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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16!

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#141 » by newyorker4ever » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:32 pm

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mpharris36 wrote:

there is a weaknesses videos for anthony edwards too...doesn't mean I still wouldn't take him in the top 2.


Everybody has weaknesses that isn't the point. Lamelo Ball has Julius Randle type of weaknesses where he hurts your team a lot. Did you study the weaknesses or are you just content with knowing players have them therefore it's all good?


I want LaMelo but have these concerns as well; you've helped sell them.

So, ISO scorers tend to not help teams, as the ball stops with them (If they are that kind of player) and they have to have unreal efficiency to overcome that. Ex would be Antoine Walker on Boston etc, who didn't.

Some people (not you) confuse "ball dominant" with bad, but a ball dominant player, who has decent efficiency and is a very good playmaker is usually helpful.

The worry with LaMelo is that he'd be "ball dominant", and not an "iso scorer" but if his efficiency is bad and his decision making poor, then the easy buckets he'd get his team at times would be offset by lost possession on bad shots, turnovers, or just badly run sets.

I still want LaMelo, of course would be fine with Edwards, but I'm still wary of LaMelo.


If only we had any way of actually knowing what any of these KIDS will become when they get to the NBA and are surrounded by professional basketball players and professional coaches and have to go up against other professional basketball players, but we don't. These kids will grow and learn better ways of playing the game and different ways of playing the game so to think what you see now from what these kids did in college or high school (Wiseman) or overseas will be what they will be in 2-3-4-5 years from now is absolutely ridiculous. We just need to hope we get the player that has a good basketball mind and will love to learn and soak everything in and is coachable cause they all have talent or they wouldn't be mentioned as getting drafted in the draft.

LaMelo and Deni won't be the LaMelo and Deni we saw playing euro ball and Wiseman won't be the player we saw in high school or his 3 games in college and Edwards won't be the player we saw at Georgia and so on. These kids are just kids and the NBA is a different game where some of these kids talents will fit better there and they'll thrive and some will have to work their a**es off to fit their games to the NBA game and for some the NBA game will just be too big for them and will end up being busts at the NBA level. Finding the right players is the tricky part and there's no way to 100% do it right which is why there's multiple players in every single draft that will end up busts all through the draft even in the lottery every single year.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#142 » by Triple C » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:14 pm

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#143 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:41 pm

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Basically saying the exact same thing all the draft experts have said. Good job not showing his hand at all.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#144 » by TheGreenArrow » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:07 am

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Can’t wait to play with him on the knicks
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#145 » by islanders11040 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:59 am

If the scenario happens where LaMelo and Edwards have been drafted and we are 3rd, has anyone thought of the possibility of drafting Wiseman and trading Mitchell Robinson for the highest pick you can get in this draft. If I could draft Hayes or Halliburton too in that scenario, I'd do it. But im not sure if its realistic.....
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#146 » by Richard4444 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:12 am

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Can’t wait to play with him on the knicks


Did they already released LaMello or Anthony rating? Lets draft the higher rating!
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#147 » by smw6230 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:29 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
I'm still on the LaMelo hype train, but really intrigued by the idea of Edwards/RJ at 2/3. Of course, they'd both have to get more consistent on outside shooting, but I think it would work.


I'm curious. You're Rose (or Wes) and you're running this draft for the Knicks. Would you still select A. Edward's if you've already reached the strategic decision (via info) that you're going to fill the SG position via trade acquisition.

I guess if he's BPA you take him but if it's close, might you go PG or PF/C?

One could argue using your controllable (pick) to aquire the highest value piece, then building around that the uncontrollable (trade targets/top FAs).

I'm not advocating Ball or Hayes, but I see FA/trade avenues for scoring guards. I'm not seeing a futures market for high end PGs, and the Knicks at some point need to settle on a "floor general" that can setup and initiate a high powered offense.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#148 » by Worst_to_First » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:34 am

3toheadmelo wrote:Draft BPA which is Wiseman. Worry about getting a PG later. Don’t settle for a trash PG because you’re desperate for one. It’s like the people who wanted trash bags Garland over RJ and we all know RJ is the superior prospect by far.


I liked Garland but not to the point of choosing him over RJ. If the Cavs we’re willing to trade up for RJ and give us some additional assets I would have seriously considered it.

