2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[Deeeez Knicks]

Frank played on a team that went to the Finals. Frank played his role for a contender. Hayes team is trash.

If you really want to talk age and fairness then I guess we can just throw Dame Lillard's college stats into the mix. Dame averaged 11 PPG 2.9 APG 2.3 Turnovers in 30 MPG as a freshman in Weber State. I guess Cole will be just fine

Correct, if Cole reaches his ceiling he will need to be a Dame Lillard type player. I don't think he will get there but you have the right to your opinion if you think he can.

Current Dame is going to be hard to reach. But I remember liking Dame years ago and folks used to tell me he wasn't that good and was overrated. Same thing I was told about Kyrie before Lebron even went there. I think Cole got a chance to reach younger Dame level though, 20 / 6 shouldn't be out of question for him at some point.

Dame never shot 38% though. He was a sophomore when he was the same age as freshmen year Cole. Dame put up 20ppg with 59% ts when he was 19, turning 20.

[RHODEY]

Hayes can probably have a nice impact his rookie year. His skill set is pretty good. Can create for himself and others. He just needs to get stronger and really work on his right hand. 12 PPG 4-5 assists on 43%FG seems possible if he gets minutes right away. Not a ROY contender but decent production

Absolutely .

[RHODEY]

you are talking to one of the biggest frank fans on this board. And even I think that is a ridiculous comment

Watch on YouTube

Year 2 Frank with a much tighter and cleaner ball handling than Hayes. Much quicker burst and first step than Hayes. Didn't shoot much but he played a lot with Randle and Morris and if Hayes did too he won't be getting shots either. Year 3 Frank will be even better. It's a no contest

Trust me I watched that video 10 times already. It gives me all types of tingles.

But Hayes is simply more advanced offensively than frank in terms of every category outside of spot up shooting.

Hayes has a floater, he has a step back jumper, he gets into the paint more consistently then Frank. Hayes was charged with more with creation and playmaking while frank before he was drafted was more of that glue type player. Frank value also comes on the defensive end being able to guard multiple positions and be switchable nearly 1-5.

Frank is very important to this team but Hayes is much more advanced at his age then Frank has ever been in terms of scoring and passing.

Two completely different players, its comical to think Frank is more advanced offensively than Hayes....Pure comedy

[RHODEY]

Effecient with a 58.5% TS compared to Cole 50% TS%.

That incorporates all shots from everywhere.

[RHODEY]

Hayes was more efficient at everything except 3's. As MP mentioned he had a much higher TS %.

Hayes didn't have a ton of help on his team either. He was the main guy and stepped up. Cole didnt have much help, but there have been plenty of college teams with little help and top prospects still shine. Don't know if we have ever seen a PG with numbers as bad as Cole turn out to be really good.

Hayes team was like 1-10 in Eurocup. How did Hayes step up exactly? His team was awful and the record speaks for it. Hayes also didn't put up any impressive numbers and his efficiency wasn't good enough for much. Maybe if he was a better scorer it would have helped

12.8ppg, 6.2apg, 45%fg, 39% 3pt, 1.5spg in 26.8mpg. He put up good numbers in Eurocup. The team wasn't good, and he still produced

39%? But they say he can't shoot threes!!!

[robillionaire]

Jonathan Kuminga officially reclassifies for 2020 draft, rumor he may skip ncaa and go to g-league

[RHODEY]

Cole is a talented scorer but his playmaking skills are suspect and he's very inefficient. Plus he sucks on defense. Hayes looks like he can be nice scoring threat at good efficiency, run an offense, and play defense. Would rather take a chance on Hayes or even Haliburton although Haliburton may have a lower ceiling.

[RHODEY]

Winston and Hayes have the exact same TS% and nearly the exact same Assist/Turnover rate....and Hayes is 4 year younger.

Then add in the fact that Winston is 6'1 and wont be able to get his shot off vs NBA players consistently while Hayes is a legit 6'5 and possibly still growing.

