getrichordie wrote:I still don't understand Jalen Smith getting this much love. Can someone please sell me on him and what his role in the NBA is? Would rather have Tillman, Richards, or Oturu. No one has talked about him. Feels like people are just going to tankathon and then voting based on that
Full disclosure, I have not cast any votes for him yet, but I do feel like I am one of the more Pro-Jalen guys on here (he's fluctuated from ~20-40 on my BB).
I watch a sickening amount of Big Ten basketball as I am a diehard Badger fan, and I would rank the conference bigs as follows:
1. Xavier Tillman 2. Jalen Smith 3. Kaleb Wesson 4. Luka Garza 5. Daniel Oturu
What makes Jalen #2 for me is his modern NBA toolbox. He is a good rim-protector, can knock down shots from long range both off PnP and off of movement, good rebounder (specifically good offensive rebounder), explosive leaper and lob target. High character, plays hard, unselfish. I actually saw him live this past year, and he was clearly the best player on the floor (which isn't saying much playing against my Badgers). He can be a little stiff moving laterally, but I've also seen him hang when switched onto guards. He can't handle for **** or create for himself, that's not the type of player he is.
Probably would do best in a drop scheme with a skilled PnR handler on offense, but could certainly see Myles Turner/Dewayne Dedmon-ish outcomes for him. Worth a 1st for the right squad, IMO.
Oturu is a low-feel black hole, stay away. Poor man's Kabengele.
I appreciate the insight.
II just can't see Oturu being the worse fit in the NBA. Garza and Wesson are good college players, sure, but Oturu beats them out with decent ability to defend in space (better than Smith IMO) and he can also stretch the floor. Oturu's #s aren't far off from Smith's and he did it as the highest usage player on his team. Maryland's team shared the ball a bit more where as in Minnesota, Oturu and Carr were the #1 and #2 options on their offense. Also, it is important to note that Minnesota had the 72nd hardest schedule in the country. Maryland? 192nd. Big difference there.
I don't foresee Oturu being anything close to a #1 option on offense so I think that mitigates a lot of his weaknesses. And I just think he has the better NBA body and looks better on the perimeter in space. Smith might have been a little better in college, but I think his 3-ball is getting him a lot of hype and is overshadowing his glaring weaknesses.
vs. top 143 competition
oturu
26 gp 38.8% 3-pt shooter on 49 attempts (almost 2 a game) 48-125 on far 2s 71.8% at the rim 60.8% TS 22% DRB rate 11% ORB rate 0.5 A/TO 6.8% BLK ... on 28% USG
smith
25 gp 40% 3-pt shooter on 80 attempts (more than 3 per) 15-51 on far 2s 70.2% at rim (131 attempts) 62.5 TS 25% DRB rate 11% ORB rate 0.5 A/TO 8.2 BLK% ... on 23% USG
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Also according to ValueAdded, Oturu's adjusted O + D is better than Smith's.
RiotPunch wrote:Try telling Oturu he's not a #1 option on a team.
If he buys in he could be okay, but dude thinks he's Marcus Morris.
What makes you say that? I've seen a couple interviews of him and seems like a humble kid who would be willing to do what it takes to contribute.
Also, Smith and Oturu's per 100 rebounding and block numbers are nearly identical.
And as a cherry on top, when you consider that Oturu's Adjusted D rtg is better when he was surrounded by guys who were 6'4 or shorter and a non-factor at the 4, and then you look at Smith's team which has some 6'6, 6'7, 6'5, 6'8 guys playing in the rotation, it makes it all that more convincing.
RiotPunch wrote:Try telling Oturu he's not a #1 option on a team.
If he buys in he could be okay, but dude thinks he's Marcus Morris.
What makes you say that? I've seen a couple interviews of him and seems like a humble kid who would be willing to do what it takes to contribute.
Also, Smith and Oturu's per 100 rebounding and block numbers are nearly identical.
I'll try to find some clips, but just my opinion watching more Gophers hoops than my eyes would care to. MIN @ MSU comes to mind off the top of my head.
He definitely seems like a good and humble kid in interviews.
#FreeChuckDiesel
Bucksmaniac wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm starting to sour on Giannis
RiotPunch wrote:Try telling Oturu he's not a #1 option on a team.
If he buys in he could be okay, but dude thinks he's Marcus Morris.
What makes you say that? I've seen a couple interviews of him and seems like a humble kid who would be willing to do what it takes to contribute.
Also, Smith and Oturu's per 100 rebounding and block numbers are nearly identical.
I'll try to find some clips, but just my opinion watching more Gophers hoops than my eyes would care to. MIN @ MSU comes to mind off the top of my head.
He definitely seems like a good and humble kid in interviews.
Keep in mind who he is playing with too. He's surrounded by a bunch of guys 6'4 and under and a terrible 4, LOL. Smith had bigger guys on wings. I'd really urge you to watch his defense on his youtube scouting video.
RiotPunch wrote:Try telling Oturu he's not a #1 option on a team.
If he buys in he could be okay, but dude thinks he's Marcus Morris.
What makes you say that? I've seen a couple interviews of him and seems like a humble kid who would be willing to do what it takes to contribute.
Also, Smith and Oturu's per 100 rebounding and block numbers are nearly identical.
I'll try to find some clips, but just my opinion watching more Gophers hoops than my eyes would care to. MIN @ MSU comes to mind off the top of my head.
He definitely seems like a good and humble kid in interviews.
MSU? MSU makes most guys look bad, LOL! 13th best AdjustedD in the nation!
getrichordie wrote: What makes you say that? I've seen a couple interviews of him and seems like a humble kid who would be willing to do what it takes to contribute.
