REDOING THE NBA HALL OF FAME (retired today)

Post #21 » by **penbeast0** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:04 pm

I don't know, I figured we should do one more for active players maybe?

Post #22 » by **penbeast0** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:19 pm

Votes through Dutchball97:

Duncan (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)
Kobe (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)
Garnett (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)
Dirk (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)
Wade (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)

Manu (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)
Pierce (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)
Chris Bosh (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)
Vince Carter (penbeast0, trex_8063, Narigo, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)

Tony Parker (penbeast0, trex_8063, Dr Positivity, eminence, Doctor MJ, Dutchball97, Ryoga Hibiki)

Elton Brand (Narigo)

Post #23 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:29 pm

penbeast0 wrote:I don't know, I figured we should do one more for active players maybe?

Okay here’s a proposal then:

We do a Projected Hall of Fame follow-on project. This would be our estimations of who we think we will see as the most worthy guys by that time based on projecting incomplete careers.

I’d propose age 40 as the eligibility marker. We could do that I think out to 2035 at least, maybe even 2040 (which would include Luka and Zion).

Edit:

Something I haven’t said but should is that I think project has been fantastic. Best thing I’ve participated in in years. Thank you for coming up with it beast!

I’ll also say that frankly it’s been sucking up too much of my time. I need to detach a bit, but a Projected follow on wouldn’t require the same careful research. For this project I agonized about getting stuff wrong. For a Projected I just know I’ll be a wrong a lot up front.

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Post #24 » by **penbeast0** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Tell you what, you do that one and I'll do one more for this of active players if the NBA quit playing forever.

Post #25 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:32 am

penbeast0 wrote:Tell you what, you do that one and I'll do one more for this of active players if the NBA quit playing forever.

Cool. I'm going to wait until yours are done and see if there's interest.

Post #26 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:44 am

So thinking on it a bit more and I think I have to go with the obvious non-Pau class:

Kevin Garnett - transformational player
Tim Duncan - fulcrum of the second greatest franchise run in NBA history (#1 Russell Celtics)
Kobe Bryant - the iconic athlete of the class
Dirk Nowitzki - transformational player
Dwyane Wade - the first Heatle

Paul Pierce - a career that checks all the boxes
Manu Ginobili - a fascinating unique player, essential partner to Duncan
Tony Parker - essential partner to Duncan
Chris Bosh - Heatle, proven to be able to adapt and adapt back, but cut short
Vince Carter - a flawed career, but he still accomplished quite a lot, and has an iconic story to tell

Regarding "King of the Class":

I'm most impressed with KG as a player
Most smart basketball people are most impressed with Duncan as a player
Fans are most impressed with Kobe as a hero/role model/god

To be honest, I think I'm going to go with Spurs colors on this one, but I feel a bit sheepish about not picking Kobe's team.

eminence · Post #27 » by **eminence** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:51 am

Bosh/Carter don't officially have my vote yet, I'm debating at least a couple of the older guys against them (Penny one of my personal favorites)

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #28 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:08 am

Ok, changing Pau with Vince, I can't imagine people voting differently so very curious to see the arguments.

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Ryoga Hibiki · Post #29 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:10 am

Narigo wrote:Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwyane Wade
Manu Ginobili
Vince Carter
Chris Bosh
Paul Pierce
Pau Gasol(Edit: Elton Brand)

Brand over Parker?
Is it a mistake?
If not, could you elaborate please?

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Dutchball97 · Post #30 » by **Dutchball97** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:57 am

Okay changed my vote from Pau to Carter so that should be good now, right?

I'm also in favor of the active player vote next. There is too much talent that have already done enough for the hall still active right now not to do it imo.

Post #31 » by **penbeast0** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:02 pm

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:This class it's really too strong, even deeper than the previous one.
The top8 are locks in every class, but I would have easily voted Parker, Bosh and Carter in any of the last 5 ballots.
Probably keeping Bosh and Parker.

