2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

HEZI · Post #801 » by **HEZI** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 3:53 pm

god shammgod · Post #802 » by **god shammgod** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:00 pm

cole > 2nd frank

Post #803 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:21 pm

RHODEY wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Find a way to get LaMelo or take Hayes/Haliburton. Still seems like the best option. I still can't talk myself into taking Cole.

Agreed...

if i were picking 10th and lamelo, killian, and haliburton are all gone... then i consider myself lucky cole fell into my lap, to an extent. but i can't see myself taking him over them.

Post #804 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:22 pm

god shammgod wrote:cole > 2nd frank

which one is 2nd frank? i've heard both hayes and haliburton compared to him in our context.

god shammgod · Post #805 » by **god shammgod** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:27 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
god shammgod wrote:cole > 2nd frank

which one is 2nd frank? i've heard both hayes and haliburton compared to him in our context.

haliburton

people say hayes because he's french but hayes can create for himself.

Post #806 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:31 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
god shammgod wrote:cole > 2nd frank

which one is 2nd frank? i've heard both hayes and haliburton compared to him in our context.

haliburton

haha. i figured.

i see it. haliburton has a longer history of being a knockdown shooter at the amateur level. frank had a very brief period in his amateur career where he shot like 50% from three and mostly on spot-ups.

i think haliburton's offensive game is a little underrated and more advanced than frank's. he looks like a low ceiling, high floor guy. but i love his approach to the game... as i love the dream of what frank could be.

god shammgod · Post #807 » by **god shammgod** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:33 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
which one is 2nd frank? i've heard both hayes and haliburton compared to him in our context.

haliburton

haha. i figured.

i see it. haliburton has a longer history of being a knockdown shooter at the amateur level. frank had a very brief period in his amateur career where he shot like 50% from three and mostly on spot-ups.

i think haliburton's offensive game is a little underrated and more advanced than frank's. he looks like a low ceiling, high floor guy. but i love his approach to the game... as i love the dream of what frank could be.

as i've called him before, he's a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. he'll be another guy we take and then a week later say we need a point guard.

HEZI · Post #808 » by **HEZI** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:37 pm

BricKillian Hayes won't beat Frank for starting PG role next season, can guarantee that. Explain to me how he's an upgrade? "He needs more time to develop" is just a term for he's just not that good right now

Post #809 » by **mpharris36** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:43 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Find a way to get LaMelo or take Hayes/Haliburton. Still seems like the best option. I still can't talk myself into taking Cole.

Yeah I keep trying to think of a scenario where I think Cole Anthony would work here and I just don't see it.

His suspect playmaking ability for a guy with his high of usage and his injury concerns just seem like a poor fit with our history.

Post #810 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:56 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
haliburton

haha. i figured.

i see it. haliburton has a longer history of being a knockdown shooter at the amateur level. frank had a very brief period in his amateur career where he shot like 50% from three and mostly on spot-ups.

i think haliburton's offensive game is a little underrated and more advanced than frank's. he looks like a low ceiling, high floor guy. but i love his approach to the game... as i love the dream of what frank could be.

as i've called him before, he's a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. he'll be another guy we take and then a week later say we need a point guard.

If Frank is Haliburton, what if Cole is DSJ? That might not be any better.

Neither DSJ or Frank is good and we can't really depend on them. I wouldnt factor them or anyone on the roster into the decision. We have to go with who we think is the best guy for us. It might be Haliburton. I don't think he's a star or primary high usage PG either, but if he can be a solid starter i would take that. I would love a star or high upside, but depending on where we are picking it might not be likely. We just need a good player.

Post #811 » by **mpharris36** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:56 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
haliburton

haha. i figured.

i see it. haliburton has a longer history of being a knockdown shooter at the amateur level. frank had a very brief period in his amateur career where he shot like 50% from three and mostly on spot-ups.

i think haliburton's offensive game is a little underrated and more advanced than frank's. he looks like a low ceiling, high floor guy. but i love his approach to the game... as i love the dream of what frank could be.

as i've called him before, he's a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. he'll be another guy we take and then a week later say we need a point guard.

I do think its difficult to kill Halliburton for not being a good enough creator/playmaker when his assist% and assist per usage both double that of Cole Anthony.

I do agree that I struggle to see Haliburton as a main playmaker in an offense but he won't hurt you on the court even if he's not. There is a good chance that even though Cole Anthony has the ability to be a main ball handler it will ultimately be a determent because his production/lack of true playmaking doesn't warrant his usage.

We should be trying to acquire good players that is it. Not just trying to force feed a specific type of player.

Post #812 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:07 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Find a way to get LaMelo or take Hayes/Haliburton. Still seems like the best option. I still can't talk myself into taking Cole.

Yeah I keep trying to think of a scenario where I think Cole Anthony would work here and I just don't see it.

