Gordon to PHX - AGAIN

[Skybox]

Suddenly the AG story is like a reverse hostage situation? ORL's got to unload him at a loss, while they're still in business? Lots of threads on RealGM with people from other teams slamming AG's value, giving a million reasons for ORL to unload his burden...but they want him on their squad. He's the most overrated trade chip and the most underrated trade target in the league.

[jredsaz]

Suddenly the AG story is like a reverse hostage situation? ORL's got to unload him at a loss, while they're still in business? Lots of threads on RealGM with people from other teams slamming AG's value, giving a million reasons for ORL to unload his burden...but they want him on their squad. He's the most overrated trade chip and the most underrated trade target in the league.

As a Suns fan I'm pretty luke warm on AG. I feel like Gordon probably has more value than 5 spots in a draft and cap space. But it's not much.

My argument would be the same if the Suns wanted to trade Rubio. Think Rubio has a significantly larger impact of winning but it's the same story. Not a good shooter. Makes over $15 mil per. Hard to move.

Last, no one on the board gives any attention to the impact of covid on the teams financial situation. Orlando isnt going to want to spend near tax money on an 8 seed.

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[Ghost of Kleine]

this board might think its fair...but dont see any way magic do that..picks like 8-20 are about same in this draft..plus nobody has seen them play in march even makes it more pot luck...

Great I'll trade the Dallas pick for the Orlando pick straight up and I won't even ask for incentive for letting the Magic get the cheaper rookie scale deal. Seems like a no-brainer for the Magic, no?

Yes that is tongue in cheek, but its to make a very important point -- higher picks are always worth more than lower picks. Doesn't guarantee you will draft the superior player, but you always want the better pick.

well ya...10 to 15 to me not worth ag in this draft other draft maybe...next yr i bet it will

To be fair, I ( suns fan) would do Gordon for the 10 or Oubre and the 10 for Gordon/ Ennis 3rd and the 15. But I wouldn't presume to ask for Gordon and the 15, Just for the 10 in this draft. That's just unfair additional value coming back to us. And respectfully, You guys need to be able to secure a solid point guard in this draft if possible as badly as we need a backup. So again, it wouldn't be at all fair to ask for both assets really.

I myself have been in favor of an Oubre and the 10th pick for Gordon and the 15th pick, As mentioned previously. But maybe there's a 3 way, We could do to equal out the value more?

Phoenix/ Orlando/Minnesota-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9kz3239 .
- Phoenix doesn't get Gordon, But they get James Johnson / Spellman/ the 16th pick / 45th pick from Orlando.
- Orlando gets Oubre, And keeps their 15th pick. And gets the 33rd pick from Minnesota.
- Minnesota gets Gordon for James Johnson and the 16th and 33rd pick.

Or maybe

Phoenix/ Boston/ Orlando-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9jkn23k .
- Orlando gets Marcus Smart and Kelly Oubre.
- Boston gets Aaron Gordon.
- Phoenix gets Markelle Fultz / Vincent Poirer/ 15th pick ( Orlando) , 17th/30th Picks ( Boston). Phoenix now has the 10/ 15/ 17/ 30. They can package the 15/ 17/ 30 to move up into the top 5-8 maybe And draft Toppin or Okungwu. Then at 10, Draft Vassell to replace Oubre?

Phoenix/Orlando/ Chicago-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y93r6dkz .
- Orlando gets Oubre AND Santoransky.
- Chicago gets Gordon and the 10th pick.
- Phoenix gets Markannen and Wes Iwundu ( salary throw in) and the 15th pick ( Orlando).
15- Phoenix drafts Kira Lewis or Grant Riller.
***Phoenix uses the cap space to pursue Jerami Grant in free agency.

[jredsaz]

i dont agree with any of that at all..rather keep him then either of those options..lol
does not help them win...wow
would rather send 2nds and dump aminu and ennis befor any of that if its just money

Not sure how much owners of mid level teams are going to want to spend over the cap. Magic look like a perfect candidate to dump some salary if it doesnt cost them victories.

A healthy Aminu can produce 80% of AG at 50% of the cost. Could use the MLE and still save about $10 million by moving AGs salary.



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no he really can not

Idk man. Look at the numbers

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[armpit617]

Great I'll trade the Dallas pick for the Orlando pick straight up and I won't even ask for incentive for letting the Magic get the cheaper rookie scale deal. Seems like a no-brainer for the Magic, no?

