Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[beanbag]

You realize words have context behind them, right?

The fact a synonym of a word you wanted the original word to mean is used doesn't actually mean the same meaning can be discerned from it. Specifically, the word restriction can take on a number of varying degrees of meaning.

You realize you're making the point for me, right?

The connotation of the word "ban" can just as well fluctuate with the same extent as that of the word "restriction" and considering the root of both words express sentiments that are very similar if not semantically exact in meaning, it's just as common for one to say "travel ban" as "travel restrictions" in the context of these discussions and a moot point to the facts being discussed.

Yes it absolutely can, which is why I am confused at you acting as though Restriction and Ban being synonyms meant something in the context of your reply. Fairview is basically saying this "ban" is still allowing a lot of people to pass back and forth.

Meanwhile, you went through and bolded all the words that said "restriction" or "denied entry" and acted as though that was some type of gotcha moment, ignoring the context in which those words were used.

[beanbag]

So this statement has a few things that are incorrect.

#1. Fauci today stated that there was never an intent to reduce the number of administered tests for covid. Actually if trump were looking to skew numbers he would allow for the most tests to happen because it would reduce the mortality rate drastically. More positive people but much less death.

2. Trudeau allowed for the same independent governance of the provinces. The United States operates on a state by state basis. The government is there for support. Each state makes it own decisions and we saw how well those decisions worked out in places like New York.

3. I agree mask wearing is important don’t agree with him on that although I think it’s just him “trying to be the man” which is stupid.

You realize that death and disease has a direct correlation to poverty correct? The longer people are without money, work the higher the death and destruction.

Hi, thanks for the response.

1) I understand what Fauci said, I am talking about Trump's multiple statements on wanting to slow the testing down and making it clear he was not joking in this regard, despite what his handlers have said.

2) I don't like the job Justin Trudeau has done here whatsoever. I'm just not sure why you brought it up because I don't recall mentioning him. I am asking about the poor decision to leave things in the hands of the States (and in our case, provinces). Also, why single out New York? Although Govenor Cuomo is a horrendous individual, there are States much worse off at this moment. Florida for example.

3) Don't you think a leader "trying to be the man" at the expense of public health is an absolute abomination?

I completely agree with you in terms of death and disease having a direct correlation to poverty. That is why I am I Socialist.

Also, where do you typically go for your news coverage? Sorry, if I missed that in your reply.

Cheers.

The links I posted above were from worldometer, Wikipedia, CNBC and I was trying to find an article today cnn made about numbers being much higher but it’s been taken down.

I mention Trudeau to show an appropriate comparison. The world is saying what a mess the United States is yet they took action much quicker then Canada yet Trudeau has been applauded for his handling. I think that’s a direct influence of media driving public sentiment.

I agree it’s ridiculous to posture and try and be the man especially when by just putting on a mask you can set a good example and hope people follow suit.

I never heard trump say he wanted to slow testing down. (Doesn’t mean he didn’t say it or I don’t believe you, but I know what fauci said in regards to the intentions of the president and it’s well known there was no love lost between the two so why lie and try and cover for the president)

Around the :20 mark.

Watch on YouTube

[Fairview4Life]

Financial times updated excess death numbers from around the world:

https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

[Fairview4Life]

Hi, thanks for the response.

1) I understand what Fauci said, I am talking about Trump's multiple statements on wanting to slow the testing down and making it clear he was not joking in this regard, despite what his handlers have said.

2) I don't like the job Justin Trudeau has done here whatsoever. I'm just not sure why you brought it up because I don't recall mentioning him. I am asking about the poor decision to leave things in the hands of the States (and in our case, provinces). Also, why single out New York? Although Govenor Cuomo is a horrendous individual, there are States much worse off at this moment. Florida for example.

3) Don't you think a leader "trying to be the man" at the expense of public health is an absolute abomination?

I completely agree with you in terms of death and disease having a direct correlation to poverty. That is why I am I Socialist.

Also, where do you typically go for your news coverage? Sorry, if I missed that in your reply.

Cheers.

The links I posted above were from worldometer, Wikipedia, CNBC and I was trying to find an article today cnn made about numbers being much higher but it’s been taken down.