Winston is a great college player though, I do love him on Mich State...I just don't see him having any role in the NBA. Seems like more of an overseas guy that will be able to put up good numbers in another league.

He doesn't have the size or athleticism to really be a difference maker in the NBA.

Hayes can only dream of averaging 18 PPG while making over 2 threes per game. Winston has a quick release so it doesn't matter what his size is, 6'1" is just fine for an NBA PG. Lets not go down this road again. Hayes has a slow release, like super slow, that is far more concerning than a players height. Hayes needs room to get a shot off, lot of room and lots of space, that is concerning.

Winston would be the best PG on the Knicks currently so no I don't think he's not qualified for the NBA. Ideally he can be a backup but he can also be a starter in the right situation. On the Sixers, yeah for sure, they need somebody like him desperately. Even the Clippers could use a PG like him. Lakers too.

If TS% is really that important to you, then I'm sure you got RJ Barrett on the trade block right now because his 48% TS% has no business being built around. Instead, we should be building around Mitchell Robinson then?

Winston was avg 6.7 ppg when he was Hayes age...its unfair to compare a guy doing that at the college level vs a guy playing 10 less minutes per game.

Hayes per 36 is nearly 17 ppg this idea that he can't score I have no idea where this is coming from. Just look at his game logs when he was given the main role as starting play 30 mins a game.

ppg

15
25
14
11
10
7
15
11
20
18
14
14

thats about 14.5 ppg in about 30 mins per game. As an 18 year old.

For even as much as a love frank he never did that for his professional team.

[HEZI]

Correct, if Cole reaches his ceiling he will need to be a Dame Lillard type player. I don't think he will get there but you have the right to your opinion if you think he can.

Current Dame is going to be hard to reach. But I remember liking Dame years ago and folks used to tell me he wasn't that good and was overrated. Same thing I was told about Kyrie before Lebron even went there. I think Cole got a chance to reach younger Dame level though, 20 / 6 shouldn't be out of question for him at some point.

Dame never shot 38% though. He was a sophomore when he was the same age as freshmen year Cole. Dame put up 20ppg with 59% ts when he was 19, turning 20.

Experience is relevant not age. A freshman is a freshman just like a rookie is a rookie. He shot 43% from the field and 37% from 3 on less makes and attempts while also scoring 11 PPG and only averaging 2.9 assists on 2.3 turnovers. Even as a sophomore he averaged what, 3.6 assists on 2.4 turnovers? Plus, there was nothing crazy about Dame's efficiency either as a sophomore.

Also, here's the difference between 38% and 43% which Dame shot as a sophomore

6.0 makes on 15.7 attempts (38%)
6.0 makes on 13.8 attempts (43%)

A whopping 1.9 shots a game difference

Here's the 3 point shooting difference. Cole shot .348% as a freshman and Dame shot 39% as a sophomore

2.2 makes on 6.4 attempts (35%)
2.7 makes on 6.9 attempts (39%)

A whopping .5 difference in makes and attempts

Volume Is key

[mpharris36]

4 to 5% is a major shooting difference over the course of an entire season

[HEZI]

4 to 5% is a major shooting difference over the course of an entire season

But but the assists though

Remember more assists for others

[mpharris36]

4 to 5% is a major shooting difference over the course of an entire season

But but the assists though

Remember more assists for others

not if your not a good playmaker

that is why TS% is important for a player that isn't good at making his teammates better

[3toheadmelo]

Jonathan Kuminga officially reclassifies for 2020 draft, rumor he may skip ncaa and go to g-league

Cade Cunningham might take the G league route as well

[Jeff Van Gully]

Watch on YouTube

Year 2 Frank with a much tighter and cleaner ball handling than Hayes. Much quicker burst and first step than Hayes. Didn't shoot much but he played a lot with Randle and Morris and if Hayes did too he won't be getting shots either. Year 3 Frank will be even better. It's a no contest

Trust me I watched that video 10 times already. It gives me all types of tingles.

But Hayes is simply more advanced offensively than frank in terms of every category outside of spot up shooting.

