pipfan wrote:I run a school with about 100 teachers. We are online now, but in August we will be back on campus. If a teacher says "even with the safety precautions, I don't feel safe in returning" I would find a new teacher and let that one go. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Why are these guys different?
Teachers at most schools are pretty easily replaced. The top .000001% of basketball players aren't. There's a reason there's a salary gap here.
The league will still make good money, even if a couple of top basketball players decline to show up. Overall team talent would drop, but most of the money will still be rolling in, when you add a 12th man
Short term sure. But over the next 4-5 years a drop of a few key valuable players hurts the league's quality overall and popularity could drop (hard to say if it does or doesn't). A 12th man replacing a 6th man is a HUGE drop off for a playoff team though. That's very easily the difference in a title or not many years. I know fans focus on the stars, but there have been countless titles that would have swung had key bench players not been available.
C3H6N6O6 wrote:That is fine but those NBA players should be ready to lose a significant portion of their salary for doing it.
If NBA players are really serious then all of them should sit out because a lot of them have families. I just know that those same NBA players will not be happy losing money when NBA will lose money too.
You have to choose. It is not like NBA players are poor. Cancel the season and play the next one from December.
why should the players lose their salary? These guys have guaranteed contracts and should not be forced to play during a pandemic if they choose. This doesn’t just effect the players, but they also have to worry about their families health. If someone like Joe Ingles decides not to play, he shouldn’t be penalized. Players deserve the right to choose.
I don’t understand why people side with the owners regarding salary. A player getting paid has zero effect on the fans. The owners have an enormous amount of money, if they sign a guy to a guaranteed contract, they’re obligated to pay the full amount.
levon wrote:Was there really no other place to do this? How much of this was throwing a bone to ESPN's parent conglomerate versus actual logistical concerns?
I feel like if they truly put personnel health first, they wouldn't be doing this in such a stupid state where the citizens have been roaming freely since early on yet if a player or hell, camera person steps outside they're at risk of losing their job.
Isolated is isolated no matter where it is. I don’t think it’s an issue w/ the location itself as much as the not being allowed to go anywhere else for that long. The hotels will be pleasant I’m sure, but it can cause stir craziness after so long to not be able to go anywhere else.
C3H6N6O6 wrote:That is fine but those NBA players should be ready to lose a significant portion of their salary for doing it.
If NBA players are really serious then all of them should sit out because a lot of them have families. I just know that those same NBA players will not be happy losing money when NBA will lose money too.
You have to choose. It is not like NBA players are poor. Cancel the season and play the next one from December.
why should the players lose their salary? These guys have guaranteed contracts and should not be forced to play during a pandemic if they choose. This doesn’t just effect the players, but they also have to worry about their families health. If someone like Joe Ingles decides not to play, he shouldn’t be penalized. Players deserve the right to choose.
I don’t understand why people side with the owners regarding salary. A player getting paid has zero effect on the fans. The owners have an enormous amount of money, if they sign a guy to a guaranteed contract, they’re obligated to pay the full amount.
Contracts are guaranteed for injury, but not everything. Further, there is a Force Majeure provision in the labor contract that has kicked in. The owners lawyers aren't stupid.
"I'd rather have Kevin Love spacing out to the three point line than anything (Karl) Malone brings"
dhsilv2 wrote: Teachers at most schools are pretty easily replaced. The top .000001% of basketball players aren't. There's a reason there's a salary gap here.
The league will still make good money, even if a couple of top basketball players decline to show up. Overall team talent would drop, but most of the money will still be rolling in, when you add a 12th man
Short term sure. But over the next 4-5 years a drop of a few key valuable players hurts the league's quality overall and popularity could drop (hard to say if it does or doesn't). A 12th man replacing a 6th man is a HUGE drop off for a playoff team though. That's very easily the difference in a title or not many years. I know fans focus on the stars, but there have been countless titles that would have swung had key bench players not been available.
