2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[King of Canada]

We’re going to reach a record number of draft threads this year

[mpharris36]

We’re going to reach a record number of draft threads this year

we don't even know where we are picking

[HEZI]

If your just looking for a guard that can shoot just draft Desmond Bane in the second round he shoots it far better than Cole Anthony

Or just draft Cassius Winston who can shoot, is efficient and is a better passer than Hayes

Winston and Hayes have the exact same TS% and nearly the exact same Assist/Turnover rate....and Hayes is 4 year younger.

Then add in the fact that Winston is 6'1 and wont be able to get his shot off vs NBA players consistently while Hayes is a legit 6'5 and possibly still growing.

Winston is a great college player though, I do love him on Mich State...I just don't see him having any role in the NBA. Seems like more of an overseas guy that will be able to put up good numbers in another league.

He doesn't have the size or athleticism to really be a difference maker in the NBA.

Hayes can only dream of averaging 18 PPG while making over 2 threes per game. Winston has a quick release so it doesn't matter what his size is, 6'1" is just fine for an NBA PG. Lets not go down this road again. Hayes has a slow release, like super slow, that is far more concerning than a players height. Hayes needs room to get a shot off, lot of room and lots of space, that is concerning.

Winston would be the best PG on the Knicks currently so no I don't think he's not qualified for the NBA. Ideally he can be a backup but he can also be a starter in the right situation. On the Sixers, yeah for sure, they need somebody like him desperately. Even the Clippers could use a PG like him. Lakers too.

If TS% is really that important to you, then I'm sure you got RJ Barrett on the trade block right now because his 48% TS% has no business being built around. Instead, we should be building around Mitchell Robinson then?

[HEZI]

what does it matter if you can score but you can't do it with any kind of efficiency?

What does it matter if you are efficient on low volume? That's role player territory for a guard. Can't get away with that in the starting lineup, it could work off the bench though.

because if you are also creating for others then that is more pts.

If you are high usage is resulting in low effeciency but the low effeciency guard is getting good looks for his teammates.

Then your team is a much better offense.

You love Halliburton who is one of the lowest usage guys, so you obviously don't mind low volume point guards.

Creating what for others? You want a passer who can't shoot and isn't a scorer to add to a team who lacks shooting and scorers? That makes no sense. You wanted Cole to pass more, but ok, to who? You can't even name 2 other starters on that entire team. Roy Williams himself called it the least talented team outside of Cole that he's ever had to coach. You want more shot opportunities for who?

I like Haliburton because he's one of the better spot up long range shooters. He's not just a passer. He can be a legit kickout option on the perimeter and he's a pesky defender who scores plenty in the open court whether it's off of defensive plays or ripping down boards or leaking out, he's a versatile enough scorer, unlike Hayes.

[HEZI]

Hayes was more efficient at everything except 3's. As MP mentioned he had a much higher TS %.

Hayes didn't have a ton of help on his team either. He was the main guy and stepped up. Cole didnt have much help, but there have been plenty of college teams with little help and top prospects still shine. Don't know if we have ever seen a PG with numbers as bad as Cole turn out to be really good.

Hayes team was like 1-10 in Eurocup. How did Hayes step up exactly? His team was awful and the record speaks for it. Hayes also didn't put up any impressive numbers and his efficiency wasn't good enough for much. Maybe if he was a better scorer it would have helped

12.8ppg, 6.2apg, 45%fg, 39% 3pt, 1.5spg in 26.8mpg. He put up good numbers in Eurocup. The team wasn't good, and he still produced

10 game sample size and a 1-10 record? Meh, looks like he needed to produce better

[3toheadmelo]

Cole is a talented scorer but his playmaking skills are suspect and he's very inefficient. Plus he sucks on defense. Hayes looks like he can be nice scoring threat at good efficiency, run an offense, and play defense. Would rather take a chance on Hayes or even Haliburton although Haliburton may have a lower ceiling.

[RHODEY]

Find a way to get LaMelo or take Hayes/Haliburton. Still seems like the best option. I still can't talk myself into taking Cole.

Agreed...

if i were picking 10th and lamelo, killian, and haliburton are all gone... then i consider myself lucky cole fell into my lap, to an extent. but i can't see myself taking him over them.

Hmmm, think I might trade back for Kira Lewis or pick him outright or take the BPA at that point....but 10th is so unlikely anyway...

[mpharris36]

Or just draft Cassius Winston who can shoot, is efficient and is a better passer than Hayes

Winston and Hayes have the exact same TS% and nearly the exact same Assist/Turnover rate....and Hayes is 4 year younger.

Then add in the fact that Winston is 6'1 and wont be able to get his shot off vs NBA players consistently while Hayes is a legit 6'5 and possibly still growing.

Winston is a great college player though, I do love him on Mich State...I just don't see him having any role in the NBA. Seems like more of an overseas guy that will be able to put up good numbers in another league.

