dougthonus wrote:MrSparkle wrote:Yeah. I think there is a type of player good teams pursue that are basically "two-way qualified." Of course not everyone is Kawhi or Jordan.
Even the lotto/tank Warriors, you look up and down their roster of G-League players, and they actually intentionally still loaded up on what I consider two-way players. Athletic, big, multi-position defenders; some semblance of handling and shooting skill. Looney, Paschall, Poole, Lee.
Not saying they're great. On the other hand, you saw that they can be impact players in finals games (Looney's case), and the Warriors scrap-heap after the ACLs was still pretty competitive against the strong finals Raptors. But there is a significant difference in that type of player, and then a Kornet, Shaq, Dunn, Lauri, Wendell and Gafford. Or Doug, Noah, Boozer, Asik, etc. To make it really straight-forward and simple; Warriors, Heat, Lakers, Raptors, Clippers mostly bought stock in wings or tweeners with frame/mobility and crossover skills, as opposed to points or bigs with one-position skills.
And I think the pay-off is better with those types of players.
Same with the Lakers. Even at their old age... they have wings and tweeners comprising 75% of the roster. The least money they spent went towards their old vet min centers and PG who were all-stars in the game NBA Live 07.
I'd say Thad is like 1/2 the way there, though quite stiff with the ball. Otto and Hutchinson are the only guys I can say with confidence are that type of 2-player wing with versatility mobility and size... and Hutch just seems a step slow and mediocre in every attribute.
I think if you replace 2 way players with multi-positional players then that's more accurate. The Bulls definitely have not loaded up on versatile players position wise.
Right, but wouldn't you say the idea of a multi-positional player is both their ability to defend atleast 1 position while also having the offensive skill-set of at least 2 positions? IMO "multi-position" is the next evolutionary upgrade of a 2-way player.
For example, let's look at Doug. He was (kind of) a multi-position player in college. He could kind of score like a perimeter guard shooter, handle the ball like your average wing, got a lot of his NCAA buckets like a Dirk style PF post-up scorer. He had the offensive skill of both forward positions, so he ticked that box even though it didn't work in the NBA.... he was too short to post and too slow to dribble in iso (and for whatever reason just not very good off-the-ball or in catch-and-shoot)... But the biggest problem was he couldn't defend either forward position, let alone guards. So of course he was not a 2-way player, but let alone a multi-position player in the NBA. More like the dreaded 'no-position' player! I feel like GarPax made this mistake one too many times with their NBA picks, particularly late ones that had little chance of panning out into impact NBA players (way back to Bairstow to Murphy, Doug of course, Valentine, Niko and Lauri in some regard), because they were at risk of not being able to adequately defend 1 position, let alone 2+, while also being fairly mediocre offensive threats.
So take Looney for example. He isn't great at any one thing, he's a late draft pick and a pretty unspectacular player in every regard. But he does check the box of being able to serviceable defend centers, PFs, possibly switch onto wings. He can clean up in the paint like a traditional garbage big man. He can also make the occasional open 3P like a shooting wing.
Take Paschall for example. An undersized PF, who weighs quite a lot (255 lb.). He does check a few boxes though: he has the athleticism and weight to box out and clean up in the paint like your usual garbage man big, he can laterally hang with wings on the perimeter. Offensively, he doesn't shoot well but he does have a solid form, and while he didn't shoot a clip, he did prove to be some sort of a 3P threat (0.6/2.2), which again, isn't good, but it's certainly not Gafford/Carter. Otherwise you can go back to his college reel and see that he's an entirely mobile offensive PF, with decent handles, shooting touch and passing awareness. Basically poor man's Dray, and a very good #41 pick as opposed to a guy like Jordan Bell (who didn't work out for anybody in the end.. zero offensive skill and bad attitude won't make up for incredible athleticism and defensive potential).
I do think now that AK is here, being a multi-position player himself back in the day (a lanky forward with dribble/shoot skills), he's going to bring in more of those types of new-gen. prospects. That Denver roster, besides for Jokic who is an offensive superstar, everybody has an athletic build and mobility to defend atleast 2 positions, and everybody has at least a serviceable shooting/dribbling skill. There are no raging "1-way liabilities" like Valentine, Dunn/Shaq, Zach, Lauri (let alone the small guards forced to defend SFs due to Otto/Hutch's injuries) etc.
