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Around the MLB

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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#481 » by polo007 » Wed Jun 3, 2020 3:22 am

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In the counter proposal from the players on Sunday, the union embraced the owners’ idea of regional realignment, which means the traditional National and American leagues would remain intact but only within each region.

In the new East, each of the 10 AL and NL East teams would play only each other; the same for the Central with its 10 AL and NL Central teams; and in the West with its 10 AL and NL West teams, according to industry sources with direct knowledge of the proposal.

Games would be played in the teams’ ballparks without fans. Standings would be kept within each division and league to determine which teams would qualify for an expanded playoff system, one which would likely include seven teams from each league.

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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#482 » by The_Hater » Thu Jun 4, 2020 4:47 pm

Looks like the owners have rejected the players proposal and don’t even plan to make a counter proposal.

Time after time no professional sports league does a better job of killing both its present and future than Major League Baseball. There won’t be any baseball this season because to many people clearly don’t want their to be any baseball this season.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#483 » by Schad » Thu Jun 4, 2020 8:50 pm

It's in large part a reflection of the fact that MLB is the one major professional sports league where the owners have not broken the back of the union. The NFL, NBA and NHL all have really unfavourable CBA terms for the players; MLB doesn't. MLB would really like to have them, and sees this as a foot in the door. The MLBPA recognizes that.

There's a not-insignificant chance that this won't be the only year without baseball in the next few.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#484 » by GoRapstheoriginal » Thu Jun 4, 2020 9:17 pm

Am I the only one that thinks there should be a salary cap in baseball/MLB?
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#485 » by Schad » Thu Jun 4, 2020 10:27 pm

I'm fine with a salary cap if MLB vastly increased the compensation of its minor leaguers and eliminates the advantage of team control. But if they want a free market where they can barely compensate the majority of their employees for 3-7 years (and then have another 6 years of underpaying them once they make the majors), then they get a free market when those players finally reach a point where they have leverage.

But MLB doesn't want that. They want to pay minor leaguers nothing, pay team-controlled major leaguers next to nothing, and then have a salary cap that greatly diminishes the earning power of veteran players, too. MLB is also strongly against a (high) salary floor, which is the only way to make a cap slightly fair, because it then guarantees both the players and owners a certain share of revenues. And **** a system designed to enrich the owners at the expense of the people who actually do the baseball thing.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#486 » by polo007 » Sat Jun 6, 2020 10:13 pm

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There are simple solutions for baseball's return. They're right there, waiting for owners and players to embrace before the parties unleash more damage on the sport.

Already they have taken what could have been a triumphant return and dragged it through a swamp of pride and avarice and obduracy. In the middle of a pandemic. As cities around the country burn. With more than 40 million unemployed. It is myopic, and it is time for it to stop.

Because the answer is clear. All of this -- this gridlock and inability to get anywhere close to a return-to-play deal -- is a fight over a few hundred million dollars.

If that seems like a paltry amount in the grand scheme of baseball economics, that's because it is. In a typical year, Major League Baseball generates around $10 billion in revenue. While hundreds of millions of dollars isn't exactly a rounding error, it is also not the sort of money worth piloting an industry into a full-on labor war.


What's about to come is slightly math-intensive, but it illustrates exactly what's at stake and why a peaceful resolution is not only possible but imperative. It relies on numbers that are generally accepted by both sides, a rarity considering the rampant distrust that has turned negotiations thus far into a stalemate. It requires compromise, which will be crucial to avoid the severely shortened season MLB can impose unilaterally per its March 26 agreement with the MLB Players Association.

First, we must start with two true premises.

1. MLB is willing to pay players a full prorated share of their salaries over a 48-game season.

2. The MLBPA is willing to play an 82-game season at a full prorated share of players' salaries.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#487 » by polo007 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:14 am

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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#488 » by Schad » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:13 pm

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Man, we've reached the stage where the Red Sox are acknowledging that their fans shout racial abuse at black players, these really are the end times.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#489 » by polo007 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:34 pm

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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#490 » by dagger » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:21 pm

More scathing commentary about MLB and its grasp for defeat.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29302203

Buster Olney
ESPN Senior Writer

What we'll call the Jeff Luhnow mentality could be defined as the absolute devotion to gleaning every fragment of advantage, every bit of efficiency, regardless of whether you might drift beyond the bounds of common sense. The ends justify the means; just win the moment, baby.

