Are the Bucks fool's gold?

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#81 » by old skool » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:43 pm

BFRESH44 wrote: The Bucks were a middle of the pack 3 point shooting team

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-pct


Milwaukee ranks 16th in 3FGA%, but 4th in 3FG's made. The only teams to make more 3-point field goals than Milwaukee this season are Dallas, Houston and New Orleans.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#82 » by jezzerinho » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:44 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:my issue with them is that when giannis gets loaded up on, they are either relying on Giannis to hit shots over the top from 8-12 feet, or they are relying on a bunch of average shooters to win them games against teams with great shooters and offense


It's not that simple. For starters you seem to ignoring that while they have a very good offense, their domination of the league starts with their dominating defense led by not one, but two DPOY level defenders.

I don't doubt that at least one coach/defense will find some ways to slow the Bucks offense at least somewhat. But can you realistically do it enough to be able to match them on the scoreboard at the other end? Maybe, but I don't think anyone can justify having anyone but the Bucks be the clear favorites in the East.

Best player, best defense, best team.


This is the nub of it. Orlando for example has Gordon and Isaac (when fit) to man and help defend GA - two of the East's best defenders. It's never enough because they have too many ways to score and Orlando has too few.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#83 » by jimmy keys » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:46 pm

Fool's gold is a bit ridiculous. They're the favourites and should be the team that comes out of the East. I think I'd put $ on either LA team beating them in the Finals though. I can see them winning it all if everything clicks at the right time. They have a very good chance. This year is the year for them to do it.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#84 » by HMFFL » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:47 pm

Vampirate wrote:Who in the East is really going to stop the Bucks? All of the good teams in the East either don't have the high end talent or are too green at the moment.
Majority of fans no matter what level they're have a difficult time seeing that clearly. Not one team in the East can compete with Milwaukee unless the Bucks just crumble OE suffer a serious injury.

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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#85 » by GiannisAnte34 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
like you said "it's 2020 and teams/players have evolved"....soon enough you'll be introduced to the new and improved Bucks killer Norman Powell :lol: don't be surprised when he averages 20 ppg, remember you heard it here first.


Yea Norman Powell will fill the shoes of Kawhi Leonard. I'll file that one away next to "if the Celtics swapped Kemba and Lowry, they'd be the clear favorites in the East"


Norman Powell alone won't fill the shoes of Kawhi...it's more of a collective effort between FVV, Lowry, Siakam, Powell, Ibaka etc...all these guys have stepped up their games, if you add up the total improvement in points/rebounds/assists you'll end up with Kawhi's numbers.

18-19 season --> 19-20 season
Lowry: 14.2 ppg (.411 FG%) --> 19.7 ppg (.417 FG%)
FVV: 11.0 ppg (.410 FG%) --> 17.6 ppg (.409 FG%)
Siakam: 16.9 ppg (.549 FG%) --> 23.6 ppg (.459 FG%)
Powell: 8.6 ppg (.483 FG%) --> 16.4 ppg (.502 FG%)
OG: 7 ppg (.453 FG%) --> 10.7 ppg (.507 FG%)
Ibaka: 15 ppg (.529 FG%) --> 16 ppg (.518 FG%)

Total 2018-19 --> 72.7 ppg
Total 2019-20 --> 104 ppg
Total improvement --> 31.3 ppg

Kawhi 2018-19 regular season --> 26.6 ppg
Kawhi 2018-19 playoffs --> 30.5 ppg

But hey, keep twisting my words and making it seem like I think Norman Powell alone will fill Kawhi shoes. I mean he is a Bucks killer, maybe he'll turn into Kawhi once he see's those ugly green jerseys :lol:


In other words, the Raptors are just as good this year as last year and the Bucks are not better than last year. This is my interpretation of the evidence you've provided and the statements you've made, but I'll let you confirm or deny that.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#86 » by SFour » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:55 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
Yea Norman Powell will fill the shoes of Kawhi Leonard. I'll file that one away next to "if the Celtics swapped Kemba and Lowry, they'd be the clear favorites in the East"


Norman Powell alone won't fill the shoes of Kawhi...it's more of a collective effort between FVV, Lowry, Siakam, Powell, Ibaka etc...all these guys have stepped up their games, if you add up the total improvement in points/rebounds/assists you'll end up with Kawhi's numbers.

