OT: COVID-19 thread #2

[dice]

obama +6

bush sr. -10
carter -20

Not sure where you're getting this +6 on Obama.

approve minus disapprove. has nothing to do with election polling

[dice]

perot did not have a political party

Sure he did. He only officially announced he was a supporter of the republican party in 2000. He was always leaning republican.

you said he was trying to create a 3rd party. i was merely pointing out that he ran as an independent, which is not a third party. he did create the reform party in the NEXT election, when he was an afterthought

[musiqsoulchild]

Would you rather 100% support a candidate who has an agenda that covers 70% of what you ean to see?

I haven't made a decision yet. I live in one of the big swing states and I voted Gary Johnson in 2016 but I won't be doing that again. There are more "Green' and "Libertian" supporters than ever before but in a general election as of now they stand no chance. It would be nice to have a 4 party system it would fix alot of issues but it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Since I don't like either politician, I am going to do the Tim Pool approach / what many moderates are likely to do and that is wait and see what happens on the debate stage and go with the one who has the best 4 year plan with policies. If Joe goes far left and/or starts flip flopping, I'm out. I'll have to vote Trump and just put up with 4 years of nothing getting done with the house blocking him which is better than radical policies potentially being implemented. If Joe presents decent policies that I can see passed by congress, Ill go with Joe. I'm not going to just give in and vote Joe to get rid of Trump. That's ridiculous. He should earn our vote.

So, you'll be voting for Trump most likely. And that's your prerogative.

[Red8911]

as for nikki haley, trump attacked her for requesting that he release his taxes while a candidate. then when he won the nomination she said she'd vote for him but was "not a fan." of course, after elected, trump then made her ambassador to the UN. so i don't think her relationship w/ trump would hurt her

I don't think Nikki Haley deep down is a Trump supporter. She didn't support him when he was running in 2016 and demanded he release his tax returns. There were discussions about Trump replacing Pence with her for the VP spot in 2020 but I don't think she would consider that and get a potentially bad rep which is the right move. However politics is and should be all about adjustments. Sometimes you have to agree and give into things you don't necessarily support.

If you remember a lot of Republicans were going against trump when he first started running. Trump even had to fight against his own party to become president, that’s why it was even more impressive that he won and shows that people love him.

[dougthonus]

I'll have to vote Trump and just put up with 4 years of nothing getting done with the house blocking him which is better than radical policies potentially being implemented. If Joe presents decent policies that I can see passed by congress, Ill go with Joe. I'm not going to just give in and vote Joe to get rid of Trump. That's ridiculous. He should earn our vote.

I would absolutely vote for four years of no policy changes at all over having Trump in office. I do think it's a shame the democrats put Biden up there. I don't know of anyone who is excited about Biden, I don't know how they do these polls, but I think think they end up with someone like Biden winning because his name is recognizable and people are stupid and will vote over such things. That said, that might hold true even all the way to the final election.

[TheStig]

I agree, except I think the incumbent has an advantage. Clinton, Bush and Obama all got 2 terms.

and Bush senior lost because well you can debate if Perot was the reason or not. Perot who died last year was a republican who gave it his best effort to transform our political system into a 3 party system.

I agree but there is no Perot. Mitt Romney or Mark Cuban aren't running as the 3rd party. That would be the equivlent.

That The last 3 presidents got 2 terms. I think it's a distinct advantage.

[TheStig]

Would you rather 100% support a candidate who has an agenda that covers 70% of what you ean to see?

I haven't made a decision yet. I live in one of the big swing states and I voted Gary Johnson in 2016 but I won't be doing that again. There are more "Green' and "Libertian" supporters than ever before but in a general election as of now they stand no chance. It would be nice to have a 4 party system it would fix alot of issues but it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Since I don't like either politician, I am going to do the Tim Pool approach / what many moderates are likely to do and that is wait and see what happens on the debate stage and go with the one who has the best 4 year plan with policies. If Joe goes far left and/or starts flip flopping, I'm out. I'll have to vote Trump and just put up with 4 years of nothing getting done with the house blocking him which is better than radical policies potentially being implemented. If Joe presents decent policies that I can see passed by congress, Ill go with Joe. I'm not going to just give in and vote Joe to get rid of Trump. That's ridiculous. He should earn our vote.

So, you'll be voting for Trump most likely. And that's your prerogative.

I think you're underestimating how vulnerable Biden is during a 2-3 hour debate and how little he actually stands for. I've never seen a candidate actually yield his time in a debate till Biden did it.

I'm not pro Biden or pro Trump. I don't like either of them.

