Top 10 Non-PG/SG Passers of All-time

[chitownsalesmen]

not that hes top ten but shaq was pretty good at hitting open shooters.

[dautjazz]

Bird


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Others

Even if Bird is a better passer than Lebron, the gap aint that big.

Look at highlight reels of each for passing. Notice touch passes, that’s an easy way to see the difference in skill, vision and ability. Kicking to a guy where the double team came from requires way less skill and natural passing ability. LeBron has gotten better and deserves credit but Bird was throwing superior passes in college. Also, LeBron plays PG on offense and is excluded by the OP.

Whether Lebron plays PG or not this year, doesn't mean he hasn't played forward the majority of his career. This question is about All-Time, if not Bird wouldn't even be in the debate. Lebron is starting at SF, while Avery Bradley and Danny Green are in the backcourt. Sure Lebron still handles the ball the most, but so did Kobe who was the SG of the team, and many others. I think MJ and Pippen handled the PG duties on offense way more than Ron Harper if I remember correctly. Shouldn't we disqualify Jokic then, as after the ball comes past half court, the offense runs through him.

[SNPA]

Even if Bird is a better passer than Lebron, the gap aint that big.

Look at highlight reels of each for passing. Notice touch passes, that’s an easy way to see the difference in skill, vision and ability. Kicking to a guy where the double team came from requires way less skill and natural passing ability. LeBron has gotten better and deserves credit but Bird was throwing superior passes in college. Also, LeBron plays PG on offense and is excluded by the OP.

Whether Lebron plays PG or not this year, doesn't mean he hasn't played forward the majority of his career. This question is about All-Time, if not Bird wouldn't even be in the debate. Lebron is starting at SF, while Avery Bradley and Danny Green are in the backcourt. Sure Lebron still handles the ball the most, but so did Kobe who was the SG of the team, and many others. I think MJ and Pippen handled the PG duties on offense way more than Ron Harper if I remember correctly. Shouldn't we disqualify Jokic then, as after the ball comes past half court, the offense runs through him.

Pippen played point forward too but James does it to a more extreme level. If you handle the ball most of the time, bring it up and set the offense you are the PG. If the rebounder looks fist to pass it to you, and you generally circle around to get the outlet, you’re the PG. James plays PG on offense by any reasonable definition, it’s not even that debatable really. This is different than a guy like Jokic who has the half court offense run through him. He is an offense hub and is no more a PG than Vlade was. Meanwhile, Kobe just ball hogged.

[ClubLakers KB8]

Wilt lead the league in assists one season for the hell of it. How is he not on the top 10?

Good recommendations all over. Someone who is really underrated in the grand scheme of things is Shaq. Dude was nice at times.

[70sFan]

Barry never played as a guard.

Thanks, it makes sense a 70s fan would be the one correcting me. I'll edit my post, never saw Barry play (born in '82). The clips you see of him are always him dribbling and shooting, e.g.

Watch on YouTube

He looks a lot like a modern guard, man would he feast today.

Given reports from that day, Barry was ball dominant early in his career in the 1960s. When you watch him in mid-70s, he did most of his work off-ball and was in constant movement. A lot of his playmaking came from quick decision making and touch passes (quite like Bird, but he wasn't post player like Larry).

Rick is a fascinating player to watch. He looks like a genius at time, but then he could also have terrible shooting selection in the other game. Three point line would certainly help his game.

[NO-KG-AI]

1. LeBron
2. Bird
3. Jokic
4. Donkey
5. Grant Hill
6. Webber
7. Odom
8. A. Sabonis
9. Noah
10. Turkoglu
Honorable mentions: Diaw, Gasol brothers

Who's your top 10 of all-time?
Either your top 10 best or top 10 favorite.

Garnett is the clear number 4 here to me. Vision, efficiency, being the lead playmaker on top 5 offenses, etc. Numbers back it up for big men, and so does tape. Go watch El Gee's breakdown of Garnett's passing. He's stockton-esque.

LeBron, Bird, and Jokic are my top 3 EASILY for non guards, and I'm not sure Jokic and Bird aren't 1/2 in that order... Jokic is **** fantastic

[JN61]

To me Bird is the best to ever do it and it's honestly not close.