It's as if Major League Baseball's leadership has embraced the Luhnow mindset in these tortuous labor negotiations, because the owners keep making these absurdly incremental offers at a time when the broader international context calls for decisive and bold action. With a resolution now at least three weeks too late, and counting, the industry is becoming a punchline for sports dysfunction, following antecedents like "the Knicks," "Tonya Harding" and "butt fumble." Every bit of news on America's pastime these days seems to begin with the phrase: "And then there's baseball ..."It's the Luhnow mindset as applied to labor relations.

Under Luhnow, the Houston Astros were the sport's supreme practitioners of tanking, becoming the first team since the 1962-65 Mets to lose at least 106 games in three consecutive seasons. In Luhnow's first three seasons as Houston GM, the Astros spent a total of $137.4 million in payroll -- $53 million less than the next-lowest team, the Pirates ($190.7 million). The Astros drew a 0.0 in local television ratings for consecutive seasons. They manipulated the service time of some of their best young players, as did other teams. Luhnow's team engaged in ultra, next-level sign-stealing, and traded for Roberto Osuna fresh off his 75-game suspension under the sport's domestic violence policy.

But so long as the math made sense, Luhnow pushed the envelope and the Astros won a World Series in 2017. Of course, in the big picture, Luhnow's management turned out to be a disaster for many reasons besides wins and losses. Under his watch, the Astros helped to drag the sport under a low bar of credibility as other teams tried to replicate his formula, with fans left to wonder if what they paid to see was farcical.

Throughout those years, which included Luhnow giving the OK for a club employee to monitor the opposing dugout from an adjacent camera well, you kept waiting for someone to step up and lead. You kept waiting for someone to acknowledge the astounding accumulation of damage to good-faith competition and operation, just as you keep on waiting for someone on the owners' side to end this embarrassing negotiation with the players' association, rather than engaging in this battle of reconstituted Spam offers.

The house of baseball is burning and somebody needs to put out the fire immediately, by making a deal that moves the sport forward beyond this absurd fight over increments.

The opportunity to own the sporting stage in early July is gone. The potential goodwill (and ratings) all but certain for the first big sport out of the gate may be all but squandered.


Chicago Cubs owner Tom Ricketts talking about a cash-flow problem when tens of millions of people have lost their jobs? Not good. Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt, who has seen the value of his franchise multiply by at least a factor of 10, talking about how you can't make money in baseball? Not goodAt a time when some people are struggling to apply for unemployment benefits, nobody wants to hear about the quandaries of billionaires. Nobody should ever hear about minor leaguers having their salaries slashed, in the way that the Washington Nationals and Oakland Athletics intended to do.

But here we are, and the longer this impasse lasts, the more resentful that fans get, as the owners haggle over amounts of money which, when measured against their collective wealth, are pathetically small -- certainly not worth rendering long-term damage to the sport.

The owners don't have a monopoly on shortsightedness, by the way. The union leadership has pushed dominoes that helped lead to this moment through its lack of engagement over the past five years, with the two sides fueling the deterioration of their working relationship into a death spiral. Long before this current situation, MLB Players Association executive director Tony Clark has almost uniformly responded to proposals about everything from pace-of-play initiatives to labor overtures with a hard no. Not, "let's talk about that," or "let's get in a room and kick this around" -- but a flat rejection.