We fans will definitely lose interest if they don’t play any games at all cause the players are too afraid to go to work. And actually if they don’t play any games eventually the players will stop getting paid cause they share in the profits and the CBA can be nullified.
What wouldn’t be fair is one set of players going to work and generating money for the league only to give a good portion of the money that they earn as part of the profit share to guys who sit at home collecting a paycheck on their contracts to not work.
Frank Dux wrote:I don’t understand why people side with the owners regarding salary. A player getting paid has zero effect on the fans. The owners have an enormous amount of money, if they sign a guy to a guaranteed contract, they’re obligated to pay the full amount.
This place is called RealGM; it's not that surprising that a lot of folks here side with administration over the players here because they often think more about transactions, management, and player value than actual basketball skills.
But it is kind of a hilarious trend in sports fandom, to side with billionaires over players. It's some combination of being a fan of a team over a player, and just good old-fashioned American wealth worship.
The Duke wrote: The league will still make good money, even if a couple of top basketball players decline to show up. Overall team talent would drop, but most of the money will still be rolling in, when you add a 12th man
Short term sure. But over the next 4-5 years a drop of a few key valuable players hurts the league's quality overall and popularity could drop (hard to say if it does or doesn't). A 12th man replacing a 6th man is a HUGE drop off for a playoff team though. That's very easily the difference in a title or not many years. I know fans focus on the stars, but there have been countless titles that would have swung had key bench players not been available.
We fans will definitely lose interest if they don’t play any games at all cause the players are too afraid to go to work. And actually if they don’t play any games eventually the players will stop getting paid cause they share in the profits and the CBA can be nullified.
What wouldn’t be fair is one set of players going to work and generating money for the league only to give a good portion of the money that they earn as part of the profit share to guys who sit at home collecting a paycheck on their contracts to not work.
Fans came back to the MLB, they'll come back to the NBA.
I do however agree with the bottom part. That would be pretty crappy, but that's a union issue and they can figure that stuff out.
dhsilv2 wrote: Short term sure. But over the next 4-5 years a drop of a few key valuable players hurts the league's quality overall and popularity could drop (hard to say if it does or doesn't). A 12th man replacing a 6th man is a HUGE drop off for a playoff team though. That's very easily the difference in a title or not many years. I know fans focus on the stars, but there have been countless titles that would have swung had key bench players not been available.
We fans will definitely lose interest if they don’t play any games at all cause the players are too afraid to go to work. And actually if they don’t play any games eventually the players will stop getting paid cause they share in the profits and the CBA can be nullified.
What wouldn’t be fair is one set of players going to work and generating money for the league only to give a good portion of the money that they earn as part of the profit share to guys who sit at home collecting a paycheck on their contracts to not work.
Fans came back to the MLB, they'll come back to the NBA.
I do however agree with the bottom part. That would be pretty crappy, but that's a union issue and they can figure that stuff out.
Fans would probably come back. The question is, how long are the players willing to not play? They know they run the league. If the virus/unrest is still happening in September/October they're going to leverage not playing again. MLB probably isnt coming back and they're headed into a labor dispute in 2021. Will the NFL players play if they see the NBA guys sitting? Doubtful. I dont think athletes see or really care about the big picture and are willing to push this as far as they can. The landscape of pro sports will look different in a few years as fans become more and more accustomed to life going on without them. There's a pro sports bubble that the players are unwilling to see because life for them right now couldnt be better.
NBAFan93 wrote: We fans will definitely lose interest if they don’t play any games at all cause the players are too afraid to go to work. And actually if they don’t play any games eventually the players will stop getting paid cause they share in the profits and the CBA can be nullified.
What wouldn’t be fair is one set of players going to work and generating money for the league only to give a good portion of the money that they earn as part of the profit share to guys who sit at home collecting a paycheck on their contracts to not work.
Fans came back to the MLB, they'll come back to the NBA.
I do however agree with the bottom part. That would be pretty crappy, but that's a union issue and they can figure that stuff out.
