2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[HarthorneWingo]

That moment when you realise 9 points for Cole is a bad game but it's 2 points away from BriKillian's season average

I'm with you on most of your calls but not on Cole. I don't see it. I don't see the decision making, I don't like his need for ball dominance, and I'm not sold on his shooting.

C'mon, let's get back to 'bout Halliburton.

Cole is a way better scorer than Haliburton that's why he's ahead of him. Haliburton is a fall back option. He's a system player and we don't even have a system or even a head coach. Would be nice to snatch both and run a two guard lineup with two of the best catch and shoot guards in the draft. Have RJ operate more inside the line. Dump Randle somewhere far from the Knicks.

[a-French-Fan]

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/podcasts/dane-moore-nba-podcast-jordan-taylor-on-his-teammate-theo-maledon-killian-hayes-film-review-w-will-deberg/

Good listen. BricKillian Hayes former teammate doesn't even think he's much better than Theo Maledon.

In 20 games before the Eurocup (not even EuroLeague but a weaker class of teams in which Hayes lead his team to a 1-10 record) BricKillian shot 22% from 3 on 2.75 attempts and made 0.6 three per game



BricKillian wasn't even his teams top scorer, they were lead by Zoran Dragic (Goran's brother).

Yeah so gonna have to say hard pass on this kid he aint it. Whoever wants to make the mistake of taking him at the top of the draft can go on and do so but Knicks can't afford to be that team. Do not need a Julius Randle type of shooter from the PG position, the team can only have so many lefties who can't shoot.

Dude doesn't even think Hayes is as good of a prospect as Sekou Doumbouya

1) Taylor played with Malédon, but had never played with Hayes. Before COVID, youth was getting the power in ASVEL (Malédon and Strazel)
2) Malédon is underrated since his injury in october, but his level is close to Hayes' level. Who is better? I don't know actually, so smart is the one who knows. BTW I maybe expect better NBA stats for Hayes, but I expect Malédon to be France's PG in the starting five for Paris 2024
3) Taylor would like to go back to ASVEL, so Imagine TP's reaction if Taylor would say "Hayes is clearly higher than Malédon"
4) Eurocup is not as good as Euroleague, but this is not Australian league ^^
5) Hayes' context was hard for his fist pro year, so he went to Ulm only to show up and making some stats. He did it. Ulm had not roster to play Eurocup.
6)I agree with you, there is a lot of garbage in Hayes' play, but he will clearly clean this. A point is that NBA game is more open than European game. I mean there is no defense zone, there is 3 sec defense rules, court is larger ... He clearly fit more US than European game
7) Hayes and Doumbouya are both all-star prospects, but that is more uncertain for Hayes
8) He would be a better choice for the Knicks than Ntilikina, but I saw how the Knicks dealt with him, so I don't wan't to see our 6th man for Paris 2024 going to the Knicks

Otherwise, I don't understand why so much hate for Hayes, even if he may be overrated.

[thebuzzardman]

Lamelo is the Knicks best chance at getting a star point guard though. even if the shooting needs to be improved he still comes with an elite playmaking package equipped with elite handles / floor IQ and has the ability to create with or without a pick and roll. That type of dynamic will get Knicks plenty open looks on the floor that they desperately need and he can do it decisively.

Part of the reason we were trash at shooting is because we never had any rhythm out there no real floor general that can create the necessary looks.

That's half true. The other half is that the Knicks just didn't have knock down shooters. Did they have just plain terrible shooters? No. But there's a difference between guys who are automatic when open (nearly) and guys who shoot ok, open or covered.

[-YogiBiz-]

LaMelo is the Knicks best chance at getting a star point guard though. even if the shooting needs to be improved he still comes with an elite playmaking package equipped with elite handles / floor IQ and has the ability to create with or without a pick and roll. That type of dynamic will get Knicks plenty open looks on the floor that they desperately need and he can do it decisively.

Part of the reason we were trash at shooting is because we never had any rhythm out there no real floor general that can create the necessary looks.

Ehh. I don't think LaMelo is going to strike near enough fear in defender's hearts to be an effective player. His shot is ugly and inconsistent, he is average at best when finishing (he lacks any kind of muscle on his frame and nobody is letting him get a shot up through contact cause of how weak he is). He doesn't even look like he's as good a shooter as his brother Lonzo was in HS and College. He's not even in the same city of defensive ability as his brother as well. He plays upright 80% of the time, and get's caught flat footed to often and is more focused with making a splashy play defensively, over making the right play. He has a really good stance when he engages though, keeping one foot lined up with the ball and his back foot always seems to be ready for the turn and go if he gets beat off the dribble. However, this stance is normally seen on players who lack the ideal foot quickness and it makes up for their inability to stay in front of ball handlers. He's too weak to body up against even smaller guards. He is one of the 10 tallest players in the NBL, really no other guard has business scoring on Ball in that league. His play making ability is exciting, but the rest of his game is years behind, and might only get up to average.