Unless you think Lebron was a PG all his career, then no, Lebron is leaps and bounds better than Bird was as a passer. LeGOAT is arguably a top 3 passer of all time. Easy top 5.

Magic
Stockton
Nash/Lebron
Kidd

He is not close to Bird.

[Trader_Joe]

Bird was one of the sweetest passers from any position.
I didn't even know people thought LBJ compared to him. Bird had eyes in the back of his head type passing, that I've only seen from Magic and Kidd.

[Monky15]

When point forwards come up, Sidney Moncrief's name does to, so he must of been a decent passer.

[Duffman100]

not that hes top ten but shaq was pretty good at hitting open shooters.

Really underrated passer. Like most of Shaq's skills, they were almost always underrated.

[dautjazz]

To me Bird is the best to ever do it and it's honestly not close.

Unless you think Lebron was a PG all his career, then no, Lebron is leaps and bounds better than Bird was as a passer. LeGOAT is arguably a top 3 passer of all time. Easy top 5.

Magic
Stockton
Nash/Lebron
Kidd

He is not close to Bird.

I'd give you one thing, Bird's passing was certainly flashier.

[nikster]

Bird


Gap


More gap



Others

Even if Bird is a better passer than Lebron, the gap aint that big.

Look at highlight reels of each for passing. Notice touch passes, that’s an easy way to see the difference in skill, vision and ability. Kicking to a guy where the double team came from requires way less skill and natural passing ability. LeBron has gotten better and deserves credit but Bird was throwing superior passes in college. Also, LeBron plays PG on offense and is excluded by the OP.

top 10 all time in assists and you think all Lebron does is drive and kick to wide open players?

[foreigngrammar]

To me Bird is the best to ever do it and it's honestly not close.

Unless you think Lebron was a PG all his career, then no, Lebron is leaps and bounds better than Bird was as a passer. LeGOAT is arguably a top 3 passer of all time. Easy top 5.

Magic
Stockton
Nash/Lebron
Kidd

That's unfortunately a false analysis. And it starts with willingness beyond tracked assist #'s

[The_Hater]

To me Bird is the best to ever do it and it's honestly not close.

Unless you think Lebron was a PG all his career, then no, Lebron is leaps and bounds better than Bird was as a passer. LeGOAT is arguably a top 3 passer of all time. Easy top 5.

Magic
Stockton
Nash/Lebron
Kidd

He is not close to Bird.

Both of you are using hyperbole in order to make your point which is either unnecessary or just biased.

Bird and Bron are most likely the 2 best passing forwards of all time. They’re both in the elite of the elite. So no, it’s not ‘honestly not close’ and neither is ‘head and shoulders’ above the other in this regard.

[xdrta+]

Barry never played as a guard.

Thanks, it makes sense a 70s fan would be the one correcting me. I'll edit my post, never saw Barry play (born in '82). The clips you see of him are always him dribbling and shooting, e.g.

Watch on YouTube

He looks a lot like a modern guard, man would he feast today.

Given reports from that day, Barry was ball dominant early in his career in the 1960s. When you watch him in mid-70s, he did most of his work off-ball and was in constant movement. A lot of his playmaking came from quick decision making and touch passes (quite like Bird, but he wasn't post player like Larry).

Rick is a fascinating player to watch. He looks like a genius at time, but then he could also have terrible shooting selection in the other game. Three point line would certainly help his game.

I had season tickets his whole Warrior career. To me, he's one of the most underrated players ever. He did everything well. And yes, a 3 point line would have made a big difference for him.

[Pg81]

To me Bird is the best to ever do it and it's honestly not close.

Unless you think Lebron was a PG all his career, then no, Lebron is leaps and bounds better than Bird was as a passer. LeGOAT is arguably a top 3 passer of all time. Easy top 5.

Magic
Stockton
Nash/Lebron
Kidd

Yeah, no.

[cupcakesnake]

Unless you think Lebron was a PG all his career, then no, Lebron is leaps and bounds better than Bird was as a passer. LeGOAT is arguably a top 3 passer of all time. Easy top 5.