He doesn't have the size or athleticism to really be a difference maker in the NBA.

Hayes can only dream of averaging 18 PPG while making over 2 threes per game. Winston has a quick release so it doesn't matter what his size is, 6'1" is just fine for an NBA PG. Lets not go down this road again. Hayes has a slow release, like super slow, that is far more concerning than a players height. Hayes needs room to get a shot off, lot of room and lots of space, that is concerning.

Winston would be the best PG on the Knicks currently so no I don't think he's not qualified for the NBA. Ideally he can be a backup but he can also be a starter in the right situation. On the Sixers, yeah for sure, they need somebody like him desperately. Even the Clippers could use a PG like him. Lakers too.

If TS% is really that important to you, then I'm sure you got RJ Barrett on the trade block right now because his 48% TS% has no business being built around. Instead, we should be building around Mitchell Robinson then?

Winston was avg 6.7 ppg when he was Hayes age...its unfair to compare a guy doing that at the college level vs a guy playing 10 less minutes per game.

Hayes per 36 is nearly 17 ppg this idea that he can't score I have no idea where this is coming from. Just look at his game logs when he was given the main role as starting play 30 mins a game.

ppg

15
25
14
11
10
7
15
11
20
18
14
14

thats about 14.5 ppg in about 30 mins per game. As an 18 year old.

For even as much as a love frank he never did that for his professional team.

[HEZI]

On top of Hayes super slow release on his shot, he's just slow moving around the floor in general. No speed or burst, not even much bounce on his vertical. Dude is just so average but he's young and they will attach "potential" to his name and run with it.

[mpharris36]

Cole is a talented scorer but his playmaking skills are suspect and he's very inefficient. Plus he sucks on defense. Hayes looks like he can be nice scoring threat at good efficiency, run an offense, and play defense. Would rather take a chance on Hayes or even Haliburton although Haliburton may have a lower ceiling.

[RHODEY]

which one is 2nd frank? i've heard both hayes and haliburton compared to him in our context.

haliburton

haha. i figured.

i see it. haliburton has a longer history of being a knockdown shooter at the amateur level. frank had a very brief period in his amateur career where he shot like 50% from three and mostly on spot-ups.

i think haliburton's offensive game is a little underrated and more advanced than frank's. he looks like a low ceiling, high floor guy. but i love his approach to the game... as i love the dream of what frank could be.

His IQ and passing are underrated...I prefer Hayes but I think if anyone proves me wrong it will be Halliburton.

[HEZI]

Winston and Hayes have the exact same TS% and nearly the exact same Assist/Turnover rate....and Hayes is 4 year younger.

Then add in the fact that Winston is 6'1 and wont be able to get his shot off vs NBA players consistently while Hayes is a legit 6'5 and possibly still growing.

Winston is a great college player though, I do love him on Mich State...I just don't see him having any role in the NBA. Seems like more of an overseas guy that will be able to put up good numbers in another league.

He doesn't have the size or athleticism to really be a difference maker in the NBA.

Hayes can only dream of averaging 18 PPG while making over 2 threes per game. Winston has a quick release so it doesn't matter what his size is, 6'1" is just fine for an NBA PG. Lets not go down this road again. Hayes has a slow release, like super slow, that is far more concerning than a players height. Hayes needs room to get a shot off, lot of room and lots of space, that is concerning.

Winston would be the best PG on the Knicks currently so no I don't think he's not qualified for the NBA. Ideally he can be a backup but he can also be a starter in the right situation. On the Sixers, yeah for sure, they need somebody like him desperately. Even the Clippers could use a PG like him. Lakers too.

If TS% is really that important to you, then I'm sure you got RJ Barrett on the trade block right now because his 48% TS% has no business being built around. Instead, we should be building around Mitchell Robinson then?

Winston was avg 6.7 ppg when he was Hayes age...its unfair to compare a guy doing that at the college level vs a guy playing 10 less minutes per game.

Hayes per 36 is nearly 17 ppg this idea that he can't score I have no idea where this is coming from. Just look at his game logs when he was given the main role as starting play 30 mins a game.

ppg

15
25
14
11
10
7
15
11
20
18
14
14

thats about 14.5 ppg in about 30 mins per game. As an 18 year old.

For even as much as a love frank he never did that for his professional team.

Frank played on a team that went to the Finals. Frank played his role for a contender. Hayes team is trash.

If you really want to talk age and fairness then I guess we can just throw Dame Lillard's college stats into the mix. Dame averaged 11 PPG 2.9 APG 2.3 Turnovers in 30 MPG as a freshman in Weber State. I guess Cole will be just fine

[mpharris36]

On top of Hayes super slow release on his shot, he's just slow moving around the floor in general. No speed or burst, not even much bounce on his vertical. Dude is just so average but he's young and they will attach "potential" to his name and run with it.