Yes that is tongue in cheek, but its to make a very important point -- higher picks are always worth more than lower picks. Doesn't guarantee you will draft the superior player, but you always want the better pick.

well ya...10 to 15 to me not worth ag in this draft other draft maybe...next yr i bet it will

To be fair, I ( suns fan) would do Gordon for the 10 or Oubre and the 10 for Gordon/ Ennis 3rd and the 15. But I wouldn't presume to ask for Gordon and the 15, Just for the 10 in this draft. That's just unfair additional value coming back to us. And respectfully, You guys need to be able to secure a solid point guard in this draft if possible as badly as we need a backup. So again, it wouldn't be at all fair to ask for both assets really.

I myself have been in favor of an Oubre and the 10th pick for Gordon and the 15th pick, As mentioned previously. But maybe there's a 3 way, We could do to equal out the value more?

Phoenix/ Orlando/Minnesota-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9kz3239 .
- Phoenix doesn't get Gordon, But they get James Johnson / Spellman/ the 16th pick / 45th pick from Orlando.
- Orlando gets Oubre, And keeps their 15th pick. And gets the 33rd pick from Minnesota.
- Minnesota gets Gordon for James Johnson and the 16th and 33rd pick.

Or maybe

Phoenix/ Boston/ Orlando-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9jkn23k .
- Orlando gets Marcus Smart and Kelly Oubre.
- Boston gets Aaron Gordon.
- Phoenix gets Markelle Fultz / Vincent Poirer/ 15th pick ( Orlando) , 17th/30th Picks ( Boston). Phoenix now has the 10/ 15/ 17/ 30. They can package the 15/ 17/ 30 to move up into the top 5-8 maybe And draft Toppin or Okungwu. Then at 10, Draft Vassell to replace Oubre?

Phoenix/Orlando/ Chicago-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y93r6dkz .
- Orlando gets Oubre AND Santoransky.
- Chicago gets Gordon and the 10th pick.
- Phoenix gets Markannen and Wes Iwundu ( salary throw in) and the 15th pick ( Orlando).
15- Phoenix drafts Kira Lewis or Grant Riller.
***Phoenix uses the cap space to pursue Jerami Grant in free agency.

Holy cow that Suns/Celts/Magic trade is brutal for Boston. Smart to me, and probably to half the teams in the league, has the most trade value of everything else in that deal. So on top of trading Smart, and his great contract, for a guy who would struggle to get more than 20 minutes a game in Boston, they are also giving up other assets. Total head scratcher to me.

[Ghost of Kleine]

well ya...10 to 15 to me not worth ag in this draft other draft maybe...next yr i bet it will

To be fair, I ( suns fan) would do Gordon for the 10 or Oubre and the 10 for Gordon/ Ennis 3rd and the 15. But I wouldn't presume to ask for Gordon and the 15, Just for the 10 in this draft. That's just unfair additional value coming back to us. And respectfully, You guys need to be able to secure a solid point guard in this draft if possible as badly as we need a backup. So again, it wouldn't be at all fair to ask for both assets really.

I myself have been in favor of an Oubre and the 10th pick for Gordon and the 15th pick, As mentioned previously. But maybe there's a 3 way, We could do to equal out the value more?

Phoenix/ Orlando/Minnesota-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9kz3239 .
- Phoenix doesn't get Gordon, But they get James Johnson / Spellman/ the 16th pick / 45th pick from Orlando.
- Orlando gets Oubre, And keeps their 15th pick. And gets the 33rd pick from Minnesota.
- Minnesota gets Gordon for James Johnson and the 16th and 33rd pick.

Or maybe

Phoenix/ Boston/ Orlando-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9jkn23k .
- Orlando gets Marcus Smart and Kelly Oubre.
- Boston gets Aaron Gordon.
- Phoenix gets Markelle Fultz / Vincent Poirer/ 15th pick ( Orlando) , 17th/30th Picks ( Boston). Phoenix now has the 10/ 15/ 17/ 30. They can package the 15/ 17/ 30 to move up into the top 5-8 maybe And draft Toppin or Okungwu. Then at 10, Draft Vassell to replace Oubre?

Phoenix/Orlando/ Chicago-
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y93r6dkz .
- Orlando gets Oubre AND Santoransky.
- Chicago gets Gordon and the 10th pick.
- Phoenix gets Markannen and Wes Iwundu ( salary throw in) and the 15th pick ( Orlando).
15- Phoenix drafts Kira Lewis or Grant Riller.
***Phoenix uses the cap space to pursue Jerami Grant in free agency.

