Political Roundtable Part XXVIII

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-threatens-to-veto-defense-spending-bill-over-proposed-renaming-of-bases-honoring-confederates/ar-BB16cGha

He's really doubling down on his Southern hick base. Problem is (for him) - he's alienating the military and... pretty much everyone else capable of thought. Does he even realizes he's a New Yorker? I expect he'll set an all-time record for biggest loser in his home state by an incumbent. What he's trying to do is create Civil War II, and his fight over renaming of military bases is part of it. I think even most Republicans see he ain't winning this part of the fight. It's time for them to turn on him for their own self-preservation.

pancakes3 · Post #1387 » by **pancakes3** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:38 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Post #1388 » by **Zonkerbl** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:18 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
gtn130 wrote:quite the weekend for our **** president. allowing russians to have US troops killed and retweeting white power videos.

Nate loves this!

I’m waiting for Popper to chime in that he doesn’t agree with Trump’s “temperament” but the Democratic option is worse.

Yep.

There's no "the other side is worse".

Either you support this traitor or you don't.....

This is why it's useful to have people like Nate and Popper participating in the discussion. They're irritating as hell but they also provide a bit of a reality check as to what's actually going on in our country. Now more than ever it's easy to get stuck in the bubble and think "wow Trump has no chance! everybody hates him!" Even if that's true, if the GOP controls the Senate Democracy is still doomed.

The Fox News propaganda machine has fanned the flamed of hatred and fear in this country among those most susceptible to its message - white supremacists. That emotional force is stronger than you realize.

Watching Star Wars you might wonder why anyone would join the dark side, when all the Good Guys tm are on the light side. Well now you know. They think they're the good guys, because Fox News has brainwashed them into thinking so.

Post #1389 » by **Zonkerbl** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:25 pm

gtn130 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Incredible President we have here! MAGA!

Such lies. The President was briefed back in February. He was given an *additional* oral briefing yesterday.

POTUS isn't the only fricking person reading the briefings. Staff who were delegated to take care of this stuff knew about it and were afraid or too incompetent to bring it to his attention. This is the problem with electing someone who is a Russian plant - people are afraid to criticize Russian in front of him.

DCZards · Post #1390 » by **DCZards** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 3:16 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
gtn130 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Incredible President we have here! MAGA!

Such lies. The President was briefed back in February. He was given an oral briefing yesterday.

POTUS isn't the only fricking person reading the briefings. Staff who were delegated to take care of this stuff knew about it and were afraid or too incompetent to bring it to his attention. This is the problem with electing someone who is a Russian plant - people are afraid to criticize Russian in front of him.

It's also the problem when you denigrate and get rid of people with knowledge and experience in government and national security...and replace them with inexperienced dimwits whose only loyalty is to an idiot president.

Pointgod · Post #1391 » by **Pointgod** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 3:19 pm

Ruzious wrote:https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-threatens-to-veto-defense-spending-bill-over-proposed-renaming-of-bases-honoring-confederates/ar-BB16cGha

He's really doubling down on his Southern hick base. Problem is (for him) - he's alienating the military and... pretty much everyone else capable of thought. Does he even realizes he's a New Yorker? I expect he'll set an all-time record for biggest loser in his home state by an incumbent. What he's trying to do is create Civil War II, and his fight over renaming of military bases is part of it. I think even most Republicans see he ain't winning this part of the fight. It's time for them to turn on him for their own self-preservation.

Trump is not a political genius. He’s simply an idiot that ran on racism and hate that won by fluke due to a combination of Russian meddling, Comey, general misinformation and a dumb as **** electorate. He has no plan, there is no political calculus. That’s why he keeps doubling down on racism and hate despite the country moving in the opposite direction. He can’t help himself because to him he believes his 2016 win was all because of him.

Pointgod · Post #1392 » by **Pointgod** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 3:27 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
I’m waiting for Popper to chime in that he doesn’t agree with Trump’s “temperament” but the Democratic option is worse.

