Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 268 in MSG Usman vs Colby 2, Rose vs Zhang 2

[HighRyzer83]

The Main Card is official fam, everyone made weight! Since I've got the detailed breakdowns in the extended podcast with FTESWL, I thought I'd take a minute to cover the parts of I didn't with some undercard names that you may not have heard of but who will probably be a lot of fun to watch.

Went deep on the main card here: https://anchor.fm/FTESWL/episodes/UFC-251-Podcast-Preview-egfvsv

Who to look out for on the undercards:
Leo Santos: Let's start with accolades. ADCC bronze medal, World Jiu Jitsu Bronze and silver medals in back to back years. Hasn't lost a fight since 2009, been in the UFC since 2013. He's TKO'ed Kevin Lee and submitted Tony Rocco Martin. 6-0-1 in the UFC with a draw to Norman Parke being the closest thing to a blemish. Also, at ADCC he tapped out a prime GSP with a not quite flying armbar and he did that in about 1 minute flat:

Spoiler:

This was the moment that I began watching ADCC's and really opened up to the competitive BJJ world, no joke.

Watch on YouTube

So how come you don't know him? He's had 1 fight since 2016 and averages 1 fight per year since joining the UFC. It like if Khabib never got past the injury bug. That's kept him from ever climbing the ladder to see where he stands among the better guys. His opponent is 10-0 Roman Bogatov, a fighter I'm not familiar with.

Jiri Prochazka: One thing the UFC has always been good about is smiting champions from other leagues by throwing them to the absolute wolves. It's an opportunity if you're Alvarez or Gaethje and a nightmare if you're say...Will Brooks. Enter Rizin LHW champ Jiri Prochazka; a man who last tasted defeat in 2015 against a near prime King Mo. He would avenge that one lost. His resume basically shows a guy who has beaten the best LHW's that aren't locked in to Bellator and the UFC. He's beaten Jake Heun, King Mo, C.B. Dollaway and Fabio Maldonado; those are all former UFC fighters who stuck around a while.

Want more? In the 10 wins since his last loss, Jiri has 9 knock outs. In the 11 fights prior to that he had 10 wins by finish and 1 draw (8 KO's and 2 submissions for the dubs). In 30 fights Prochazka has seen the scorecards twice...it's kill or be killed. He's getting the champ treatment too, he'll face Volkan Oezdemir. Oezdemir is the guy who most people got robbed by Dominick Reyes the way many think Reyes got robbed by Jon Jones. Oezdemir is among the most well rounded bigs in MMA point blank, he's super athletic and without any glaring weaknesses. This fight could be a show stealer and the winner ought to get immediate high rank competition.

Here's 5 mins of Jiri mostly just mauling people, but there's a nice clip of him in adversity mixed in:

Spoiler:

Watch how often Jiri's striking literally moves the fighter's entire body from force.

Watch on YouTube

Elizeu Zaleski dos Santos: Zaleski dos Santos starts from a Capoeira base and treats every fight like he's Liam Neeson and the other guy kidnapped his family. Dude is 8-2 in the UFC and one of those was his debut in 2015. He's beaten a lot of high caliber unranked opponents (Curtis Millender, Sean Strickland, Omari Akhmedov, Max Griffin, Lyman Good). But the record, great as it is, isn't the main reason I list him. Zaleski dos Santos is a buzz saw and he finishes dudes with everything. I've seen him close on spinning heel kicks, flying knees, body shots and submissions (BJJ Black Belt with the same pace on the ground as standing). Here are some examples:

Spoiler:

Capoeira dudes explode across distance like nobody else...

Watch on YouTube

But that's not all: Here's where things get even more interesting. His opponent, Muslim Salikhov has a nickname that should clue you in to my excitement...King of Kung Fu. He's one of only 2 non-Chinese competitors to ever win a Wushu World championship. He has 200 kickboxing fights and 12 KO's in 18 mma fights (only 2 decisions). Salikhov had arguably the knockout of the year once a while a back and he did it to well known former UFC lightweight, Melvin Guillard...