I do agree about the lack of Table setter being the main issue behind our terrible shooting, but ANOTHER non shooter clogging the paint is not the answer.

I don't understand why LaMelo gets a pass ("oh he'll be a better shooter over time so I don't worry" card) and Hayes get's dogged for having a ton of the same weaknesses. Average at best athleticism, lack of scoring efficiency, defensive awareness is suspect. I would prefer Haliburton's high floor vs these twos supposed high ceilings. Being frank, there is really nothing these two players do now that suggests they have a higher ceiling than Haliburton.

[god shammgod]

LaMelo is the Knicks best chance at getting a star point guard though. even if the shooting needs to be improved he still comes with an elite playmaking package equipped with elite handles / floor IQ and has the ability to create with or without a pick and roll. That type of dynamic will get Knicks plenty open looks on the floor that they desperately need and he can do it decisively.

Part of the reason we were trash at shooting is because we never had any rhythm out there no real floor general that can create the necessary looks.

Ehh. I don't think LaMelo is going to strike near enough fear in defender's hearts to be an effective player. His shot is ugly and inconsistent, he is average at best when finishing (he lacks any kind of muscle on his frame and nobody is letting him get a shot up through contact cause of how weak he is). He doesn't even look like he's as good a shooter as his brother Lonzo was in HS and College. He's not even in the same city of defensive ability as his brother as well. He plays upright 80% of the time, and get's caught flat footed to often and is more focused with making a splashy play defensively, over making the right play. He has a really good stance when he engages though, keeping one foot lined up with the ball and his back foot always seems to be ready for the turn and go if he gets beat off the dribble. However, this stance is normally seen on players who lack the ideal foot quickness and it makes up for their inability to stay in front of ball handlers. He's too weak to body up against even smaller guards. He is one of the 10 tallest players in the NBL, really no other guard has business scoring on Ball in that league. His play making ability is exciting, but the rest of his game is years behind, and might only get up to average.

I do agree about the lack of Table setter being the main issue behind our terrible shooting, but ANOTHER non shooter clogging the paint is not the answer.

I don't understand why LaMelo gets a pass ("oh he'll be a better shooter over time so I don't worry" card) and Hayes get's dogged for having a ton of the same weaknesses. Average at best athleticism, lack of scoring efficiency, defensive awareness is suspect. I would prefer Haliburton's high floor vs these twos supposed high ceilings. Being frank, there is really nothing these two players do now that suggests they have a higher ceiling than Haliburton.

that's why we don't want him. being frank.

[mpharris36]

Watch on YouTube

[god shammgod]

NO MORE FRANKS!!!!!!!!

[mpharris36]

NO MORE FRANKS!!!!!!!!

fine then no more of these either...

[god shammgod]

NO MORE FRANKS!!!!!!!!

fine then no more of these either...

cole has never been fat and can shoot. nothing like dennis really.

[mpharris36]

NO MORE FRANKS!!!!!!!!

fine then no more of these either...

cole has never been fat and can shoot. nothing like dennis really.

DSJ shot better from 3 than Cole Anthony did at college

[Deeeez Knicks]

NO MORE FRANKS!!!!!!!!

[King of Canada]

NO MORE FRANKS!!!!!!!!

[RHODEY]

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/podcasts/dane-moore-nba-podcast-jordan-taylor-on-his-teammate-theo-maledon-killian-hayes-film-review-w-will-deberg/

Good listen. BricKillian Hayes former teammate doesn't even think he's much better than Theo Maledon.

In 20 games before the Eurocup (not even EuroLeague but a weaker class of teams in which Hayes lead his team to a 1-10 record) BricKillian shot 22% from 3 on 2.75 attempts and made 0.6 three per game



BricKillian wasn't even his teams top scorer, they were lead by Zoran Dragic (Goran's brother).

Yeah so gonna have to say hard pass on this kid he aint it. Whoever wants to make the mistake of taking him at the top of the draft can go on and do so but Knicks can't afford to be that team. Do not need a Julius Randle type of shooter from the PG position, the team can only have so many lefties who can't shoot.