This is your only prior post, I don't have a list from you yet.

Post #32 » by **trex_8063** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:20 pm

penbeast0 wrote:.

Doctor MJ wrote:.

Thanks pen for authoring and chairing this project. And thanks Doc for doing the spreadsheet and [imo] being the project MVP in terms of content/discussion provided.

It's been a cool project, and I think there's been some substantial worthwhile discussion and arguments made for or about several noteworthy players (Tom Heinsohn, Elvin Hayes, Walt Bellamy, Dominique Wilkins, Horace Grant, Tracy McGrady, Baron Davis....to name a few).

It's been fun debating or exchanging thoughts with you, Doc. In keeping with our history we perhaps tend to disagree more than agree, but always in a good-natured and hopefully mutually beneficial way. I like being put upon to look at certain players in a different light, and though I don't agree with you wholesale [likely never will], it's discussions like we've had that shift my opinions on players by small nudging degrees (something that's happened repeatedly over the years on this forum).

Post #33 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:39 pm

trex_8063 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:.

Doctor MJ wrote:.

Thanks pen for authoring and chairing this project. And thanks Doc for doing the spreadsheet and [imo] being the project MVP in terms of content/discussion provided.

It's been a cool project, and I think there's been some substantial worthwhile discussion and arguments made for or about several noteworthy players (Tom Heinsohn, Elvin Hayes, Walt Bellamy, Dominique Wilkins, Horace Grant, Tracy McGrady, Baron Davis....to name a few).

It's been fun debating or exchanging thoughts with you, Doc. In keeping with our history we perhaps tend to disagree more than agree, but always in a good-natured and hopefully mutually beneficial way. I like being put upon to look at certain players in a different light, and though I don't agree with you wholesale [likely never will], it's discussions like we've had that shift my opinions on players by small nudging degrees (something that's happened repeatedly over the years on this forum).

Thank you for your kind words, and I want to be clear that I really enjoy being in projects with you as well as basically the whole core of posters who participated here. I know I get grumpy sometimes, but that's on me.

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #34 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:18 am

penbeast0 wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:This class it's really too strong, even deeper than the previous one.
The top8 are locks in every class, but I would have easily voted Parker, Bosh and Carter in any of the last 5 ballots.
Probably keeping Bosh and Parker.

This is your only prior post, I don't have a list from you yet.

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwyane Wade
Manu Ginobili
Vince Carter
Chris Bosh
Paul Pierce
Tony Parker

I think it's difficult to argue for a different list.

Narigo · Post #35 » by **Narigo** » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:50 am

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
Narigo wrote:Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Dwyane Wade
Manu Ginobili
Vince Carter
Chris Bosh
Paul Pierce
Pau Gasol(Edit: Elton Brand)

Brand over Parker?
Is it a mistake?
If not, could you elaborate please?

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Yikes forgot about Parker

Dr Positivity · Post #36 » by **Dr Positivity** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:14 am

Due to needing to get to ten players in the earlier ballots, it was nice to learn a few new things after being here 10+ years.

PistolPeteJR · Post #37 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:40 am

FWIW, if y’all need more votes here, I’m in, but it seems this is more or less wrapped up, and great job guys! I have Carter over Pau myself, though it’s very close.

I’d love to participate in the active players project to come, just keep me posted!:)

Post #38 » by **penbeast0** » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:45 pm

PistolPeteJR wrote:FWIW, if y’all need more votes here, I’m in, but it seems this is more or less wrapped up, and great job guys! I have Carter over Pau myself, though it’s very close.

I’d love to participate in the active players project to come, just keep me posted!:)

Active players is up, it closes tonight.

Post #39 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:24 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Due to needing to get to ten players in the earlier ballots, it was nice to learn a few new things after being here 10+ years.

You know what, this is really true. At first I didn't like the idea of going 10 deep for every 5 years, but it pushed me to dig deeper into earlier eras than I had done before, and learns some cool things.