Spoiler:

This might be my future avatar

So yeah...the undercard is absolute fire. I haven't even mentioned that former top 15 Marcin Tybura is on the early prelims or how Makwan Amirkhani is REALLY talented (mainly because he gasses out and loses fights). The UFC has this stacked PPV, so they've put up some really entertaining prospects for the prelims but the backfire here is that no one's talking about these guys.

Absolutely stacked. Can't wait.
It's crazy how Aldo vs Yan is going under the radar. I got $50 on Yan, who do you have?

[Clyde_Style]

Nah it's common among MMA forums. In fact the majority of mma fans and fighters (masvidal,Lewis,cobly,etc) like trump and trash the left. I completely avoid politics threads on sherdog, the conservatives are like piranhas lol. anyway, Marty is his thing going back to his wrestling days.

Oh wow. Didn’t know all that. But Usman is a beast in the octagon so I don’t know about him being “fake” in that way. Maybe his personality or interview skills are. I really haven’t listened to much of anything these fighters have to say unless it’s one of the smarter ones like DC, DCruz, Bisping. Masvidal is fun to listen to because he’s such a badass. I know he likes Trump but I think that’s because of that Cuba stuff.

Colby is the one with the truly fake persona from what I’ve learned. I don’t think he should be the one calling anyone else fake.

Yeah, to expand on the Marty thing, I think it's just a big thing with wrestling heads in general because it comes from Usman's wrestling days. If I'm not mistaken, Ben Askren is the one who made that nickname stick in MMA circles, "Marty from Nebraska" was coined by him rather than Colby if I'm not mistaken.

My favorite fighters to listen to are the cerebral cats. I rate Masvidal in that batch and recent O'Malley interviews fit that a lot too. The guys that are reading their opponents outside of the octagon as well as in it are the ones I get the biggest kick out of. I like analytical guys like DC, Cruz and Bisping too though. Dan Hardy is another one in that boat, if you haven't seen his breakdowns, I think they're a joy to watch.

Dan Hardy is a very cool guy, but his thoughtfulness is more evident as a commentator than he exhibited as a fighter. His experience gave him the insights, but in the octagon I recall him as more of a brawler than a technician. He is probably my favorite MMA commentator though. I used to watch his breakdowns and found them well done. I don't follow this stuff anymore, just tune in on and off so I don't know what Dan is up to now. I enjoy Bisping too. His spirit is infectious.

[j4remi]

Absolutely stacked. Can't wait.
It's crazy how Aldo vs Yan is going under the radar. I got $50 on Yan, who do you have?

I'm really intrigued by it. I think it's closer than the odds but I edge it toward Yan. The thing about Yan is his best opponent so far is Jimmie Rivera and he sometimes gets too comfortable exchanging when he doesn't really have to. So I'm not sure if the fact that he sometimes has defensive lapses is just because he realizes he has a big edge striking or if it's a habit that could pop up and get him caught against Aldo.

Otherwise, I like Yan's feinting style against Aldo's head movement and defense. But then the other question comes up which is that Aldo after feeling Moraes' power fought a bit more forward moving and aggressive (as if the power didn't concern him). If he can do that and put Yan on a back foot instead of chomping on the feints, then he becomes a serious threat...but also more susceptible to the head kick from Yan which is low key filthy.

My picks overall are:
Ribas (but closer than the insane odds)
Rose
Yan
Max
Masvidal (but picking from my heart and acknowledging that the smart play is Usman).

This is the rarest of main cards, I think every single fight can go either way. Usually there's one or two where I'm certain enough that I'll parlay them with my typical bets

[j4remi]

Dan Hardy is a very cool guy, but his thoughtfulness is more evident as a commentator than he exhibited as a fighter. His experience gave him the insights, but in the octagon I recall him as more of a brawler than a technician. He is probably my favorite MMA commentator though. I used to watch his breakdowns and found them well done. I don't follow this stuff anymore, just tune in on and off so I don't know what Dan is up to now. I enjoy Bisping too. His spirit is infectious.

