Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released)

[HeadtopChunes]

ya. I know this thread is full of talk about bigs, because of Gasol and Ibaka's FA status and age in general, but theres just so much guard talent in this draft, i dont see how we dont end up drafting one of them. Some talent is sure to fall through, whether its Maledon, Kira Lewis, Hampton or even a guy like Nico

For sure, I don’t think the draft should be used to patch roster holes. Thats what FA is for.

Most of the gaurds are just more talented than the bigs/forwards in this draft imo and we don’t have a single gaurd on a long term contract either. Even if we do sign Fred to a long term deal, in 4/5 years a gaurd drafted this year would just be hitting their prime while Fred exits his.

Combine that with our system preferring multiple ballhandlers, i think we should be absolutely fine with drafting a gaurd especially if they can play multiple positions like Maledon, Maxey etc

Not too worry about guards, since there could be more supply than demand. There would be more (talented) forward next season, but I am still unsure about drafting a guard this year.
I think some of them have their concerns Bane (concern with short wingspan), Maledon (concern with lateral quickness on defense), Ramsey (concern with his focus), Bolmaro (concern with A:T ratio), etc.

Unless someone like Kira Lewis drops, who seems to be a bit more overall, otherwise, there could be holes at our range regardless of drafting a guard or forward.

Well, talent assessment varies strongly on an individual level (even among professional scouts), eg I'd take Maledon much higher than I'd ever take Kira.

But speaking just my opinion some of these guards have star upside and the weaknesses of the bigs/forwards we are discussing are much more significant.

There are some big/forwards with star upside later in the first round like Pat Williams/McDaniels/Pokusevski, but the majority of them look like specialists/bench players to me. Which are much easier to sign in FA and are already developed/ready to contribute from day 1.(ie picking up Rondae for the min vs using your pick on Paul Reed)

IMO, Raptors have the best development system in the league right now and we should do our best to bring in prospects with real star potential to best utilize it. I think picking a low ceiling prospect would just be a waste of that system.

So my overall point isn't that we should pick a guard, its that we should pick the prospect with the most upside regardless of position, its just in my evaluation most of those are guards.

[OGLife]

Does anyone see a taller Jose Calderon with Deni Avdija?

Also, I would love to see Daniel Oturu get a chance to be developed under us. He could surprise hard with the right development staff.

[GM89]

Well, talent assessment varies strongly on an individual level (even among professional scouts), eg I'd take Maledon much higher than I'd ever take Kira.

But speaking just my opinion some of these guards have star upside and the weaknesses of the bigs/forwards we are discussing are much more significant.

There are some big/forwards with star upside later in the first round like Pat Williams/McDaniels/Pokusevski, but the majority of them look like specialists/bench players to me. Which are much easier to sign in FA and are already developed/ready to contribute from day 1.(ie picking up Rondae for the min vs using your pick on Paul Reed)

IMO, Raptors have the best development system in the league right now and we should do our best to bring in prospects with real star potential to best utilize it. I think picking a low ceiling prospect would just be a waste of that system.

So my overall point isn't that we should pick a guard, its that we should pick the prospect with the most upside regardless of position, its just in my evaluation most of those are guards.

RHJ was a terrible 3pt shooter in college and for whatever reason failed to show any improvement after being drafted. I guess the Nets were desperate for a wing defender in 2015 seeing that if he was in this year's draft there's almost no chance he gets drafted in the first round.

I don't believe it's fair to slot Paul Reed in the same boat as RHJ. Besides being longer Reed has noticeably better defensive stats in college has shown to make the 3pt shot a part of his game even if it's a little inconsistent right now.

Raptors Cage has a great article about Reed and neatly summarizes what people are saying about him.

"Why he’s projected to drop

Aside from the weaknesses outlined above, The Athletic’s Ethan Strauss details that teams shy away from picking up guys like Reed because they don’t have any definitive position. “If he’s undervalued in this draft, I can understand how it happened. Like Siakam before him, he’s now something of a skinny tweener big who can’t fit neatly into established roles and rhythms. At the college level, he’s almost miscast, asked to imitate a center’s duties while the guards handle and create. Such tweeners can be hard to count on and difficult to project. If they hit, though? A tall wing who moves seamlessly between positions and jobs is immensely valuable.”

If there is a formula to developing these “skinny tweener bigs”, as Strauss labels them, we know that Toronto has it. They’ve already done it with Pascal Siakam, and while OG Anunoby has more muscle than Reed, we’re seeing his development starting to come along nicely too. Reed is a kid who is willing to work, and in his own words, the one thing he wants NBA teams to know about him is, “put me in any position, and I’m going to make a difference.”
http://www.raptorscage.ca/the-late-20s-paul-reed/

[Dalek]

For sure, I don’t think the draft should be used to patch roster holes. Thats what FA is for.

Most of the gaurds are just more talented than the bigs/forwards in this draft imo and we don’t have a single gaurd on a long term contract either. Even if we do sign Fred to a long term deal, in 4/5 years a gaurd drafted this year would just be hitting their prime while Fred exits his.

