Political Roundtable Part XXVIII

[Wizardspride]

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[bsilver]

i don't think it's acceptable, but i don't think that the experts were ignorant of the benefits of masks.

i think they did a cost benefit of the level of infected and decided that a run on masks when 99.99% of the population didn't have it wasn't worth the market panic that a public statement would cause.

i disagree with lying but i think the rationale is a bit more nuanced than "Fauci Bad." and if i were to play devil's advocate, i'd argue that the weasel-y justification is that Fauci & co. said that "at this time, adopting widespread mask use by the general public would not help contain the virus" - but again. nuance.

I don't think Fauci is bad. Just think he was wrong. The US totally screwed up which is obvious from looking at the graphs of US vs other developed countries. The blame belongs to Trump. The CDC/Fauci could have done better, but they would have been quickly silenced if they spoke honestly.

Don't know the motivation of the Republican congressman for asking the question. In a normal world, it's a legitimate issue to bring up, but these days almost every action in a hearing is done for partisan purposes.

[pancakes3]

For context, a lot of republicans I know like to make fun of Libs by being reductive of lib arguments, saying it just amounts to “orange man bad” without getting into *~nuance~* to which I say, well... Orange Man Bad tho

[dobrojim]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html

So much winning.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I don't think Fauci is bad. Just think he was wrong.

I'm not sure if I think he was right or wrong here. I'm also not sure it actually matters whether he was right or wrong given the circumstances he found himself in.

After seeing what happened with toilet paper, completely unprompted, I can see the wisdom in trying to avoid more panic buying and public confrontation in retail settings, as well as the potential to try to mitigate a bunch of people trying to flood the market with masks with speaking holds cut into them or something like that (people were doing it anyway - they'd have bought them were it an option). I can also see the value in trying to condition people to wear masks even if it's an uphill battle with so many politicians filling the opposite current and a president who hasn't had issues replacing public servants with more lackeys. In the end, I think moral relativism is so muddy as to be completely valueless on this issue at this point and definitely not worth worrying too much about. There are much bigger real issues out there.

[Wizardspride]

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[gtn130]

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This is cool. Destroying the rule of law so Trump's pals can spend less time in jail. Every MAGA chud just nods along at this because they're too stupid to realize the leopard will eventually eat their faces too.

[dckingsfan]

Good ol' Teflon Joe... must really annoy them to no end....

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[dckingsfan]

Fauci was assuming the federal government would follow CDC guidelines and take steps to increase the supply of masks and prevent the spread of the disease, so at that time the few masks that we had should be reserved for the people most at risk of spreading the disease to everyone else, the health care workers exposed to confirmed cases of COVID.

But then the Trump administration screwed the pooch, only banning Chinese citizens from returning to the United States but allowing US citizens to return with no quarantine, no testing, no nothing, and they didn't block travel from Europe where most of the infection came to the United States from. So once the virus was raging out of control Fauci and co. had to reevaluate their mask policy, even though the federal government was actively pirating them to export to the highest bidders overseas.

It's extraordinarily unfair to blame Trump's incompetence on Fauci. Fauci did his job, Trump failed at his.

Add to that - Trump then had Kushner take over allocating PPE. Complete cluster there as well... it is hard to underestimate how badly this was botched.

[Wizardspride]

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Traitors...

[Zonkerbl]

Appeals court gives Trump carte blanche to use the DOJ to help friends and persecute enemies. Devastating blow to Democracy and rule of law.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882787253/appeals-court-orders-lower-judge-to-throw-out-michael-flynn-case?utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr

[gtn130]

Appeals court gives Trump carte blanche to use the DOJ to help friends and persecute enemies. Devastating blow to Democracy and rule of law.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882787253/appeals-court-orders-lower-judge-to-throw-out-michael-flynn-case?utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr

Nate loves this. That's the thing about the MAGA [find a more acceptable word] - they actually admire Putin and Russia and want us to become a lawless oligarchical ethnostate because it would truly own the libs, and themselves, but that's fine because the libs will have been sufficiently owned.

[Fairview4Life]

Appeals court gives Trump carte blanche to use the DOJ to help friends and persecute enemies. Devastating blow to Democracy and rule of law.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882787253/appeals-court-orders-lower-judge-to-throw-out-michael-flynn-case?utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr

Sullivan can appeal to the full panel and would more than likely win. He could also just get pissed and hold Flynn in contempt for perjury and go from there if he's just done with this crap.

