Potential sleepers

[BillessuR6]

I want Quickly at 26 or 30 for the Celtics. He would be a great addition to the bench. I think he will have a really nice career...

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[karkinos]

i dont really think hagans is that much better as a floor general than quickley who was the primary ball handler in HS. between the two, it makes more sense to play quickley off the ball because he can catch and shoot rather than trying to get hagans to attempt the same and probably fail.

[karkinos]

Quickly doesnt really have a high floor but his game is far from on full display. Definitely a solid starter potential pg with above average shooting.but most likely a bench scoring option at best as it pertains to draft stock.
His stock was hurt as a pg being the only guard between him Hagans and Maxey who can actually shoot. Granted the other 2 are better defenders maxey a better slasher Hagans the much better floor general etc id bet given some reps at the next level early on he can be just as impressive as graham was in Charlotte.

You severely underrate how good of a PG, Graham is. The issue with Quickley is he doesn't have a NBA position

fortunately in today's nba you don't need a real position.

[getrichordie]

Quickly doesnt really have a high floor but his game is far from on full display. Definitely a solid starter potential pg with above average shooting.but most likely a bench scoring option at best as it pertains to draft stock.
His stock was hurt as a pg being the only guard between him Hagans and Maxey who can actually shoot. Granted the other 2 are better defenders maxey a better slasher Hagans the much better floor general etc id bet given some reps at the next level early on he can be just as impressive as graham was in Charlotte.

You severely underrate how good of a PG, Graham is. The issue with Quickley is he doesn't have a NBA position

fortunately in today's nba you don't need a real position.

I get that there is this whole positionless basketball trend happening, but what's Quickley's role in the NBA? He's a super late 2nd flier at best for someone looking for shooting but he would need to be playing at the 1 next to a LeBron or something which isn't likely.

And at that point, I'd just rather take Markus Howard.

[King Ken]

Quickly doesnt really have a high floor but his game is far from on full display. Definitely a solid starter potential pg with above average shooting.but most likely a bench scoring option at best as it pertains to draft stock.
His stock was hurt as a pg being the only guard between him Hagans and Maxey who can actually shoot. Granted the other 2 are better defenders maxey a better slasher Hagans the much better floor general etc id bet given some reps at the next level early on he can be just as impressive as graham was in Charlotte.

You severely underrate how good of a PG, Graham is. The issue with Quickley is he doesn't have a NBA position

fortunately in today's nba you don't need a real position.

Who told you that? Positionless Basketball is limited depending on your size

[clyde21]

Quickly doesnt really have a high floor but his game is far from on full display. Definitely a solid starter potential pg with above average shooting.but most likely a bench scoring option at best as it pertains to draft stock.
His stock was hurt as a pg being the only guard between him Hagans and Maxey who can actually shoot. Granted the other 2 are better defenders maxey a better slasher Hagans the much better floor general etc id bet given some reps at the next level early on he can be just as impressive as graham was in Charlotte.

You severely underrate how good of a PG, Graham is. The issue with Quickley is he doesn't have a NBA position

fortunately in today's nba you don't need a real position.

positionless basketball doesn't mean you can put players wherever you want, there are still roles, archetypes, scheme fits, etc.

[karkinos]

You severely underrate how good of a PG, Graham is. The issue with Quickley is he doesn't have a NBA position

fortunately in today's nba you don't need a real position.

positionless basketball doesn't mean you can put players wherever you want, there are still roles, archetypes, scheme fits, etc.

i think you're blowing my words out of proportion

i understood his words to mean he doesn't have a true traditional skill set ie. pure point, true shooting guard, etc.

he can be a tweener sg just like any of the many that have come before him. he's already a good catch and shoot 3 point shooter so if he gets drafted to a system team, he has a role. everyone here acting like they never seen a 6'3" guard at the 2 spot or like we haven't seen undersized back court duos before. if his floor is a plug in catch and shoot guy, there is and always will be a need for that in the league.

