2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s)

[Ruzious]

Both those guys look like they have a good shot to play in the league. I've been looking at Mason Jones for a while. Definitely like him.

Jones really does check a lot of boxes. With both of them, if they can improve their 3 point shooting, I'm not sure how they can miss. Both appear to be outstanding ball-handlers, fwiw.

After thinking it over, I think Riller has a little better chance to succeed in the NBA. Jones is reminding me of Jordan Adams of UCLA from a few years ago in his style of play - relying on strength over quickness - and not having much of a wiggle to his game. He's in that "archetype", and it was not effective for Adams in the NBA. Riller does have that wiggle and falls in the Lou Williams archetype that is successful in the NBA. I'm not writing off Jones as much as I'm liking Riller's chances.

[payitforward]

Makes sense -- but of course Riller has shortcomings as well.

Why we are discussing these guys in the R2 thread!

[Ruzious]

Makes sense -- but of course Riller has shortcomings as well.

Why we are discussing these guys in the R2 thread!

They are likely 2nd round picks. Again Riller - 23 years old (that's considered a negative outside this forum), regarded as awful on defense, tweener, doesn't have a particularly good 3, played for a mid-major.

[Ruzious]

Here's some eye-opening stuff about how a player slides in the draft - in particular how Malcolm Brogdon slipped to the 36th pick in the draft.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[payitforward]

Oh, that's great -- great stuff. Thanks for finding that, Ruz.

[pcbothwel]

Im growing on Desmond Bane https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/desmond-bane-1.html) from TCU. Don't mind at all that he is a senior. He's shown improvement every year and is shooting the ball really well from three. Think he fits the mold of a quality two way shooting guard if we need depth behind Beal. He's one of only a few people shooting over 40% from three with 1.5 steals per game in the country.

Good Call!!!
Bane looks like the prototypical 2-way wing that somehow gets undervalued (Hart, Butler, Crowder, etc.)
He's a Senior, but only 6 months older than Saddiq Bey (A Sophomore).

Tillman, Bane, Tre jones, and Bolmaro are leading my choice at 37... With Flynn, Tillie, Joe, and Sylla also interesting.

[payitforward]

Im growing on Desmond Bane https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/desmond-bane-1.html) from TCU. Don't mind at all that he is a senior. He's shown improvement every year and is shooting the ball really well from three. Think he fits the mold of a quality two way shooting guard if we need depth behind Beal. He's one of only a few people shooting over 40% from three with 1.5 steals per game in the country.

Good Call!!!
Bane looks like the prototypical 2-way wing that somehow gets undervalued (Hart, Butler, Crowder, etc.)
He's a Senior, but only 6 months older than Saddiq Bey (A Sophomore).

Tillman, Bane, Tre jones, and Bolmaro are leading my choice at 37... With Flynn, Tillie, Joe, and Sylla also interesting.

Agree about Desmond Bane -- played in a very tough conference & posted outstanding numbers.

[Ruzious]

We had talked about Bane before. Very strong player. Gotta see if his very short arms (6'4 wingspan) limit him, and does he have the lateral quickness to defend quicker 2's? He reminds me of Wes Matthews.

[payitforward]

For sure, but it's apparent there are a lot of things he can do that a lot of other guys cannot.

[Ruzious]

For sure, but it's apparent there are a lot of things he can do that a lot of other guys cannot.

Fun exercise (not just for Pif): If your choices are Bane or Riller, which do you choose?

[payitforward]

Oh come on, Ruz -- you know what I do!

Spoiler:

I trade down... obviously!

[wall_glizzy]

We had talked about Bane before. Very strong player. Gotta see if his very short arms (6'4 wingspan) limit him, and does he have the lateral quickness to defend quicker 2's? He reminds me of Wes Matthews.

The wingspan/defense relationship is well-established, but for Bane particularly I do want to take this opportunity to plug my (highly speculative) theory/observation about arm length and three point shooters. I've noticed that a lot of the league's elite floor spacers (Curry, Redick, Trae Young, Tyler Herro) tend to have shorter arms than average, and I'm starting to think there's something to that in allowing the players a quicker release due to the shorter range of motion.