[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

Appeals court gives Trump carte blanche to use the DOJ to help friends and persecute enemies. Devastating blow to Democracy and rule of law.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882787253/appeals-court-orders-lower-judge-to-throw-out-michael-flynn-case?utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr

If this ruling stands, whether there is rule of law in this country depends on the discretion of the POTUS. In other words, there no longer is rule of law in this country.

[FAH1223]

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[dobrojim]

^ in other words, and if this holds, tRump is going to have his @ss handed to him
assuming he permits the election to even happen.

It seems clear at the moment that tRump is incapable of realizing what
worked in 16 against HRC (see the Adam Serwer piece DCK(?) linked)
is not working. And the madder/more frustrated he gets, the stupider
he becomes.

[montestewart]

^ in other words, and if this holds, tRump is going to have his @ss handed to him
assuming he permits the election to even happen.

It seems clear at the moment that tRump is incapable of realizing what
worked in 16 against HRC (see the Adam Serwer piece DCK(?) linked)
is not working. And the madder/more frustrated he gets, the stupider
he becomes.

People were free in 2016 to speculate on what Trump as president might be. A lot of people were in for a surprise. Even a lot of Republicans who would never vote for a Democrat seem pretty astonished at the relentless ineptitude, unintelligibility, vulgar callousness, flagrant disregard for ethical standards, and narcissism. And the authoritarianism. My stepfather is a lifelong Republican who probably voted for Trump but surely will not this time around, and I heard him recently call Trump a fascist. My father, a moderate-Democrat-who-occasionally-votes Republican (Reagan 1980, at least) and has never been outspoken politically is recently quite critical of everything, everything that Trump does. The others that voted for Trump seem pretty silent, and my aunt seems a little embrarrassed that her boyfriend supports Trump.

Trump's approach seems to challenge supporters to be 100% all in, without criticism, or stand on the outside with the other losers. Perhaps a few of those on the fence have chosen to break away from dangerous fantasy toward the grey area of sanity.

However, with all the voter fraud tricks that the GOP, Republican Senate, and White House routinely signal they are prepared to employ, there is no reason to be confident of defeating Trump. The Trump party wears its comically veiled intent on its Iron Sleeve, seemingly as a promise to supporters to counter polls and bad press.

They intend to try to steal a righteous victory. If they do, Trump will appropriately brag, "Like George Washington said, [APPLAUSE] I cannot tell a lie. [APPLAUSE] I'm the Comeback King. [APPLAUSE] This country [APPLAUSE] is my home. [APPLAUSE] I stole home [APPLAUSE] and won the Super Bowl [APPLAUSE] for America. [APPLAUSE] Did I mention I?" [APPLAUSE]

[dckingsfan]

^ in other words, and if this holds, tRump is going to have his @ss handed to him assuming he permits the election to even happen.

It seems clear at the moment that tRump is incapable of realizing what worked in 16 against HRC (see the Adam Serwer piece DCK(?) linked) is not working. And the madder/more frustrated he gets, the stupider he becomes.

And the stupider he becomes, the more he tweets and talks and the less question of how incredibly stupid this unfettered idiot actually is.

I have flipped to the zonk mode. Every sitting R senator has to go before I will consider voting for any R at the local or state level regardless of how much more qualified they are... The Rs no longer have any kind of governing principal - and Trump puts that on display daily with the complicit silence of the rest of the complicit R party.

[Ruzious]

^ in other words, and if this holds, tRump is going to have his @ss handed to him assuming he permits the election to even happen.

It seems clear at the moment that tRump is incapable of realizing what worked in 16 against HRC (see the Adam Serwer piece DCK(?) linked) is not working. And the madder/more frustrated he gets, the stupider he becomes.

And the stupider he becomes, the more he tweets and talks and the less question of how incredibly stupid this unfettered idiot actually is.

I have flipped to the zonk mode. Every sitting R senator has to go before I will consider voting for any R at the local or state level regardless of how much more qualified they are... The Rs no longer have any kind of governing principal - and Trump puts that on display daily with the complicit silence of the rest of the complicit R party.

Plus 1,000