Memphis and Minnesota Trade Again

rugbyrugger23 · Post #1 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:59 pm

Wolves Trade:
JJ (expiring)
Grizzlies choose 2: Spellman or Vanderbilt or Evans
#4

FOR

Winslow
Brooks
Jazz 2021 (owed via Grizzlies)
Grizzlies Trade:

—

Wolves Why: they get game ready wings ready to go. They don’t trade deflated Culver and still have a FRP.

Grizzlies Why: their scouting department gets a shot at another high FRP.

TPV · Post #2 » by **TPV** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:18 pm

Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

rugbyrugger23 · Post #3 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:23 pm

TPV wrote:Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

It will be interesting to see others chime in. Brooks will not be negative value — but we will see how positive value he ranks.

E S V L · Post #4 » by **E S V L** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:23 pm

In my view, Memphis should seriously consider this.

TPV · Post #5 » by **TPV** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:26 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
TPV wrote:Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

It will be interesting to see others chime in. Brooks will not be negative value — but we will see how positive value he ranks.

Fair, I'm sure people see Brooks and the potential for him the improve. If he's not shooting well, he's borderline replacement level IMO. He's scoring 15ppg, but take 14 shots a game, and shoots 40% overall. He plays physically, but isn't a great defender (and fouls often, nearly 4 fouls a game in 29 minutes??). He's doesn't have any plus skills as a ballhandler, passer, rebounder, and I don't really see him improving much.

E S V L · Post #6 » by **E S V L** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:51 pm

TPV wrote: If he's not shooting well.

He took lots of tough shots when his team was struggling. He is a leader, he has a great personality and hi IQ, and he is a hell of a shooter and scorer.

psman2 · Post #7 » by **psman2** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:53 pm

TPV wrote:Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

I don't think he makes sense for Minny to bring him with those guys in place. I have Brooks and Beasley in the same talent tier. But that doesn't mean Brooks is a negative player at least to Memphis.

Would I trade Brooks for nothing, into a TPE or cap space? No so to us he is more than neutral value. Would I trade him for a trash expiring and pick 20, again no but that may have more to do with our lack of SGs. Would I trade him for a TPE/cap space and pick 20? Likely yes but then I would just have to turn around and shop the TPE and pick #20/other assets for another SG.

So for Memphis they would value Brooks as an overall positive but would move him as a small positive asset in the right deal.

jredsaz · Post #8 » by **jredsaz** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:17 pm

I like Winslow and Brooks a lot but I dont understand why Minnesota would use a top five pick for multiple good players. Looks like an opportunity to get a third option. However, it is a weak draft at the top and other than Holiday its tought to find a great fit.

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rugbyrugger23 · Post #9 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:25 pm

TPV wrote:Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

And BtW the Jazz FRP has protections — both ways.
1-7 and 15-30 in 2021. 1-6 in 2022...which would be first draft following a season in which Conley has expired and potential Gobert walks or traded prior.

psman2 · Post #10 » by **psman2** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:31 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
TPV wrote:Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

And BtW the Jazz FRP has protections — both ways.
1-7 and 15-30 in 2021. 1-6 in 2022...which would be first draft following a season in which Conley has expired and potential Gobert walks or traded prior.

Yep it is a possible juicy draft pick, I am really proud of our new front office getting those protections. Regarding the OP I think we reluctantly do it, maybe swap out Brooks for Anderson/GS 1st makes more sense with the glut of SG options for Minny.

rugbyrugger23 · Post #11 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:16 pm

psman2 wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:
TPV wrote:Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

And BtW the Jazz FRP has protections — both ways.
1-7 and 15-30 in 2021. 1-6 in 2022...which would be first draft following a season in which Conley has expired and potential Gobert walks or traded prior.

Yep it is a possible juicy draft pick, I am really proud of our new front office getting those protections. Regarding the OP I think we reluctantly do it, maybe swap out Brooks for Anderson/GS 1st makes more sense with the glut of SG options for Minny.

Glut of SGs? Isn’t Brooks a SF/SG and Winslow a SF/PF?

TPV · Post #12 » by **TPV** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:26 pm

psman2 wrote:
TPV wrote:Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

I don't think he makes sense for Minny to bring him with those guys in place. I have Brooks and Beasley in the same talent tier. But that doesn't mean Brooks is a negative player at least to Memphis.

Would I trade Brooks for nothing, into a TPE or cap space? No so to us he is more than neutral value. Would I trade him for a trash expiring and pick 20, again no but that may have more to do with our lack of SGs. Would I trade him for a TPE/cap space and pick 20? Likely yes but then I would just have to turn around and shop the TPE and pick #20/other assets for another SG.

So for Memphis they would value Brooks as an overall positive but would move him as a small positive asset in the right deal.

I think that makes sense for Memphis to view him that way in that he is useable and fits in as a finisher next to Morant, and they don't have a better scoring option than Brooks. Ultimately, Memphis will need to upgrade at starting shooting guard, even though Brooks is already being paid like a starter.

