NBA Season Suspended Indefinitely

[nate33]

Unproven. While the majority of people who have been infected and survived COVID form antibodies in response to the infection, we still don't have evidence that those antibodies prevent reinfection and if so, for how long. This from folks at NIH who are tracking this carefully.

Okay then. We can forget about a vaccine. No immunity, no vaccine. We must remain locked down forever. Enjoy the rest of your life behind closed doors, never being in a group of 10 or more.

Also, your point is incorrect. There is indeed a lot of proof that contracting the virus gives you immunity. Immunity may not last forever, but typical immunity for coronaviruses is a minimum of 2 years. And reinfections after that result in much milder symptoms.

[dckingsfan]

... We are seeing a swell of cases from Memorial day, haven't seen the effects of 2 weeks of mass protests, memorial day parties, non-maskers in stores, etc.. We are just distracted from the acute public health pandemic by the chromic brutality and injustice pandemic we have had along.

Just helping

Not really.

I said Memorial Day. We are starting to see an uptick in hospitalizations from the Memorial day re-opening. What other singular even has drawn mass crowds? I've been to protests. They're awesome. Literally awe inspiring. Still, we will see if there is an aftershock in cases from people sharing space with no possibility of social distance. No point trying to make science politically correct. I'd bet there was an uptick in cases from crowds of gun toting protesters who wanted to reopen everything. Large groups equals many more infection vectors.

Ugh, I mis-posted, so much for helping . I meant to add onto the cases from Memorial Day. The parties, the opening and the non-masking folks in stores and restaurants (although impossible for a patron to mask there).

Agreed, we haven't seen the affects of the protests.

[payitforward]

...if there was a quick free test with an app (and HIPAA waiver disclaimer) that simply allowed you to ping it to someone else's phone for dating purposes or whatever then I think a large population of people would make that a natural part of societal pressure. (You don't have to take the app, but if you want to get into THIS exclusive club, or THAT bar of X-event of significant size, then you need a recent 'green check mark' on your Good2Go app or whatever. Get G2G!+ for iPhones and Android, and your fitbit.

...that tech could eventually be expanded to STDs or whatever other test info you allowed the app to share with someone else's phone....

Home run idea, doc. Well done.

But, really, it's all your health info that would you'd access on your device -- full set of health records (they would not need to be stored locally, obviously -- better if not).

It's a little bit complicated, given the needs for verifiability, reliability, privacy, etc. But, it's definitely a great idea -- & the direction we are moving in. Slowly....

[doclinkin]

Unproven. While the majority of people who have been infected and survived COVID form antibodies in response to the infection, we still don't have evidence that those antibodies prevent reinfection and if so, for how long. This from folks at NIH who are tracking this carefully.

Okay then. We can forget about a vaccine. No immunity, no vaccine. We must remain locked down forever. Enjoy the rest of your life behind closed doors, never being in a group of 10 or more.

Also, your point is incorrect. There is indeed a lot of proof that contracting the virus gives you immunity. Immunity may not last forever, but typical immunity for coronaviruses is a minimum of 2 years. And reinfections after that result in much milder symptoms.

You know the common cold is a coronavirus. We have never come up with a vaccine for that one have we? I'm not for shouting doom and gloom. I'm saying we are not even a year into the life of this one, and studies so far have as few as a couple hundred test cases. We are still discovering new symptoms and complications. It's way too early to get overconfident about herd immunity etc. But I'd love to read any study you can site that suggests COVID 19 antibodies confer immunity. Link?

My point is not that we will never reopen. The point is that frequent testing is the only thing we are readily able to do right now. Until and unless the science shows otherwise.

[doclinkin]

...if there was a quick free test with an app (and HIPAA waiver disclaimer) that simply allowed you to ping it to someone else's phone for dating purposes or whatever then I think a large population of people would make that a natural part of societal pressure. (You don't have to take the app, but if you want to get into THIS exclusive club, or THAT bar of X-event of significant size, then you need a recent 'green check mark' on your Good2Go app or whatever. Get G2G!+ for iPhones and Android, and your fitbit.