Fans would probably come back. The question is, how long are the players willing to not play? They know they run the league. If the virus/unrest is still happening in September/October they're going to leverage not playing again. MLB probably isnt coming back and they're headed into a labor dispute in 2021. Will the NFL players play if they see the NBA guys sitting? Doubtful. I dont think athletes see or really care about the big picture and are willing to push this as far as they can. The landscape of pro sports will look different in a few years as fans become more and more accustomed to life going on without them. There's a pro sports bubble that the players are unwilling to see because life for them right now couldnt be better.
I expect the NFL will play. That's far less a star driven league and players have insanely short windows to make money. But who knows. There's a lot of uncertainty with all of this.
I'd love them to just jump into the 2021 season in December or January if they can. I think this summer league invitational JV tourney they're about to save is just stupid to start with. It's looking more and more like a lot of players weren't even able to get their "supplements" and have lost considerable size to add onto I expect at least a dozen key guys to come in fat.
NBAFan93 wrote: We fans will definitely lose interest if they don’t play any games at all cause the players are too afraid to go to work. And actually if they don’t play any games eventually the players will stop getting paid cause they share in the profits and the CBA can be nullified.
What wouldn’t be fair is one set of players going to work and generating money for the league only to give a good portion of the money that they earn as part of the profit share to guys who sit at home collecting a paycheck on their contracts to not work.
Fans came back to the MLB, they'll come back to the NBA.
I do however agree with the bottom part. That would be pretty crappy, but that's a union issue and they can figure that stuff out.
Fans would probably come back. The question is, how long are the players willing to not play? They know they run the league. If the virus/unrest is still happening in September/October they're going to leverage not playing again. MLB probably isnt coming back and they're headed into a labor dispute in 2021. Will the NFL players play if they see the NBA guys sitting? Doubtful. I dont think athletes see or really care about the big picture and are willing to push this as far as they can. The landscape of pro sports will look different in a few years as fans become more and more accustomed to life going on without them. There's a pro sports bubble that the players are unwilling to see because life for them right now couldnt be better.
It depends what you see as the "big picture." I see a big picture of millions of infections and hundreds of thousands of people dying. That's the picture right now. Maybe some players see a big picture of risking themselves and their families for money. Believe it or not, that big picture is not worth it to some people.
dhsilv2 wrote: Fans came back to the MLB, they'll come back to the NBA.
I do however agree with the bottom part. That would be pretty crappy, but that's a union issue and they can figure that stuff out.
Fans would probably come back. The question is, how long are the players willing to not play? They know they run the league. If the virus/unrest is still happening in September/October they're going to leverage not playing again. MLB probably isnt coming back and they're headed into a labor dispute in 2021. Will the NFL players play if they see the NBA guys sitting? Doubtful. I dont think athletes see or really care about the big picture and are willing to push this as far as they can. The landscape of pro sports will look different in a few years as fans become more and more accustomed to life going on without them. There's a pro sports bubble that the players are unwilling to see because life for them right now couldnt be better.
I expect the NFL will play. That's far less a star driven league and players have insanely short windows to make money. But who knows. There's a lot of uncertainty with all of this.
I'd love them to just jump into the 2021 season in December or January if they can. I think this summer league invitational JV tourney they're about to save is just stupid to start with. It's looking more and more like a lot of players weren't even able to get their "supplements" and have lost considerable size to add onto I expect at least a dozen key guys to come in fat.
I thought the NFL would play too, but with the MLB and NBA balking, I dont think the NFL players (or the star ones) will come back this season. A full year without pro sports will change the TV landscape. NCAA- who knows? Will expected professional collegiate players play if pro seasons arent happening?
pipfan wrote:I run a school with about 100 teachers. We are online now, but in August we will be back on campus. If a teacher says "even with the safety precautions, I don't feel safe in returning" I would find a new teacher and let that one go. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Why are these guys different?