Yep.

There's no "the other side is worse".

Either you support this traitor or you don't.....

This is why it's useful to have people like Nate and Popper participating in the discussion. They're irritating as hell but they also provide a bit of a reality check as to what's actually going on in our country. Now more than ever it's easy to get stuck in the bubble and think "wow Trump has no chance! everybody hates him!" Even if that's true, if the GOP controls the Senate Democracy is still doomed.

The Fox News propaganda machine has fanned the flamed of hatred and fear in this country among those most susceptible to its message - white supremacists. That emotional force is stronger than you realize.

Watching Star Wars you might wonder why anyone would join the dark side, when all the Good Guys tm are on the light side. Well now you know. They think they're the good guys, because Fox News has brainwashed them into thinking so.

Nate and Popper don’t believe in anything though. Their whole political view amounts to trolling/hating Liberals that’s it. Doesn’t matter if they’re objectively worse off. Nate believes in straight up lies about Antifa and ignores objective truths about White Supremacists. He’s firmly in the 35% of Trump supporters that aren’t going to be moved.

I think it’s more instructive to talk to the people who don’t lean strongly right or left (it’s amazing to me that these people exist) and who aren’t actively engaged in politics. Finding out what it’s going to take to get these people registered and to turn out to vote for Democrats is more beneficial if to protect Democracy at all levels of government.

Post #1393 » by **Zonkerbl** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 3:37 pm

I think Nate and to a lesser extent Popper believe that they agree with what Fox News tells them to believe. It's not that they don't believe anything - shoot, *I* don't believe anything and I am a much less dangerous person than them. The really dangerous people are those who believe whatever their authority figure tells them to believe, because if you have enough of such people you can manipulate them into, say, voting against their own interests, or to destroy Democracy.

Not disagreeing with you, just clarifying - the worst thing you can do in life is believe something out of faith. We have a few good examples in this thread of people who believe in something so hard - that what Fox News tells them is true - that it is impossible to persuade them with actual facts.

It's one thing to *have* faith - that Jesus' or Moses' or Mohammed's light is always there for you to turn to when you need it - and another to *believe out of faith* - to believe a completely made up imaginary truth that has been crafted for you by another human being, claiming to speak for Jesus/Moses/Mohammed. Those are two very, very different things. The former is good for society and building communities and inner growth. The latter is a tool of billionaires and dictators to enslave their followers.

So the problem isn't Trump. Trump was around for a long time before this and didn't cause any damage. The problem is people like Nate and Popper, who can be persuaded to vote for Trump for president, *just because Fox News told them to.*

We've had that problem in this country for a long time - a large portion of the population - not dumb people, because although Nate doesn't approach me in terms of godlike intelligence, he's definitely not dumb - want to be told what to believe. And they don't want to be told that the universe is a big fricking dice game that has no purpose and once you're dead, that's it. People with morals will tell you the truth, which isn't what you want to hear. What people *want* to hear is *lies.* And, based on Fox News' financial success, they're willing to pay for it. To say what people *want* to hear, even though you can prove to them mathematically that it's untrue.

But before to reach these people in order to manipulate them, you had to get them to come to your church, which is costly - only the truly dedicated drag themselves out of bed on a Sunday morning to be lied to by someone who claims to be speaking for Jesus. Now we have cable news going straight into your bedroom, basically for free. And there's no invisible hand of the market place punishing Fox News for telling lies. In fact the lies of Fox News are *encouraged* by the billionaire plutocrats who have the most influence on how such things are regulated. And it's not evil sumbiches like the Koch brothers, it's Bill Gates and Mark Cuban too. If it makes a lot of money, it's fine. During the golden age of journalism, telling lies was a niche market for grocery store counter rags like the Enquirer. Now telling lies is mainstream business.

gtn130 · Post #1394 » by **gtn130** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:13 pm

Popper = guy who watches Fox News uncritically and that's all there is to it

Nate = Stephen Miller

Nate isn't some galactic brain genius but he is smart enough to competently synthesize information, which he does regularly when discussing the NBA. He has been shown, unequivocally, on numerous occasions that his right wing fan fiction articles are exactly that, and he remains steadfastly in support of Trump and still consumes nothing but right wing propaganda knowing full well it's complete bull****. The Trump MAGAverse is simply the reality he wants to live in, and that's what he's doing.