...that tech could eventually be expanded to STDs or whatever other test info you allowed the app to share with someone else's phone....

Home run idea, doc. Well done.

But, really, it's all your health info that would you'd access on your device -- full set of health records (they would not need to be stored locally, obviously -- better if not).

It's a little bit complicated, given the needs for verifiability, reliability, privacy, etc. But, it's definitely a great idea -- & the direction we are moving in. Slowly....

That is my point. That the pandemic would force some flex in both the HIPAA laws and peoples willingness to surrender their medical records to the cloud. But that social pressures would alter perception and people would willingly participate if there were a social benefit they could immediately perceive. Dating. Or entry into social hotspots. The bouncer swiping your phone at the door.

Now deep in the disclaimer language of the app there would probably be allowance for data tracking on public health issues. So long as you were protected from legal consequences. That is if the app was not admissible evidence in a court of law, etc. There are wrinkles. But yes, being able to swiftly slide your info from your phone to a doctor, or to alert an EMT and call an ambulance with data if you were having an event --that would be far better than one of those "I've Fallen and I can't get up" med alert bracelets from back in the day.

[payitforward]

Ok... actually I did a small consulting gig for HHS on the subject of electronic medical records. Now, this was a while ago, when I was still an Internet/collaboration/social software "pioneer" slash "guru" ("can talk; will travel").

The problems around security & privacy are enormous, huge, colossal. Yes, people will trade information about themselves for an immediate benefit, however slight. But, the thing is, once you've traded that info, it itself becomes a commodity that is tradable. & is traded. Then traded again.

IOW, what I give Joe the bouncer so I can get into the club is, in short order, in the hands of any & every organization of any & every kind anywhere & everywhere around the globe. Since it is, & always will be, beyond the ken of individuals to quite grasp the way that process works, one function of government & laws is to protect them.

Thus, it's not a question of what's on the app. E.g. whether it's admissible in court. The app, any app that's on the net in any way, faces this problem.

Doesn't mean it can't/shouldn't happen -- there are tremendous benefits to the individual, especially in a health crisis. But, no one yet knows how to solve the problem I just described.

[nate33]

Unproven. While the majority of people who have been infected and survived COVID form antibodies in response to the infection, we still don't have evidence that those antibodies prevent reinfection and if so, for how long. This from folks at NIH who are tracking this carefully.

Okay then. We can forget about a vaccine. No immunity, no vaccine. We must remain locked down forever. Enjoy the rest of your life behind closed doors, never being in a group of 10 or more.

Also, your point is incorrect. There is indeed a lot of proof that contracting the virus gives you immunity. Immunity may not last forever, but typical immunity for coronaviruses is a minimum of 2 years. And reinfections after that result in much milder symptoms.

You know the common cold is a coronavirus. We have never come up with a vaccine for that one have we? I'm not for shouting doom and gloom. I'm saying we are not even a year into the life of this one, and studies so far have as few as a couple hundred test cases. We are still discovering new symptoms and complications. It's way too early to get overconfident about herd immunity etc. But I'd love to read any study you can site that suggests COVID 19 antibodies confer immunity. Link?

My point is not that we will never reopen. The point is that frequent testing is the only thing we are readily able to do right now. Until and unless the science shows otherwise.

https://bgr.com/2020/05/15/coronavirus-immunity-after-recovery-new-studies-detail-immune-response/

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52446965

[doclinkin]

Okay then. We can forget about a vaccine. No immunity, no vaccine. We must remain locked down forever. Enjoy the rest of your life behind closed doors, never being in a group of 10 or more.

Also, your point is incorrect. There is indeed a lot of proof that contracting the virus gives you immunity. Immunity may not last forever, but typical immunity for coronaviruses is a minimum of 2 years. And reinfections after that result in much milder symptoms.

