How good were the Pistons with Isaiah?

Nbabrothers · Post #1 » by **Nbabrothers** » Wed Jun 3, 2020 9:46 pm

They were the only team in history to defeat the Larry Bird Celtics, Michael Jordan Bulls and Magic Johnson Lakers.

Post #2 » by **Snakebites** » Wed Jun 3, 2020 11:16 pm

Who's Isaiah?

Canadafan · Post #3 » by **Canadafan** » Thu Jun 4, 2020 2:58 am

Snakebites wrote:Who's Isaiah?

Ya this always been one of my pet peeves lol. Not a big deal but soooo many people spell it wrong.

Post #4 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Jun 4, 2020 3:00 am

Canadafan wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Who's Isaiah?

Ya this always been one of my pet peeves lol. Not a big deal but soooo many people spell it wrong.

In fairness the extra A is by far the more common way to spell it. Thomas might be the only one I know that is missing the second A.

pistons4ever · Post #5 » by **pistons4ever** » Thu Jun 4, 2020 3:31 am

He misses the first A

ISIAH

Billl · Post #6 » by **Billl** » Thu Jun 4, 2020 2:04 pm

I voted top 10. They were a great team, but they had a short peak.

NYPiston · Post #7 » by **NYPiston** » Thu Jun 4, 2020 5:01 pm

Billl wrote:I voted top 10. They were a great team, but they had a short peak.

So did the Bird Celtics yet everybody talks about them as one of the best dynasties of all time and they never won back to back. Most dynasties peak at 5 years or so.

They could have EASILY won 3 championships in a row beating Bird once and Magic and Jordan multiple times. I know, woulda coulda shoulda but if they don't call the phantom foul on Laimbeer, we're talking about one of the greatest dynasties of all time but now with only the back to back Championships people talk about them as a mere nuisance that broke up the Bird, Magic to Jordan glamour party when in reality, they were just as good as most of those teams. In the shot clock era, I'd say the only teams I'd put ahead of The Bad Boys are the '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers and '96 Bulls. The Warriors wouldn't have been able to free wheel in the late 80s, early 90s although Durant would get his in any era.
The '89 Pistons are top 5 for me.

Billl · Post #8 » by **Billl** » Thu Jun 4, 2020 5:58 pm

NYPiston wrote:
Billl wrote:I voted top 10. They were a great team, but they had a short peak.

So did the Bird Celtics yet everybody talks about them as one of the best dynasties of all time and they never won back to back. Most dynasties peak at 5 years or so.

They could have EASILY won 3 championships in a row beating Bird once and Magic and Jordan multiple times. I know, woulda coulda shoulda but if they don't call the phantom foul on Laimbeer, we're talking about one of the greatest dynasties of all time but now with only the back to back Championships people talk about them as a mere nuisance that broke up the Bird, Magic to Jordan glamour party when in reality, they were just as good as most of those teams. In the shot clock era, I'd say the only teams I'd put ahead of The Bad Boys are the '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers and '96 Bulls. The Warriors wouldn't have been able to free wheel in the late 80s, early 90s although Durant would get his in any era.
The '89 Pistons are top 5 for me.

That celtics team won 3 and had 2 other trips to the finals mixed in.

If you want to play woulda coulda shoulda - Magic got hurt. Bird could barely walk with his back. Those are much bigger handicaps than a bag call.

Hey, I love that pistons team, but they had a really short peak. That 89 team was old - bill 32, edwards 34, aguire 30, vinnie 33, mahorn 31,long 33. We really went all in with vets to get over the hump. It paid off, but it also meant we weren't going to stay up there long.

NYPiston · Post #9 » by **NYPiston** » Thu Jun 4, 2020 6:13 pm

Billl wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
Billl wrote:I voted top 10. They were a great team, but they had a short peak.

That celtics team won 3 and had 2 other trips to the finals mixed in.

If you want to play woulda coulda shoulda - Magic got hurt. Bird could barely walk with his back. Those are much bigger handicaps than a bag call.

Hey, I love that pistons team, but they had a really short peak. That 89 team was old - bill 32, edwards 34, aguire 30, vinnie 33, mahorn 31,long 33. We really went all in with vets to get over the hump. It paid off, but it also meant we weren't going to stay up there long.