Bisping is awesome fam! If I had to pick one fighter in the booth for every event, Bisping would be my first choice. I like Felder for in person too, mostly because he always sounds like he wishes he could be in there.

Hardy's IQ definitely shines more as an analyst. I remember the Condit loss, it was literally just both guys winging and seeing who lands first. Dan's breakdowns for this event have been on Youtube for each fight and he was doing a UFC show but I'm not sure if it's moved over completely to free on youtube. He's really good though. Ironically, I don't think he's as sharp when he's in the booth live for Euro-events for some reason...maybe related to why he wasn't as tactical during fights, needs the extra time for footage and rewinds (I can't blame him, I watch sequences multiple times and still miss things).

[HarthorneWingo]

Absolutely stacked. Can't wait.
It's crazy how Aldo vs Yan is going under the radar. I got $50 on Yan, who do you have?

I'm really intrigued by it. I think it's closer than the odds but I edge it toward Yan. The thing about Yan is his best opponent so far is Jimmie Rivera and he sometimes gets too comfortable exchanging when he doesn't really have to. So I'm not sure if the fact that he sometimes has defensive lapses is just because he realizes he has a big edge striking or if it's a habit that could pop up and get him caught against Aldo.

Otherwise, I like Yan's feinting style against Aldo's head movement and defense. But then the other question comes up which is that Aldo after feeling Moraes' power fought a bit more forward moving and aggressive (as if the power didn't concern him). If he can do that and put Yan on a back foot instead of chomping on the feints, then he becomes a serious threat...but also more susceptible to the head kick from Yan which is low key filthy.

My picks overall are:
Ribas (but closer than the insane odds)
Rose
Yan
Max
Masvidal (but picking from my heart and acknowledging that the smart play is Usman).

This is the rarest of main cards, I think every single fight can go either way. Usually there's one or two where I'm certain enough that I'll parlay them with my typical bets

Do you think Aldo’s leg kicks could be a determining factor against Yan? As I recall, Aldo’s leg kicks are up there with Barbosa’s.

[NoStatsGuy]

god i wasnt hyped for a card as much as i am for this one in a loooong ass time.

not neccessarily hating on usman, but damn Jorge is a gangsta, absolutely love it. lets go gamebred

[j4remi]

Do you think Aldo’s leg kicks could be a determining factor against Yan? As I recall, Aldo’s leg kicks are up there with Barbosa’s.

They could be if Aldo would ever throw them but he just seems to refuse to want to throw kicks any more. It’s a legit topic of speculation and discussion as to why he stopped using one of his most infamous weapons (falling too in love with boxing being the most famous one).

His kicks definitely were right with Edson before, probably even better imo. If he did bring them to the game, it’d really complicate things for yan since they change the distance and force him to focus on all three levels instead of two. But I don’t think we’ll see much if any. I’d be hype to see it though.

[HarthorneWingo]

Do you think Aldo’s leg kicks could be a determining factor against Yan? As I recall, Aldo’s leg kicks are up there with Barbosa’s.

They could be if Aldo would ever throw them but he just seems to refuse to want to throw kicks any more. It’s a legit topic of speculation and discussion as to why he stopped using one of his most infamous weapons (falling too in love with boxing being the most famous one).

His kicks definitely were right with Edson before, probably even better imo. If he did bring them to the game, it’d really complicate things for yan since they change the distance and force him to focus on all three levels instead of two. But I don’t think we’ll see much if any. I’d be hype to see it though.

After the Hollway fight:

https://www.foxsports.com/ufc/story/coach-reveals-why-jose-aldo-didnt-throw-leg-kicks-at-max-holloway-during-ufc-212-061317

Former UFC featherweight champion Jose Aldo was suffering through a leg injury that prevented him from throwing kicks in his fight with Max Holloway at UFC 212.

That’s according to his head coach Andre Pederneiras, who revealed the injury during a chat with FOX Fight Club after Aldo fell to Holloway in Brazil.

Following a strong first round from Aldo, the longest reigning featherweight champion in UFC history seemed to slow down in the second round before he was put down and out by Holloway in the third.