While you're obviously giving up the KD-like unblockably high release, I think the gains in how quickly they can get shots off pay huge dividends in terms of expanding their game from pure catch-and-shoot to being able to capitalize on the much smaller windows that are open for shots taken off the dribble or from off-ball motion (as Bane does). I think that kind of potential is always worth a look even given the necessary trade-off on defensive versatility.

[Ruzious]

We had talked about Bane before. Very strong player. Gotta see if his very short arms (6'4 wingspan) limit him, and does he have the lateral quickness to defend quicker 2's? He reminds me of Wes Matthews.

The wingspan/defense relationship is well-established, but for Bane particularly I do want to take this opportunity to plug my (highly speculative) theory/observation about arm length and three point shooters. I've noticed that a lot of the league's elite floor spacers (Curry, Redick, Trae Young, Tyler Herro) tend to have shorter arms than average, and I'm starting to think there's something to that in allowing the players a quicker release due to the shorter range of motion.

While you're obviously giving up the KD-like unblockably high release, I think the gains in how quickly they can get shots off pay huge dividends in terms of expanding their game from pure catch-and-shoot to being able to capitalize on the much smaller windows that are open for shots taken off the dribble or from off-ball motion (as Bane does). I think that kind of potential is always worth a look even given the necessary trade-off on defensive versatility.

Could very well be. I think people with short arms (like me) have an advantage in weight lifting and pushups, because there's a shorter distance in each rep. It could be that same kind of principal.

And Bane's standing reach is only slightly lower than average for a guard, so he likely won't be prone to having his shot blocked. Where it could hurt him is his lateral d - he's not going to have the reach radius to deflect the ball.

[youngWizzy]

Posting this here as well.

Depending on how far he falls, I think Lamine Diane (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/lamine-diane-1.html) could be the steal of the draft. The skills are there and he is still relatively young (turning 23 in November). He was very productive but played in a weak conference. Again, the skills are there and I wouldn't mind taking a productive player with our r2 pick if he's available.

[Ruzious]

Posting this here as well.

Depending on how far he falls, I think Lamine Diane (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/lamine-diane-1.html) could be the steal of the draft. The skills are there and he is still relatively young (turning 23 in November). He was very productive but played in a weak conference. Again, the skills are there and I wouldn't mind taking a productive player with our r2 pick if he's available.

He sure is interesting. Moved from Senegal to the US at 15 to play HS basketball in Nevada. Didn't play for his college in his 1st year o f college - letting his wrist heal. Then he starred for his 1st 2 college seasons - so he has very little experience. He might be the best athlete in this draft. Needs a lot of coaching on his jump shot. His FT shooting improved, but he still needs to improve there - draws a lot of FT's. I'd put him in the G League for a season and see how he does - which might be spectacular. Have him work on him jump shot every single day.

[payitforward]

It'll be fascinating to follow this young man. Take him @ #37? No.

[payitforward]

Anyone looked at Nate Hinton? https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nate-hinton-1.html

...don't remember discussion here.

[Ruzious]

Anyone looked at Nate Hinton? https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nate-hinton-1.html

...don't remember discussion here.

No. I'm guessing you like him because of his rebound numbers. Not a very efficient scorer - made only 43% of his 2's. Looks like a poor man's Jem Jones to me.

[payitforward]

I don't even know if I like him, Ruz! That's why I posed it as a question.

For sure the rebounding jumps out at you. But, looking at the 2 guys' numbers, it seems that he's not much like Jemerrio Jones as a player.

JJ had almost 19 boards per 40 minutes his sophomore year! OTOH, he turned the ball over a lot, couldn't shoot the 3 at all, & also couldn't make FTs.

Hinton has had more steals than turnovers -- both years. You make a good point about his 2-point shooting, but 5 of his 11 shots per 40 minutes were 3-pointers, & those he hit at a .387 clip. Plus he shot .857 from the FT line as a Freshman (dropping to .759 this year). So maybe his shot isn't broken...?

[payitforward]

Ruz -- check this kid out, please. This is not about whether/when we or anyone else picks him; this is just about basketball:

Watch on YouTube

Plus... if you want to know why to believe this kid:

Watch on YouTube

I'd put money on this kid being an enormous success in life.