Magic
Stockton
Nash/Lebron
Kidd

He is not close to Bird.

Both of you are using hyperbole in order to make your point which is either unnecessary or just biased.

Bird and Bron are most likely the 2 best passing forwards of all time. They’re both in the elite of the elite. So no, it’s not ‘honestly not close’ and neither is ‘head and shoulders’ above the other in this regard.

To me the Bird vs. Lebron passing question is interesting because they were so different as passers (playing very different roles in very different kinds of offenses). Lebron's best passing attribute is his strength. Lebron can hit any open shooter anywhere on the court with a bullet skip pass. No one else has ever been able to make this kind of pass as regularly as Lebron does. Lebron popularized the skip pass and you now see it more commonly used. Right now we're also getting to see Lebron put on a passing clinic because he's paired with arguably the greatest finisher/lob-catcher in NBA history. I do feel like AD is kind of a cheat code for a good passer though and Lebron is getting a little bit too much credit for "mastering the game". Like c'mon, Lebron has never played with a finisher like this in his career. But also, almost no player ever has played with a finisher like this in their career.

Bird was special to me as a passer for how decisive and unpredictable he was with it. Bird passing highlights are just insane. A go to when I'm bored is just typing into youtube: larry bird passing highlights. Bird never needed to look at a player to know where they were. He was the best ever at turning loose balls into assists. The craziest thing about Bird averaging 6-7 assists every year was that, if you actually watch Bird play, he plays mostly off-ball. Imaging Klay Thompson averaging 7 assists per game... hard isn't it. Bird's game defied logic. Bird felt like he could make any kind of pass he needed to in any kind of situation.

IMO, Bird is in the conversation for best passer ever alongside Magic Johnson, Steve Nash and I'll make room for Jokic on that list soon. Lebron is somewhere in the next group of passers to me with CP3, Kidd, Rubio, and handful of other guys. If I had a list of all-time passers, I'd have Bird like 3 or 4, and Lebron somewhere in the back half of the top 10. They're really close and both elite. It's possible Lebron brings more value with his passing because of his ability to pressure the rim and collapse a defense and then hit anyone who is open.

To answer the OP, my favorite non-PG/SG (non-Bird, non-Lebron) passers are

Jokic: like i say above, I think he's going to end up a top 3 passer all-time.
Diaw: my favorite passer to watch after Bird. I youtube him almost as often.
Divac/Webber: I miss these Kings teams. Never has the high post been so potent. The way they'd leverage Webber's scoring thread and Peja's ability to come off screens made for the most beautiful version of the Princeton offense we've ever seen.
Pippen: really fun in transition. He was a really willing passer who thrived in the triangle and obviously had the triangle imprinted in his DNA in terms of cutting and passing.
Sabonis: Sometimes I think he's a little overrated as a passer because he loved to try crazy passes so he had a lot of style with that behind/over the head pass. I think that pass is actually cooler looking than it is difficult. I still think he's one of the best passing bigs ever.

Honourable mentions: Kareem, both Gasols, KG, Odom, Rick Barry, Iggy if he's a 3, Anthony Mason, Paul Pressey, grant hill, joe ingles

[Mickey8]

1...bird
2...walton
3...sabonis
4...jokic
5...lebron
6...noah

Sabonis is not the better passer than Jokic. Lebron shouldn't count since hes pretty much PG, handling the ball for the teams he is playing for 90% of the time.

[The Explorer]

No mention of Bill Russell? He is one among the top big man passers all time, if not the best.

[Flash Falcon X]

Nowhere near the top 10 (not even top 200), but Andrew Bogut comes to mind as an underrated big man passer. The Warriors first championship had him making an insane amount of passes, I really miss that offense. It's crazy when you look at his stats how few APG he had that year, tons of the offense flowed through him.

And in the 2016 Finals people like to bring up Draymond's suspension, but people forget Andrew Bogut got injured in Game 5 and had to miss Games 6 and 7. Huge loss for GSW on both defense and offense (missing his passing and had to play Ezeli in his place.)