Holy cow that Suns/Celts/Magic trade is brutal for Boston. Smart to me, and probably to half the teams in the league, has the most trade value of everything else in that deal. So on top of trading Smart, and his great contract, for a guy who would struggle to get more than 20 minutes a game in Boston, they are also giving up other assets. Total head scratcher to me.

Your opinion is duly noted.
Feel free to adjust it accordingly as you see fit honestly If you like. But awhile back, there was mention by someone from Boston, That they would covet getting an athletic defensive big such as Gordon. And he is on a descending contract as well. So his contract should not be viewed in a negative light per his production honestly either. But I have to remember that you guys do still have Hayward with a 34 million player option. So my apologies on spacing that for whatever reason. But aside from that fact, You guys really don't have much tangible depth at the 4 or 5, And are in need of quality bigs for your frontcourt. However, I can see where your coming from with Smart, And do respect your perspective on that. So we can cut the Boston trade for you from the proposed list k.
By the way, My preference in a trade with you guys was something along these lines honestly, as I always try to give even value throughout my trade proposals.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9xjq7jg .
Phoenix/ Orlando/ Golden State/ Boston.

*** Boston gets Golden state's Top 5 2020 unprotected first ( from Phoenix in the trade for Oubre). Then uses it on Wiseman. In turn Phoenix gets Marcus Smart and the 17th and 30th picks. Fair value for a Top 5 pick and a potential ELITE defensive center in Wiseman! And they still keep their 26th pick too. And can target a quality backup guard or 2 guard.

Or maybe something along these lines:
Phoenix/ Orlando/ Boston/ Atlanta.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya4jj5zl .
*** Phoenix also gets Boston's 17th pick. And Atlanta's 52nd pick.

[orlando_joe]

Not sure how much owners of mid level teams are going to want to spend over the cap. Magic look like a perfect candidate to dump some salary if it doesnt cost them victories.

A healthy Aminu can produce 80% of AG at 50% of the cost. Could use the MLE and still save about $10 million by moving AGs salary.



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no he really can not

Idk man. Look at the numbers

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

if thats how you see it well then by all means switch these ag trades to aminu they all work for me..lol
i think your so wrong i would give this yrs 2nd rd pick for team to just take aminu..heck next yrs to..
aminu can only play the 4 fits magic even less when magic add in okeke this yr.. at least ag can cover 3s..what numbers are you looking at aminu never scored 10 points a yr ..ever...cant really pass..not that ag is great but at least he can handle the ball a bit..aminu cant create for himself or others... i dont get what you see

[Magic_Johnny12]

Not enough incentive for Orlando, now if this did not include our pick outgoing and a player like Bridges/Johnson you’ll be on to something.

[Skybox]

Suddenly the AG story is like a reverse hostage situation? ORL's got to unload him at a loss, while they're still in business? Lots of threads on RealGM with people from other teams slamming AG's value, giving a million reasons for ORL to unload his burden...but they want him on their squad. He's the most overrated trade chip and the most underrated trade target in the league.

As a Suns fan I'm pretty luke warm on AG. I feel like Gordon probably has more value than 5 spots in a draft and cap space. But it's not much.

My argument would be the same if the Suns wanted to trade Rubio. Think Rubio has a significantly larger impact of winning but it's the same story. Not a good shooter. Makes over $15 mil per. Hard to move.

Last, no one on the board gives any attention to the impact of covid on the teams financial situation. Orlando isnt going to want to spend near tax money on an 8 seed.

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You're 100 on Rubio. For a team without a point guard, he can change EVERYTHING overnight. But, he's not a good shooter, so the criticisms rain down...All Chris Paul did to become a "negative" is have birthdays. He's a 2-way superstar, MVP-caliber player but...people have a narrative. Allen Iverson was inefficient. I'd take him back today.

[Fo-Real]

Suddenly the AG story is like a reverse hostage situation? ORL's got to unload him at a loss, while they're still in business? Lots of threads on RealGM with people from other teams slamming AG's value, giving a million reasons for ORL to unload his burden...but they want him on their squad. He's the most overrated trade chip and the most underrated trade target in the league.

Ahhhhhh a flash of light occurs and you finally understand REALGM!!! Where "you should trade us your guy" BUT "he is pure **** so dont expect anything back". Where "that guy would really help our team" BUT " his value is negative so you should just give him to us for the team washing machine" like Coffee Black in Semi Pro!!!