Cassius got a really low and slow release too

[3toheadmelo]

Cole is a talented scorer but his playmaking skills are suspect and he's very inefficient. Plus he sucks on defense. Hayes looks like he can be nice scoring threat at good efficiency, run an offense, and play defense. Would rather take a chance on Hayes or even Haliburton although Haliburton may have a lower ceiling.

We finally agree on something!

[mpharris36]

Hayes can only dream of averaging 18 PPG while making over 2 threes per game. Winston has a quick release so it doesn't matter what his size is, 6'1" is just fine for an NBA PG. Lets not go down this road again. Hayes has a slow release, like super slow, that is far more concerning than a players height. Hayes needs room to get a shot off, lot of room and lots of space, that is concerning.

Winston would be the best PG on the Knicks currently so no I don't think he's not qualified for the NBA. Ideally he can be a backup but he can also be a starter in the right situation. On the Sixers, yeah for sure, they need somebody like him desperately. Even the Clippers could use a PG like him. Lakers too.

If TS% is really that important to you, then I'm sure you got RJ Barrett on the trade block right now because his 48% TS% has no business being built around. Instead, we should be building around Mitchell Robinson then?

Winston was avg 6.7 ppg when he was Hayes age...its unfair to compare a guy doing that at the college level vs a guy playing 10 less minutes per game.

Hayes per 36 is nearly 17 ppg this idea that he can't score I have no idea where this is coming from. Just look at his game logs when he was given the main role as starting play 30 mins a game.

ppg

15
25
14
11
10
7
15
11
20
18
14
14

thats about 14.5 ppg in about 30 mins per game. As an 18 year old.

For even as much as a love frank he never did that for his professional team.

Frank played on a team that went to the Finals. Frank played his role for a contender. Hayes team is trash.

If you really want to talk age and fairness then I guess we can just throw Dame Lillard's college stats into the mix. Dame averaged 11 PPG 2.9 APG 2.3 Turnovers in 30 MPG as a freshman in Weber State. I guess Cole will be just fine

Correct, if Cole reaches his ceiling he will need to be a Dame Lillard type player. I don't think he will get there but you have the right to your opinion if you think he can.

[mpharris36]

Cole is a talented scorer but his playmaking skills are suspect and he's very inefficient. Plus he sucks on defense. Hayes looks like he can be nice scoring threat at good efficiency, run an offense, and play defense. Would rather take a chance on Hayes or even Haliburton although Haliburton may have a lower ceiling.

We finally agree on something!

[HEZI]

On top of Hayes super slow release on his shot, he's just slow moving around the floor in general. No speed or burst, not even much bounce on his vertical. Dude is just so average but he's young and they will attach "potential" to his name and run with it.

Cassius got a really low and slow release too

Low - yeah

Slow- not at all

[HEZI]

Winston was avg 6.7 ppg when he was Hayes age...its unfair to compare a guy doing that at the college level vs a guy playing 10 less minutes per game.

Hayes per 36 is nearly 17 ppg this idea that he can't score I have no idea where this is coming from. Just look at his game logs when he was given the main role as starting play 30 mins a game.

ppg

15
25
14
11
10
7
15
11
20
18
14
14

thats about 14.5 ppg in about 30 mins per game. As an 18 year old.

For even as much as a love frank he never did that for his professional team.

Frank played on a team that went to the Finals. Frank played his role for a contender. Hayes team is trash.

If you really want to talk age and fairness then I guess we can just throw Dame Lillard's college stats into the mix. Dame averaged 11 PPG 2.9 APG 2.3 Turnovers in 30 MPG as a freshman in Weber State. I guess Cole will be just fine

Correct, if Cole reaches his ceiling he will need to be a Dame Lillard type player. I don't think he will get there but you have the right to your opinion if you think he can.

Current Dame is going to be hard to reach. But I remember liking Dame years ago and folks used to tell me he wasn't that good and was overrated. Same thing I was told about Kyrie before Lebron even went there. I think Cole got a chance to reach younger Dame level though, 20 / 6 shouldn't be out of question for him at some point.

[RHODEY]

Find a way to get LaMelo or take Hayes/Haliburton. Still seems like the best option. I still can't talk myself into taking Cole.

Yeah I keep trying to think of a scenario where I think Cole Anthony would work here and I just don't see it.

His suspect playmaking ability for a guy with his high of usage and his injury concerns just seem like a poor fit with our history.

[RHODEY]

BricKillian Hayes won't beat Frank for starting PG role next season, can guarantee that. Explain to me how he's an upgrade? "He needs more time to develop" is just a term for he's just not that good right now

Over Frank? He has a much more aggressive attitude/style then Frank. Much more of a scoring mentality, and has more in his playmaking bag then Frank as a faciliator. Can shoot off the dribble and potentially create some offense, where Frank's not really doing that.

Could even just start both Frank and Hayes together and go with the French connection backcourt.

A lot of younger rookies need time. Just the way it is. He's only 18, where Cole and Haliburton are 20...they have some extra time on him