2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[mpharris36]

Effecient with a 58.5% TS compared to Cole 50% TS%.

That incorporates all shots from everywhere.

[HEZI]

Trust me I watched that video 10 times already. It gives me all types of tingles.

But Hayes is simply more advanced offensively than frank in terms of every category outside of spot up shooting.

Hayes has a floater, he has a step back jumper, he gets into the paint more consistently then Frank. Hayes was charged with more with creation and playmaking while frank before he was drafted was more of that glue type player. Frank value also comes on the defensive end being able to guard multiple positions and be switchable nearly 1-5.

Frank is very important to this team but Hayes is much more advanced at his age then Frank has ever been in terms of scoring and passing.

Hayes is not doing anything like that in the NBA especially on last years squad. Hayes wouldn't even crack the rotation. His weak ball handles and turnovers not to mention his high foul rate would keep him on the bench. His inefficient step back long 2s aren't better than Frank's pull up mid range 2s. Hayes is not better offensively than Frank.

so he turns the ball over. A lot of young guards turn the ball over. He also gets a lot of assists. His assist % was nearly 40% while Cole Anthony who also turns the ball over a ton had a assist % of 24%.

So yes Hayes needs to clean up the turnovers but his intentions for making the right play are much better.

I really don't care for Hayes assists when the Knicks lack scorers and shooters. RJ Barrett doesn't need guys to give him assists, he needs guys to get out of the paint and out of his way. Who else is there that needs the ball to be assisted to them? Mitchell Robinson? No, I'm not drafting a guard just to feed lobs to Robinson that's nonsense. Only other options is Knox and he needs guys to create shots for him but again I wouldn't draft a guard just to create shots for Knox. Give me a scorer at the guard position who can shoot! RJ needs the ball in his hands too so he needs options to rely on to shoot. Cole not only can catch and shoot but he can score in iso and on the break. He's the best option for us.

[HEZI]

Effecient with a 58.5% TS compared to Cole 50% TS%.

That incorporates all shots from everywhere.

8 FGA
.9 3PM
11 PPG

I'm good on that type of efficiency. It's solid for a backup though

[mpharris36]

Hayes is not doing anything like that in the NBA especially on last years squad. Hayes wouldn't even crack the rotation. His weak ball handles and turnovers not to mention his high foul rate would keep him on the bench. His inefficient step back long 2s aren't better than Frank's pull up mid range 2s. Hayes is not better offensively than Frank.

so he turns the ball over. A lot of young guards turn the ball over. He also gets a lot of assists. His assist % was nearly 40% while Cole Anthony who also turns the ball over a ton had a assist % of 24%.

So yes Hayes needs to clean up the turnovers but his intentions for making the right play are much better.

I really don't care for Hayes assists when the Knicks lack scorers and shooters. RJ Barrett doesn't need guys to give him assists, he needs guys to get out of the paint and out of his way. Who else is there that needs the ball to be assisted to them? Mitchell Robinson? No, I'm not drafting a guard just to feed lobs to Robinson that's nonsense. Only other options is Knox and he needs guys to create shots for him but again I wouldn't draft a guard just to create shots for Knox. Give me a scorer at the guard position who can shoot! RJ needs the ball in his hands too so he needs options to rely on to shoot. Cole not only can catch and shoot but he can score in iso and on the break. He's the best option for us.

why would you be making decision on a roster that could completely change in one year.

One trade of Randle and a signing of Bertans or Wood and you vastly improve the shooting at the 4 spot. Get a shooter at the 2 guard spot and now you have the semblance of a modern offense.

Having a bunch of low efficiency score first guards, in what world has that been successful in the NBA?

I don't want my team to be ISO heavy. If you have a point guard that is a threat and can also get his teammates good looks that is successful.

Just because Steve Mills built a sh*t roster doesn't mean you don't double down and draft a guy that plays off julius randle better

[mpharris36]

Effecient with a 58.5% TS compared to Cole 50% TS%.

That incorporates all shots from everywhere.

8 FGA
.9 3PM
11 PPG

I'm good on that type of efficiency. It's solid for a backup though

an 18 year old playing 24 mins a game? Your not drafting him for that overseas production...he's a kid.

So you would rather just have a guy that just jacks up more shots at a worse efficiency?

[HEZI]

so he turns the ball over. A lot of young guards turn the ball over. He also gets a lot of assists. His assist % was nearly 40% while Cole Anthony who also turns the ball over a ton had a assist % of 24%.