Also, Smith and Oturu's per 100 rebounding and block numbers are nearly identical.
I'll try to find some clips, but just my opinion watching more Gophers hoops than my eyes would care to. MIN @ MSU comes to mind off the top of my head.
He definitely seems like a good and humble kid in interviews.
MSU? MSU makes most guys look bad, LOL! 13th best AdjustedD in the nation!
That's not really relevant to my issues with him. Mobile right now, I'll elaborate later. He just has tunnel vision, does not even think about moving the ball.
#FreeChuckDiesel
Bucksmaniac wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm starting to sour on Giannis
RiotPunch wrote:I'll try to find some clips, but just my opinion watching more Gophers hoops than my eyes would care to. MIN @ MSU comes to mind off the top of my head.
He definitely seems like a good and humble kid in interviews.
MSU? MSU makes most guys look bad, LOL! 13th best AdjustedD in the nation!
That's not really relevant to my issues with him. Mobile right now, I'll elaborate later. He just has tunnel vision, does not even think about moving the ball.
Would love to hear that take with Oturu having a higher AST%.
getrichordie wrote: MSU? MSU makes most guys look bad, LOL! 13th best AdjustedD in the nation!
That's not really relevant to my issues with him. Mobile right now, I'll elaborate later. He just has tunnel vision, does not even think about moving the ball.
Would love to hear that take with Oturu having a higher AST%.
That is definitely not meant to be a Smith versus Oturu take, just a specific to Oturu flow of the game take. Neither of them are good passers. Although moving the ball doesn't equal assist % and Oturu is definitely more careless when he decides to try to pass.
#FreeChuckDiesel
Bucksmaniac wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm starting to sour on Giannis
Re-watched a bunch on Smith/Oturu tonight, and ended up lowering both and moving up Aaron Henry.
Their strengths and weaknesses are very similar, loose handle, prone to making bad decisions under pressure, lack of strength, etc. I just buy Jalen more as a finisher, shooter, and smart rotational rim protector. He has a quicker load time, quicker/more compact release (plus off movement shooting). Realizing that even having him at 35 was maybe too high though. Both pretty replaceable with FA vet min types, which is why I generally value bigs lower in general.
#FreeChuckDiesel
Bucksmaniac wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm starting to sour on Giannis
UcanUwill wrote:Just curious, how many picks, until you start considering Jokubaitis (he hasnt withdrawn yet)?
I have him late 2nd to undrafted.
Thats low considering he is more proven at Euroleague level than Bolmaro or Pokusevski, but I get it, his ceiling is not very high. That said, in a draft where Avdija is projected top 5, I can see Jokubaitis sneeking into first, unless non loterry talent is deep.
RiotPunch wrote:Re-watched a bunch on Smith/Oturu tonight, and ended up lowering both and moving up Aaron Henry.
Their strengths and weaknesses are very similar, loose handle, prone to making bad decisions under pressure, lack of strength, etc. I just buy Jalen more as a finisher, shooter, and smart rotational rim protector. He has a quicker load time, quicker/more compact release (plus off movement shooting). Realizing that even having him at 35 was maybe too high though. Both pretty replaceable with FA vet min types, which is why I generally value bigs lower in general.
Interesting. I think you can't expect prospects to be without flaws especially when you are talking about bigs.
I'll have to go back and watch some more tape of both. But I've had Oturu @ 40 and Smith @ 42. Smith's lower body also concerns me a great deal.
The fact some have Daniel Oturu undrafted when the same people claim Wiseman is a better prospect than the high iq Okongwu is hilarious to me. Oturu has actually shown better hops than Wiseman better mobility and has center length. And the funny part is they are both very similar ceiling rim running/protection lob catching average at best iq bigs who think they are 1st option embiid clones smh
SUNDOWN BRINGS A WELCOME CHANGE TO EVERYTHING THAT'S HIDING
Stillwater wrote:The fact some have Daniel Oturu undrafted when the same people claim Wiseman is a better prospect than the high iq Okongwu is hilarious to me. Oturu has actually shown better hops than Wiseman better mobility and has center length. And the funny part is they are both very similar ceiling rim running/protection lob catching average at best iq bigs who think they are 1st option embiid clones smh
This is a really bad take.
Oturu/Wiseman doesn't get to decide how his coach uses him at the college level.
UcanUwill wrote:Just curious, how many picks, until you start considering Jokubaitis (he hasnt withdrawn yet)?
I have him late 2nd to undrafted.
Thats low considering he is more proven at Euroleague level than Bolmaro or Pokusevski, but I get it, his ceiling is not very high. That said, in a draft where Avdija is projected top 5, I can see Jokubaitis sneeking into first, unless non loterry talent is deep.
Is he really more proven? He's not a very proven 3-pt shooter. He doesn't get much lift off the ground either.
His A/TO ratio is pretty poor for a ball-handler and he doesn't rack up a bunch of STOCKs.
He's not super athletic either.
He's definitely an interesting prospect to keep an eye on, though. He looks pretty comfortable with his off-hand and looks a bit craftier than other guards in this draft.
Late 2nd draft and stash flier makes the most sense to me as a best outcome.
I would take Rokas early 2nd and I think he doesn't stay but if he does he should go higher than late 2nd for sure, he is good and stashing adds value
He is more proven but dunno about much, I mean Rokas has barely played in EL either, he has played more in his team's national league, but LKL is like way, way, way worse than ACB so dunno what's the point there and Oly is in HEBA A2 now, so it's different for Poku