If that teacher had co-morbidities and/or was 65+ you'd be acting like an ass and likely get sued into oblivious and lose.
dhsilv2 wrote: Fans came back to the MLB, they'll come back to the NBA.
I do however agree with the bottom part. That would be pretty crappy, but that's a union issue and they can figure that stuff out.
Fans would probably come back. The question is, how long are the players willing to not play? They know they run the league. If the virus/unrest is still happening in September/October they're going to leverage not playing again. MLB probably isnt coming back and they're headed into a labor dispute in 2021. Will the NFL players play if they see the NBA guys sitting? Doubtful. I dont think athletes see or really care about the big picture and are willing to push this as far as they can. The landscape of pro sports will look different in a few years as fans become more and more accustomed to life going on without them. There's a pro sports bubble that the players are unwilling to see because life for them right now couldnt be better.
It depends what you see as the "big picture." I see a big picture of millions of infections and hundreds of thousands of people dying. That's the picture right now. Maybe some players see a big picture of risking themselves and their families for money. Believe it or not, that big picture is not worth it to some people.
Ok, that's fine. Then cancel the season. Whats the holdup? Cancel next years too.
JB2 wrote:To me this sounds more like, "do I really want to go live in Disney World for the next 3 months" and how it impacts the following seasons schedule more than it does health concerns.
I understand it but at the same time, restaurants are opening, gyms are opening, theme parks are opening.. can't live in this fear forever.
100% this. Who here thinks these players aren’t out and about everywhere just like everyone else? These guys are hooking up and doing whatever. Health concerns are a cover for lifestyle disruption
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.
lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
Billy Goat wrote:What if next season has parameters the players don't like? Just cancel sports? This was the slope SIlver created...and we could be seeing the slow death of the league here. It's hard to have a functional league when the top guys/wealthiest arent driven by winning. They've gotten a taste of the retired life with zero commitments and are liking it. Why get back to actual responsibility when you don't have to and have media support? It stinks for the fans, but this generation of player seems to outright resent the fact that there are fans. Players arent seeing the big picture, and it's hard to blame them when they have wealth beyond what anyone could imagine. I mean Harden's grandkids grandkids wont have to work. Unless there's a mandate by the commissioner or guys starting getting levied heavy fines, I dont see the league restarting anytime in the next few years.
Well, without a doubt the massive amounts of money in the sport has changed the game. From the "Too soon too fast" or whatever it was called era to well, the mega bucks from the last TV deal. Players today in a very short time earn generational wealth and they do so because we fans are idiots and are paying for it (well some of you are...I'm not).
If "we" (the greater we) are willing to pay these guys to be stupid rich as they are then we have to accept this too.
As for how long, that I don't know. Most of us have had to uproot our lives over all of this and most of us have choices to make in this new environment. I haven't seen my parents since this all started. Not that I see them that often, but it's certainly getting to be a bit too long imo and I'm sure their's. I'm not sure when it'll be prudent to go see them. At the same time, I COULD choose to completely isolate and have all food delivered to me (hell even alcohol!), but I am still going to the grocery, liquor stores, and seeing SOME of my friends who are also low risk and are comfortable with it. In doing that I'm also indirectly choose not to see family as I'm now a risk to them.
The point is we all have and are making choices. It always has been the player's choice to keep playing. Just like Keith Van Horn while still an above average nba player decided to walk away from millions of dollars to focus on his family, every player has always had that choice. If the NBA becomes a sport where players are locked into a "campus" for months without being able to leave, I'd be willing to bet a LOT of players would take their rookie deal, make millions, and walk away vs staying. Sucks for fans, but unless we stop watching and/or stop paying for services with the NBA on it, the money dynamic is going to be such that this is an option for them.
Ultimately, this is about personal liberty. Even rich athletes get to make choices with their lives. Just like accountants and lawyers are making choices right now with if they allow clients into their offices or if they're all going to work from home. Just like some people are well off enough to just not work right now.
