their mama and in that state of looking like they're checking out, I would probably freak out to level 10, start yelling at the cops to release the guy and possibly move on them and risk getting a baton to the stomach. But that's hypothetical. 5-minutes goes by pretty quick. If there's a paramedic on the way, senior officer is leading.

Disaster.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Culture problem in the black communities?

How about culture problems in the white communities? Let's start with the source of the demand for the drugs that are seemingly the cause of the "black community"?

Let's talk about the lack of any real above-board job and economic opportunities in black neighborhoods.

Let's talk about economic decay. Let's talk about the redlining and white flight that spurred such economic decay.

Let's talk about property values STILL being negatively impacted by the presence of black folks in a neighborhood.

Let's talk about how much harder it is for black folks to get a home loan or be accepted for a lease in traditionally non-black areas that makes it that much harder for them to get out of their neighborhood/situation.

Let's talk about the lack of access quality healthcare in black communities, and the cost of healthcare.

Let's talk about the proportion of white kids to black kids in the prominent magnet schools of Chicago in comparison to the overall population spread. Then let's also talk about how hard it is for those kids to get to and from said magnet schools if they actually get in. Let's then dig even further into the lack of strong elementary schools and after school programs in those neighborhoods.

I want to talk about the root causes of the cultural issues you are referencing in the black community, and I want us to acknowledge that there are a LOT of factors that are not within their control.

Street gangs used to provide above board after school care and education to kids. Seriously, they did.

Your entire post passes off responsibility for poor choices onto others.

There won't be any progress until people acknowledge the problems with a lack of family structure, lack of focus on education, and glorification of the street life, among many other issues.

Do black people in the inner city have it hard? Yeah. But let's stop pretending that everybody is a victim. Nobody in life owes you anything. There are many successful people who came from nothing because they had the fire and the determination to overcome their situation.

I see a lot of posts abut home ownership and lending. You are not going to qualify for a loan if your income is not high enough no matter what race you are. The reason our economy crashed last time was because the government tried to promote home ownership for people who could never afford it. Those people subsequently foreclosed.

Sure, some people can overcome tremendous odds and be successful. But a lot can't. See the post above about the heavy basketball. It's a lot harder to get ahead if you start the race with a 30 pound weight tied to your back.

There are many educational scholarships and grants available for minorities, not to mention diversity programs at most of the bigger companies and preferential treatment in college admissions.

Or if that is not the right path, skilled trades can often pay much more than an associate's or even bachelors. Or other careers that don't require a degree like truck driver, real estate agent, web developer.

We need people who can start pushing youth onto the right path instead of the wrong path. But you can't make anybody work who doesn't want to.

[dice]

apparently 2 of the 3 officers being charged along w/ chauvin were in their first week on the job and had been trained by chauvin. can you imagine signing up to be a cop, going through the training, starting work during a pandemic and quickly being charged with felonies w/ the possibility of decades in prison for this? and one of them twice asked chauvin if they should roll george lloyd over. it would be a travesty if any of them are convicted, particularly the 2 newbies

If this is not a deep spin by the attorneys, then what a disaster. From what I'm reading, Lane and Kueng sound like good-hearted rookies with zero racial and violent history, who didn't know what to do in the worst 5 minutes of their life while following a senior officer's commands. And of course the right thing would've been to reprimand Chauvin and pull him off, but that's a hard decision in a 3-minute window, to your senior officer.

My initial reaction was why don't any of these people filming do something? I realize Thao was guarding them , but if I was observing someone was crying for their mama and in that state of looking like they're checking out, I would probably freak out to level 10, start yelling at the cops to release the guy and possibly move on them and risk getting a baton to the stomach. But that's hypothetical. 5-minutes goes by pretty quick. If there's a paramedic on the way, senior officer is leading.

Disaster.

i hope that prominent black voices speak up on this. all i've seen so far is advocating for charges against them being filed, which has happened. even that is hard to justify in my opinion

[dice]

Sure, let's talk about it.

Culture problem in the black communities?

How about culture problems in the white communities? Let's start with the source of the demand for the drugs that are seemingly the cause of the "black community"?

Let's talk about the lack of any real above-board job and economic opportunities in black neighborhoods.

Let's talk about economic decay. Let's talk about the redlining and white flight that spurred such economic decay.