[getrichordie]

fortunately in today's nba you don't need a real position.

positionless basketball doesn't mean you can put players wherever you want, there are still roles, archetypes, scheme fits, etc.

i think you're blowing my words out of proportion

i understood his words to mean he doesn't have a true traditional skill set ie. pure point, true shooting guard, etc.

he can be a tweener sg just like any of the many that have come before him. he's already a good catch and shoot 3 point shooter so if he gets drafted to a system team, he has a role. everyone here acting like they never seen a 6'3" guard at the 2 spot or like we haven't seen undersized back court duos before. if his floor is a plug in catch and shoot guy, there is and always will be a need for that in the league.

Like I said before, he could probably find a role on a team desperate for shooting. He's going to be a big liability on D. He hasn't shown a ton of deep range though probably can hit 3s off C&S and off-ball screens at a good rate. He is a terrible finisher at the rim and isn't going to be a threat to attack at all.

There's plenty of good 3-point shooters that have went undrafted due to lack of size for their role, or for the fact that they don't add much value elsewhere outside of shooting.

He's basically a version of Bryn Forbes/Bryce Alford which not a lot of teams would covet, IMO.

[karkinos]

positionless basketball doesn't mean you can put players wherever you want, there are still roles, archetypes, scheme fits, etc.

i think you're blowing my words out of proportion

i understood his words to mean he doesn't have a true traditional skill set ie. pure point, true shooting guard, etc.

he can be a tweener sg just like any of the many that have come before him. he's already a good catch and shoot 3 point shooter so if he gets drafted to a system team, he has a role. everyone here acting like they never seen a 6'3" guard at the 2 spot or like we haven't seen undersized back court duos before. if his floor is a plug in catch and shoot guy, there is and always will be a need for that in the league.

Like I said before, he could probably find a role on a team desperate for shooting. He's going to be a big liability on D. He hasn't shown a ton of deep range though probably can hit 3s off C&S and off-ball screens at a good rate. He is a terrible finisher at the rim and isn't going to be a threat to attack at all.

There's plenty of good 3-point shooters that have went undrafted due to lack of size for their role, or for the fact that they don't add much value elsewhere outside of shooting.

He's basically a version of Bryn Forbes/Bryce Alford which not a lot of teams would covet, IMO.

or he could be the mavs version of jason terry *shrug*
he's a better defender than monk so he's not going to be as bad as you think
like i said originally, i value guys that can last beyond their rookie contract. statistically most don't so in my eyes it makes sense to draft him higher for longevity. when factoring attrition of draft picks, the value of the draft pick is much greater if you can just pick someone who can make it to the second contract

on average, if out of a 60 player draft, 39 play 1 nba season and just 12 ever average more than 10 ppg, pick out of your big board which is most likely. quickley may not be in most people's top 12 now, but i think people will reconsider his chances and at least move him up the board as an outside shot.

[getrichordie]

i think you're blowing my words out of proportion

i understood his words to mean he doesn't have a true traditional skill set ie. pure point, true shooting guard, etc.

he can be a tweener sg just like any of the many that have come before him. he's already a good catch and shoot 3 point shooter so if he gets drafted to a system team, he has a role. everyone here acting like they never seen a 6'3" guard at the 2 spot or like we haven't seen undersized back court duos before. if his floor is a plug in catch and shoot guy, there is and always will be a need for that in the league.

Like I said before, he could probably find a role on a team desperate for shooting. He's going to be a big liability on D. He hasn't shown a ton of deep range though probably can hit 3s off C&S and off-ball screens at a good rate. He is a terrible finisher at the rim and isn't going to be a threat to attack at all.

There's plenty of good 3-point shooters that have went undrafted due to lack of size for their role, or for the fact that they don't add much value elsewhere outside of shooting.