[Skybox]

Suddenly the AG story is like a reverse hostage situation? ORL's got to unload him at a loss, while they're still in business? Lots of threads on RealGM with people from other teams slamming AG's value, giving a million reasons for ORL to unload his burden...but they want him on their squad. He's the most overrated trade chip and the most underrated trade target in the league.

Ahhhhhh a flash of light occurs and you finally understand REALGM!!! Where "you should trade us your guy" BUT "he is pure **** so dont expect anything back". Where "that guy would really help our team" BUT " his value is negative so you should just give him to us for the team washing machine" like Coffee Black in Semi Pro!!!

LOL...it's just a guilty pleasure. Like FB but without the politics. Self-inflicted anxiety

[rugbyrugger23]

Suddenly the AG story is like a reverse hostage situation? ORL's got to unload him at a loss, while they're still in business? Lots of threads on RealGM with people from other teams slamming AG's value, giving a million reasons for ORL to unload his burden...but they want him on their squad. He's the most overrated trade chip and the most underrated trade target in the league.

As a Suns fan I'm pretty luke warm on AG. I feel like Gordon probably has more value than 5 spots in a draft and cap space. But it's not much.

My argument would be the same if the Suns wanted to trade Rubio. Think Rubio has a significantly larger impact of winning but it's the same story. Not a good shooter. Makes over $15 mil per. Hard to move.

Last, no one on the board gives any attention to the impact of covid on the teams financial situation. Orlando isnt going to want to spend near tax money on an 8 seed.

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You're 100 on Rubio. For a team without a point guard, he can change EVERYTHING overnight. But, he's not a good shooter, so the criticisms rain down...All Chris Paul did to become a "negative" is have birthdays. He's a 2-way superstar, MVP-caliber player but...people have a narrative. Allen Iverson was inefficient. I'd take him back today.

People also get a RGM narrative and it never changes. Like Rubio can't shoot. Or 30 years old is a automatic NBA cliff.

It just becomes easier for RGMers to stay the course than actually adjust one's thinking.

[Skybox]

As a Suns fan I'm pretty luke warm on AG. I feel like Gordon probably has more value than 5 spots in a draft and cap space. But it's not much.

My argument would be the same if the Suns wanted to trade Rubio. Think Rubio has a significantly larger impact of winning but it's the same story. Not a good shooter. Makes over $15 mil per. Hard to move.

Last, no one on the board gives any attention to the impact of covid on the teams financial situation. Orlando isnt going to want to spend near tax money on an 8 seed.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

You're 100 on Rubio. For a team without a point guard, he can change EVERYTHING overnight. But, he's not a good shooter, so the criticisms rain down...All Chris Paul did to become a "negative" is have birthdays. He's a 2-way superstar, MVP-caliber player but...people have a narrative. Allen Iverson was inefficient. I'd take him back today.

People also get a RGM narrative and it never changes. Like Rubio can't shoot. Or 30 years old is a automatic NBA cliff.

It just becomes easier for RGMers to stay the course than actually adjust one's thinking.

Like politics, sadly

[jredsaz]

no he really can not

Idk man. Look at the numbers

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if thats how you see it well then by all means switch these ag trades to aminu they all work for me..lol
i think your so wrong i would give this yrs 2nd rd pick for team to just take aminu..heck next yrs to..
aminu can only play the 4 fits magic even less when magic add in okeke this yr.. at least ag can cover 3s..what numbers are you looking at aminu never scored 10 points a yr ..ever...cant really pass..not that ag is great but at least he can handle the ball a bit..aminu cant create for himself or others... i dont get what you see

Fair enough. I actually still like Aminu and would be interested as a Suns fan to take him into space. Feel like he does a lit of what AG does defensively and on the boards. He has shown the ability to shoot at an average percentage from three for a 4. But yeah, AG has a more well rounded offensive game and most importantly he is only 24.

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[jredsaz]

Not enough incentive for Orlando, now if this did not include our pick outgoing and a player like Bridges/Johnson you’ll be on to something.

And that's my problem, I wouldnt give up the shooting Cam provides. It was reported that the Suns did offer Can and their pick for AG but that the Magic wanted Oubre. Suns lack shooting just like the Magic. Giving up what could be elite shooting for a non shooter seems counterproductive in today's NBA.

Bridges is a flat no go. Wouldn't trade bridges for AG and 15.