18-19 season --> 19-20 season
Lowry: 14.2 ppg (.411 FG%) --> 19.7 ppg (.417 FG%)
FVV: 11.0 ppg (.410 FG%) --> 17.6 ppg (.409 FG%)
Siakam: 16.9 ppg (.549 FG%) --> 23.6 ppg (.459 FG%)
Powell: 8.6 ppg (.483 FG%) --> 16.4 ppg (.502 FG%)
OG: 7 ppg (.453 FG%) --> 10.7 ppg (.507 FG%)
Ibaka: 15 ppg (.529 FG%) --> 16 ppg (.518 FG%)

Total 2018-19 --> 72.7 ppg
Total 2019-20 --> 104 ppg
Total improvement --> 31.3 ppg

Kawhi 2018-19 regular season --> 26.6 ppg
Kawhi 2018-19 playoffs --> 30.5 ppg

But hey, keep twisting my words and making it seem like I think Norman Powell alone will fill Kawhi shoes. I mean he is a Bucks killer, maybe he'll turn into Kawhi once he see's those ugly green jerseys :lol:


In other words, the Raptors are just as good this year as last year and the Bucks are not better than last year. This is my interpretation of the evidence you've provided and the statements you've made, but I'll let you confirm or deny that.


We'll just wait and see in the playoffs...I don't bother arguing with Bucks fan anymore....I vividly remember arguing with a couple Bucks fans after the 2nd round last season that the Magic/Sixers was a tougher road than the Pistons/Celtics.....I still laugh at how convinced they were that the injured Pistons & dysfunctional Celtics was a tougher road.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#87 » by GiannisAnte34 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:10 pm

SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
Norman Powell alone won't fill the shoes of Kawhi...it's more of a collective effort between FVV, Lowry, Siakam, Powell, Ibaka etc...all these guys have stepped up their games, if you add up the total improvement in points/rebounds/assists you'll end up with Kawhi's numbers.

18-19 season --> 19-20 season
Lowry: 14.2 ppg (.411 FG%) --> 19.7 ppg (.417 FG%)
FVV: 11.0 ppg (.410 FG%) --> 17.6 ppg (.409 FG%)
Siakam: 16.9 ppg (.549 FG%) --> 23.6 ppg (.459 FG%)
Powell: 8.6 ppg (.483 FG%) --> 16.4 ppg (.502 FG%)
OG: 7 ppg (.453 FG%) --> 10.7 ppg (.507 FG%)
Ibaka: 15 ppg (.529 FG%) --> 16 ppg (.518 FG%)

Total 2018-19 --> 72.7 ppg
Total 2019-20 --> 104 ppg
Total improvement --> 31.3 ppg

Kawhi 2018-19 regular season --> 26.6 ppg
Kawhi 2018-19 playoffs --> 30.5 ppg

But hey, keep twisting my words and making it seem like I think Norman Powell alone will fill Kawhi shoes. I mean he is a Bucks killer, maybe he'll turn into Kawhi once he see's those ugly green jerseys :lol:


In other words, the Raptors are just as good this year as last year and the Bucks are not better than last year. This is my interpretation of the evidence you've provided and the statements you've made, but I'll let you confirm or deny that.


We'll just wait and see in the playoffs...I don't bother arguing with Bucks fan anymore....I vividly remember arguing with a couple Bucks fans after the 2nd round last season that the Magic/Sixers was a tougher road than the Pistons/Celtics.....I still laugh at how convinced they were that the injured Pistons & dysfunctional Celtics was a tougher road.


It's not an argument, make your statement. I assert that the Bucks are a better team this year than last year. Are the Raptors a better team than they were last year, about equal to last year, or worse? You made the claim that the Bucks are about equal. Why not make a claim about the Raptors?
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#88 » by The_Hater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:18 pm

Je K wrote:Bledsoe is gonna shock the world this year. A stadium without fans is the perfect cure for Bledsoe's playoff woes.

On a more serious note, the Bucks have definitely added wrinkles to their offense for when their normal stuff isn't working. Bud has allowed Middleton to work much more out of the midrange this season which has led to him potentially earning an All-NBA slot. Part of the reason why he struggled adapting to Bud's system last season was Bud forcing him behind the 3-point line. Bud has also been more willing to let Brook go to work in the paint this year if threes aren't falling. These types of adjustments aren't huge, but they're what this team needs to adapt to different situations when they can't impose their will offensively.

I also think that too many people focus on the Bucks offense in talking about their playoff chances. Stopping them is one thing, but scoring on them is a separate issue that doesn't get brought up much.


Also a lot of people (most?) don’t realize how good Middleton has been this season. By far his best season to date, he is going to make all-NBA and he had a 50 point game on a night where Giannis didn’t play. He’s been one of the 10 best players in the league this season IMO. So much for the - Giannis is the entire offense - argument.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#89 » by SFour » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:30 pm

GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
In other words, the Raptors are just as good this year as last year and the Bucks are not better than last year. This is my interpretation of the evidence you've provided and the statements you've made, but I'll let you confirm or deny that.


