New Head Coach?

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Stick with Billy or Go a new direction?

Poll ended at Wed Aug 5, 2020 6:14 am

Stick with Billy
3
43%
New Head Coach
4
57%
 
Total votes: 7

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New Head Coach? 

Post#1 » by itzmrgigglez » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:14 am

This might be premature as we still have a season to finish but do y’all think we should give Billy Donovan a new contract? Or find a new head coach?

I feel like Donovan really had a chance to show what he can do as coach this season and it did help to have CP3. However, his usage of a 3 guard line up was interesting and innovative. I don’t have a problem with Donovan and I like him.

Potential New Head Coaches:
Kenny Atkinson
Mark Jackson
Dave Joerger
Mike Brown
David Fizdale
Brian Keefe(already in the OKC org)


Links about NBA Head Coach candidates :

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29263878/top-nba-head-coach-prospects-tyronn-lue-tom-thibodeau-chris-finch?platform=amp

https://hoopshabit.com/2020/05/08/nba-ranking-available-head-coaches/
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#2 » by bondom34 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:16 am

My stance on Donovan is known. I like Atkinson, and of that list would only strongly dislike Jackson and Brown (Jackson much worse). I'd add Stackhouse.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#3 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:31 pm

I don't think he's the worst coach in the league but definitely below average. However, not being the worst coach isn't exactly a great reason to bring Billy back. I don't think he is as dumb as others think in regards to "tactical competence" but I do think he is ineffective implementing his philosophies. He would likely do better with younger players, however as they develop I foresee them outgrowing Billy. CP3 was the best thing that could have happened for Billy's career with the exception of coaching Lebron.

Regardless, the only scenario I don't see him returning is if the potential league financial issues teams impact contract negotiations in some way that he's unhappy or Presti opts to save money.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#4 » by jambalaya » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:10 pm

I probably wouldn't take a retread.

Pick the best NBA assistant (or possibly NCAA or international head coach) under 45. See it as a gamble. Move on in 2-3 years if it is not good and promising more.

Must be considered elite on Xs & Os, at least good on teaching D (or bring / get defensive coordinator). Must believe in Moreyball, go far beyond typical NBA coach in using analytics, believe in lineup concentration. Hire an Associate Head Coach to do a lot of the background stuff. Hire a brainiac and have him concentrate on strategy and tactics.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#5 » by Galloisdaman » Thu Jul 2, 2020 9:46 pm

After the LAC and HOU trades a lot of people said OKC would be a lottery team so I suspect Billy will get coach of the year votes.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#6 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Jul 2, 2020 11:36 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:After the LAC and HOU trades a lot of people said OKC would be a lottery team so I suspect Billy will get coach of the year votes.

There are two reasons that it made sense to assume okc would be a lottery team. First, it was assumed that okc would aggressively tank. Second, if Gallo and CP3 had missed significant time with injuries then okc would have been a lottery team. Since neither of those things happened, okc is about where they should be. I would rather have billy than guys like Boylen or Thibs but coach of the year seems a bit of a stretch.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#7 » by Galloisdaman » Fri Jul 3, 2020 1:44 am

ThunderBolt wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:After the LAC and HOU trades a lot of people said OKC would be a lottery team so I suspect Billy will get coach of the year votes.

There are two reasons that it made sense to assume okc would be a lottery team. First, it was assumed that okc would aggressively tank. Second, if Gallo and CP3 had missed significant time with injuries then okc would have been a lottery team. Since neither of those things happened, okc is about where they should be. I would rather have billy than guys like Boylen or Thibs but coach of the year seems a bit of a stretch.


I do not think Billy will win coach of the year. I just expect him to get some votes. :D
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#8 » by Kizz Fastfists » Fri Jul 3, 2020 9:57 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:After the LAC and HOU trades a lot of people said OKC would be a lottery team so I suspect Billy will get coach of the year votes.


You could be right about him getting some votes. This actually shows how pathetic the people doing sports shows are. The "experts" were stupid so Donovan will get coach of the year votes for OKC doing what they should have done. Keep in mind that I said before the season that if OKC didn't move Gallo and CP3 they would be in the playoffs as a first round exit. So from MY perspective they did what was expected. I upset a lot of Thunder fans by saying Presti was risking OKC's first by not moving CP3 and/or Gallo because they were convinced OKC would get a top 5 pick.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#9 » by QPR » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:34 am

ThunderBolt wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:After the LAC and HOU trades a lot of people said OKC would be a lottery team so I suspect Billy will get coach of the year votes.

There are two reasons that it made sense to assume okc would be a lottery team. First, it was assumed that okc would aggressively tank. Second, if Gallo and CP3 had missed significant time with injuries then okc would have been a lottery team. Since neither of those things happened, okc is about where they should be. I would rather have billy than guys like Boylen or Thibs but coach of the year seems a bit of a stretch.