Throughout the entire fight, Aldo used his boxing but never threw a kick at Holloway, which seemed strange considering that has always been one of his primary weapons.

“Many people ask why he didn’t throw kicks, Aldo had a leg injury, so he couldn’t do any kicking throughout the camp, he couldn’t run, do any of that,” Pederneiras explained (translation courtesy of MMAJunkie). “Not that it takes away from Max Holloway and his win, we’re not saying that at all, but many people asked why he didn’t kick.

“It’s funny, because every round, I’d step down [from the Octagon] and the crowd would be like, ‘tell him to kick!’ and I’d say ‘OK, hang on’ and I’d turn around and only us in the corner knew. We were really avoiding the kicks because of this injury. We were afraid [the muscle] would tear there.”

[Manhattan Project]

Absolutely stacked. Can't wait.
It's crazy how Aldo vs Yan is going under the radar. I got $50 on Yan, who do you have?

I'm really intrigued by it. I think it's closer than the odds but I edge it toward Yan. The thing about Yan is his best opponent so far is Jimmie Rivera and he sometimes gets too comfortable exchanging when he doesn't really have to. So I'm not sure if the fact that he sometimes has defensive lapses is just because he realizes he has a big edge striking or if it's a habit that could pop up and get him caught against Aldo.

Otherwise, I like Yan's feinting style against Aldo's head movement and defense. But then the other question comes up which is that Aldo after feeling Moraes' power fought a bit more forward moving and aggressive (as if the power didn't concern him). If he can do that and put Yan on a back foot instead of chomping on the feints, then he becomes a serious threat...but also more susceptible to the head kick from Yan which is low key filthy.

My picks overall are:
Ribas (but closer than the insane odds)
Rose
Yan
Max
Masvidal (but picking from my heart and acknowledging that the smart play is Usman).

This is the rarest of main cards, I think every single fight can go either way. Usually there's one or two where I'm certain enough that I'll parlay them with my typical bets

What you said about the Masvidal fight, is what I feel about a lot of the fights. Two of my all time favorites in Halloway and Aldo I want to win, I just don't see it happening. Love me some Masvidal, but it's hard to overlook how impressive Usman was against Covington. Masvidal caught on fire with the obliteration of Askren, but there's something to be said that his losses usually come down to decisions and Usman has won a ton of his fights via decision. We know how judges are these days.

[HarthorneWingo]

Absolutely stacked. Can't wait.
It's crazy how Aldo vs Yan is going under the radar. I got $50 on Yan, who do you have?

I'm really intrigued by it. I think it's closer than the odds but I edge it toward Yan. The thing about Yan is his best opponent so far is Jimmie Rivera and he sometimes gets too comfortable exchanging when he doesn't really have to. So I'm not sure if the fact that he sometimes has defensive lapses is just because he realizes he has a big edge striking or if it's a habit that could pop up and get him caught against Aldo.

Otherwise, I like Yan's feinting style against Aldo's head movement and defense. But then the other question comes up which is that Aldo after feeling Moraes' power fought a bit more forward moving and aggressive (as if the power didn't concern him). If he can do that and put Yan on a back foot instead of chomping on the feints, then he becomes a serious threat...but also more susceptible to the head kick from Yan which is low key filthy.

My picks overall are:
Ribas (but closer than the insane odds)
Rose
Yan
Max
Masvidal (but picking from my heart and acknowledging that the smart play is Usman).

This is the rarest of main cards, I think every single fight can go either way. Usually there's one or two where I'm certain enough that I'll parlay them with my typical bets

What you said about the Masvidal fight, is what I feel about a lot of the fights. Two of my all time favorites in Halloway and Aldo I want to win, I just don't see it happening. Love me some Masvidal, but it's hard to overlook how impressive Usman was against Covington. Masvidal caught on fire with the obliteration of Askren, but there's something to be said that his losses usually come down to decisions and Usman has won a ton of his fights via decision. We know how judges are these days.

My POV is that the challenger must always take the belt from a champion. These close fights that can go one way or the other, they're going to go to the champ and I have no problem with that, generally speaking.

