bondom34 wrote:getrichordie wrote:bondom34 wrote:KD's not there either. And the accomplishments that got him anywhere near top 20 aren't from OKC.
Well good thing we've got RAPM that feels similar. Maybe Durant not being able to win without an MVP caliber point guard shows his impact is a bit dampened from his ability to iso score. I'm confused why PIPM is good enough to determine all NBA teams and not to differentiate here.
I don't think it's for certain either way, and know Westbrook might well be the minority opinion, but he's got an extra 2 full seasons, one of which was an MVP level year. Don't think it's open and shut.
I think you are in the overall minority. If you are just talking Thunder fans, you are probably in majority. Again, this is not about accumulative years. It is who was the best player while they were here hence Harden > Ibaka.
I think PIPM is a really strong stat that measures impact outside of counting stats, but circumstances must be taken into account as well. I.E. Porzingis over Siakam as Siakam had better team around him.
2012 Harden wasn't that level of good.
And you're ignoring context yourself. Westbrook had better impact numbers with the same basic teams.
Also that use for Siakam is not how to give context at all.
Edited for a capitalization but:
Context for impact metrics isn't "X had a better team around him", it's "X's role was larger/smaller/similar in type". Siakam is a larger part of Toronto's offense than Porzingis, who's not the primary focus of a defense or a heavy creator.
Also, the top 10/15 point made to ThunderBolt above didn't really make sense, it's either valid for both or neither. And if it's who's highest all time I'd say Harden's then ahead of Westbrook by a little, but again not because of his time in OKC.
I've already stated that it's not about highest all time. Hell, just ignore the top 10/15 thing then if it helps. I just thought it would help put into perspective the level of player Durant is versus Westbrook as you can "reverse-engineer" (for lack of a better term) from there because players don't go from being worse than Westbrook and turn into top 10/top 15 in a couple years. But for the sake of the discussion, let's just save that little bit for another time.
My point still stands about the #1/#2 discussion surrounding Durant but not Westbrook while they were both here @ OKC.
I'd like to also note that Westbrook wasn't a great fit for Durant and that Durant was a better fit for Westbrook. Both can be true.
Also, if Siakam's role is larger, then how is Porzingis' PIPM significantly higher? I fail to see what you are trying to get at. The kind of team around you HAS to have some sort of INDIRECT impact on your individual impact. Having better spacing around you opens up things for you as a player just like having a good defensive big behind you allows you to play up on players a little more and do more things on defense.