Where they should be is a huge stretch. I don't think anyone expected this current OKC roster to be 40-24 and in contention for home court.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#10 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:02 am

QPR wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:After the LAC and HOU trades a lot of people said OKC would be a lottery team so I suspect Billy will get coach of the year votes.

There are two reasons that it made sense to assume okc would be a lottery team. First, it was assumed that okc would aggressively tank. Second, if Gallo and CP3 had missed significant time with injuries then okc would have been a lottery team. Since neither of those things happened, okc is about where they should be. I would rather have billy than guys like Boylen or Thibs but coach of the year seems a bit of a stretch.


Where they should be is a huge stretch. I don't think anyone expected this current OKC roster to be 40-24 and in contention for home court.

A huge stretch because players are playing better than their abilities or injury prone players have been healthy? Cp3 has missed only one game this year and it wasn’t due to injury. Gallo hasn’t missed extended time. The only player that’s taken a jump is shai which is somewhat expected for his sophomore year.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#11 » by getrichordie » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:09 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
QPR wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:There are two reasons that it made sense to assume okc would be a lottery team. First, it was assumed that okc would aggressively tank. Second, if Gallo and CP3 had missed significant time with injuries then okc would have been a lottery team. Since neither of those things happened, okc is about where they should be. I would rather have billy than guys like Boylen or Thibs but coach of the year seems a bit of a stretch.


Where they should be is a huge stretch. I don't think anyone expected this current OKC roster to be 40-24 and in contention for home court.

A huge stretch because players are playing better than their abilities or injury prone players have been healthy? Cp3 has missed only one game this year and it wasn’t due to injury. Gallo hasn’t missed extended time. The only player that’s taken a jump is shai which is somewhat expected for his sophomore year.


Billy Donovan is an above average coach, IMO. Feel free to disagree. His reputation around the league and resume precedes him. So let me start there.

I think many OKC fans view Westbrook = or > Paul. And George > Gallinari, so even if healthy, I think of you asked fans, they would say we would be worse than last year's iteration.

But yeah, there was talk earlier in the year of trying to find Paul a home and taking on bad contracts for assets, etc. It sure sounded like we wanted to tank for a while.

Losing George + Westbrook in one offseason and replacing them with Paul + Gallo + Shai is a pretty huge difference in terms of personnel and strategy.

But yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but replacing a declining Westbrook with a heady and healthy Paul and having a legitimate stretch 4 and an up and a promising PG (who I thought should have been a top 5 pick, BTW!) is going to be a good thing and capable of replacing if not improving upon last season's production.

With that being said, I felt like Donovan handled it as well as you could have. I think he's made the most of what he's had and considering the holes on our roster (no legitimate good wing + little depth), he's done really well.

I personally want to see Donovan and his staff given the chance to cultivate a bunch of young guys and fully install his offense in the way that a Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich was given a chance.

He's a great basketball mind and if you ask around the league from guys he coached at Florida or Team USA, they have nothing but good things to say except for maybe Durant who is fairly sensitive.

I don't think Presti is stupid and isn't going to give into fan sentiment so I think we keep Donovan unless there are financial issues at play here or Donovan wants to go back to coaching college.

I think some of you think the grass is greener on the other side, but I like where we were at and I appreciate the fact that we haven't had any real tangible issues (just speculative ones from fans reading to deep into quotes they can't find) in the locker room or off the court.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#12 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:35 pm

getrichordie wrote:


Billy Donovan is an above average coach, IMO. Feel free to disagree. His reputation around the league and resume precedes him. So let me start there.


His reputation and resume are primarily collegiate, not professional.

I think many OKC fans view Westbrook = or > Paul. And George > Gallinari, so even if healthy, I think of you asked fans, they would say we would be worse than last year's iteration
.

Which version of Westbrook? Last year’s? I’ll take this version of Paul. Also, the trade wasn’t Russ and George for CP3 and Gallo. You forgot our teams leading scorer, shai.

But yeah, there was talk earlier in the year of trying to find Paul a home and taking on bad contracts for assets, etc. It sure sounded like we wanted to tank for a while.


I don’t disagree.
Losing George + Westbrook in one offseason and replacing them with Paul + Gallo + Shai is a pretty huge difference in terms of personnel and strategy.

I don’t disagree. However there is a reason CP3 is called the point gawd. He could make Jim Boylen look good. If next year he’s gone and billy is back, I think there will be much more clarity about Billy’s ability to run an offense and not shift blame/credit to Russ or cp3.


But yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but replacing a declining Westbrook with a heady and healthy Paul and having a legitimate stretch 4 and an up and a promising PG (who I thought should have been a top 5 pick, BTW!) is going to be a good thing and capable of replacing if not improving upon last season's production.