[j4remi]

What you said about the Masvidal fight, is what I feel about a lot of the fights. Two of my all time favorites in Halloway and Aldo I want to win, I just don't see it happening. Love me some Masvidal, but it's hard to overlook how impressive Usman was against Covington. Masvidal caught on fire with the obliteration of Askren, but there's something to be said that his losses usually come down to decisions and Usman has won a ton of his fights via decision. We know how judges are these days.

Masvidal used to be notorious for looking like he had a fight in the bag and then just coasting to a split decision loss. He would just let fighters hang around and volume their way to stealing rounds. The Al Iaquinta fight is pretty wild (Paul Daley is another one). You wanna know the worst part though? He lost a lot of decisions where the difference in a round or two was a takedown

I felt really confident in Holloway until he mentioned how difficult training was in Hawaii. Now I'm concerned but don't know how much of that was him playing mind games (DC said Max was fronting). To this day, I don't see that first fight the way everyone else does. It's rare that I don't agree with a mass consensus like this and normally when I do, I look back and can at least see why. This one...I just don't think Volk's first performance was that impressive.

Aldo...I'm worried. Hurdle one was to look okay making weight though and he nailed it. I can't wait to see Yan tested fam, I've been gassing this dude forever. It's one of those fights where I'm gonna be happy with either guy winning.

[HighRyzer83]

Yeah I don't know what max was talking about having to train over zoom. Hawaii is like the least affected state. I live here now for almost two years. They were having beach parties in Oahu like every other weekend for the last two months.

Anyway today's the day boys! $70 is a little steep but IDGAF.

[bringbackhoffa]

FIGHT DAY LEGGO JORGE

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[j4remi]

After the Hollway fight:

https://www.foxsports.com/ufc/story/coach-reveals-why-jose-aldo-didnt-throw-leg-kicks-at-max-holloway-during-ufc-212-061317

Former UFC featherweight champion Jose Aldo was suffering through a leg injury that prevented him from throwing kicks in his fight with Max Holloway at UFC 212.

That’s according to his head coach Andre Pederneiras, who revealed the injury during a chat with FOX Fight Club after Aldo fell to Holloway in Brazil.

Following a strong first round from Aldo, the longest reigning featherweight champion in UFC history seemed to slow down in the second round before he was put down and out by Holloway in the third.

Throughout the entire fight, Aldo used his boxing but never threw a kick at Holloway, which seemed strange considering that has always been one of his primary weapons.

“Many people ask why he didn’t throw kicks, Aldo had a leg injury, so he couldn’t do any kicking throughout the camp, he couldn’t run, do any of that,” Pederneiras explained (translation courtesy of MMAJunkie). “Not that it takes away from Max Holloway and his win, we’re not saying that at all, but many people asked why he didn’t kick.

“It’s funny, because every round, I’d step down [from the Octagon] and the crowd would be like, ‘tell him to kick!’ and I’d say ‘OK, hang on’ and I’d turn around and only us in the corner knew. We were really avoiding the kicks because of this injury. We were afraid [the muscle] would tear there.”

Yeah, the second big theory after the boxing one is that a leg injury nipped it. But everyone points to a different fight for when the injury happened. It'd be interesting if they just weren't explaining why to keep his kicks as a threat to unknowing opponents.

That said, I watched Wonderboy do a fight watching stream for all the competitors tonight. On Aldo vs Yan he made sure to say that if Aldo comes out with his kicks leading the way, it's the way he wins the fight. He pointed out how heavy on the lead leg Yan is (most boxing bases are) and that Yan's high guard leaves his body susceptible to kicks as well. Then later on he called Weidman in to watch a fight and when fans asked about the Aldo/Yan fight; Weidman immediately mentioned Yan's lead leg being there for Aldo to chew up.

So a kicking Aldo is who that these pros are looking for too in order to win the fight. Unrelated, I commented that "you either run from the knee or you eat the knee" about Masvidal. Weidman saw that and responded "Adesanya ran from the knee...I ate the knee."

