2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[HEZI]

not if your not a good playmaker

that is why TS% is important for a player that isn't good at making his teammates better

Playmaking comes with efficiency too. Being awful in assist to turnover ratio doesn't make you a good playmaker. If you struggle scoring the ball then you better take care of the ball to be considered a good enough playmaker to warrant being the pick. Hayes is none of that, he's a turnover machine.

I agree 1.7 assist to turnover ratio isn't going to cut it. But many young playmaking guards improve as the continue to develop and the game slows down for them. That is an area where he needs to improve.

Hayes isn't the only one who has room to improve. He's just the one who has the most improving to do imo. Why take him?

[Deeeez Knicks]

Current Dame is going to be hard to reach. But I remember liking Dame years ago and folks used to tell me he wasn't that good and was overrated. Same thing I was told about Kyrie before Lebron even went there. I think Cole got a chance to reach younger Dame level though, 20 / 6 shouldn't be out of question for him at some point.

Dame never shot 38% though. He was a sophomore when he was the same age as freshmen year Cole. Dame put up 20ppg with 59% ts when he was 19, turning 20.

Experience is relevant not age. A freshman is a freshman just like a rookie is a rookie. He shot 43% from the field and 37% from 3 on less makes and attempts while also scoring 11 PPG and only averaging 2.9 assists on 2.3 turnovers. Even as a sophomore he averaged what, 3.6 assists on 2.4 turnovers? Plus, there was nothing crazy about Dame's efficiency either as a sophomore.

Also, here's the difference between 38% and 43% which Dame shot as a sophomore

6.0 makes on 15.7 attempts (38%)
6.0 makes on 13.8 attempts (43%)

A whopping 1.9 shots a game difference

Here's the 3 point shooting difference. Cole shot .348% as a freshman and Dame shot 39% as a sophomore

2.2 makes on 6.4 attempts (35%)
2.7 makes on 6.9 attempts (39%)

A whopping .5 difference in makes and attempts

Volume Is key

Both experience and age are relevant.

Either way its just a lot of red flags for Cole. Sounds like he has a great work ethic and attitude so he should be ok. I just see more of a 3rd Guard/6th man then a starting pg or star. I like Hayes better. You never know though.

[mpharris36]

Playmaking comes with efficiency too. Being awful in assist to turnover ratio doesn't make you a good playmaker. If you struggle scoring the ball then you better take care of the ball to be considered a good enough playmaker to warrant being the pick. Hayes is none of that, he's a turnover machine.

I agree 1.7 assist to turnover ratio isn't going to cut it. But many young playmaking guards improve as the continue to develop and the game slows down for them. That is an area where he needs to improve.

Hayes isn't the only one who has room to improve. He's just the one who has the most improving to do imo. Why take him?

because if you take all of synergy's key offensive stats.

Killian Hayes:

scoring around the basket (68th percentile)
shooting off the dribble (84th percentile)
P&R scoring (70th percentile)
P&R passing (67th percentile)
ISO (70th percentile)

Cole Anthony:

scoring around the basket (2nd percentile) - yikes
shooting off the dribble (85th percentile)
P&R scoring (33rd percentile)
P&R passing (25th percentile)
ISO (61st percentile)

The only large difference where Cole knocks Hayes out of the boat is C&S/Spot Up jumpers. But if you are looking for that Haliburton is even better than both and he is a much much much better defender. So if we are looking for that type of guard that can just space the floor and playmake a little Haliburton is a better option.

[3toheadmelo]

I don’t even think Cole is a better prospect than Kira Lewis tbh

[mpharris36]

I don’t even think Cole is a better prospect than Kira Lewis tbh

[King of Canada]

We’re going to reach a record number of draft threads this year

we don't even know where we are picking

I’m more referring to how far the draft date has been pushed back

[HEZI]

I agree 1.7 assist to turnover ratio isn't going to cut it. But many young playmaking guards improve as the continue to develop and the game slows down for them. That is an area where he needs to improve.

Hayes isn't the only one who has room to improve. He's just the one who has the most improving to do imo. Why take him?

because if you take all of synergy's key offensive stats.

Killian Hayes:

scoring around the basket (68th percentile)
shooting off the dribble (84th percentile)
P&R scoring (70th percentile)
P&R passing (67th percentile)
ISO (70th percentile)

Cole Anthony:

scoring around the basket (2nd percentile) - yikes
shooting off the dribble (85th percentile)
P&R scoring (33rd percentile)
P&R passing (25th percentile)
ISO (61st percentile)

The only large difference where Cole knocks Hayes out of the boat is C&S/Spot Up jumpers. But if you are looking for that Haliburton is even better than both and he is a much much much better defender. So if we are looking for that type of guard that can just space the floor and playmake a little Haliburton is a better option.

No I'm actually looking for a guard that shoots more than 8 times a game. When Hayes can do that efficiently and consistently then I will be a believer. Until then, we are talking about a low volume pass first PG vs. a high volume score first PG. I'm taking the scorer all day everyday especially for this Knicks team. Under a different circumstance I might go a different route.