Agreed.
With that being said, I felt like Donovan handled it as well as you could have. I think he's made the most of what he's had and considering the holes on our roster (no legitimate good wing + little depth), he's done really well.

I personally want to see Donovan and his staff given the chance to cultivate a bunch of young guys and fully install his offense in the way that a Phil Jackson or Greg Popovich was given a chance.



Phil Jackson and Popovich didn’t need an ideal set of circumstances to win. It’s possible that once cp3 and russ are long gone we find out more about Billy’s abilities. At best he’s terry stotts, imo. However, I just not that interested in bending over backwards to give a coach every circumstance possible to prove his abilities. You do that stuff for young players like shai, not expendable coaches.

I don't think Presti is stupid and isn't going to give into fan sentiment so I think we keep Donovan unless there are financial issues at play here or Donovan wants to go back to coaching college.

Nothing presti does or will do surprises me, for better or worse.

I think some of you think the grass is greener on the other side, but I like where we were at and I appreciate the fact that we haven't had any real tangible issues (just speculative ones from fans reading to deep into quotes they can't find) in the locker room or off the court.


I’ve been pretty consistent on where I stand. I don’t think a rebuild is a sure thing. Nothing is a sure thing, including completing this season and next. However I’m a proponent of having a clear plan and working that plan.

Limbo years like this one are a waste because we have shai. If we had no young talent on the roster I wouldn’t be as adamant about it. However if we fail to add another high level young talent to the roster this off season that leaves us going into shai’s third year with no real core around him. Bazley and Dort may develop in to serviceable players but we need all star level talent alongside shai or he will get discontent and want traded. I want to avoid years of unclear direction and then finally being forced to tear it down and trade shai in 2023 because we never committed to a clear path.

There is more than one way to get a young core around shai. I don’t care if we suck for a year, trade up in the draft or manage to get a guy like Oladipo from Orlando and he makes the jump with our team but it needs to happen this offseason.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#13 » by getrichordie » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:53 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:...


I didn't forget about Shai, but what I was getting at is that I think some fans viewed CP3 and Gallinari (+ Shai) as a downgrade from Westbrook + George before the season started.

And I'm with you on this version of Paul > last year's version of Westbrook. I would have traded Westbrook for Paul a long time ago, but that's me. I prefer Paul's archetype over Westbrook's.

Of course Paul has the capacity to make any coach look good just like Curry + Thompson has the capacity to make Kerr look good.

If I had to guess, Donovan will receive a lot of criticism next year if Paul and Gallinari leaves. That's a huge loss in terms of talent and presuming we would be working with a lot of young guys, we are most likely going to look a lot worse. Any time you have a talent deficit, a HC is at risk of looking bad, but I think it is sometimes undeserving which is why a lot of coaches wait for the "right opportunity."

I think for some fans on this board, if the players play well, the credit is never going to go to the coach. They will say it is the players. We've heard this before. If players aren't playing well, it's the coach, not the players. The coaches can never win.

Look at Nurse. Those guys have been developing role players for a long time. They went out and got a Kawhi and a Gasol and Siakam's improvement had little to do with Nurse and more to do with work ethic and Toronto's stellar development staff. Who got the credit? Mostly Nurse. He's a smart coach but he fell into a pretty perfect situation...
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#14 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:38 pm

getrichordie wrote:


I didn't forget about Shai, but what I was getting at is that I think some fans viewed CP3 and Gallinari (+ Shai) as a downgrade from Westbrook + George before the season started.

In terms of this season’s expected record, shai has to be included. That’s what I was primarily referring to.

And I'm with you on this version of Paul > last year's version of Westbrook. I would have traded Westbrook for Paul a long time ago, but that's me. I prefer Paul's archetype over Westbrook's.

A healthy Chris Paul is my dream point guard. However we’ve been very fortunate that his vegan diet has made him bulletproof.

Of course Paul has the capacity to make any coach look good just like Curry + Thompson has the capacity to make Kerr look good.


To a certain extent, yes. However Kerr made Curry and Thompson look a lot better than Mark Jackson did.

If I had to guess, Donovan will receive a lot of criticism next year if Paul and Gallinari leaves. That's a huge loss in terms of talent and presuming we would be working with a lot of young guys, we are most likely going to look a lot worse. Any time you have a talent deficit, a HC is at risk of looking bad, but I think it is sometimes undeserving which is why a lot of coaches wait for the "right opportunity."

The issue with billy is that his contract is expiring. It would be one thing to let him come back and coach a rebuilding year on an existing contract but giving him a long term extension based upon what I’ve seen isn’t the route I want to go.

I think for some fans on this board, if the players play well, the credit is never going to go to the coach. They will say it is the players. We've heard this before. If players aren't playing well, it's the coach, not the players. The coaches can never win.