Hayes has a floater, he has a step back jumper, he gets into the paint more consistently then Frank. Hayes was charged with more with creation and playmaking while frank before he was drafted was more of that glue type player. Frank value also comes on the defensive end being able to guard multiple positions and be switchable nearly 1-5.

Frank is very important to this team but Hayes is much more advanced at his age then Frank has ever been in terms of scoring and passing.

man, frank was starting to go in fools mouths as the season progressed. he really needed the rest of this year with PT to make a statement.

this WAS year 3. next season is 4 and even if he's solid, i don't see them putting long-term money into him.

[HEZI]

4 to 5% is a major shooting difference over the course of an entire season

But but the assists though

Remember more assists for others

not if your not a good playmaker

that is why TS% is important for a player that isn't good at making his teammates better

Playmaking comes with efficiency too. Being awful in assist to turnover ratio doesn't make you a good playmaker. If you struggle scoring the ball then you better take care of the ball to be considered a good enough playmaker to warrant being the pick. Hayes is none of that, he's a turnover machine.

[mpharris36]

Jonathan Kuminga officially reclassifies for 2020 draft, rumor he may skip ncaa and go to g-league

Cade Cunningham might take the G league route as well

g-league is about to be legit

[mpharris36]

But but the assists though

Remember more assists for others

not if your not a good playmaker

that is why TS% is important for a player that isn't good at making his teammates better

Playmaking comes with efficiency too. Being awful in assist to turnover ratio doesn't make you a good playmaker. If you struggle scoring the ball then you better take care of the ball to be considered a good enough playmaker to warrant being the pick. Hayes is none of that, he's a turnover machine.

I agree 1.7 assist to turnover ratio isn't going to cut it. But many young playmaking guards improve as the continue to develop and the game slows down for them. That is an area where he needs to improve.

[Strick]

I know it’s highlights and workout clips but from what I’ve seen Jay Scrubb seems like an interesting player with our 2nd round pick potentially. Shot 46% from 3 and his shot looks silky smooth. Looks like he has some good athleticism to him as well.

[mpharris36]

Watch on YouTube

Year 2 Frank with a much tighter and cleaner ball handling than Hayes. Much quicker burst and first step than Hayes. Didn't shoot much but he played a lot with Randle and Morris and if Hayes did too he won't be getting shots either. Year 3 Frank will be even better. It's a no contest

Trust me I watched that video 10 times already. It gives me all types of tingles.

But Hayes is simply more advanced offensively than frank in terms of every category outside of spot up shooting.

Hayes has a floater, he has a step back jumper, he gets into the paint more consistently then Frank. Hayes was charged with more with creation and playmaking while frank before he was drafted was more of that glue type player. Frank value also comes on the defensive end being able to guard multiple positions and be switchable nearly 1-5.

Frank is very important to this team but Hayes is much more advanced at his age then Frank has ever been in terms of scoring and passing.

man, frank was starting to go in fools mouths as the season progressed. he really needed the rest of this year with PT to make a statement.

this WAS year 3. next season is 4 and even if he's solid, i don't see them putting long-term money into him.

I hoping Kenny Atkinson is the coach. Dude speaks volumes about Frank. And I think he would get him to another level. Even if frank is a super glue guy I do think its important to have some consistency with the roster. Right now the only two other guys I see a for certain are RJ and Mitch. If you can get him to a reasonable deal especially with the cap going down. It might make sense as when the cap starts to shoot up role players will be more expensive.

[3toheadmelo]

Chad Ford has his own website now and his big board is
1. Lamelo
2. Edwards
3. Wiseman
4. Hayes
5. Haliburton
6. Obi Toppin
7. Onyeka
8. Devin Vassell
9. Isaac Okoro
10. Patrick Williams
11. RJ Hampton
12. Aaron Nesmith
13. Kira Lewis
14. Coleslaw
15. Deni Avdjia

Too lazy to type down the rest
https://nbabigboard.com/