His suspect playmaking ability for a guy with his high of usage and his injury concerns just seem like a poor fit with our history.

Yea, his passing/playmaking was suspect. Another concern is that he didnt look like he had a lot of burst or athletiscm in college either. In HS, he looked a lot more dynamic but was also older. He is already 20. He doesnt have a lot of size/length. He can still score and projects as a good shooter. Just not sure he is our PG answer either though. At some point he is def worth taking a shot on, just can't put him above Haliburton.

Post #813 » by **mpharris36** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:11 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Find a way to get LaMelo or take Hayes/Haliburton. Still seems like the best option. I still can't talk myself into taking Cole.

Yeah I keep trying to think of a scenario where I think Cole Anthony would work here and I just don't see it.

His suspect playmaking ability for a guy with his high of usage and his injury concerns just seem like a poor fit with our history.

Yea, his passing/playmaking was suspect. Another concern is that he didnt look like he had a lot of burst or athletiscm in college either. In HS, he looked a lot more dynamic but was also older. He is already 20. He doesnt have a lot of size/length. He can still score and projects as a good shooter. Just not sure he is our PG answer either though. At some point he is def worth taking a shot on, just can't put him above Haliburton.

yeah he was pegged as a quick twitch athlete coming out of high school and I didn't see that type of explosion at the college level which limits his upside a bit. But he's kinda that hurky jerky athlete that might be susceptible to knee problems like Rose and Shumpert.

Post #814 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:18 pm

HEZI wrote:BricKillian Hayes won't beat Frank for starting PG role next season, can guarantee that. Explain to me how he's an upgrade? "He needs more time to develop" is just a term for he's just not that good right now

Over Frank? He has a much more aggressive attitude/style then Frank. Much more of a scoring mentality, and has more in his playmaking bag then Frank as a faciliator. Can shoot off the dribble and potentially create some offense, where Frank's not really doing that.

Could even just start both Frank and Hayes together and go with the French connection backcourt.

A lot of younger rookies need time. Just the way it is. He's only 18, where Cole and Haliburton are 20...they have some extra time on him

HEZI · Post #815 » by **HEZI** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:29 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
HEZI wrote:BricKillian Hayes won't beat Frank for starting PG role next season, can guarantee that. Explain to me how he's an upgrade? "He needs more time to develop" is just a term for he's just not that good right now

Over Frank? He has a much more aggressive attitude/style then Frank. Much more of a scoring mentality, and has more in his playmaking bag then Frank as a faciliator. Can shoot off the dribble and potentially create some offense, where Frank's not really doing that.

Could even just start both Frank and Hayes together and go with the French connection backcourt.

A lot of younger rookies need time. Just the way it is. He's only 18, where Cole and Haliburton are 20...they have some extra time on him

3rd year Frank isn't going to allow a raw project like Hayes to come in and take his minutes. Hayes is a turnover machine, from his passes to his sloppy ball handling he's going to get his cookies taken a lot especially in the NBA. He also lacks range and can't shoot NBA 3s and is just comfortable taking long 2s which is meh. Frank is way more ready and experienced going into his 3rd year than Hayes will be as a rookie. I just don't see Hayes being a guy that is ready for a lead role on the Knicks, with all the pressure and adjustment to not only the league but to New York City in general. Frank will destroy him in practice and Hayes won't be getting many minutes on the Knicks. Hayes needs to go to a team like Detroit and suck there for a while while getting minutes.

3toheadmelo · Post #816 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:42 pm

Hayes can probably have a nice impact his rookie year. His skill set is pretty good. Can create for himself and others. He just needs to get stronger and really work on his right hand. 12 PPG 4-5 assists on 43%FG seems possible if he gets minutes right away. Not a ROY contender but decent production

Post #817 » by **mpharris36** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:43 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Hayes can probably have a nice impact his rookie year. His skill set is pretty good. Can create for himself and others. He just needs to get stronger and really work on his right hand.

3toheadmelo · Post #818 » by **3toheadmelo** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:48 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Hayes can probably have a nice impact his rookie year. His skill set is pretty good. Can create for himself and others. He just needs to get stronger and really work on his right hand.

I’ve been pretty high on him since December. Kept mouth shut on him for a while cause of BAF purposes :cheesygrin:

HEZI · Post #819 » by **HEZI** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:51 pm

The only impact Hayes will have as a rookie is helping our chances at getting him

Post #820 » by **mpharris36** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 5:51 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Hayes can probably have a nice impact his rookie year. His skill set is pretty good. Can create for himself and others. He just needs to get stronger and really work on his right hand.

I’ve been pretty high on him since December. Kept mouth shut on him for a while cause of BAF purposes

You did mention he really wasn't in our range if we are picking in the 6-8 range though....