I think the Cavs are going to need to break up Garland and Sexton though. Am not saying Garland is Curry but it could be a situation wherein Steph blossomed after the Warriors let go of Monta Ellis.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#149 » by Worst_to_First » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:35 am

islanders11040 wrote:If the scenario happens where LaMelo and Edwards have been drafted and we are 3rd, has anyone thought of the possibility of drafting Wiseman and trading Mitchell Robinson for the highest pick you can get in this draft. If I could draft Hayes or Halliburton too in that scenario, I'd do it. But im not sure if its realistic.....


I don’t think the rest of the league values Mitch as much as we do. I’d be surprised if we could land Hayes or Halliburton for him.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#150 » by WargamesX » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:33 am

Worst_to_First wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:If the scenario happens where LaMelo and Edwards have been drafted and we are 3rd, has anyone thought of the possibility of drafting Wiseman and trading Mitchell Robinson for the highest pick you can get in this draft. If I could draft Hayes or Halliburton too in that scenario, I'd do it. But im not sure if its realistic.....


I don’t think the rest of the league values Mitch as much as we do. I’d be surprised if we could land Hayes or Halliburton for him.


No I think they would, this is a weak draft. With that said unless the Knicks felt Wiseman was a flat out better talent I don’t see them doing this.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#151 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:19 am

smw6230 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
I'm still on the LaMelo hype train, but really intrigued by the idea of Edwards/RJ at 2/3. Of course, they'd both have to get more consistent on outside shooting, but I think it would work.


I'm curious. You're Rose (or Wes) and you're running this draft for the Knicks. Would you still select A. Edward's if you've already reached the strategic decision (via info) that you're going to fill the SG position via trade acquisition.

I guess if he's BPA you take him but if it's close, might you go PG or PF/C?

One could argue using your controllable (pick) to aquire the highest value piece, then building around that the uncontrollable (trade targets/top FAs).

I'm not advocating Ball or Hayes, but I see FA/trade avenues for scoring guards. I'm not seeing a futures market for high end PGs, and the Knicks at some point need to settle on a "floor general" that can setup and initiate a high powered offense.


There are variables here.

Obviously the Knicks need a PG, and I say this as a fan of Frank and DSJr.
Then again, want they really need is a elite slasher/creator. Meaning, a player who gets into the paint fairly easily, with success, either to score, score and facilitate, or both

So, Edwards would fit that "get in the paint, break down the defense" but the Knicks might want that more from the PG, with the "run the offense, set the table, score yourself"

I "think" the Knicks are going to make a play to get LaMelo, no matter what. Even if they have to burn a couple of future #1's (say 1 of the Knicks, 1 of the Dallas" to move up.

BUT, Walt Perrin is on the scene for them, and Brock Aller. Perrin we hope has that good eye for talent, and he might not see LaMelo as worth it, where player "X" is just as good, or better, in his eye - Edwards, Haliburton...who knows. Kira Lewis? I recall reading that Aller is big on assigning proper value so he might not be into them burning picks, as they have value without $ cost (until used)

Long way of saying "who knows" but I think they'll target someone good at getting in the paint.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#152 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:03 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Draft BPA which is Wiseman. Worry about getting a PG later. Don’t settle for a trash PG because you’re desperate for one. It’s like the people who wanted trash bags Garland over RJ and we all know RJ is the superior prospect by far.


I liked Garland but not to the point of choosing him over RJ. If the Cavs we’re willing to trade up for RJ and give us some additional assets I would have seriously considered it.

I think the Cavs are going to need to break up Garland and Sexton though. Am not saying Garland is Curry but it could be a situation wherein Steph blossomed after the Warriors let go of Monta Ellis.

What if Sexton is Curry in this situation tho? I think Sexton is super underrated. His playmaking sucks but he is one of the best young scoring guards in the leagues. Cavs should pick him over Garland. They both have mediocre playmaking but Sexton is the superior scorer by far
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#153 » by moocow007 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:02 pm

smw6230 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
I'm still on the LaMelo hype train, but really intrigued by the idea of Edwards/RJ at 2/3. Of course, they'd both have to get more consistent on outside shooting, but I think it would work.


I'm curious. You're Rose (or Wes) and you're running this draft for the Knicks. Would you still select A. Edward's if you've already reached the strategic decision (via info) that you're going to fill the SG position via trade acquisition.