I mention Trudeau to show an appropriate comparison. The world is saying what a mess the United States is yet they took action much quicker then Canada yet Trudeau has been applauded for his handling. I think that’s a direct influence of media driving public sentiment.

I agree it’s ridiculous to posture and try and be the man especially when by just putting on a mask you can set a good example and hope people follow suit.

I never heard trump say he wanted to slow testing down. (Doesn’t mean he didn’t say it or I don’t believe you, but I know what fauci said in regards to the intentions of the president and it’s well known there was no love lost between the two so why lie and try and cover for the president)

Around the :20 mark.

Watch on YouTube

He reiterated it in two follow up interviews as well. Just an aggressively stupid man.

[Pointgod]

When you have 12 percent testing positive, controlling outbreaks is almost impossible. Doesn't matter age it will hit the elderly because so many are testing positive. Either the NBA moves to Canada or a state that has this under control. It's not happening in a bubble or in Florida . It's going to happen in a society that can keep levels low and follow proper distancing efforts. It's actually quite embarrassing what is occurring in Arizona , Texas and Florida .

Actually it’s not surprising at all. These are the same states with Trump humping Governors that bought the idiotic “open the economy” talking point. There’s been a major failure of leadership at the top of the US government, Trump doesn’t even bother talking about it anymore. Imagine if George Bush just stopped acknowledging that 911 happened a couple months after the tragedy and instead just campaigned? This result was entirely predictable when you don’t listen to scientists, medical experts and the media.

Let's look at the facts instead of letting our feelings drive the truth.

1. The world health organization and many scholars, epidemiologists and experts refer to Covid as mild and not much of a threat
2. Numbers begin increasing in China
3. Trump is being impeached and the focus is on burning him at the stake, not focusing on this pathogen wreaking havoc across the world
4. Trump found not guilty, closes border to China and is called a racist for doing so
5. The data tells us that the morbidity from Covid for people under 60 is very low, infact, many people present as asymptomatic (not even knowing they are sick)
5. The panickers and media create a storm of propaganda where stores start selling out of goods and the goverments across the world look down their countries to stop the spread of the disease so that we can "flatten the curve" so that hospitals aren't overwelhmed with sick people.....even though like 95% of people are asymptomatic
6. People sit at home, the US mobilizes testing. The numbers grow exponentially. Even with this being said, studies have shown they believe the amount of people that have actually had COVID is a factor of to 50 to 70 times higher then what current testing shows. These people just don't get tested because there aren't enough tests or they don't realize they are even sick
7. Now, the US and Canada change their tune that the only salivation comes at the form of a vaccine....so hold on, this virus may infect you without you even knowing you are sick, you won't exhibit any symptoms, but you must get the vaccine....many more people will die from being poor and the associated health issues as a result of being poor like poorer quality food, no home, mental health etc....
8. People realize that this is all ludicrous and start protesting to open things up. CNN and other leftists mock them for being out with no masks and that they aren't good citizens and will spread the virus, but no mention of this for the mast protests occuring now....infact someone referenced an article about a study done saying that the protests have reduced the transmission.....GIMME A BREAK. What a hyprocisy.

This world is going to hell in a handbasket, with everyone thinking their feelings are the truth and not looking at facts. Wake up people this is all absolutely ridiculous

Next time save posters time and just add a warning that everything you’re about to post is pure bull. Funny you claim to talk about facts but your post is very light on any factual content.

[dohboy_24]

Yes it absolutely can, which is why I am confused at you acting as though Restriction and Ban being synonyms meant something in the context of your reply. Fairview is basically saying this "ban" is still allowing a lot of people to pass back and forth.

Meanwhile, you went through and bolded all the words that said "restriction" or "denied entry" and acted as though that was some type of gotcha moment, ignoring the context in which those words were used.

Whether you want to use the word ban, deny, or restrict, the timeline of events and facts surrounding them do not change.

The response began as follows...

So yeah that's not actually true. The United States didn't suspend travel from China on January 31st. They also never instituted a "travel ban" from China.

Following this use of the words "travel ban", the words were never used again.

Instead, words with the root "restrict" and "deny" that are synonymous in meaning and intent are used when describing the timeline of events to "prove him wrong". Unless I'm missing something, how does substituting the word "restriction" for the word "ban" constitute a rebuttal of the facts surrounding the matter?