That’s true for most fans, not just this board. If you have elite talent, you can win with an average coach. Most people don’t really believe Tyronn Lue is a great X’s and O’s guy. The thunder has enough talent to win with Scott brooks. I think Doc Rivers has been in a lot of fortunate situations. But just because a team could win despite not having an elite coach isn’t a reason to stop looking for one. Right now is the time for okc to find that guy, not in the final year of KD’s contract.

Look at Nurse. Those guys have been developing role players for a long time. They went out and got a Kawhi and a Gasol and Siakam's improvement had little to do with Nurse and more to do with work ethic and Toronto's stellar development staff. Who got the credit? Mostly Nurse. He's a smart coach but he fell into a pretty perfect situation...


Nick Nurse winning a championship is like when one of these no names wins a pga major. Are they and up and comer that’s here to stay or will they fall off the face of the earth? I give nurse more credit for this years coaching than last year. That’s not to say I don’t think he’s a good coach. He might be the next Phil Jackson but time is needed. When a coach inherits a virtually identical roster as his predecessor and the team makes a huge jump, that’s evidence of good coaching. Budenholzer, Kerr and Phil Jackson all did that. Teams like the heat and Celtics never bottomed our despite having low end talent for while because Spoelstra and Stevens kept them competitive. Is it possible billy could do the same? Maybe. But I’ve not seen enough that makes me interested in signing him to another long term deal to find out.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#15 » by QPR » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:47 pm

I think this thread is a perfect example of sports philosophy that when things are going well you praise the players and when things are going poorly you blame the coach.

No issue with people not rating Donovan but to take a position that this team is where it should be is disingenuous imo.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#16 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:54 pm

QPR wrote:I think this thread is a perfect example of sports philosophy that when things are going well you praise the players and when things are going poorly you blame the coach.

No issue with people not rating Donovan but to take a position that this team is where it should be is disingenuous imo.

There is a quite a bit of lengthy discussion on this topic in this thread. Simply replying that the answer is disingenuous is kind of a lazy response. Do you feel that Donovan is responsible for Chris Paul and Gallo staying healthy? If both players had missed significant time, what do you think the team's record would be?
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#17 » by QPR » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:49 am

ThunderBolt wrote:
QPR wrote:I think this thread is a perfect example of sports philosophy that when things are going well you praise the players and when things are going poorly you blame the coach.

No issue with people not rating Donovan but to take a position that this team is where it should be is disingenuous imo.

There is a quite a bit of lengthy discussion on this topic in this thread. Simply replying that the answer is disingenuous is kind of a lazy response. Do you feel that Donovan is responsible for Chris Paul and Gallo staying healthy? If both players had missed significant time, what do you think the team's record would be?


Paul yeah, not sure Gallo has ever been a significant needle-mover while healthy. I think the biggest factor has been Schroder, as he has gone from a very inefficient player to an very efficient one, which has allowed Donovan to use the three guard line-up extensively.

What do you think the team's record would be with a healthy Paul/Gallo and a coach like Bud or Nurse?
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#18 » by bondom34 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:02 am

Gallo was the Clippers best player last year. And he's been probably OKC's second best. He's always been really good, just always hurt. Last year people considered him a borderline all star.

Going back the last 5 years he's been 38th, 79th, 40th, 140th and 141st in LARAPM. He's been great by any metric available except he's been injured every year prior to the last two pretty consistently. He played 71 games once, other than that last year's 68 was his max.
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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#19 » by getrichordie » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:08 am

QPR wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
QPR wrote:I think this thread is a perfect example of sports philosophy that when things are going well you praise the players and when things are going poorly you blame the coach.

No issue with people not rating Donovan but to take a position that this team is where it should be is disingenuous imo.

There is a quite a bit of lengthy discussion on this topic in this thread. Simply replying that the answer is disingenuous is kind of a lazy response. Do you feel that Donovan is responsible for Chris Paul and Gallo staying healthy? If both players had missed significant time, what do you think the team's record would be?


Paul yeah, not sure Gallo has ever been a significant needle-mover while healthy. I think the biggest factor has been Schroder, as he has gone from a very inefficient player to an very efficient one, which has allowed Donovan to use the three guard line-up extensively.

What do you think the team's record would be with a healthy Paul/Gallo and a coach like Bud or Nurse?


Well, obviously, we would have 5 more wins under Bud/Nurse than Donovan. :roll:

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Re: New Head Coach? 

Post#20 » by bondom34 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:39 am

Wins weren't really the goal this year, but if people really think Nurse and Donovan are comparable not sure where to go.

That said, he's a downgrade from Brooks to me, and Brooks was let go. I've given Brooks his props when he was around and he had better rosters so there were more players to credit.
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