We'll just wait and see in the playoffs...I don't bother arguing with Bucks fan anymore....I vividly remember arguing with a couple Bucks fans after the 2nd round last season that the Magic/Sixers was a tougher road than the Pistons/Celtics.....I still laugh at how convinced they were that the injured Pistons & dysfunctional Celtics was a tougher road.


It's not an argument, make your statement. I assert that the Bucks are a better team this year than last year. Are the Raptors a better team than they were last year, about equal to last year, or worse? You made the claim that the Bucks are about equal. Why not make a claim about the Raptors?


Once again you're twisting my words...I said the Bucks have the same play style as last season, I never said they're better or worst as a team. I don't know if the Raptors are better or worst than last year because they've been constantly missing key players and facing adversity all season long, something the Bucks haven't had to deal with.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#90 » by RoyceDa59 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:32 pm

I think this is the season they'll break through to the finals. But I do agree that there's something rigid about Bud's system and that it works amazingly well over the course of a season but when it comes time to play chess in a 7-game series, he's been slow to adjust. Bucks went up 2-0, almost 3-0 (double OT loss in game 3), and then went on to lose 4 straight. He was able to adjust.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#91 » by JayMKE » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:33 pm

SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
We'll just wait and see in the playoffs...I don't bother arguing with Bucks fan anymore....I vividly remember arguing with a couple Bucks fans after the 2nd round last season that the Magic/Sixers was a tougher road than the Pistons/Celtics.....I still laugh at how convinced they were that the injured Pistons & dysfunctional Celtics was a tougher road.


It's not an argument, make your statement. I assert that the Bucks are a better team this year than last year. Are the Raptors a better team than they were last year, about equal to last year, or worse? You made the claim that the Bucks are about equal. Why not make a claim about the Raptors?


Once again you're twisting my words...I said the Bucks have the same play style as last season, I never said they're better or worst as a team. I don't know if the Raptors are better or worst than last year because they've been constantly missing key players and facing adversity all season long, something the Bucks haven't had to deal with.

Bucks play style isn't the same, Middleton and Lopez have been allowed a lot more freedom on offense to play to their strengths instead of just purely chucking 3s. Midd is one of the best iso scorers from midrange in the league and Lopez is a monster when he can post up and not get double teamed. Giannis also taking far more jumpers this year too.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#92 » by JRoy » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:38 pm

Jabroni Lames wrote:Interesting analysis by BB Breakdown, seems to indicate there are some potentially fatal flaws in Bud's system that could be exploited in the playoffs by savvy opposition coaches. He doesn't pick the Bucks to come out of the East... he picks the Raptors.

That's always been the knock on Coach Bud: he will live or die by his rigid system and he doesn't make many adjustments in the playoffs.



Their record speaks for itself.

I saw them beat the Blazers like it was a fathers vs sons game.

Tough, veteran, with mvp talent in Freak.

Yes they are the real deal.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#93 » by Je K » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:47 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Je K wrote:Bledsoe is gonna shock the world this year. A stadium without fans is the perfect cure for Bledsoe's playoff woes.

On a more serious note, the Bucks have definitely added wrinkles to their offense for when their normal stuff isn't working. Bud has allowed Middleton to work much more out of the midrange this season which has led to him potentially earning an All-NBA slot. Part of the reason why he struggled adapting to Bud's system last season was Bud forcing him behind the 3-point line. Bud has also been more willing to let Brook go to work in the paint this year if threes aren't falling. These types of adjustments aren't huge, but they're what this team needs to adapt to different situations when they can't impose their will offensively.

I also think that too many people focus on the Bucks offense in talking about their playoff chances. Stopping them is one thing, but scoring on them is a separate issue that doesn't get brought up much.


Also a lot of people (most?) don’t realize how good Middleton has been this season. By far his best season to date, he is going to make all-NBA and he had a 50 point game on a night where Giannis didn’t play. He’s been one of the 10 best players in the league this season IMO. So much for the - Giannis is the entire offense - argument.

Oh absolutely. I think it's mostly people assuming that Middleton is just playing almost as a 3rd option to Giannis' jacked-up #1, but he's been a very good #2 when Giannis is on the court and a legitimate #1 option when Giannis sits.

I'm a little concerned for him for the rest of the season though. He typically starts out really slow at the beginning of the season and can tend to be out of shape. A big reason why he didn't have that slow start this year is probably because he played on the national team and was able to keep up with conditioning all summer. Hopefully, those first 8 (honestly 12) games will be enough to get him going.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#94 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:09 pm

jimmy keys wrote:Fool's gold is a bit ridiculous. They're the favourites and should be the team that comes out of the East. I think I'd put $ on either LA team beating them in the Finals though. I can see them winning it all if everything clicks at the right time. They have a very good chance. This year is the year for them to do it.