AG is worth more than a pick swap most likely. A straight up Oubre for AG may come to fruition but as a Suns fan I'm not sure how much I like it.

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[hoosierdaddy34]

Great deal for the Suns. I’d plug Gordon in at the 4 and run with Rubio, Booker, Oubre, AG and Ayton. Would be a lot of fun to watch that team.

Orlando would have to REALLY like someone at 10 to make this deal to move up.

[orlando_joe]

Idk man. Look at the numbers

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if thats how you see it well then by all means switch these ag trades to aminu they all work for me..lol
i think your so wrong i would give this yrs 2nd rd pick for team to just take aminu..heck next yrs to..
aminu can only play the 4 fits magic even less when magic add in okeke this yr.. at least ag can cover 3s..what numbers are you looking at aminu never scored 10 points a yr ..ever...cant really pass..not that ag is great but at least he can handle the ball a bit..aminu cant create for himself or others... i dont get what you see

Fair enough. I actually still like Aminu and would be interested as a Suns fan to take him into space. Feel like he does a lit of what AG does defensively and on the boards. He has shown the ability to shoot at an average percentage from three for a 4. But yeah, AG has a more well rounded offensive game and most importantly he is only 24.

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agree...thing is magic have isaac,ag,okeke and aminu that can play the 4...to me aminu should be odd man out not ag...the others could play some 3 also

[Ducklett]

if thats how you see it well then by all means switch these ag trades to aminu they all work for me..lol
i think your so wrong i would give this yrs 2nd rd pick for team to just take aminu..heck next yrs to..
aminu can only play the 4 fits magic even less when magic add in okeke this yr.. at least ag can cover 3s..what numbers are you looking at aminu never scored 10 points a yr ..ever...cant really pass..not that ag is great but at least he can handle the ball a bit..aminu cant create for himself or others... i dont get what you see

Fair enough. I actually still like Aminu and would be interested as a Suns fan to take him into space. Feel like he does a lit of what AG does defensively and on the boards. He has shown the ability to shoot at an average percentage from three for a 4. But yeah, AG has a more well rounded offensive game and most importantly he is only 24.

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agree...thing is magic have isaac,ag,okeke and aminu that can play the 4...to me aminu should be odd man out not ag...the others could play some 3 also

I disagree. I think if you can use AG to get something of major importance to the team (you know, a wing that could take over for Evan or play the 3 next to Isaac as a great 3 point shooter), I think you get more of what you want with the better asset over the nothing we get for Aminu. I don't think moving up in this draft is the right answer (at least not 5 spots).

[shrink]

Suns recieve Aaron Gordon, 2020 1st (15)
Magic recieve 2020 1st (10)

Aaron Gordon is a good player, and I think his best role would be as a #3 starter on a good team, so I think his contract is appropriate. Unfortunately, I think his trade value can be deceptive. For some people, when they think “well, he’s good,” it doesn’t always mean “well, he has a lot of trade value.” So personally, I don’t think this is an unfair offer at all.

Perhaps the majority would agree. On Page 2, we have a poll where 50 of 84 voters put his value at pick #14 or worse. Most of those voted worse. Even if we say Gordon is worth the “15,” isn’t “15 + 15 for 10” a pretty good offer, in this draft?

I also agree there is value to the $17 mil in cap space, though that may be reflected in the poll by many voters.

My only question would be whether this is the direction either side wants to go, but I have no problem with the value for Orlando.

[Skybox]

Suns recieve Aaron Gordon, 2020 1st (15)
Magic recieve 2020 1st (10)

Aaron Gordon is a good player, and I think his best role would be as a #3 starter on a good team, so I think his contract is appropriate. Unfortunately, I think his trade value can be deceptive. For some people, when they think “well, he’s good,” it doesn’t always mean “well, he has a lot of trade value.” So personally, I don’t think this is an unfair offer at all.

Perhaps the majority would agree. On Page 2, we have a poll where 50 of 84 voters put his value at pick #14 or worse. Most of those voted worse. Even if we say Gordon is worth the “15,” isn’t “15 + 15 for 10” a pretty good offer, in this draft?

I also agree there is value to the $17 mil in cap space, though that may be reflected in the poll by many voters.

My only question would be whether this is the direction either side wants to go, but I have no problem with the value for Orlando.

So who would be your pick(s) at 10 that would be of "equivalent" value to AG but a better fit, then your likely target at 15 that make sense in combination?