If you subtracted every player in the league and played two seasons without them, we'd still have stars. Someone would step in and get high usage and score 25-30 points a game.
pipfan wrote:I run a school with about 100 teachers. We are online now, but in August we will be back on campus. If a teacher says "even with the safety precautions, I don't feel safe in returning" I would find a new teacher and let that one go. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Why are these guys different?
If that teacher had co-morbidities and/or was 65+ you'd be acting like an ass and likely get sued into oblivious and lose.
Ok, but NBA players don't have any of that. On top of it, people have been out and about for a month now. They’re out there without masks. People are hooking up off of tinder. Do you think these players who have supposed “health Concerns” aren’t partying? I’d buy this excuse if a player hasn’t gone or done anything of leisure which we know is probably zero of them
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.
lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
JB2 wrote:To me this sounds more like, "do I really want to go live in Disney World for the next 3 months" and how it impacts the following seasons schedule more than it does health concerns.
I understand it but at the same time, restaurants are opening, gyms are opening, theme parks are opening.. can't live in this fear forever.
100% this. Who here thinks these players aren’t out and about everywhere just like everyone else? These guys are hooking up and doing whatever. Health concerns are a cover for lifestyle disruption
Media is covering for the players too and will continue to do so as it makes their life easier if they're still getting paid and dont have to churn out weekly or daily content. Silver doesnt seem to care and knows he has no power anyways. Owners seem fine with not playing too (or at least have remained quiet). They are living the good life right now- endless money and no responsibilities. A bubble at Disney, or hell any sort of job commitment after getting a taste of being young, rich, and retired would sound like a downgrade.
Nate505 wrote: Something else? Did you not say this?
"You must risk your health for our entertainment"
Who is suggesting that?
Spoiler:
Dzon Dilindzer wrote:
TheBoi10 wrote:Leak the names
lakerz12 wrote:Soft
Roscoe Sheed wrote:I think they shouldn’t be worried very much about safety if they really will be tested every day. Also, they are in a low risk age group.
I think they are probably more upset about being away from families and women for so long. Not to be too crass, but when’s the last time any of these guys went more than a week without getting laid?
DaPessimist wrote:Let's keep it 100. They aren't scared of COVID.
They're concerned with not being able to get pussy and weed while stuck inside Disney World for 2 months.
I bet Harden's first question was whether or not Disney World has a strip club.
TheBoi10 wrote:
Up-And-Coming wrote:Covid concerns? PED testing concerns? Injury concerns? Idk... but I hope the season gets to play out sooner rather than later
Let's address the elephant in the room. How much of this is about not having access to women for possibly months on end.
I could go on, but you get the point---if you are willing to get it. I assume you are going to come back and say these posters didn't literally say "you must risk your health for our entertainment" and dismiss it, but you can't pretend these poster care about the players here either.
Here's a fun one just added:
NBAFan93 wrote:In the case of many of these guys, especially the ones who frequently sleep around w/ groupies and prostitues, it’s probably much safer for them to be celibate. Both for their health and their finances.
Yep these guys definitely care about the players and no veiled racism here....
Jeez. You're putting words in a lot of peoples' mouths.
All I said was "soft" and I was half joking.
This is a very nuanced issue, also. To say that I feel players "must risk [their] health for our entertainment" and to say that I don't "care about the players here either" is juvenile and overly simplistic.
There is a very strong case to be made in the middle ground based on the fact that we all risk our lives every day. And we can't just stop living and stop doing our jobs and stop doing what we love because of the outside chance of contracting a virus.
If that were a sustainable, reasonable way of thinking, we should just end life right now entirely. In case you didn't realize there's always a risk of getting a virus or dying of a number of things. And it will always be that way on this earth.
The disproportionate caution and fear over this particular virus is obvious to anyone willing to see it.
Also, are you against the recent protests because of the people gathering and risk of transmitting the virus? Do you not care about their lives?