He's basically a version of Bryn Forbes/Bryce Alford which not a lot of teams would covet, IMO.

or he could be the mavs version of jason terry *shrug*
he's a better defender than monk so he's not going to be as bad as you think
like i said originally, i value guys that can last beyond their rookie contract. statistically most don't so in my eyes it makes sense to draft him higher for longevity. when factoring attrition of draft picks, the value of the draft pick is much greater if you can just pick someone who can make it to the second contract

on average, if out of a 60 player draft, 39 play 1 nba season and just 12 ever average more than 10 ppg, pick out of your big board which is most likely. quickley may not be in most people's top 12 now, but i think people will reconsider his chances and at least move him up the board as an outside shot.

Terry had pull-up ability and could actually handle the ball and pass. Quickley doesn't possess those same abilities.

[getrichordie]

I'm curious to hear what everyone thinks about Kristian Doolittle out of Oklahoma.

6'7" big 3&D wing (>230 lbs) who shot it well from mid-range and deep this year and put up some good defensive metrics. Struggled to finish at the rim as a higher-usage guy, but on lower usage last year, he finished >60% at the rim.

I really like what I'm seeing on film from him. Good size and solid athleticism and his touch really stands out to the point where you feel confident he's going to be able to get baskets at the next level.

Needs to tighten up his handle but he had stretches where he looked smooth and under control.

[karkinos]

Like I said before, he could probably find a role on a team desperate for shooting. He's going to be a big liability on D. He hasn't shown a ton of deep range though probably can hit 3s off C&S and off-ball screens at a good rate. He is a terrible finisher at the rim and isn't going to be a threat to attack at all.

There's plenty of good 3-point shooters that have went undrafted due to lack of size for their role, or for the fact that they don't add much value elsewhere outside of shooting.

He's basically a version of Bryn Forbes/Bryce Alford which not a lot of teams would covet, IMO.

or he could be the mavs version of jason terry *shrug*
he's a better defender than monk so he's not going to be as bad as you think
like i said originally, i value guys that can last beyond their rookie contract. statistically most don't so in my eyes it makes sense to draft him higher for longevity. when factoring attrition of draft picks, the value of the draft pick is much greater if you can just pick someone who can make it to the second contract

on average, if out of a 60 player draft, 39 play 1 nba season and just 12 ever average more than 10 ppg, pick out of your big board which is most likely. quickley may not be in most people's top 12 now, but i think people will reconsider his chances and at least move him up the board as an outside shot.

Terry had pull-up ability and could actually handle the ball and pass. Quickley doesn't possess those same abilities.

never said he has to have them now
players can grow

[getrichordie]

or he could be the mavs version of jason terry *shrug*
he's a better defender than monk so he's not going to be as bad as you think
like i said originally, i value guys that can last beyond their rookie contract. statistically most don't so in my eyes it makes sense to draft him higher for longevity. when factoring attrition of draft picks, the value of the draft pick is much greater if you can just pick someone who can make it to the second contract

on average, if out of a 60 player draft, 39 play 1 nba season and just 12 ever average more than 10 ppg, pick out of your big board which is most likely. quickley may not be in most people's top 12 now, but i think people will reconsider his chances and at least move him up the board as an outside shot.

Terry had pull-up ability and could actually handle the ball and pass. Quickley doesn't possess those same abilities.

never said he has to have them now
players can grow

That's a bit simplistic, but you are totally right, they can grow.

But adding all of that to his game is A LOT of growth. From AAU to where is he now, he has shown no/little improvement in any of those skills. The other part of this is he has to have be given the green light to pull-up, handle the ball, run P&Rs, etc. to improve his game. He needs a lot of reps. Maybe he gets drafted late 2nd and they send him to G-League and work with him, but he's got a big hill to climb to even be a back-up guard.

[Stillwater]

Quickley remains a sleeper by the looks of it. This kid had more than fifteen Division I offers backed it up his soph season as the best guard on the roster by a mile was the clear vocal leader directing other guards that cant shoot for **** where to pass or be while he was playing off ball
and the lethal streaks he is capable of are definitely going to get him 1st round looks.
His defense is solid his finishing is good enough etc.
It might take getting stronger to finish better and improve defense but hes definitely skilled enough slready easily creating opportunities off ball fir his point guards in collefe to be a legit point guard himself in the nba

[karkinos]

Terry had pull-up ability and could actually handle the ball and pass. Quickley doesn't possess those same abilities.

never said he has to have them now
players can grow

That's a bit simplistic, but you are totally right, they can grow.