In lieu of dialogue, MLB has seemingly become more frustrated, more draconian in its actions, and the two sides are building nothing together. The two sides are growing nothing. The golden goose they own together is seemingly absorbing significant damage that will inevitably be reflected in the diminished revenues of owners and players.Many agents fear that while it's very possible that the players might think they will win this moment, because of how they've been unified, there will be virtually no long-term gain for the standoff. The conditions for the pool of what could turn out to be 300-plus free agents in the fall haven't been addressed or improved through agreement. The leverage of this time might've been parlayed to attack larger issues that have hurt the players -- tanking, service-time manipulation, etc. -- but that hasn't happened, and given that the two sides aren't really on speaking terms, hasn't even been explored. In the same way that agents were immediately livid about what they saw as disastrous CBA terms in 2016, they view this chapter as a missed opportunity that will ultimately bear long-term costs because of the lack of productive collaboration and the destruction to baseball.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#491 » by polo007 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:21 pm

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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#492 » by Schad » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:35 am

MLB also leaked to the media that players and staff had tested positive for COVID. I don't know how anyone could have sympathy with their position on this...their actions seem to be solely about priming the pumps for the next big labour fight.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#493 » by BigLeagueChew » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:20 am

https://www.tsn.ca/travis-shaw-on-mlb-negotiations-this-is-a-joke-1.1486319?fbclid=IwAR2cGQGCX5i1rIUTNsyajv9iv6BRvjHJOY4M05wgqe9SAGILXbUgrKjKYlU

Here's hoping a bunch of players get together on the field of dreams to remind people what baseball is about. Not happening, I know.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#494 » by fbalmeida » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:30 am

The MLB has been the worst run major professional sports league since the mid 80s, but I say that a salary cap is long overdue.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#495 » by BigLeagueChew » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:21 pm

Report: More than 8 MLB owners don't want a season in 2020

"There are definitely more than eight owners who don’t want to play," a player agent said, according to Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic.

It's been reported that Manfred has the authority to implement a shortened schedule with the expected length running between 50-60 games (a theoretical 48-game schedule is not being considered). However, after the players rejected the most recent proposal from the league, Manfred is apparently reluctant to impose his schedule because it may result in a grievance from the union.

Manfred needs support from 75% of owners (23) to unilaterally implement the schedule.



For now, the season remains up in the air. Players have voiced their displeasure with the negotiations, and it's expected that the acrimony during these discussions could have a far-reaching effect on CBA negotiations after the 2021 campaign.


https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1977514
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#496 » by polo007 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:02 pm

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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#497 » by Schad » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:24 pm

fbalmeida wrote:The MLB has been the worst run major professional sports league since the mid 80s, but I say that a salary cap is long overdue.
Gentlemen: now you know how I feel.


Here's the problem: MLB doesn't want a salary cap similar to what the NBA has. The NBA gets a large share of its cash from national contracts, has robust revenue sharing, and a really high salary floor. There's an escrow system in place to ensure that neither the players nor the owners get significantly more than their designated percentage. As a result, while I think that the percentage the players receive is too low, the system in the broadest sense is fair.

MLB wants a salary cap to be a means to drive down wages, and that's it. They want to guarantee that the teams with no fans are profitable while doing nothing to redistribute the profits of the wealthy teams, and with no guarantees for the players. They want what the NFL has: a system where the vast majority of players are badly undercompensated for their efforts and the owners have few obligations to bargain equitably.

I can't support that. The owners are the ones who pocketed the expansion fees when handing franchises out to locales that couldn't financially support them; their bad investments aren't the players' responsibility to fix, especially when the same owners crying poor have watched their franchises increase severalfold in value.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#498 » by vaff87 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:26 pm

Each side better get their **** together, because I don’t think the MLB can afford to cancel this season and/or have a strike/lockout after next year. They can’t afford to lose the fans they’ll lose from that.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#499 » by Schad » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:16 pm

It'll definitely be ugly. I'm curious whether the owners are noticing that the media hasn't taken the both-sides bait to the extent that they normally do; sure, there has been some of it, but The Athletic in particular, and even some of the journos for the big outlets, have been quite critical of the rather cynical line that the owners have taken here.
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Re: Around the MLB 2019 

Post#500 » by dagger » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:49 pm

Looks like Manfred got the message and went to sit down with the union. Deal is close, seems like there will be a season
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