So yes Hayes needs to clean up the turnovers but his intentions for making the right play are much better.

I really don't care for Hayes assists when the Knicks lack scorers and shooters. RJ Barrett doesn't need guys to give him assists, he needs guys to get out of the paint and out of his way. Who else is there that needs the ball to be assisted to them? Mitchell Robinson? No, I'm not drafting a guard just to feed lobs to Robinson that's nonsense. Only other options is Knox and he needs guys to create shots for him but again I wouldn't draft a guard just to create shots for Knox. Give me a scorer at the guard position who can shoot! RJ needs the ball in his hands too so he needs options to rely on to shoot. Cole not only can catch and shoot but he can score in iso and on the break. He's the best option for us.

why would you be making decision on a roster that could completely change in one year.

One trade of Randle and a signing of Bertans or Wood and you vastly improve the shooting at the 4 spot. Get a shooter at the 2 guard spot and now you have the semblance of a modern offense.

Having a bunch of low efficiency score first guards, in what world has that been successful in the NBA?

I don't want my team to be ISO heavy. If you have a point guard that is a threat and can also get his teammates good looks that is successful.

Just because Steve Mills built a sh*t roster doesn't mean you don't double down and draft a guy that plays off julius randle better

You think

Killian Hayes
Reggie Bullock
RJ Barrett
Davis Bertans
Mitchell Robinson

Is going to be successful?

[mpharris36]

I really don't care for Hayes assists when the Knicks lack scorers and shooters. RJ Barrett doesn't need guys to give him assists, he needs guys to get out of the paint and out of his way. Who else is there that needs the ball to be assisted to them? Mitchell Robinson? No, I'm not drafting a guard just to feed lobs to Robinson that's nonsense. Only other options is Knox and he needs guys to create shots for him but again I wouldn't draft a guard just to create shots for Knox. Give me a scorer at the guard position who can shoot! RJ needs the ball in his hands too so he needs options to rely on to shoot. Cole not only can catch and shoot but he can score in iso and on the break. He's the best option for us.

why would you be making decision on a roster that could completely change in one year.

One trade of Randle and a signing of Bertans or Wood and you vastly improve the shooting at the 4 spot. Get a shooter at the 2 guard spot and now you have the semblance of a modern offense.

Having a bunch of low efficiency score first guards, in what world has that been successful in the NBA?

I don't want my team to be ISO heavy. If you have a point guard that is a threat and can also get his teammates good looks that is successful.

Just because Steve Mills built a sh*t roster doesn't mean you don't double down and draft a guy that plays off julius randle better

You think

Killian Hayes
Reggie Bullock
RJ Barrett
Davis Bertans
Mitchell Robinson

Is going to be successful?

I'm not sure what you are expecting out of next year. Us to be a playoff contender? We need to continue to add pieces that will eventually build a winner.

And what..

Cole Anthony
RJ Barrett
Julius Randle

make us a playoff contender instead?

[HEZI]

Effecient with a 58.5% TS compared to Cole 50% TS%.

That incorporates all shots from everywhere.

8 FGA
.9 3PM
11 PPG

I'm good on that type of efficiency. It's solid for a backup though

an 18 year old playing 24 mins a game? Your not drafting him for that overseas production...he's a kid.

So you would rather just have a guy that just jacks up more shots at a worse efficiency?

If he's shooting 35% from 3 and making over 2 per game yes he can jack them up. We need that

Who was the last PG we had that could should at a reasonable clip? Ray Felton?

[HEZI]

why would you be making decision on a roster that could completely change in one year.

One trade of Randle and a signing of Bertans or Wood and you vastly improve the shooting at the 4 spot. Get a shooter at the 2 guard spot and now you have the semblance of a modern offense.

Having a bunch of low efficiency score first guards, in what world has that been successful in the NBA?

I don't want my team to be ISO heavy. If you have a point guard that is a threat and can also get his teammates good looks that is successful.

Just because Steve Mills built a sh*t roster doesn't mean you don't double down and draft a guy that plays off julius randle better

You think

Killian Hayes
Reggie Bullock
RJ Barrett
Davis Bertans
Mitchell Robinson

Is going to be successful?

I'm not sure what you are expecting out of next year. Us to be a playoff contender? We need to continue to add pieces that will eventually build a winner.

And what..