Magic got hurt after the Pistons spanked the Lakers in Game 1 and then went up 2-0. It was kind of like Bulls-Pistons in '91, the older Pistons were injured but they had no chance.
The Pistons had more woudla coulda shoulda too. Lots of bad breaks/injuries that prevented an even stronger dynasty. "Steal by Bird", Dantley/Johnson collision in Game 7 in '87, Isiah injury in Game 7 in '88. Even '91 the injuries were piling up and Isiah wasn't the same when he came back from the wrist injury although the Bulls would have beat them anyway.
The Pistons lost 1 game in the two final series they won and were very unlucky to not win another title and go to another Finals in '87. It was a short peak but it was a hell of a peak during an all time great era of basketball.

My point about the Celtics is that it was a short peak too... '81-'86. By '87, injuries started to pile up.
The Pistons had a good 5 year run as well. Eh, probably more like 4. The '91 team was on decline. '87-'90 was a hell of a run though.

Manocad · Post #10 » by **Manocad** » Fri Jun 5, 2020 12:56 am

I don't know if you can properly judge one team against another since there are rule changes, "unwritten" rule changes, i.e. refs calling more fouls in order to make the game have a more offensive focus, style changes, etc. If you look at a list of teams by most number of wins during the regular season that also won the championship, the 1989 team would be #18. I'm ok with that.

Pharaoh · Post #11 » by **Pharaoh** » Fri Jun 5, 2020 7:16 am

Snakebites wrote:
Canadafan wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Who's Isaiah?

Ya this always been one of my pet peeves lol. Not a big deal but soooo many people spell it wrong.

In fairness the extra A is by far the more common way to spell it. Thomas might be the only one I know that is missing the second A.

My youngest son's name is Isiah

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

flow · Post #12 » by **flow** » Fri Jun 5, 2020 7:49 pm

Billl wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
Billl wrote:I voted top 10. They were a great team, but they had a short peak.

So did the Bird Celtics yet everybody talks about them as one of the best dynasties of all time and they never won back to back. Most dynasties peak at 5 years or so.

They could have EASILY won 3 championships in a row beating Bird once and Magic and Jordan multiple times. I know, woulda coulda shoulda but if they don't call the phantom foul on Laimbeer, we're talking about one of the greatest dynasties of all time but now with only the back to back Championships people talk about them as a mere nuisance that broke up the Bird, Magic to Jordan glamour party when in reality, they were just as good as most of those teams. In the shot clock era, I'd say the only teams I'd put ahead of The Bad Boys are the '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers and '96 Bulls. The Warriors wouldn't have been able to free wheel in the late 80s, early 90s although Durant would get his in any era.
The '89 Pistons are top 5 for me.

That celtics team won 3 and had 2 other trips to the finals mixed in.

If you want to play woulda coulda shoulda - Magic got hurt. Bird could barely walk with his back. Those are much bigger handicaps than a bag call.

Hey, I love that pistons team, but they had a really short peak. That 89 team was old - bill 32, edwards 34, aguire 30, vinnie 33, mahorn 31,long 33. We really went all in with vets to get over the hump. It paid off, but it also meant we weren't going to stay up there long.

I don't know. Depends how you define peak. For me, they had a 4 year peak, which isn't that short. 1987-1990. I'd rank those teams as follows:

1. 1988
2. 1987/1989 Tie
4. 1990

That 1987 team is criminally overlooked. They had Boston beat twice in the ECF. First, Isiah throws the infamous pass to Bird at the end of game 5 (would have been up 3-2 heading back to pontiac), then Dantley/Johnson collide and knock each other out of the game in the 2nd half of Game 7.

They should have had 4 straight finals appearances and 3 straight rings. Magic getting hurt in the '89 series did nothing to the series except give Lakers fans an excuse to create. They had no chance regardless. Isiah's injury in game 6 of '88 was far more impactful than Magic's injury in '89. They did miss Byron Scott in the '89 series, though.

Canadafan · Post #13 » by **Canadafan** » Sat Jun 6, 2020 1:17 pm

flow wrote:
Billl wrote:
NYPiston wrote:
So did the Bird Celtics yet everybody talks about them as one of the best dynasties of all time and they never won back to back. Most dynasties peak at 5 years or so.