[beanbag]

Yes it absolutely can, which is why I am confused at you acting as though Restriction and Ban being synonyms meant something in the context of your reply. Fairview is basically saying this "ban" is still allowing a lot of people to pass back and forth.

Meanwhile, you went through and bolded all the words that said "restriction" or "denied entry" and acted as though that was some type of gotcha moment, ignoring the context in which those words were used.

Whether you want to use the word ban, deny, or restrict, the timeline of events and facts surrounding them do not change.

The response began as follows...

So yeah that's not actually true. The United States didn't suspend travel from China on January 31st. They also never instituted a "travel ban" from China.

Following this use of the words "travel ban", the words were never used again.

Instead, words with the root "restrict" and "deny" that are synonymous in meaning and intent are used when describing the timeline of events to "prove him wrong". Unless I'm missing something, how does substituting the word "restriction" for the word "ban" constitute a rebuttal of the facts surrounding the matter?

Because the facts surrounding the matter are after the "ban" was put in place there continued to be back and forth travel between the U.S. and China.

[Pointgod]

Sure.


False.


False.


False.


False.


False.


Misleading nonsense.


Absolutely.

Great leftist rebuttal. No facts just disagreement. And you would fight to the end to say that you are correct. This is part of what's wrong with this world these days.

The straight up partisanship during a public health crisis is what's wrong with the world today. **** left vs right...this is not the time to argue by party lines. Leave that BS out of this discussion

Let’s call it what it is. The only reason it’s partisan is because of the stupid Republicans, Conservatives, Trump Supporters (not to be confused with the people on the right with common sense that listen to science). These people managed to make wearing a mask a partisan thing! How stupid do you have to be to make wearing a mask some sort of culture war?

This map is a little dated but look at all the states with over 3000 cases. Other than California which is the roughly the size of Canada in population, the states with a high number of covid cases are all the places that decided to listen to Trump open up early and now there’s a spike and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have to put restrictions back. Just utter stupidity because they want to kiss some deranged maniac’s ass

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/jun/18/coronavirus-map-us-latest-cases-state-by-state

[Pointgod]

Yes it absolutely can, which is why I am confused at you acting as though Restriction and Ban being synonyms meant something in the context of your reply. Fairview is basically saying this "ban" is still allowing a lot of people to pass back and forth.

Meanwhile, you went through and bolded all the words that said "restriction" or "denied entry" and acted as though that was some type of gotcha moment, ignoring the context in which those words were used.

Whether you want to use the word ban, deny, or restrict, the timeline of events and facts surrounding them do not change.

The response began as follows...

So yeah that's not actually true. The United States didn't suspend travel from China on January 31st. They also never instituted a "travel ban" from China.

Following this use of the words "travel ban", the words were never used again.

Instead, words with the root "restrict" and "deny" that are synonymous in meaning and intent are used when describing the timeline of events to "prove him wrong". Unless I'm missing something, how does substituting the word "restriction" for the word "ban" constitute a rebuttal of the facts surrounding the matter?

You’re arguing a moot point because whether or not Trump restricted travel from China doesn’t really mean much because of all the other ways he ignored, mocked and minimized the coronavirus and allowed it to spread. Of course restrictions on travel from China were just posturing to claim he’s tough (he praised President Xi for how he handled the coronavirus) and appeal to his racist supporters.

The origins of the virus in New York, the hardest hit place, was from Europe.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/new-york-s-coronavirus-outbreak-came-from-europe-and-other-parts-of-the-united-states-study-shows-1.4889570

So Trump supporters want to point to some so called restrictions on China like it actually mattered when there’s a lot more substantial actions that could have been taken to save lives.

[bballsparkin]

With Trump we get "the corrupt and incompetent federal response". Is this guy any better?



Looks like slim pickings either way. Just a bunch of company men and none deserving votes. Or public trust.

[mtcan]

With Trump we get "the corrupt and incompetent federal response". Is this guy any better?



Looks like slim pickings either way. Just a bunch of company men and none deserving votes. Or public trust.

I'll take Biden over Trump any day. There is no comparison.

[Fairview4Life]

With Trump we get "the corrupt and incompetent federal response". Is this guy any better?

Yes, Biden is significantly better. A houseplant would be significantly better, just by the fact it wouldn't be actively making things worse by design.

Glad I could help.