[TheStig]

Privately the senate is working on getting dirt against Biden right now. It's not being talked about but eventually closer to the election they'll go all out on Biden. Simply put Biden has an uphill battle to go himself and who knows how this is going to pan out.

This is the most unpredictable election possibly in our lifetime. From the senate, to house to the white house, we really don't truly know the outcome of what's going to happen. 2020 has been one of the darkest years ever and I personally think it's going to get worse as we start getting closer to election time. I don't think experts or polls should even be looked at and I'm giving 50-50 odds to both parties right now.

I agree, except I think the incumbent has an advantage. Clinton, Bush and Obama all got 2 terms.

all were popular presidents when re-elected

approval ratings heading into re-election bid:

ike +60
johnson +53
truman +35
roosevelt +34 (third re-election)
nixon +34
reagan +30
clinton +18
ford +15 (lost re-election, but not seen as rightful office holder to begin with)
dubya +9
obama +6

bush sr. -10
carter -20

popular presidents get a second term almost by definition. unpopular presidents usually don't. donald trump has NEVER hit 50% job approval and he is currently about 14 points underwater. he was even worse off heading into the last election, but clinton was almost as bad. biden is barely underwater over the last several weeks

Fair point but I do still think being an incumbent has value. Maybe not as much as the others but still some value.

[Ccwatercraft]

Option A: An older bought politician that has a history of racist issues, sexual allegations, corruption and failed presidential runs with very limited accomplishments.

Option B: A young ambitious politician that has no history of issues and has a great plan moving forward.

Option B was essentially Obama in 2008 which is why he won by a huge margin over a well respected McCain. Option A is Biden. Who you taking? Obviously the majority will go with Option B.

I honestly didnt think it was possible to put up a candidate worse than Hillary, yet the dem's pulled it off quite spectacularly and somehow talked the other candidates into walking away.

the voters made these decisions, not the party. nobody ended their campaign who was still a viable candidate. and bernie again stuck around well past his expiration date

as for hillary, she has gotten more votes than her opponent in every election she has ever run in. including against obama in the 2008 primaries

right, Dems. Dem voters, Dem party, whatever.

The bottom line is that the worst possible candidate was chosen, he's in severe mental decline and no longer capable of handling the job he's running for. Its obvious to most of us paying attention, and will become obvious to the rest as time goes on.

[_txchilibowl_]

Seems like Florida could've used a few more mask wearers....

[Dresden]

Even if Biden is in mental decline, he's still 10x better than Trump. Listen to Trump try to put together a sentence- he has trouble doing it. he is constantly mispronouncing words and getting facts wrong.

I honestly believe if Hillary were president, we'd have seen far fewer American deaths from COVID. Right now, we are 5% of the population, and have 24% of the world's COVID deaths. That's outrageous, for a country that is supposed to have the best medical system in the world.

[Jeffster81]

Even if Biden is in mental decline, he's still 10x better than Trump. Listen to Trump try to put together a sentence- he has trouble doing it. he is constantly mispronouncing words and getting facts wrong.

I honestly believe if Hillary were president, we'd have seen far fewer American deaths from COVID. Right now, we are 5% of the population, and have 24% of the world's COVID deaths. That's outrageous, for a country that is supposed to have the best medical system in the world.

Hillary could not beat Obama. Like Trump, Hillary should be in prison. So she, imo, was never a viable option. Trump is an idiot but Biden is not the answer either. I don't have the answer but apparently neither do the Hypocrats or the Bloodicans.

[TheEndIsNigh]

as for nikki haley, trump attacked her for requesting that he release his taxes while a candidate. then when he won the nomination she said she'd vote for him but was "not a fan." of course, after elected, trump then made her ambassador to the UN. so i don't think her relationship w/ trump would hurt her

I don't think Nikki Haley deep down is a Trump supporter. She didn't support him when he was running in 2016 and demanded he release his tax returns. There were discussions about Trump replacing Pence with her for the VP spot in 2020 but I don't think she would consider that and get a potentially bad rep which is the right move. However politics is and should be all about adjustments. Sometimes you have to agree and give into things you don't necessarily support.

If you remember a lot of Republicans were going against trump when he first started running. Trump even had to fight against his own party to become president, that’s why it was even more impressive that he won and shows that people love him.

That is not what it shows.

[moorhosj]

The bottom line is that the worst possible candidate was chosen, he's in severe mental decline and no longer capable of handling the job he's running for. Its obvious to most of us paying attention, and will become obvious to the rest as time goes on.

Which candidate are you talking about here?

[Dresden]

Even if Biden is in mental decline, he's still 10x better than Trump. Listen to Trump try to put together a sentence- he has trouble doing it. he is constantly mispronouncing words and getting facts wrong.