Cole Anthony
RJ Barrett
Julius Randle

make us a playoff contender instead?

Julius Randle isn't leading anybody to the playoffs. Cole Anthony has a better chance of becoming a go to scorer than any of the guys you are discussing. You think Hayes is going to turn us into a winner? Oh, he's going to be a piece that eventually builds us a winner in like what? 5 years? When Hayes is just a guy we drafted that helps us land legit talent and we pawn him off to somebody else? Because Hayes isn't winning anything in NY either.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Hayes is not doing anything like that in the NBA especially on last years squad. Hayes wouldn't even crack the rotation. His weak ball handles and turnovers not to mention his high foul rate would keep him on the bench. His inefficient step back long 2s aren't better than Frank's pull up mid range 2s. Hayes is not better offensively than Frank.

Hayes was much more efficient then Cole and had a much better Assist to TO ratio going against Pros while also younger.

Efficient at what? Long 2s? Yeah maybe. He was terrible from outside, barely got into the paint and wasn't even his teams best scorer. Cole's turnovers came from being blitzed on the perimeter because he was the only perimeter scorer and then running into walls when he tried to get into the paint due to terrible floor spacing. Cole is a far superior talent than Hayes, it's not even close.

Hayes was more efficient at everything except 3's. As MP mentioned he had a much higher TS %.

Hayes didn't have a ton of help on his team either. He was the main guy and stepped up. Cole didnt have much help, but there have been plenty of college teams with little help and top prospects still shine. Don't know if we have ever seen a PG with numbers as bad as Cole turn out to be really good.

[mpharris36]

8 FGA
.9 3PM
11 PPG

I'm good on that type of efficiency. It's solid for a backup though

an 18 year old playing 24 mins a game? Your not drafting him for that overseas production...he's a kid.

So you would rather just have a guy that just jacks up more shots at a worse efficiency?

If he's shooting 35% from 3 and making over 2 per game yes he can jack them up. We need that

Who was the last PG we had that could should at a reasonable clip? Ray Felton?

If your just looking for a guard that can shoot just draft Desmond Bane in the second round he shoots it far better than Cole Anthony

[mpharris36]

You think

Killian Hayes
Reggie Bullock
RJ Barrett
Davis Bertans
Mitchell Robinson

Is going to be successful?

I'm not sure what you are expecting out of next year. Us to be a playoff contender? We need to continue to add pieces that will eventually build a winner.

And what..

Cole Anthony
RJ Barrett
Julius Randle

make us a playoff contender instead?

Julius Randle isn't leading anybody to the playoffs. Cole Anthony has a better chance of becoming a go to scorer than any of the guys you are discussing. You think Hayes is going to turn us into a winner? Oh, he's going to be a piece that eventually builds us a winner in like what? 5 years? When Hayes is just a guy we drafted that helps us land legit talent and we pawn him off to somebody else? Because Hayes isn't winning anything in NY either.

what does it matter if you can score but you can't do it with any kind of efficiency?

[Buttah304]

I’m not even that high on Cole although he certainly has potential to be a big time scorer at the next level. Having said that, nobody should be judging Cole as far as playmaking is concerned because that NC team was an absolute disgrace. Everyone in the coaching staff knew that, especially Roy. His teammates collectively were laughable. Truly an embarrassment to that school.

[HEZI]

Hayes was much more efficient then Cole and had a much better Assist to TO ratio going against Pros while also younger.

Efficient at what? Long 2s? Yeah maybe. He was terrible from outside, barely got into the paint and wasn't even his teams best scorer. Cole's turnovers came from being blitzed on the perimeter because he was the only perimeter scorer and then running into walls when he tried to get into the paint due to terrible floor spacing. Cole is a far superior talent than Hayes, it's not even close.

Hayes was more efficient at everything except 3's. As MP mentioned he had a much higher TS %.

Hayes didn't have a ton of help on his team either. He was the main guy and stepped up. Cole didnt have much help, but there have been plenty of college teams with little help and top prospects still shine. Don't know if we have ever seen a PG with numbers as bad as Cole turn out to be really good.

Hayes team was like 1-10 in Eurocup. How did Hayes step up exactly? His team was awful and the record speaks for it. Hayes also didn't put up any impressive numbers and his efficiency wasn't good enough for much. Maybe if he was a better scorer it would have helped

[HEZI]

an 18 year old playing 24 mins a game? Your not drafting him for that overseas production...he's a kid.