[Bomboclot416]

Actually it’s not surprising at all. These are the same states with Trump humping Governors that bought the idiotic “open the economy” talking point. There’s been a major failure of leadership at the top of the US government, Trump doesn’t even bother talking about it anymore. Imagine if George Bush just stopped acknowledging that 911 happened a couple months after the tragedy and instead just campaigned? This result was entirely predictable when you don’t listen to scientists, medical experts and the media.

Let's look at the facts instead of letting our feelings drive the truth.

1. The world health organization and many scholars, epidemiologists and experts refer to Covid as mild and not much of a threat
2. Numbers begin increasing in China
3. Trump is being impeached and the focus is on burning him at the stake, not focusing on this pathogen wreaking havoc across the world
4. Trump found not guilty, closes border to China and is called a racist for doing so
5. The data tells us that the morbidity from Covid for people under 60 is very low, infact, many people present as asymptomatic (not even knowing they are sick)
5. The panickers and media create a storm of propaganda where stores start selling out of goods and the goverments across the world look down their countries to stop the spread of the disease so that we can "flatten the curve" so that hospitals aren't overwelhmed with sick people.....even though like 95% of people are asymptomatic
6. People sit at home, the US mobilizes testing. The numbers grow exponentially. Even with this being said, studies have shown they believe the amount of people that have actually had COVID is a factor of to 50 to 70 times higher then what current testing shows. These people just don't get tested because there aren't enough tests or they don't realize they are even sick
7. Now, the US and Canada change their tune that the only salivation comes at the form of a vaccine....so hold on, this virus may infect you without you even knowing you are sick, you won't exhibit any symptoms, but you must get the vaccine....many more people will die from being poor and the associated health issues as a result of being poor like poorer quality food, no home, mental health etc....
8. People realize that this is all ludicrous and start protesting to open things up. CNN and other leftists mock them for being out with no masks and that they aren't good citizens and will spread the virus, but no mention of this for the mast protests occuring now....infact someone referenced an article about a study done saying that the protests have reduced the transmission.....GIMME A BREAK. What a hyprocisy.

This world is going to hell in a handbasket, with everyone thinking their feelings are the truth and not looking at facts. Wake up people this is all absolutely ridiculous

Next time save posters time and just add a warning that everything you’re about to post is pure bull. Funny you claim to talk about facts but your post is very light on any factual content.

Again, another example of rude derogatory comments with no effort to show where my comments are incorrect. Do some research instead of being a jerk and maybe you'd learn something. Are did mommy tell you great job every time even when you said something stupid. The world doesn't want your nonsense, use facts.

[djsunyc]

With Trump we get "the corrupt and incompetent federal response". Is this guy any better?



Looks like slim pickings either way. Just a bunch of company men and none deserving votes. Or public trust.

wha? how can the handling of covid not make you see just how trump is the worst president ever?

[Bomboclot416]

Great leftist rebuttal. No facts just disagreement. And you would fight to the end to say that you are correct. This is part of what's wrong with this world these days.

The straight up partisanship during a public health crisis is what's wrong with the world today. **** left vs right...this is not the time to argue by party lines. Leave that BS out of this discussion

Let’s call it what it is. The only reason it’s partisan is because of the stupid Republicans, Conservatives, Trump Supporters (not to be confused with the people on the right with common sense that listen to science). These people managed to make wearing a mask a partisan thing! How stupid do you have to be to make wearing a mask some sort of culture war?

This map is a little dated but look at all the states with over 3000 cases. Other than California which is the roughly the size of Canada in population, the states with a high number of covid cases are all the places that decided to listen to Trump open up early and now there’s a spike and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have to put restrictions back. Just utter stupidity because they want to kiss some deranged maniac’s ass

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/jun/18/coronavirus-map-us-latest-cases-state-by-state

There certainly will be spikes....we have spikes every january with the flu....for the last 40 years.

I guess my question is...what's so scary about this spike? My opinion is this is being overblown. The only thing you ever see on the news is people on respirators, but for the VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE INFECTED you don't even know you are sick. I know people who have had it...little loss of taste but otherwise they would have had no idea.

Should we shut the world down for this? Really? How many interviews have you seen with people that were completely fine and said it wasn't a big deal? ZERO. It doesn't fit the narrative the media wants.