You know the common cold is a coronavirus. We have never come up with a vaccine for that one have we? I'm not for shouting doom and gloom. I'm saying we are not even a year into the life of this one, and studies so far have as few as a couple hundred test cases. We are still discovering new symptoms and complications. It's way too early to get overconfident about herd immunity etc. But I'd love to read any study you can site that suggests COVID 19 antibodies confer immunity. Link?

My point is not that we will never reopen. The point is that frequent testing is the only thing we are readily able to do right now. Until and unless the science shows otherwise.

https://bgr.com/2020/05/15/coronavirus-immunity-after-recovery-new-studies-detail-immune-response/

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52446965

Ok thanks for the link. So: suggestive evidence of potential immunity, in a study of ~60 people. Though naturally with no long term studies possible. One thing that is intriguing is the hints that former coronavirus infections may confer even partial immunity or lessen the symptoms in COVID-19 infection. That seems like a promising area to study since we have had more time pass between the last few coronavirus events.

[nate33]

One thing that is intriguing is the hints that former coronavirus infections may confer even partial immunity or lessen the symptoms in COVID-19 infection. That seems like a promising area to study since we have had more time pass between the last few coronavirus events.

Indeed.

It would also help to explain why kids are virtually immune, or at least mostly asymptomatic. Kids come in contact with a lot more coronaviruses and probably have all kinds of useful T-cells circulating throughout their body.

It's also possible that a significant percentage of us are already effectively immune thanks to exposure to the right common cold coronaviruses, which may mean that the we are closer to the herd immunity threshold. Herd immunity may be effectively at 30 or 40%, not 60-70%, because 20-40% of us were immune to this thing before it even started.

Keep an eye on New York. 15-20% of their population has had it, but their daily new case rate is down to a very low 900 a day (or about 4 new cases per 100,000 people). That's down from a peak of 10,000 new cases a day - a 91% reduction. California, a state with similar lockdown restrictions but with less than 5% of population having had the virus, has seen a steady rise in case rate and are now at a 3500 new cases a day (or about 9 cases per 100,000 people). The main difference between the two states is the percentage of population who has already had it. It looks like a population immunity level as low as 20% is making a massive difference in the new case rate.

[Ruzious]

Talking to my microbiologist acquaintance, one of the big problems in finding a vaccine or cure/treatment is that the virus has evolved since it started. What might be successful against the virus in February or March might not be today. We still don't know if people who got it earlier are immune now. Using their blood platelets as treatments hasn't looked as promising as some hoped.

Of all the major US sports (other than golf), the NBA seems to be in the best position to move forward. They've only got 15 - 17 players on a roster, they've got a relatively safe place to play, a relatively safe place for the players to live during the season, only 8 regular season games left to play per team, the most respected and effective Commish in US sports, and motivated players - other than Kyrie the Clown.

[LyricalRico]

Of all the major US sports (other than golf), the NBA seems to be in the best position to move forward. They've only got 15 - 17 players on a roster, they've got a relatively safe place to play, a relatively safe place for the players to live during the season, only 8 regular season games left to play per team, the most respected and effective Commish in US sports, and motivated players - other than Kyrie the Clown.

Sweet, back to basketball. Are all the players really that motivated? With some exceptions based on contract structure, I'm guessing most players have already received the majority of their guaranteed salary for the season so they aren't in the same position as, say, MLB players. We also know not everybody is fanatically pursuing a championship. Plus the opinions of Kyrie and others (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-players-divided-on-resuming-season-amid-protests-heres-what-some-stars-have-said/).

Not saying I doubt they actually start playing games at the end of July, but I'm not sure this is going to go the way many fans are hoping it will.

[Ruzious]

Of all the major US sports (other than golf), the NBA seems to be in the best position to move forward. They've only got 15 - 17 players on a roster, they've got a relatively safe place to play, a relatively safe place for the players to live during the season, only 8 regular season games left to play per team, the most respected and effective Commish in US sports, and motivated players - other than Kyrie the Clown.