I honestly believe if Hillary were president, we'd have seen far fewer American deaths from COVID. Right now, we are 5% of the population, and have 24% of the world's COVID deaths. That's outrageous, for a country that is supposed to have the best medical system in the world.

Hillary could not beat Obama. Like Trump, Hillary should be in prison. So she, imo, was never a viable option. Trump is an idiot but Biden is not the answer either. I don't have the answer but apparently neither do the Hypocrats or the Bloodicans.

What did Hillary do that she should be put in prison? Her emails? Colin Powell admitted to doing the same thing. Trump's daughter was recently caught doing the same thing.

[coldfish]

Even if Biden is in mental decline, he's still 10x better than Trump. Listen to Trump try to put together a sentence- he has trouble doing it. he is constantly mispronouncing words and getting facts wrong.

I honestly believe if Hillary were president, we'd have seen far fewer American deaths from COVID. Right now, we are 5% of the population, and have 24% of the world's COVID deaths. That's outrageous, for a country that is supposed to have the best medical system in the world.

1. A box of chicken mcnuggets would have outperformed Trump on this.

2. We don't have 24% of the world's deaths. We have 24% of the world's reported deaths. We are underreporting in places like Florida and so is Europe. That said, China, Iran, Russia and many others are taking that game to a completely different level.

3. We actually completely botched H1N1 and West Nile too. We didn't even know it until later but a very large number of people got infected. We just handled it so poorly we didn't know that the diseases were pretty mild. The CDC has been a problem for a long time but just hadn't been tested hard enough for us to see it.

[coldfish]

I honestly didnt think it was possible to put up a candidate worse than Hillary, yet the dem's pulled it off quite spectacularly and somehow talked the other candidates into walking away.

the voters made these decisions, not the party. nobody ended their campaign who was still a viable candidate. and bernie again stuck around well past his expiration date

as for hillary, she has gotten more votes than her opponent in every election she has ever run in. including against obama in the 2008 primaries

right, Dems. Dem voters, Dem party, whatever.

The bottom line is that the worst possible candidate was chosen, he's in severe mental decline and no longer capable of handling the job he's running for. Its obvious to most of us paying attention, and will become obvious to the rest as time goes on.

Personally, I see Trump winning a second term as absolutely the worst case. Biden is going to beat Trump handily. Even if he just sits in the oval office doing nothing for the next 4 years letting advisors take care of everything (like Reagan's second term), its a massive improvement.

To that end, Bernie was the worst possible candidate. A Bernie nomination was 4 more years of Trump. The pandemic might have made that a question but at the time of the primaries, a vote for Bernie was a vote for Trump.

[dice]

I don't think Nikki Haley deep down is a Trump supporter. She didn't support him when he was running in 2016 and demanded he release his tax returns. There were discussions about Trump replacing Pence with her for the VP spot in 2020 but I don't think she would consider that and get a potentially bad rep which is the right move. However politics is and should be all about adjustments. Sometimes you have to agree and give into things you don't necessarily support.

If you remember a lot of Republicans were going against trump when he first started running. Trump even had to fight against his own party to become president, that’s why it was even more impressive that he won and shows that people love him.

That is not what it shows.

it does show that there was an appetite for an outsider candidate, even if he is filthy rich, holds no ideology dear other than self-interest, and is a blatant con man

[dice]

Even if Biden is in mental decline, he's still 10x better than Trump. Listen to Trump try to put together a sentence- he has trouble doing it. he is constantly mispronouncing words and getting facts wrong.

I honestly believe if Hillary were president, we'd have seen far fewer American deaths from COVID. Right now, we are 5% of the population, and have 24% of the world's COVID deaths. That's outrageous, for a country that is supposed to have the best medical system in the world.

Hillary could not beat Obama. Like Trump, Hillary should be in prison. So she, imo, was never a viable option. Trump is an idiot but Biden is not the answer either. I don't have the answer but apparently neither do the Hypocrats or the Bloodicans.

What did Hillary do that she should be put in prison? Her emails? Colin Powell admitted to doing the same thing. Trump's daughter was recently caught doing the same thing.

government officials do not get prosecuted for what hillary did, foolish as it was. you can bet your ass that trump looked under every stone for a way to go after her. instead it was the kinds of people on his team leading the "lock her up" chants that ended up getting locked up

[dice]

The bottom line is that the worst possible candidate was chosen, he's in severe mental decline and no longer capable of handling the job he's running for. Its obvious to most of us paying attention, and will become obvious to the rest as time goes on.

Which candidate are you talking about here?

biden in the early stages of alzheimer's (if indeed that is the case) is more capable than both trump is and dubya was. that would be the case if he was sleepwalking