I guess if he's BPA you take him but if it's close, might you go PG or PF/C?

One could argue using your controllable (pick) to aquire the highest value piece, then building around that the uncontrollable (trade targets/top FAs).

I'm not advocating Ball or Hayes, but I see FA/trade avenues for scoring guards. I'm not seeing a futures market for high end PGs, and the Knicks at some point need to settle on a "floor general" that can setup and initiate a high powered offense.


I would consider a front office executive an extremely poor one if he has already "reached the strategic decision (via info) that you're going to fill the SG position via trade acquisition". But regardless, just because you draft someone doesn't mean that he has to be on the team by the time the season starts which is like you said. It does not make sense to me for the Knicks in this scenario to draft anyone else but Edwards (guys projected to be versatile high end offensive talents that also has the tools to defend have a ton of value). I wouldn't put that limitation on myself if I was in charge of things. Nor do I see RJ Barrett being a SG. Can they fit? Absolutely. Most teams have 2 high end offensive players. The Knicks? They had 1 (kinda) by the time the season ended and it's the Knicks fans consensus public enemy #1 and current escapegoat Julius Randle. Whether by trade or by attrition Randle won't be around and the Knicks will need to have someone that actually can create his own shots and score (no matter how much ideological Knick fans think otherwise) on a high level. Even if you assume that Barrett can evolve to be one of those (I'm kinda dubious right now) you still really need another one. Yes you need a PG, but this team needs a whole lot of things (with talent upgrades being an even greater need IMO) and barring a miracle from Leon Rose is still far from having to worry about competing (where fit becomes more important).
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#154 » by robillionaire » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:35 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:If the scenario happens where LaMelo and Edwards have been drafted and we are 3rd, has anyone thought of the possibility of drafting Wiseman and trading Mitchell Robinson for the highest pick you can get in this draft. If I could draft Hayes or Halliburton too in that scenario, I'd do it. But im not sure if its realistic.....


I don’t think the rest of the league values Mitch as much as we do. I’d be surprised if we could land Hayes or Halliburton for him.


if there was a trade I think the more likely scenario is that the knicks keep Mitch and just trade the pick back if they can find someone who wants wiseman. either for another pick or some future pick. But I'm not sure that the rest of the league values wiseman that much either.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#155 » by smw6230 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:42 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
smw6230 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
I'm still on the LaMelo hype train, but really intrigued by the idea of Edwards/RJ at 2/3. Of course, they'd both have to get more consistent on outside shooting, but I think it would work.


I'm curious. You're Rose (or Wes) and you're running this draft for the Knicks. Would you still select A. Edward's if you've already reached the strategic decision (via info) that you're going to fill the SG position via trade acquisition.

I guess if he's BPA you take him but if it's close, might you go PG or PF/C?

One could argue using your controllable (pick) to aquire the highest value piece, then building around that the uncontrollable (trade targets/top FAs).

I'm not advocating Ball or Hayes, but I see FA/trade avenues for scoring guards. I'm not seeing a futures market for high end PGs, and the Knicks at some point need to settle on a "floor general" that can setup and initiate a high powered offense.


There are variables here.

Obviously the Knicks need a PG, and I say this as a fan of Frank and DSJr.
Then again, want they really need is a elite slasher/creator. Meaning, a player who gets into the paint fairly easily, with success, either to score, score and facilitate, or both

So, Edwards would fit that "get in the paint, break down the defense" but the Knicks might want that more from the PG, with the "run the offense, set the table, score yourself"

I "think" the Knicks are going to make a play to get LaMelo, no matter what. Even if they have to burn a couple of future #1's (say 1 of the Knicks, 1 of the Dallas" to move up.

BUT, Walt Perrin is on the scene for them, and Brock Aller. Perrin we hope has that good eye for talent, and he might not see LaMelo as worth it, where player "X" is just as good, or better, in his eye - Edwards, Haliburton...who knows. Kira Lewis? I recall reading that Aller is big on assigning proper value so he might not be into them burning picks, as they have value without $ cost (until used)

Long way of saying "who knows" but I think they'll target someone good at getting in the paint.


Thanks for giving that some time.