Let's talk about property values STILL being negatively impacted by the presence of black folks in a neighborhood.

Let's talk about how much harder it is for black folks to get a home loan or be accepted for a lease in traditionally non-black areas that makes it that much harder for them to get out of their neighborhood/situation.

Let's talk about the lack of access quality healthcare in black communities, and the cost of healthcare.

Let's talk about the proportion of white kids to black kids in the prominent magnet schools of Chicago in comparison to the overall population spread. Then let's also talk about how hard it is for those kids to get to and from said magnet schools if they actually get in. Let's then dig even further into the lack of strong elementary schools and after school programs in those neighborhoods.

I want to talk about the root causes of the cultural issues you are referencing in the black community, and I want us to acknowledge that there are a LOT of factors that are not within their control.

Street gangs used to provide above board after school care and education to kids. Seriously, they did.

Your entire post passes off responsibility for poor choices onto others.

and every single one of his points is legit. your response ignores that

There won't be any progress until people acknowledge the problems with a lack of family structure, lack of focus on education, and glorification of the street life, among many other issues.

all of these things would be acknowledged as problems by most people in the black community

Do black people in the inner city have it hard? Yeah. But let's stop pretending that everybody is a victim. Nobody in life owes you anything. There are many successful people who came from nothing because they had the fire and the determination to overcome their situation.

that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce systemic disadvantages

I see a lot of posts abut home ownership and lending. You are not going to qualify for a loan if your income is not high enough no matter what race you are.

i don't know to what degree it exists today, but there has been substantial discrimination against blacks with home loans in the past. economists have found that this was still having an effect on black credit scores in 2010

The reason our economy crashed last time was because the government tried to promote home ownership for people who could never afford it. Those people subsequently foreclosed.

the only way you could believe that that's the only reason why the economy crashed is if you live in a right wing news bubble. first of all, the drop in housing prices, which was not the fault of the homeowners, made it better financial strategy for many to default and take the credit rating hit than continue to make the mortgage payments. secondly, a big reason that the economy crashed was lack of regulation in the derivatives market (see book or movie 'the big short'). additionally, greedy banks loaded up on risky lending

[Dresden]

There are many educational scholarships and grants available for minorities, not to mention diversity programs at most of the bigger companies and preferential treatment in college admissions.

Or if that is not the right path, skilled trades can often pay much more than an associate's or even bachelors. Or other careers that don't require a degree like truck driver, real estate agent, web developer.

We need people who can start pushing youth onto the right path instead of the wrong path. But you can't make anybody work who doesn't want to.

I think it's a much more complex issue than simply "not wanting to work".

[Dresden]

San Francisco is following LA's example:

"San Francisco Mayor London Breed announced on Twitter on Thursday evening that she will look to redirect funds from the Police Department to the African American community in the next budget.

"Decades of disinvestment and racially disparate policies have disproportionately hurt our African-American community in SF," Breed wrote on Twitter in announcing the joint effort with Supervisor Shamann Walton. "This week has highlighted the devastating impacts of police violence against African-Americans in this country."

[Dominator83]

There’s a massive wealth gap between white and black households even when you control for education. It’s driven by inheritances, like home ownership, which have been stripped out of black communities by the factors I named above. It’s why the arguments about “home environment” and parenting are a complete red herring and should be avoided by anyone who means to discuss these trends seriously.

Money helps and wealth helps I get that. But you don't have to have money to be good parents and a positive influence. Kids with those are less likely to fall into a life of crime. But of course of you got money that helps too. I don't know how anyone can dismiss influences and surroundings. That a very important aspect. Money doesn't always make people go from bad to good.

For the record , no I do not come from money and as an adult I work about 60 hours a week between 2 places to make ends meet. Take education seriously kids.

Here’s where the logic falls down.

You’re saying parenting matters a lot (it does) and Black kids are more likely to enter the criminal justice system (they are) so Black parents must be failing Black kids (wrong).

You can be a good parent and still lose a handle on your kids if they have substandard housing and not enough food and are (demonstrably) criminalized more than white kids.

Yes, many kids do fine anyway, but those barriers lead to worse outcomes on the whole, obviously.

It’s like giving a guy a basketball that’s a pound too heavy, and then when he shoots a bad percentage you say, “well, it all starts on the practice court.”

Now I can better understand what your saying