What troubles me is how he has commented on race in the past and how he has openly admitted he doesn't believe in multiculturalism. I get the idea that Nate is just down for another Civil War and doesn't look at liberals as allies on any level whatsoever.

Post #1395 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:17 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
gtn130 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Incredible President we have here! MAGA!

Such lies. The President was briefed back in February. He was given an *additional* oral briefing yesterday.

POTUS isn't the only fricking person reading the briefings. Staff who were delegated to take care of this stuff knew about it and were afraid or too incompetent to bring it to his attention. This is the problem with electing someone who is a Russian plant - people are afraid to criticize Russian in front of him.

In this case, it's not just that he's a liar; he's also grossly negligent in not doing the minimum work that's required of a President. He combines a complete lack of ethics with being absurdly lazy for a President. And what's even more amazing; he doesn't give a f. He thinks people who work hard are losers.

pancakes3 · Post #1396 » by **pancakes3** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:52 pm

Country over Party.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/president-danger-hundreds-who-served-under-george-w-bush-set-n1232637

Post #1397 » by **Zonkerbl** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:10 pm

I think one thing Nate and Popper have going for them is, despite everything they've heard from Fox News, they don't actually actively hate liberals. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's where we're going to have to start from. We don't actually want to murder each other. That's something we should all be able to agree on.

gtn130 · Post #1398 » by **gtn130** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:21 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:I think one thing Nate and Popper have going for them is, despite everything they've heard from Fox News, they don't actually actively hate liberals. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's where we're going to have to start from. We don't actually want to murder each other. That's something we should all be able to agree on.

Disagree. Nate very likely hates all of us

Post #1399 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:27 pm

gtn130 wrote:Popper = guy who watches Fox News uncritically and that's all there is to it

Nate = Stephen Miller

Nate isn't some galactic brain genius but he is smart enough to competently synthesize information, which he does regularly when discussing the NBA. He has been shown, unequivocally, on numerous occasions that his right wing fan fiction articles are exactly that, and he remains steadfastly in support of Trump and still consumes nothing but right wing propaganda knowing full well it's complete bull****. The Trump MAGAverse is simply the reality he wants to live in, and that's what he's doing.

What troubles me is how he has commented on race in the past and how he has openly admitted he doesn't believe in multiculturalism. I get the idea that Nate is just down for another Civil War and doesn't look at liberals as allies on any level whatsoever.

I'm not comfortable with these kind of posts - especially considering they hardly post in this thread anymore.

gtn130 · Post #1400 » by **gtn130** » Wed Jul 1, 2020 6:52 pm

Ruzious wrote:
gtn130 wrote:Popper = guy who watches Fox News uncritically and that's all there is to it

Nate = Stephen Miller

Nate isn't some galactic brain genius but he is smart enough to competently synthesize information, which he does regularly when discussing the NBA. He has been shown, unequivocally, on numerous occasions that his right wing fan fiction articles are exactly that, and he remains steadfastly in support of Trump and still consumes nothing but right wing propaganda knowing full well it's complete bull****. The Trump MAGAverse is simply the reality he wants to live in, and that's what he's doing.

What troubles me is how he has commented on race in the past and how he has openly admitted he doesn't believe in multiculturalism. I get the idea that Nate is just down for another Civil War and doesn't look at liberals as allies on any level whatsoever.

I'm not comfortable with these kind of posts - especially considering they hardly post in this thread anymore.

I'm literally paraphrasing things that happened in past iterations of this thread.