Sweet, back to basketball. Are all the players really that motivated? With some exceptions based on contract structure, I'm guessing most players have already received the majority of their guaranteed salary for the season so they aren't in the same position as, say, MLB players. We also know not everybody is fanatically pursuing a championship. Plus the opinions of Kyrie and others (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-players-divided-on-resuming-season-amid-protests-heres-what-some-stars-have-said/).

Not saying I doubt they actually start playing games at the end of July, but I'm not sure this is going to go the way many fans are hoping it will.

At some point in May, the NBA started withholding 25% of salaries to players. I'm sure they'd rather keep 100%. And playing basketball is what they do. I think it goes without saying that the teams set for the playoffs want to play.

[LyricalRico]

Of all the major US sports (other than golf), the NBA seems to be in the best position to move forward. They've only got 15 - 17 players on a roster, they've got a relatively safe place to play, a relatively safe place for the players to live during the season, only 8 regular season games left to play per team, the most respected and effective Commish in US sports, and motivated players - other than Kyrie the Clown.

Sweet, back to basketball. Are all the players really that motivated? With some exceptions based on contract structure, I'm guessing most players have already received the majority of their guaranteed salary for the season so they aren't in the same position as, say, MLB players. We also know not everybody is fanatically pursuing a championship. Plus the opinions of Kyrie and others (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-players-divided-on-resuming-season-amid-protests-heres-what-some-stars-have-said/).

Not saying I doubt they actually start playing games at the end of July, but I'm not sure this is going to go the way many fans are hoping it will.

At some point in May, the NBA started withholding 25% of salaries to players. I'm sure they'd rather keep 100%. And playing basketball is what they do. I think it goes without saying that the teams set for the playoffs want to play.

I remember the 25%, but with so few games left I wasn't sure how impactful it would be. Latest WireTap article seems to confirm that only a small group might actually sit out.

[Ruzious]

Sweet, back to basketball. Are all the players really that motivated? With some exceptions based on contract structure, I'm guessing most players have already received the majority of their guaranteed salary for the season so they aren't in the same position as, say, MLB players. We also know not everybody is fanatically pursuing a championship. Plus the opinions of Kyrie and others (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-players-divided-on-resuming-season-amid-protests-heres-what-some-stars-have-said/).

Not saying I doubt they actually start playing games at the end of July, but I'm not sure this is going to go the way many fans are hoping it will.

At some point in May, the NBA started withholding 25% of salaries to players. I'm sure they'd rather keep 100%. And playing basketball is what they do. I think it goes without saying that the teams set for the playoffs want to play.

I remember the 25%, but with so few games left I wasn't sure how impactful it would be. Latest WireTap article seems to confirm that only a small group might actually sit out.

The contrarian group - led by Kyrie Irving. The guy's been out all season, and now he wants to make things difficult for everyone else. Guys like him are so annoying.

[Ruzious]

This is a quote from Kyrie and his group:

"We are a group of men and women from different teams and industries that are normally painted as opponents, but have put our egos and differences aside to make sure we stand united and demand honesty during this uncertain time," the coalition said.

"Native indigenous African Caribbean men and women entertaining the world, we will continue to use our voices and platforms for positive change and truth.

"We are truly at an inflection point in history where as a collective community, we can band together -- UNIFY -- and move as one. We need all our people with us and we will stand together in solidarity.

"As an oppressed community we are going on 500-plus years of being systemically targeted, used for our IP [intellectual property]/Talent, and also still being killed by the very people that are supposed to 'protect and serve' us.

"WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!

"We are combating the issues that matter most: We will not accept the racial injustices that continue to be ignored in our communities. We will not be kept in the dark when it comes to our health and well-being. And we will not ignore the financial motivations/expectations that have prevented us historically from making sound decisions.