I think Melton is better, and if he were swapped with Brooks in the deal, I think the trade value would be fair.

E S V L wrote:
TPV wrote: If he's not shooting well.

He took lots of tough shots when his team was struggling. He is a leader, he has a great personality and hi IQ, and he is a hell of a shooter and scorer.

His strength is scoring, but he isn't exceptional at it and he's being paid like a starter / high-end bench player. I don't doubt his intangibles and he was in a situation where there were a lack of scorers, though I personally don't see him improving his production much in a better situation.

psman2 · Post #13 » by **psman2** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:27 pm

rugbyrugger23 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:And BtW the Jazz FRP has protections — both ways.
1-7 and 15-30 in 2021. 1-6 in 2022...which would be first draft following a season in which Conley has expired and potential Gobert walks or traded prior.

Yep it is a possible juicy draft pick, I am really proud of our new front office getting those protections. Regarding the OP I think we reluctantly do it, maybe swap out Brooks for Anderson/GS 1st makes more sense with the glut of SG options for Minny.

Glut of SGs? Isn’t Brooks a SF/SG and Winslow a SF/PF?

I guess it depends are where they end up playing Winslow the most. If the bulk of his minutes are coming at SF and Minny resigns Beasley to be their starting SG, Okogie and Culver needing rotation minutes at SG/SF and Layman getting some minutes at SF too. The need for Brooks is just likely not that high if you want to continue develop Culver and Okogie with a lot of minutes.

If they are not giving Culver and Okogie rotation minutes then you might as well trade them now before their value plummets even more.

rugbyrugger23 · Post #14 » by **rugbyrugger23** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:34 pm

psman2 wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:
psman2 wrote:
Yep it is a possible juicy draft pick, I am really proud of our new front office getting those protections. Regarding the OP I think we reluctantly do it, maybe swap out Brooks for Anderson/GS 1st makes more sense with the glut of SG options for Minny.

Glut of SGs? Isn’t Brooks a SF/SG and Winslow a SF/PF?

I guess it depends are where they end up playing Winslow the most. If the bulk of his minutes are coming at SF and Minny resigns Beasley to be their starting SG, Okogie and Culver needing rotation minutes at SG/SF and Layman getting some minutes at SF too. The need for Brooks is just likely not that high if you want to continue develop Culver and Okogie with a lot of minutes.

If they are not giving Culver and Okogie rotation minutes then you might as well trade them now before their value plummets even more.

Well a few things.

Culver plays SF/SG and PG — Wolves really like him ball in hand. I would think Winslow would start at PF and either Culver or Brooks would win out honor of starting at SF (most likely Brooks with Culver running 2nd team at point). Layman is a 3rd tier PF with spot SF minutes for Wolves.

psman2 · Post #15 » by **psman2** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:47 pm

TPV wrote:
psman2 wrote:
TPV wrote:Overpay by Minnesota. Winslow would fit well, but he's not worth #4 on his own. I don't think Brooks is that great and see him as negative value - would rather develop Beasley, Okogie and Culver over him. The Jazz pick might not even be lottery. As a whole the #4 is worth a fair amount more IMO.

I don't think he makes sense for Minny to bring him with those guys in place. I have Brooks and Beasley in the same talent tier. But that doesn't mean Brooks is a negative player at least to Memphis.

Would I trade Brooks for nothing, into a TPE or cap space? No so to us he is more than neutral value. Would I trade him for a trash expiring and pick 20, again no but that may have more to do with our lack of SGs. Would I trade him for a TPE/cap space and pick 20? Likely yes but then I would just have to turn around and shop the TPE and pick #20/other assets for another SG.

So for Memphis they would value Brooks as an overall positive but would move him as a small positive asset in the right deal.

I think that makes sense for Memphis to view him that way in that he is useable and fits in as a finisher next to Morant, and they don't have a better scoring option than Brooks. Ultimately, Memphis will need to upgrade at starting shooting guard, even though Brooks is already being paid like a starter.

I think Melton is better, and if he were swapped with Brooks in the deal, I think the trade value would be fair.

E S V L wrote:
TPV wrote: If he's not shooting well.

He took lots of tough shots when his team was struggling. He is a leader, he has a great personality and hi IQ, and he is a hell of a shooter and scorer.

His strength is scoring, but he isn't exceptional at it and he's being paid like a starter / high-end bench player. I don't doubt his intangibles and he was in a situation where there were a lack of scorers, though I personally don't see him improving his production much in a better situation.

Brooks average new salary is 11,666,667. I think that is fine for a 6th man if the cap still hangs around the 100+ mark. Ideally yes Brooks would be a 6th man for us and we would find a more complete player to fit next to Morant like a JRich type. Love to get JRich or maybe even Jrue in 2021 if he opts out.