Dude doesn't even think Hayes is as good of a prospect as Sekou Doumbouya

1) Taylor played with Malédon, but had never played with Hayes. Before COVID, youth was getting the power in ASVEL (Malédon and Strazel)
2) Malédon is underrated since his injury in october, but his level is close to Hayes' level. Who is better? I don't know actually, so smart is the one who knows. BTW I maybe expect better NBA stats for Hayes, but I expect Malédon to be France's PG in the starting five for Paris 2024
3) Taylor would like to go back to ASVEL, so Imagine TP's reaction if Taylor would say "Hayes is clearly higher than Malédon"
4) Eurocup is not as good as Euroleague, but this is not Australian league ^^
5) Hayes' context was hard for his fist pro year, so he went to Ulm only to show up and making some stats. He did it. Ulm had not roster to play Eurocup.
6)I agree with you, there is a lot of garbage in Hayes' play, but he will clearly clean this. A point is that NBA game is more open than European game. I mean there is no defense zone, there is 3 sec defense rules, court is larger ... He clearly fit more US than European game
7) Hayes and Doumbouya are both all-star prospects, but that is more uncertain for Hayes
8) He would be a better choice for the Knicks than Ntilikina, but I saw how the Knicks dealt with him, so I don't wan't to see our 6th man for Paris 2024 going to the Knicks

Otherwise, I don't understand why so much hate for Hayes, even if he may be overrated.

I appreciate the solid post. I agree on many of your points - especially regarding his flaws being fixable. It's refreshing to hear about him from a Fresh persons perspective.

I do feel that Hayes' long term potential is underatted.

[RHODEY]

LaMelo is the Knicks best chance at getting a star point guard though. even if the shooting needs to be improved he still comes with an elite playmaking package equipped with elite handles / floor IQ and has the ability to create with or without a pick and roll. That type of dynamic will get Knicks plenty open looks on the floor that they desperately need and he can do it decisively.

Part of the reason we were trash at shooting is because we never had any rhythm out there no real floor general that can create the necessary looks.

Ehh. I don't think LaMelo is going to strike near enough fear in defender's hearts to be an effective player. His shot is ugly and inconsistent, he is average at best when finishing (he lacks any kind of muscle on his frame and nobody is letting him get a shot up through contact cause of how weak he is). He doesn't even look like he's as good a shooter as his brother Lonzo was in HS and College. He's not even in the same city of defensive ability as his brother as well. He plays upright 80% of the time, and get's caught flat footed to often and is more focused with making a splashy play defensively, over making the right play. He has a really good stance when he engages though, keeping one foot lined up with the ball and his back foot always seems to be ready for the turn and go if he gets beat off the dribble. However, this stance is normally seen on players who lack the ideal foot quickness and it makes up for their inability to stay in front of ball handlers. He's too weak to body up against even smaller guards. He is one of the 10 tallest players in the NBL, really no other guard has business scoring on Ball in that league. His play making ability is exciting, but the rest of his game is years behind, and might only get up to average.

I do agree about the lack of Table setter being the main issue behind our terrible shooting, but ANOTHER non shooter clogging the paint is not the answer.

I don't understand why LaMelo gets a pass ("oh he'll be a better shooter over time so I don't worry" card) and Hayes get's dogged for having a ton of the same weaknesses. Average at best athleticism, lack of scoring efficiency, defensive awareness is suspect. I would prefer Haliburton's high floor vs these twos supposed high ceilings. Being frank, there is really nothing these two players do now that suggests they have a higher ceiling than Haliburton.

Hayes gets dogged because he's somewhat of an enigma and doesn't seem to have a sexy game. He's a San Antonio Spurs type of Player...

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[-YogiBiz-]

Read on Twitter

I am not entirely shocked by this. I have sort of soured on Cole. I like his two way potential a lot, but Kira looks better right now with a more pronounced athletic upside.

[3toheadmelo]

When was the last time a player shot 38% from the field or worse in college and turned out to be a star?

[Deeeez Knicks]

The allure will Cole seems to be that he has a ton of upside, but I dont know if I really see that. Seems like its all based on reputation.

It's not really a great draft to be picking 6 to 10. Hayes would be my guy, but not sure he will be there. As much as I want to swing for the fence, I don't see a ton of great upside picks in that range. The grill is covered in Frank's and hard to find any decent looking steaks.

Starting to come around on the idea of RJ Hampton as an upside pick. He has been mentioned and I was not a fan originally. The fear is he may end up being the next Exum, but he is insanely quick and has a lot of talent. Looks like he will at least be a good scoring guard with upside for more. Like LaMelo, it's tough comparing him to college kids since he went overseas to play against grown men. But the talent and athletiscm is there. You can't teach speed and it can be a major weapon. Starting to change my mind about him.

Poku is another guy with probably more upside then most in our range, but just a lot of unknown/risk.

Hampton and Poku are more like raw steaks, but if we cook them right could be a nice meal in this draft.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Read on Twitter

Kira is a year younger too

[mpharris36]

Yeah if I wanted an offensive minded PG I think I would lean to Kira Lewis over Cole Anthony. Kira outplayed Cole is pretty much every facet of the game.

Kira has a quick first step and gets into the paint more often and finishes around the basket better. He does lack some "true pg" abilities but he is lightning quick and there shooting abilities are pretty similar from the outside.