"This is not about individual players, athletes or entertainers. This is about our group of strong men and women uniting for change. We have our respective fields, however, we will not just shut up and play to distract us from what this whole system has been about: Use and Abuse.

"We are all fathers, daughters, leaders and so much more. So what is our BIG picture? We are in this for UNITY and CHANGE!"

Some people are going to complain no matter what. Everything could be perfect for them thanks to the great efforts of others, and they will always make every effort to play the martyr. Kyrie Irving is one of those people. He is a complete fool, imo.

[Kanyewest]

Last week, Kevin Pelton gave the Wizards only a 20% chance to make it to the knock out round against the Nets. He stated that the easiest strength of schedule for the remaining teams would be tougher than the toughest team's schedule in a normal regular season given the drop out of all the bad teams.

That being said, the schedule could provide a good competitive opportunity for the Wizards provided all the logistics could be worked out.

[doclinkin]

This is a quote from Kyrie and his group:

"We are a group of men and women from different teams and industries that are normally painted as opponents, but have put our egos and differences aside to make sure we stand united and demand honesty during this uncertain time," the coalition said.

"Native indigenous African Caribbean men and women entertaining the world, we will continue to use our voices and platforms for positive change and truth.

"We are truly at an inflection point in history where as a collective community, we can band together -- UNIFY -- and move as one. We need all our people with us and we will stand together in solidarity.

"As an oppressed community we are going on 500-plus years of being systemically targeted, used for our IP [intellectual property]/Talent, and also still being killed by the very people that are supposed to 'protect and serve' us.

"WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!

"We are combating the issues that matter most: We will not accept the racial injustices that continue to be ignored in our communities. We will not be kept in the dark when it comes to our health and well-being. And we will not ignore the financial motivations/expectations that have prevented us historically from making sound decisions.

"This is not about individual players, athletes or entertainers. This is about our group of strong men and women uniting for change. We have our respective fields, however, we will not just shut up and play to distract us from what this whole system has been about: Use and Abuse.

"We are all fathers, daughters, leaders and so much more. So what is our BIG picture? We are in this for UNITY and CHANGE!"

Some people are going to complain no matter what. Everything could be perfect for them thanks to the great efforts of others, and they will always make every effort to play the martyr. Kyrie Irving is one of those people. He is a complete fool, imo.

I heartily disagree. I think people are struggling to find an appropriate response to a world that has gone crazy. I think there is a reasonable question among millionaire athletes about how to best use their platform and influence in a world where they literally have been told to "shut up and dribble". Kap took a knee and was run out of a league where he had next to zero support from his teammates etc. Kyrie says: they want us to re-start despite health concerns, and go about business as usual, so they won't default on billion dollar contracts. Now is when we have leverage, next year this may be swept under the rug, now is when we have influence. How do we use that? I think it is 100% reasonable for him to try to find an appropriate response to the moment. Is this statement it? Maybe not, by itself, but is there more that can be done with that leverage? Probably. Especially with a commissioner in place who is thoughtful and responsive to his employees, and in a sport with relatively few employees, easily identifiable.

Consider that you are not the constituency that this statement is intended for. He's got a community who looks to sports figures and entertainers for leadership in a world where they are starved of other public figures to look up to. Kyrie learned he gets a ridiculous amount of press for musing aloud if the world is flat, after disappearing down a youtube hole and emerging with his head spun and a wry sense of humor about it. If he has that much pull or Q rating, what SHOULD he do with it. Just shut up and play?

[Ruzious]

This is a quote from Kyrie and his group:

"We are a group of men and women from different teams and industries that are normally painted as opponents, but have put our egos and differences aside to make sure we stand united and demand honesty during this uncertain time," the coalition said.

"Native indigenous African Caribbean men and women entertaining the world, we will continue to use our voices and platforms for positive change and truth.

"We are truly at an inflection point in history where as a collective community, we can band together -- UNIFY -- and move as one. We need all our people with us and we will stand together in solidarity.