[HarthorneWingo]

After the Hollway fight:

https://www.foxsports.com/ufc/story/coach-reveals-why-jose-aldo-didnt-throw-leg-kicks-at-max-holloway-during-ufc-212-061317

Former UFC featherweight champion Jose Aldo was suffering through a leg injury that prevented him from throwing kicks in his fight with Max Holloway at UFC 212.

That’s according to his head coach Andre Pederneiras, who revealed the injury during a chat with FOX Fight Club after Aldo fell to Holloway in Brazil.

Following a strong first round from Aldo, the longest reigning featherweight champion in UFC history seemed to slow down in the second round before he was put down and out by Holloway in the third.

Throughout the entire fight, Aldo used his boxing but never threw a kick at Holloway, which seemed strange considering that has always been one of his primary weapons.

“Many people ask why he didn’t throw kicks, Aldo had a leg injury, so he couldn’t do any kicking throughout the camp, he couldn’t run, do any of that,” Pederneiras explained (translation courtesy of MMAJunkie). “Not that it takes away from Max Holloway and his win, we’re not saying that at all, but many people asked why he didn’t kick.

“It’s funny, because every round, I’d step down [from the Octagon] and the crowd would be like, ‘tell him to kick!’ and I’d say ‘OK, hang on’ and I’d turn around and only us in the corner knew. We were really avoiding the kicks because of this injury. We were afraid [the muscle] would tear there.”

Yeah, the second big theory after the boxing one is that a leg injury nipped it. But everyone points to a different fight for when the injury happened. It'd be interesting if they just weren't explaining why to keep his kicks as a threat to unknowing opponents.

That said, I watched Wonderboy do a fight watching stream for all the competitors tonight. On Aldo vs Yan he made sure to say that if Aldo comes out with his kicks leading the way, it's the way he wins the fight. He pointed out how heavy on the lead leg Yan is (most boxing bases are) and that Yan's high guard leaves his body susceptible to kicks as well. Then later on he called Weidman in to watch a fight and when fans asked about the Aldo/Yan fight; Weidman immediately mentioned Yan's lead leg being there for Aldo to chew up.

So a kicking Aldo is who that these pros are looking for too in order to win the fight. Unrelated, I commented that "you either run from the knee or you eat the knee" about Masvidal. Weidman saw that and responded "Adesanya ran from the knee...I ate the knee."

oh man, that’s cool. You got these guys quoting you now. They Jorge always comes in with a truck up his sleeve, i.e. something that he hasn’t shown us before.

I watched UFC Countdown last night and they, of course, replayed the Askren knee. Dude’s leg was twitching like crazy after that one. They also quoted Aldo (or someone from his camp) and they said “the leg is healed” and to expect to see Jose using them. Can’t wait.i feel like Yan really hasn’t been truly tested yet.

[bringbackhoffa]

Glad that none of Ali's clients graced the cover of UFC 4, khabib gets shafted but that's what happens when you align yourself with a crooked manager.

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[HarthorneWingo]

Glad that none of Ali's clients graced the cover of UFC 4, khabib gets shafted but that's what happens when you align yourself with a crooked manager.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

He ripped off his fighters?

[ibraheim718]

Masvidal did not look good at all after the cut to make weight.

[bringbackhoffa]

Glad that none of Ali's clients graced the cover of UFC 4, khabib gets shafted but that's what happens when you align yourself with a crooked manager.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

He ripped off his fighters?

He gets them to agree to whatever the UFC puts forth. Also fyi I'm an Ali hater not sure if you know of his past and he is well documented of his support for Trump on twitter.

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[HarthorneWingo]

Glad that none of Ali's clients graced the cover of UFC 4, khabib gets shafted but that's what happens when you align yourself with a crooked manager.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

He ripped off his fighters?

He gets them to agree to whatever the UFC puts forth. Also fyi I'm an Ali hater not sure if you know of his past and he is well documented of his support for Trump on twitter.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Khabib too?

There are other managers out there if they are dissatisfied. My guess is that he might not fight for every last dollar but he probably keeps them busy and making money. Dana is a ball-buster when is comes to that.