[mpharris36]

Hayes isn't the only one who has room to improve. He's just the one who has the most improving to do imo. Why take him?

because if you take all of synergy's key offensive stats.

Killian Hayes:

scoring around the basket (68th percentile)
shooting off the dribble (84th percentile)
P&R scoring (70th percentile)
P&R passing (67th percentile)
ISO (70th percentile)

Cole Anthony:

scoring around the basket (2nd percentile) - yikes
shooting off the dribble (85th percentile)
P&R scoring (33rd percentile)
P&R passing (25th percentile)
ISO (61st percentile)

The only large difference where Cole knocks Hayes out of the boat is C&S/Spot Up jumpers. But if you are looking for that Haliburton is even better than both and he is a much much much better defender. So if we are looking for that type of guard that can just space the floor and playmake a little Haliburton is a better option.

No I'm actually looking for a guard that shoots more than 8 times a game. When Hayes can do that efficiently and consistently then I will be a believer. Until then, we are talking about a low volume pass first PG vs. a high volume score first PG. I'm taking the scorer all day everyday especially for this Knicks team. Under a different circumstance I might go a different route.

don't you think that just an arbitrary number without context behind it?

I mean you have to put that into context that he was a part time player that really didn't get he reigns until later in the season when his shot attempts and scoring rose with his incrased role/minutes.

Its not just about the high volume that bothers mean because there are high volume scorers like Lillard. The concerns are if the high volume also comes with low effeciency that is a horrible combination.

Hayes isn't some passive pass 1st pg like Prigioni either. He has translatable skills to be a good scorer in the NBA. Thats just not they eye test either, there are very sound stats to back that up.

[HEZI]

because if you take all of synergy's key offensive stats.

Killian Hayes:

scoring around the basket (68th percentile)
shooting off the dribble (84th percentile)
P&R scoring (70th percentile)
P&R passing (67th percentile)
ISO (70th percentile)

Cole Anthony:

scoring around the basket (2nd percentile) - yikes
shooting off the dribble (85th percentile)
P&R scoring (33rd percentile)
P&R passing (25th percentile)
ISO (61st percentile)

The only large difference where Cole knocks Hayes out of the boat is C&S/Spot Up jumpers. But if you are looking for that Haliburton is even better than both and he is a much much much better defender. So if we are looking for that type of guard that can just space the floor and playmake a little Haliburton is a better option.

No I'm actually looking for a guard that shoots more than 8 times a game. When Hayes can do that efficiently and consistently then I will be a believer. Until then, we are talking about a low volume pass first PG vs. a high volume score first PG. I'm taking the scorer all day everyday especially for this Knicks team. Under a different circumstance I might go a different route.

don't you think that just an arbitrary number without context behind it?

I mean you have to put that into context that he was a part time player that really didn't get he reigns until later in the season when his shot attempts and scoring rose with his incrased role/minutes.

Its not just about the high volume that bothers mean because there are high volume scorers like Lillard. The concerns are if the high volume also comes with low effeciency that is a horrible combination.

Hayes isn't some passive pass 1st pg like Prigioni either. He has translatable skills to be a good scorer in the NBA. Thats just not they eye test either, there are very sound stats to back that up.

Hayes got his reigns at the end of the season when the team waived the towel? Yeah sounds all too familiar. He wasn't good. Even as a playmaker he was an inefficient one. So he's not a playmaker like Lamelo, he's not a scorer like Cole, he's not a swiss army knife like Haliburton, he's just mediocre. No thank you!

[newyorker4ever]

Playmaking comes with efficiency too. Being awful in assist to turnover ratio doesn't make you a good playmaker. If you struggle scoring the ball then you better take care of the ball to be considered a good enough playmaker to warrant being the pick. Hayes is none of that, he's a turnover machine.

I agree 1.7 assist to turnover ratio isn't going to cut it. But many young playmaking guards improve as the continue to develop and the game slows down for them. That is an area where he needs to improve.

Hayes isn't the only one who has room to improve. He's just the one who has the most improving to do imo. Why take him?

But every single player will either improve a lot or a little or not at all and there's no way to know which ones will or won't so not sure how any of us can sit on here and talk like we have facts on which ones will and won't make it in the NBA because that's impossible for any of us to know. If any of us could then we could be making millions as the best GM to ever be a GM in the NBA. Hayes could become a star in the NBA and we would never know and that goes for Cole and Hali and every other kid taking that leap.

Sorry but i had to get that off my chest cause it just bothers the crap out of me when people talk in facts when it's impossible to have those facts. I can breath now...

[RHODEY]

I agree 1.7 assist to turnover ratio isn't going to cut it. But many young playmaking guards improve as the continue to develop and the game slows down for them. That is an area where he needs to improve.

Hayes isn't the only one who has room to improve. He's just the one who has the most improving to do imo. Why take him?

because if you take all of synergy's key offensive stats.