"As an oppressed community we are going on 500-plus years of being systemically targeted, used for our IP [intellectual property]/Talent, and also still being killed by the very people that are supposed to 'protect and serve' us.

"WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!

"We are combating the issues that matter most: We will not accept the racial injustices that continue to be ignored in our communities. We will not be kept in the dark when it comes to our health and well-being. And we will not ignore the financial motivations/expectations that have prevented us historically from making sound decisions.

"This is not about individual players, athletes or entertainers. This is about our group of strong men and women uniting for change. We have our respective fields, however, we will not just shut up and play to distract us from what this whole system has been about: Use and Abuse.

"We are all fathers, daughters, leaders and so much more. So what is our BIG picture? We are in this for UNITY and CHANGE!"

Some people are going to complain no matter what. Everything could be perfect for them thanks to the great efforts of others, and they will always make every effort to play the martyr. Kyrie Irving is one of those people. He is a complete fool, imo.

I heartily disagree. I think people are struggling to find an appropriate response to a world that has gone crazy. I think there is a reasonable question among millionaire athletes about how to best use their platform and influence in a world where they literally have been told to "shut up and dribble". Kap took a knee and was run out of a league where he had next to zero support from his teammates etc. Kyrie says: they want us to re-start despite health concerns, and go about business as usual, so they won't default on billion dollar contracts. Now is when we have leverage, next year this may be swept under the rug, now is when we have influence. How do we use that? I think it is 100% reasonable for him to try to find an appropriate response to the moment. Is this statement it? Maybe not, by itself, but is there more that can be done with that leverage? Probably. Especially with a commissioner in place who is thoughtful and responsive to his employees, and in a sport with relatively few employees, easily identifiable.

Consider that you are not the constituency that this statement is intended for. He's got a community who looks to sports figures and entertainers for leadership in a world where they are starved of other public figures to look up to. Kyrie learned he gets a ridiculous amount of press for musing aloud if the world is flat, after disappearing down a youtube hole and emerging with his head spun and a wry sense of humor about it. If he has that much pull or Q rating, what SHOULD he do with it. Just shut up and play?

He doesn't even want to play. I think you're giving him way too much credit. This isn't about him expressing himself; it's about him intentionally trying to mess up a GREAT thing for a lot of other people - because he can't think of a better way to draw attention to himself. He's no Kap. He's "Look at me Bron; I'm a star!" Oscar Meyer Fake Beef Bologna. Trying to hurt the NBA and all the people that benefit from it makes no sense if he really had good intentions.

[DCZards]

If Kyrie and some of the other NBA players are concerned about restarting the season for health reasons, I don't have a problem with that. And if the concern of Kyrie, Dwight, Avery Bradley and others is social justice, I'm onboard for that fight.

But I don't think these players should use not restarting the season as a platform for the social justice fight. The NBA and some of its players (such as Lebron) have consistently proven to be among the most forward thinking, socially conscious institutions in our country. I'm sure that if the coalition led by Kyrie and Bradley want to convince the NBA to step up its social justice game that they accomplish that without threatening not to restart the season...and dividing their own ranks.

[Ruzious]

If Kyrie and some of the other NBA players are concerned about restarting the season for health reasons, I don't have a problem with that. And if the concern of Kyrie, Dwight, Avery Bradley and others is social justice, I'm onboard for that fight.

But I don't think these players should use not restarting the season as a platform for the social justice fight. The NBA and some of its players (such as Lebron) have consistently proven to be among the most forward thinking, socially conscious institutions in our country. I'm sure that if the coalition led by Kyrie and Bradley want to convince the NBA to step up its social justice game that they accomplish that without threatening not to restart the season...and dividing their own ranks.

If I was being honest, I'd say Kyrie is likely more worried about not having a supply of weed and strip clubs while being stuck in Disney World - than he is about any health issues. But I'm not going to say it.