They could have EASILY won 3 championships in a row beating Bird once and Magic and Jordan multiple times. I know, woulda coulda shoulda but if they don't call the phantom foul on Laimbeer, we're talking about one of the greatest dynasties of all time but now with only the back to back Championships people talk about them as a mere nuisance that broke up the Bird, Magic to Jordan glamour party when in reality, they were just as good as most of those teams. In the shot clock era, I'd say the only teams I'd put ahead of The Bad Boys are the '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers and '96 Bulls. The Warriors wouldn't have been able to free wheel in the late 80s, early 90s although Durant would get his in any era.
The '89 Pistons are top 5 for me.

That celtics team won 3 and had 2 other trips to the finals mixed in.

If you want to play woulda coulda shoulda - Magic got hurt. Bird could barely walk with his back. Those are much bigger handicaps than a bag call.

Hey, I love that pistons team, but they had a really short peak. That 89 team was old - bill 32, edwards 34, aguire 30, vinnie 33, mahorn 31,long 33. We really went all in with vets to get over the hump. It paid off, but it also meant we weren't going to stay up there long.

I don't know. Depends how you define peak. For me, they had a 4 year peak, which isn't that short. 1987-1990. I'd rank those teams as follows:

1. 1988
2. 1987/1989 Tie
4. 1990

That 1987 team is criminally overlooked. They had Boston beat twice in the ECF. First, Isiah throws the infamous pass to Bird at the end of game 5 (would have been up 3-2 heading back to pontiac), then Dantley/Johnson collide and knock each other out of the game in the 2nd half of Game 7.

They should have had 4 straight finals appearances and 3 straight rings. Magic getting hurt in the '89 series did nothing to the series except give Lakers fans an excuse to create. They had no chance regardless. Isiah's injury in game 6 of '88 was far more impactful than Magic's injury in '89. They did miss Byron Scott in the '89 series, though.

I was young at the time and had just started becoming a fan but for some reason I always have the thought of Kevin McHales foot being clearly on the 3pt line but they gave hime 3pts anyways. Anyone remember this at all and if it was that same 87 series?

Uncle Mxy · Post #14 » by **Uncle Mxy** » Sat Jun 6, 2020 1:34 pm

The Isaiah Morris year was marred by Isiah installing coach Ron Rothstein in retaliation for Chuck Daly's Olympic snub. Clearly, no one could see just what a talent we had on his hands. "Butch" ended up playing professionally for 15 years, once he left the toxic NBA scene. We should mourn what might have been, if circumstances were different.

Seriously, am I the only one who remembers having an Isiah and an Isaiah on the same team?

Manocad · Post #15 » by **Manocad** » Mon Jun 8, 2020 4:33 am

Uncle Mxy wrote:The Isaiah Morris year was marred by Isiah installing coach Ron Rothstein in retaliation for Chuck Daly's Olympic snub. Clearly, no one could see just what a talent we had on his hands. "Butch" ended up playing professionally for 15 years, once he left the toxic NBA scene. We should mourn what might have been, if circumstances were different.

Seriously, am I the only one who remembers having an Isiah and an Isaiah on the same team?

Quite cheeky

Warspite · Post #16 » by **Warspite** » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:49 am

IMHO the 1987 Pistons were better than any of the Championship teams.

Uncle Mxy · Post #17 » by **Uncle Mxy** » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:03 am

Warspite wrote:IMHO the 1987 Pistons were better than any of the Championship teams.

What makes them better than the 1988 Pistons?

flow · Post #18 » by **flow** » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:34 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:
Warspite wrote:IMHO the 1987 Pistons were better than any of the Championship teams.

What makes them better than the 1988 Pistons?

He said championship teams.

Uncle Mxy · Post #19 » by **Uncle Mxy** » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:10 pm

Yeah, I know what he said. But, 1988 has Buddha, has Dumars/Rodman/Salley being another year better and them getting to the Finals (and being robbed by the phantom foul/Kareem's travel), etc. I'd take 1988 over 1987.

flow · Post #20 » by **flow** » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:33 pm

Uncle Mxy wrote:Yeah, I know what he said. But, 1988 has Buddha, has Dumars/Rodman/Salley being another year better and them getting to the Finals (and being robbed by the phantom foul/Kareem's travel), etc. I'd take 1988 over 1987.

I probably would, too. But I think he's spotlighting '87 because it's an overlooked & under-appreciated team due to not making the finals. The '88 team is talked about all the time.

Pistons team all time