Killian Hayes:

scoring around the basket (68th percentile)
shooting off the dribble (84th percentile)
P&R scoring (70th percentile)
P&R passing (67th percentile)
ISO (70th percentile)

Cole Anthony:

scoring around the basket (2nd percentile) - yikes

shooting off the dribble (85th percentile)
P&R scoring (33rd percentile)

P&R passing (25th percentile)

ISO (61st percentile)

The only large difference where Cole knocks Hayes out of the boat is C&S/Spot Up jumpers. But if you are looking for that Haliburton is even better than both and he is a much much much better defender. So if we are looking for that type of guard that can just space the floor and playmake a little Haliburton is a better option.

[HEZI]

I agree 1.7 assist to turnover ratio isn't going to cut it. But many young playmaking guards improve as the continue to develop and the game slows down for them. That is an area where he needs to improve.

Hayes isn't the only one who has room to improve. He's just the one who has the most improving to do imo. Why take him?

But every single player will either improve a lot or a little or not at all and there's no way to know which ones will or won't so not sure how any of us can sit on here and talk like we have facts on which ones will and won't make it in the NBA because that's impossible for any of us to know. If any of us could then we could be making millions as the best GM to ever be a GM in the NBA. Hayes could become a star in the NBA and we would never know and that goes for Cole and Hali and every other kid taking that leap.

Sorry but i had to get that off my chest cause it just bothers the crap out of me when people talk in facts when it's impossible to have those facts. I can breath now...

Ok then, lock the thread up it serves no purpose to further discuss prospects because you know every single player will improve a lot a little or not at all and we don't know who that will be so there is nothing really to discuss.

I know you aren't new here so you should know by now how intense It gets here. This is nothing, it used to be way more live than this. Good times!

[HEZI]

This thread even got a mascot Parrot

Classic!

[knickstape21]

Not sure he’s been discussed, but Desmond Bane is a rock of a player. Little mix of Brogdon/Tucker to him.

[mpharris36]

Not sure he’s been discussed, but Desmond Bane is a rock of a player. Little mix of Brogdon/Tucker to him.

he's older so he probaly will slip in the the early 2nd round but man he played for Jamie Dixon at TCU so you know he will be tough and fundimentally sound. He is a sniper from deep. 3 straight years of +40% from 3.

He can defend his position and has an NBA 2 guard body.

I think he has a chance to have a Danny Green type role and impact in the NBA.

[RHODEY]

Chad Ford has his own website now and his big board is
1. Lamelo
2. Edwards
3. Wiseman
4. Hayes
5. Haliburton
6. Obi Toppin
7. Onyeka
8. Devin Vassell
9. Isaac Okoro
10. Patrick Williams
11. RJ Hampton
12. Aaron Nesmith
13. Kira Lewis
14. Coleslaw
15. Deni Avdjia

Too lazy to type down the rest
https://nbabigboard.com/

[8516knicks]

From his board - a name I haven't seen discussed on here - Malachai Flynn "He doesn’t fit the physical profile the NBA is looking for, but Flynn can flat out ball." If we pick around 7 and take Okongwo or Vassell, could he be our PG at 27? (and we could always shoot for next year on a PG also).

[HEZI]

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/cole-anthony-2020-nba-draft-profile-analysis/

Great read!

[HEZI]

Another great read

https://elitesportsny.com/2020/06/04/new-york-knicks-draft-profile-north-carolina-pg-cole-anthony/

Whether it be poor management or lackluster performance on the court, the New York Knicks have been mired in a tumultuous playoff slump over the past several seasons.Not only does the team lack a formidable attack on either end of the court, but a glaring identity crisis has consumed the team in recent years, further pressing the narrative that the Knicks can’t get over the hump.
Cole Anthony may just be the tenacious young spurt that the Knicks have been searching for. There may be concerns over picking a ball-dominant guard just one year after selecting RJ Barrett, but drafting a pass-first point guard and slotting them into a lineup that places in the bottom of the league in offensive efficiency isn’t the move. Taking a chance on Anthony’s raw ability as a scorer and giving the team an identity will be a surefire way to inject hope back into the franchise.

Last year’s hopes and dreams of landing Duke product Zion Williamson were all for naught, but greener pastures look to be on the horizon in the 2020 NBA Draft. Cole Anthony has all the tools to change the tide of the franchise and become the star Knicks fans have been yearning for.

[Fury]

Another great read

https://elitesportsny.com/2020/06/04/new-york-knicks-draft-profile-north-carolina-pg-cole-anthony/

Whether it be poor management or lackluster performance on the court, the New York Knicks have been mired in a tumultuous playoff slump over the past several seasons.Not only does the team lack a formidable attack on either end of the court, but a glaring identity crisis has consumed the team in recent years, further pressing the narrative that the Knicks can’t get over the hump.
Cole Anthony may just be the tenacious young spurt that the Knicks have been searching for. There may be concerns over picking a ball-dominant guard just one year after selecting RJ Barrett, but drafting a pass-first point guard and slotting them into a lineup that places in the bottom of the league in offensive efficiency isn’t the move. Taking a chance on Anthony’s raw ability as a scorer and giving the team an identity will be a surefire way to inject hope back into the franchise.

Last year’s hopes and dreams of landing Duke product Zion Williamson were all for naught, but greener pastures look to be on the horizon in the 2020 NBA Draft. Cole Anthony has all the tools to change the tide of the franchise and become the star Knicks fans have been yearning for.