But adding all of that to his game is A LOT of growth. From AAU to where is he now, he has shown no/little improvement in any of those skills. The other part of this is he has to have be given the green light to pull-up, handle the ball, run P&Rs, etc. to improve his game. He needs a lot of reps. Maybe he gets drafted late 2nd and they send him to G-League and work with him, but he's got a big hill to climb to even be a back-up guard.

well
the original main contention was what position is he
i pointed out the jet as an undersized 2 and now it seems like the goal posts keep moving. here's what i'm trying to say. he doesn't have the pull up or playmaking ability like the jet. NOT the point. he doesn't have to turn out like jeff teague because again, that's NOT the point. he can shoot as an undersized 2 and a lot of the mavs success with the jet was his ability to catch and shoot and is an excellent example of how to play off the ball without being ball dominant. there is a system for him out there and it's not just one system.
i've brought up a lot of players he could become if he develops more skills, but whether or not he ever attains those milestones is not the point at all. again, NOT really focused on his ceiling or what skills he is missing.

the entire argument for drafting him higher than most project him to be, as i said before, is based on the probability that he will earn a second or a third contract and my calculations have always heavily weighted those odds towards those with what i consider to be a high floor. if he is deemed skilled enough and worthy to have a second or third contract, he continues to be an asset that can help his team directly or indirectly via trade. teams who draft and cannot trade the talent they draft have netted a return of zero. we will disagree that his catch and shoot shooting alone is enough to consider him a high floor player. fine. but i really don't want to continue to have to counter these tangent points of why he isn't like X or Y or Z undersized 2 since those really aren't the focus of my argument for drafting him nor does he have to be an exact replica of those players to succeed.

SEC player of the year, 40% 3 pt shooter, 90% FT shooter
conference stats this year TS 62%, 48% from 3, PER 23, and 7 FTA per game. he shows up when it matters. while everyone is high on maxey, UK fans remember the year 2020 as quick and nick. maxey isn't even the headliner.

[karkinos]

not gonna write too much about anthony cowan jr but if anyone pulls up his highlights, his dribbling, quickness, and arsenal of moves to get to the rim are eye candy.
not a great shooter but might be one of the underrated playmakers and passers of this draft. he's too good to go undrafted imo. maryland's team was highly successful despite his not so great shooting percentages.

[getrichordie]

never said he has to have them now
players can grow

That's a bit simplistic, but you are totally right, they can grow.

But adding all of that to his game is A LOT of growth. From AAU to where is he now, he has shown no/little improvement in any of those skills. The other part of this is he has to have be given the green light to pull-up, handle the ball, run P&Rs, etc. to improve his game. He needs a lot of reps. Maybe he gets drafted late 2nd and they send him to G-League and work with him, but he's got a big hill to climb to even be a back-up guard.

well
the original main contention was what position is he
i pointed out the jet as an undersized 2 and now it seems like the goal posts keep moving. here's what i'm trying to say. he doesn't have the pull up or playmaking ability like the jet. NOT the point. he doesn't have to turn out like jeff teague because again, that's NOT the point. he can shoot as an undersized 2 and a lot of the mavs success with the jet was his ability to catch and shoot and is an excellent example of how to play off the ball without being ball dominant. there is a system for him out there and it's not just one system.
i've brought up a lot of players he could become if he develops more skills, but whether or not he ever attains those milestones is not the point at all. again, NOT really focused on his ceiling or what skills he is missing.

the entire argument for drafting him higher than most project him to be, as i said before, is based on the probability that he will earn a second or a third contract and my calculations have always heavily weighted those odds towards those with what i consider to be a high floor. if he is deemed skilled enough and worthy to have a second or third contract, he continues to be an asset that can help his team directly or indirectly via trade. teams who draft and cannot trade the talent they draft have netted a return of zero. we will disagree that his catch and shoot shooting alone is enough to consider him a high floor player. fine. but i really don't want to continue to have to counter these tangent points of why he isn't like X or Y or Z undersized 2 since those really aren't the focus of my argument for drafting him nor does he have to be an exact replica of those players to succeed.