There's a gap between "should do it" and "will do it" that's always tested in the playoffs. Plus a "system team" that comes up short can learn from their mistakes just as much as a team can step-up and figure out how to beat that "system".

Other than the LeBron and Kawhi factors out West there are more questions than answers around the league including LeBron and Kawhi's teammates.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#95 » by GiannisAnte34 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:16 pm

SFour wrote:
GiannisAnte34 wrote:
SFour wrote:
We'll just wait and see in the playoffs...I don't bother arguing with Bucks fan anymore....I vividly remember arguing with a couple Bucks fans after the 2nd round last season that the Magic/Sixers was a tougher road than the Pistons/Celtics.....I still laugh at how convinced they were that the injured Pistons & dysfunctional Celtics was a tougher road.


It's not an argument, make your statement. I assert that the Bucks are a better team this year than last year. Are the Raptors a better team than they were last year, about equal to last year, or worse? You made the claim that the Bucks are about equal. Why not make a claim about the Raptors?


Once again you're twisting my words...I said the Bucks have the same play style as last season, I never said they're better or worst as a team. I don't know if the Raptors are better or worst than last year because they've been constantly missing key players and facing adversity all season long, something the Bucks haven't had to deal with.


So quit dancing around your statements, are the Bucks equal/better/worse? It's that simple
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#96 » by SF_Warriors » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:54 pm

They have a mvp level player and not many holes either in the starting lineup or off the bench, and a quality HC. They have at least one good three ball shooter at each position: ghill, mattews, middleton, illy, brook.

The question for me would be, is middleton fools gold? Hes always been a good player but he has never played at such a high level prior to this season and we do not know if it will translate to the playoffs especially after such a long layoff. If he plays like his regular season self, bucks should definitely be the favorites out of all the eastern teams.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#97 » by And1+2 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:06 pm

Nah, they're 24k.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#98 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:19 pm

The Bucks aren't fools gold, but they are not a lock to win the East either. They're the favorites, but favorites don't always win, and this is an unusual season.

There is no team that is a lock to win the West, either. The Lakers and Clippers are a tossup IMHO, then there's Denver, and the Rockets are a dark horse.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#99 » by Packbuckman » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:22 pm

SFour wrote:I think Bledsoe and Middleton are going to choke again...whether that’s in the ECF or Finals we’ll have to wait and see. At that point Giannis is going to start questioning if he wants to re-sign


I don’t buy that at all Middleton has been pretty clutch his whole career and is having his best year yet as he is in his prime now. Bledsoe just needs to stay under control and he will be fine because now we have Hill and Donte plus Matthews as our guard rotation. All are healthy and ready to go and yes I believe we can beat anybody including the two LA teams.
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Re: Are the Bucks fool's gold? 

Post#100 » by lobosloboslobos » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:11 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Je K wrote:Bledsoe is gonna shock the world this year. A stadium without fans is the perfect cure for Bledsoe's playoff woes.

On a more serious note, the Bucks have definitely added wrinkles to their offense for when their normal stuff isn't working. Bud has allowed Middleton to work much more out of the midrange this season which has led to him potentially earning an All-NBA slot. Part of the reason why he struggled adapting to Bud's system last season was Bud forcing him behind the 3-point line. Bud has also been more willing to let Brook go to work in the paint this year if threes aren't falling. These types of adjustments aren't huge, but they're what this team needs to adapt to different situations when they can't impose their will offensively.

I also think that too many people focus on the Bucks offense in talking about their playoff chances. Stopping them is one thing, but scoring on them is a separate issue that doesn't get brought up much.


Also a lot of people (most?) don’t realize how good Middleton has been this season. By far his best season to date, he is going to make all-NBA and he had a 50 point game on a night where Giannis didn’t play. He’s been one of the 10 best players in the league this season IMO. So much for the - Giannis is the entire offense - argument.


If/when the Raps and Bucks meet I think whoever steps up more between Middleton and Norm Powell could be the deciding factor.

This season:

Middleton: 30 mins, 50/42/90 shooting (!) on 15.5 attempts for 21 pts/game
Powell: 29 mins, 50/40/84 shooting (!) on 11 attempts for 16 pts/game

mind you in Jan/Feb/March Norm put up 51/41/85 on 14 FGA for 20 ppg so almost identical to Middleton's great season

those two guys will be keys to any series between these teams. in the 6 games last year Middleton only had 1 with over 14 points. (11/12/9/30/6/14) If that happens again Raps will likely take it again. if middleton goes off it will likely be the bucks.

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