It's not an easy decision, or rather as you say, there are a bunch of variables in play.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#156 » by Worst_to_First » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:43 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:If the scenario happens where LaMelo and Edwards have been drafted and we are 3rd, has anyone thought of the possibility of drafting Wiseman and trading Mitchell Robinson for the highest pick you can get in this draft. If I could draft Hayes or Halliburton too in that scenario, I'd do it. But im not sure if its realistic.....


I don’t think the rest of the league values Mitch as much as we do. I’d be surprised if we could land Hayes or Halliburton for him.


if there was a trade I think the more likely scenario is that the knicks keep Mitch and just trade the pick back if they can find someone who wants wiseman. either for another pick or some future pick. But I'm not sure that the rest of the league values wiseman that much either.


Wiseman will definitely have more value than Mitch though and while we can get more in return for him
I’d rather hang on to Wiseman under a scenario where we can draft him.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#157 » by Worst_to_First » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:46 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Draft BPA which is Wiseman. Worry about getting a PG later. Don’t settle for a trash PG because you’re desperate for one. It’s like the people who wanted trash bags Garland over RJ and we all know RJ is the superior prospect by far.


I liked Garland but not to the point of choosing him over RJ. If the Cavs we’re willing to trade up for RJ and give us some additional assets I would have seriously considered it.

I think the Cavs are going to need to break up Garland and Sexton though. Am not saying Garland is Curry but it could be a situation wherein Steph blossomed after the Warriors let go of Monta Ellis.

What if Sexton is Curry in this situation tho? I think Sexton is super underrated. His playmaking sucks but he is one of the best young scoring guards in the leagues. Cavs should pick him over Garland. They both have mediocre playmaking but Sexton is the superior scorer by far
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I was surprised that Cavs went for Garland instead of Culver, who I think would have been a better pairing for Sexton.

That being said I wasn’t that high on Culver in that draft. Would have chosen DeAndre Hunter or even Cam Reddish over him when it came to the wings.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#158 » by robillionaire » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:53 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
I don’t think the rest of the league values Mitch as much as we do. I’d be surprised if we could land Hayes or Halliburton for him.


if there was a trade I think the more likely scenario is that the knicks keep Mitch and just trade the pick back if they can find someone who wants wiseman. either for another pick or some future pick. But I'm not sure that the rest of the league values wiseman that much either.


Wiseman will definitely have more value than Mitch though and while we can get more in return for him
I’d rather hang on to Wiseman under a scenario where we can draft him.


Hard to say because Wiseman will also make 10x more than Mitch, teams are hurting for cap space right now with the cap possibly going down and a team trying to win like the warriors for example might prefer to trade for the cheap 2 year deal to plug a gap at the 5 while Wiseman would be a more expensive long term commitment. I mean, I haven't heard any rumblings of teams who really want to trade up for him yet so I don't think that's going to be an option. More likely we would try to trade up or like you said just hang on to him.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#159 » by moocow007 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:19 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
I liked Garland but not to the point of choosing him over RJ. If the Cavs we’re willing to trade up for RJ and give us some additional assets I would have seriously considered it.

I think the Cavs are going to need to break up Garland and Sexton though. Am not saying Garland is Curry but it could be a situation wherein Steph blossomed after the Warriors let go of Monta Ellis.

What if Sexton is Curry in this situation tho? I think Sexton is super underrated. His playmaking sucks but he is one of the best young scoring guards in the leagues. Cavs should pick him over Garland. They both have mediocre playmaking but Sexton is the superior scorer by far
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I was surprised that Cavs went for Garland instead of Culver, who I think would have been a better pairing for Sexton.

That being said I wasn’t that high on Culver in that draft. Would have chosen DeAndre Hunter or even Cam Reddish over him when it came to the wings.


Cavs were drafting BPA (what the Knicks should be doing). They were (are still) low talented and not at any point in their evolution to start worrying about balance. Culver did not project well for many scouts into a high end NBA talent (his evaluation was hurt by how he looked in the tournament against NBA caliber defenses and defenders). And yeah Hunter was the better player (compared to Culver) and would probably have been the choice for them had he been around still. I think most folks thought for sure that Garland was going to go 4th. That would have left Hunter to the Cavs. Definitely what I was expecting on draft night. I think a lot of Cavs fans were also getting ready to welcome DHunt to the team.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15! 

Post#160 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:53 pm

These Wiseman plans are way too complicated and risky. Just keep Mitch and draft Ball/Edwards/Hayes
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