SEC player of the year, 40% 3 pt shooter, 90% FT shooter
conference stats this year TS 62%, 48% from 3, PER 23, and 7 FTA per game. he shows up when it matters. while everyone is high on maxey, UK fans remember the year 2020 as quick and nick. maxey isn't even the headliner.

1. Who the hell cares what UK fans remember?

2. When you say things like he could be Jason Terry, you are entirely dismissing the other things that Terry brought to the table that made him valuable.

3. Let's say he is Bryn Forbes since they are very similar players. In fact, let's say he's a little better. He's still not as valuable as you are making him out to be.

[getrichordie]

WOAH

Read on Twitter

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[getrichordie]

I'm kind of starting to think that Oturu is entering sleeper territory. I personally think his ceiling is pretty high for a big.

6'10" + 7'3" ws + 240 lbs + good frame and is pretty mobile. Video and notes below.

KEY STATS as Soph

Spoiler:

11.1 BPM
61.2 TS%
36.5% on 3s (first season actually shooting decent volume for big; shot 2 as frosh)
70.7% FT shooter (much improved from last year's figure of 61.5%)
14.7 TOV% (solid for a big)
23.3 DRB% (good)
12 ORB% (good)
7.1 BLK%
7.9 AST% (not terrible for a big)

...

VIDEO

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

notes

@0:57 — Starting from perimeter, drives right by Trayce Jackson-Davis to finish at the rim with off-hand while under control and showcases dribble drive skills which isn't common for bigs his size.

@1:03 — Drives w/ similar-sized Micah Potter guarding him out at perimeter and crosses him to get to the basket and hits a difficult fall away one-handed bank shot.

@1:16 — Catches ball out at perimeter and absolutely blows by Jon Teske for the easy finish.

@1:50 — After getting back in transition and settling into paint, Oturu times the guard's layup attempt perfectly to get a clean block. Easy $.

@2:00 — While getting back in transition, Oturu reads the 6'6" Seth Lundy's layup attempt perfectly and blocks the crap out of it with BOTH hands. Look where his hands are at.



@2:05 — Here's another impressive block showcasing good timing. The 6'7" Kopp beats his man, leaving Oturu as the last line of defense. Kopp attempts a layup only to have his layup rejected with 2 hands.



@2:10 — Jackson-Davis tries to back down Oturu and Oturu gives up little ground and rejects Jackson-Davis' shot attempt w/o jumping, showcasing his post defense potential.

@2:18 — Garza attempts to back down Oturu in the post and is a little bit more successful in gaining ground due to size (260 lbs) only to have his shot rejected and Oturu is also quick to secure the loose ball.

@2:28 — Lamar Stevens faces up w/ Oturu defending and attempts to drive baseline. Oturu shuts him down and gets the stuff.

@2:34 — Oturu is on an island versus a guard and does an pretty solid job defending him, which leads to a missed mid-range attempt. LOOK AT THAT FOOTWORK. He looks like a safety backpedaling.

@2:46 — Oturu short closes on the corner and his man tries to drive by him and Oturu tracks him all the way to the basket for the block. Again, we see excellent timing and shot blocking instincts by Oturu.

[BlazersBroncos]

I think Oturu is slightly ahead of a Kabengele caliber big, so probably a top 20-22 pick IMO. He has a surprising stroke but what I may like the most is that near 4 ORPG stat. Love guys that can get second possessions and ORB are a great indicator of motor IMO.

Not many teams need a center only prospect, but with his shooting abilities and rebounding he makes a nice fit in Dallas. Their offense sorta requires everyone to be able to space the floor for Luka, and Oturu can do that decently well if the 0.6 3PG isn't a fluke. And his rebounding would be welcome on a team with mediocre rebounders like Zinger and Powell starting.