So you would rather just have a guy that just jacks up more shots at a worse efficiency?

If he's shooting 35% from 3 and making over 2 per game yes he can jack them up. We need that

Who was the last PG we had that could should at a reasonable clip? Ray Felton?

If your just looking for a guard that can shoot just draft Desmond Bane in the second round he shoots it far better than Cole Anthony

Or just draft Cassius Winston who can shoot, is efficient and is a better passer than Hayes

[HEZI]

I'm not sure what you are expecting out of next year. Us to be a playoff contender? We need to continue to add pieces that will eventually build a winner.

And what..

Cole Anthony
RJ Barrett
Julius Randle

make us a playoff contender instead?

Julius Randle isn't leading anybody to the playoffs. Cole Anthony has a better chance of becoming a go to scorer than any of the guys you are discussing. You think Hayes is going to turn us into a winner? Oh, he's going to be a piece that eventually builds us a winner in like what? 5 years? When Hayes is just a guy we drafted that helps us land legit talent and we pawn him off to somebody else? Because Hayes isn't winning anything in NY either.

what does it matter if you can score but you can't do it with any kind of efficiency?

What does it matter if you are efficient on low volume? That's role player territory for a guard. Can't get away with that in the starting lineup, it could work off the bench though.

[mpharris36]

If he's shooting 35% from 3 and making over 2 per game yes he can jack them up. We need that

Who was the last PG we had that could should at a reasonable clip? Ray Felton?

If your just looking for a guard that can shoot just draft Desmond Bane in the second round he shoots it far better than Cole Anthony

Or just draft Cassius Winston who can shoot, is efficient and is a better passer than Hayes

Winston and Hayes have the exact same TS% and nearly the exact same Assist/Turnover rate....and Hayes is 4 year younger.

Then add in the fact that Winston is 6'1 and wont be able to get his shot off vs NBA players consistently while Hayes is a legit 6'5 and possibly still growing.

Winston is a great college player though, I do love him on Mich State...I just don't see him having any role in the NBA. Seems like more of an overseas guy that will be able to put up good numbers in another league.

He doesn't have the size or athleticism to really be a difference maker in the NBA.

[HEZI]

Also, anybody expecting Hayes to be an efficient scorer in the NBA is setting themselves up. Cole will be a much more efficient scorer than Hayes. Just wait for Hayes to get in the league, folks will realize quick he aint good.

[mpharris36]

Julius Randle isn't leading anybody to the playoffs. Cole Anthony has a better chance of becoming a go to scorer than any of the guys you are discussing. You think Hayes is going to turn us into a winner? Oh, he's going to be a piece that eventually builds us a winner in like what? 5 years? When Hayes is just a guy we drafted that helps us land legit talent and we pawn him off to somebody else? Because Hayes isn't winning anything in NY either.

what does it matter if you can score but you can't do it with any kind of efficiency?

What does it matter if you are efficient on low volume? That's role player territory for a guard. Can't get away with that in the starting lineup, it could work off the bench though.

because if you are also creating for others then that is more pts.

If you are high usage is resulting in low effeciency but the low effeciency guard is getting good looks for his teammates.

Then your team is a much better offense.

You love Halliburton who is one of the lowest usage guys, so you obviously don't mind low volume point guards.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Efficient at what? Long 2s? Yeah maybe. He was terrible from outside, barely got into the paint and wasn't even his teams best scorer. Cole's turnovers came from being blitzed on the perimeter because he was the only perimeter scorer and then running into walls when he tried to get into the paint due to terrible floor spacing. Cole is a far superior talent than Hayes, it's not even close.

Hayes was more efficient at everything except 3's. As MP mentioned he had a much higher TS %.

Hayes didn't have a ton of help on his team either. He was the main guy and stepped up. Cole didnt have much help, but there have been plenty of college teams with little help and top prospects still shine. Don't know if we have ever seen a PG with numbers as bad as Cole turn out to be really good.

Hayes team was like 1-10 in Eurocup. How did Hayes step up exactly? His team was awful and the record speaks for it. Hayes also didn't put up any impressive numbers and his efficiency wasn't good enough for much. Maybe if he was a better scorer it would have helped

12.8ppg, 6.2apg, 45%fg, 39% 3pt, 1.5spg in 26.8mpg. He put up good numbers in Eurocup. The team wasn't good, and he still produced