The US has a total of roughly 2.5mil people testing positive for Covid. Roughly 124k have died. Very tragic. Let's conservatively say that the number of people infected is 4 times higher that what the actual positive number is. Scientists agree that the factor of people infected is likely much higher but let's be conservative for the sake of argument.

That would mean 10 million infections, 124k deaths. Still no small number and certainly nothing to ignore.....BUT this is within a group that is typically impacted with other morbities and is senior in age. They are succeptible to Covid, the flu, pneumonia, slipping and falling on ice and breaking a hip.

We need to take a step back and really evaluate a SMART way of handling the situation because like I've mentioned earlier, poverty has some pretty significant long lasting effects and people need to work and get on with their lives they can't just hide out.

Also, just as a note, New York was the BIGGEST MESS and it's a democratic state so stop brining up party lines and listening to the president as the reason for every mess. Cuomo didn't listen to trump and he didn't do much better.

Salutations.

Now for your rebuttal, yes the virus exists, yes some people unfortunately die, yes it isn't just like the flu it's more serious, no I'm not an idiot, no I'm not a conspiracy theory person save the insults.

Like I've said above

[Bomboclot416]

With Trump we get "the corrupt and incompetent federal response". Is this guy any better?

Yes, Biden is significantly better. A houseplant would be significantly better, just by the fact it wouldn't be actively making things worse by design.

Glad I could help.

Come on, I can pull up twenty clips of him forgetting what he's talking about and not being able to string together a sentence. Anyone of the other nominees would have been better.

He got demolished at every debate.

[Fairview4Life]

With Trump we get "the corrupt and incompetent federal response". Is this guy any better?

Yes, Biden is significantly better. A houseplant would be significantly better, just by the fact it wouldn't be actively making things worse by design.

Glad I could help.

Come on, I can pull up twenty clips of him forgetting what he's talking about and not being able to string together a sentence. Anyone of the other nominees would have been better.

He got demolished at every debate.

That's very interesting, but the comparison is to Trump, not Elizabeth Warren.

[Fairview4Life]

The US has a total of roughly 2.5mil people testing positive for Covid. Roughly 124k have died. Very tragic. Let's conservatively say that the number of people infected is 4 times higher that what the actual positive number is. Scientists agree that the factor of people infected is likely much higher but let's be conservative for the sake of argument.

124k is absolutely an under count of Covid related deaths. The US was at around 122k excess deaths at the beginning of June, with lots of big spikes in pneumonia related deaths, for example. So if you're going to bump up infections, you also need to bump up deaths, since scientists agree that the factor of people dead is likely much higher than what is officially reported.

[Kevin Willis]

New York is one of the states with their numbers going down. I'm just saying that's not the state to criticize at the moment. Michigan is cautious and has done well also. New Jersey is trending down. So how this virus is being handled makes a very strong difference in overall numbers. If you consider New York was ground zero in the US and Cuomo is not the greatest leader, their deligence and caution has worked out well.

There is no way that there is only 124K deaths. Absoutely 0% chance of that. Also the younger demographic is dying in Florida. Even Louisiana has a few because of their morbidities so we can't say young = living and screw the older people.

Yes they have to get back to work soon. However if they had a more unified direction and / or they were more cautious they would've been able to do so in a safe manner. It's true that governors make decisions for their state but if the POTUS is telling them you need to open now... California was doing great and they succumbed to other's wishes and where are they now?

[ItsDanger]

The US has a total of roughly 2.5mil people testing positive for Covid. Roughly 124k have died. Very tragic. Let's conservatively say that the number of people infected is 4 times higher that what the actual positive number is. Scientists agree that the factor of people infected is likely much higher but let's be conservative for the sake of argument.

124k is absolutely an under count of Covid related deaths. The US was at around 122k excess deaths at the beginning of June, with lots of big spikes in pneumonia related deaths, for example. So if you're going to bump up infections, you also need to bump up deaths, since scientists agree that the factor of people dead is likely much higher than what is officially reported.

The scientists opinion on cause of death is irrelevant. Unless they performed their own detailed full autopsies on every death, which they of course did not. The death number is an estimate only even at this stage of the crisis. Hospitals recorded cause of death is simply best guess even in normal times. Its not random that death stats spike on Tuesdays.