Combine that with our system preferring multiple ballhandlers, i think we should be absolutely fine with drafting a gaurd especially if they can play multiple positions like Maledon, Maxey etc

Not too worry about guards, since there could be more supply than demand. There would be more (talented) forward next season, but I am still unsure about drafting a guard this year.
I think some of them have their concerns Bane (concern with short wingspan), Maledon (concern with lateral quickness on defense), Ramsey (concern with his focus), Bolmaro (concern with A:T ratio), etc.

Unless someone like Kira Lewis drops, who seems to be a bit more overall, otherwise, there could be holes at our range regardless of drafting a guard or forward.

Well, talent assessment varies strongly on an individual level (even among professional scouts), eg I'd take Maledon much higher than I'd ever take Kira.

But speaking just my opinion some of these guards have star upside and the weaknesses of the bigs/forwards we are discussing are much more significant.

There are some big/forwards with star upside later in the first round like Pat Williams/McDaniels/Pokusevski, but the majority of them look like specialists/bench players to me. Which are much easier to sign in FA and are already developed/ready to contribute from day 1.(ie picking up Rondae for the min vs using your pick on Paul Reed)

IMO, Raptors have the best development system in the league right now and we should do our best to bring in prospects with real star potential to best utilize it. I think picking a low ceiling prospect would just be a waste of that system.

So my overall point isn't that we should pick a guard, its that we should pick the prospect with the most upside regardless of position, its just in my evaluation most of those are guards.

I feel like this is not a bad or weak draft as much as it is a project draft. There are very few guys who look like immediate contributors in Toronto's range. Even the guards like Maledon and Tyrell Terry are so young that they have a ways to go to be able to compete at an NBA level. Although, Maledon having a 6-10 wingspan makes me think he is the next Frank Nitilkina who came in early and contributed.

Only guys like Kira Lewis, Devon Dotson and Malachi Flynn look ready for a back-up role. Lewis being the only one who looks like he could end up as a starter at some point.

[HeadtopChunes]

RHJ was a terrible 3pt shooter in college and for whatever reason failed to show any improvement after being drafted. I guess the Nets were desperate for a wing defender in 2015 seeing that if he was in this year's draft there's almost no chance he gets drafted in the first round.

I don't believe it's fair to slot Paul Reed in the same boat as RHJ. Besides being longer Reed has noticeably better defensive stats in college has shown to make the 3pt shot a part of his game even if it's a little inconsistent right now.

Raptors Cage has a great article about Reed and neatly summarizes what people are saying about him.

"Why he’s projected to drop

Aside from the weaknesses outlined above, The Athletic’s Ethan Strauss details that teams shy away from picking up guys like Reed because they don’t have any definitive position. “If he’s undervalued in this draft, I can understand how it happened. Like Siakam before him, he’s now something of a skinny tweener big who can’t fit neatly into established roles and rhythms. At the college level, he’s almost miscast, asked to imitate a center’s duties while the guards handle and create. Such tweeners can be hard to count on and difficult to project. If they hit, though? A tall wing who moves seamlessly between positions and jobs is immensely valuable.”

If there is a formula to developing these “skinny tweener bigs”, as Strauss labels them, we know that Toronto has it. They’ve already done it with Pascal Siakam, and while OG Anunoby has more muscle than Reed, we’re seeing his development starting to come along nicely too. Reed is a kid who is willing to work, and in his own words, the one thing he wants NBA teams to know about him is, “put me in any position, and I’m going to make a difference.”
http://www.raptorscage.ca/the-late-20s-paul-reed/

I don't think Rondae is an unfair comparison for anyone taken in the first round this draft, Rondae is probably a top 15ish player from his draft Rondae was one the best defenders and among the best and most versatile defenders in the NBA this year.

If anything I think Siakam comparisons are unfair, Siakam is an extreme outlier and expecting every skinny/tall forward who can kind of dribble to be that is unfair to me.

Reed's jumper is a mess right now and will require a lot of work to become a passable shooter. I'm just not too optimistic that he gets there. The rest of his offensive skills aren't great either especially combined with his skinny frame. I think the defense should be good but he's not going to have the same impact in the NBA, especially since he needs to gain some weight and already doesn't have the quickest feet.

The stats kind of overrate his defense IMO, since his coach just let him do whatever he wanted. In a more disciplined NBA scheme, it will be a little different.

I think his best-case scenario is Jerami Grant-ish, which is a top 20 player in this draft, just not a special player in the league.

[GM89]

RHJ was a terrible 3pt shooter in college and for whatever reason failed to show any improvement after being drafted. I guess the Nets were desperate for a wing defender in 2015 seeing that if he was in this year's draft there's almost no chance he gets drafted in the first round.

I don't believe it's fair to slot Paul Reed in the same boat as RHJ. Besides being longer Reed has noticeably better defensive stats in college has shown to make the 3pt shot a part of his game even if it's a little inconsistent right now.

Raptors Cage has a great article about Reed and neatly summarizes what people are saying about him.

"Why he’s projected to drop

Aside from the weaknesses outlined above, The Athletic’s Ethan Strauss details that teams shy away from picking up guys like Reed because they don’t have any definitive position. “If he’s undervalued in this draft, I can understand how it happened. Like Siakam before him, he’s now something of a skinny tweener big who can’t fit neatly into established roles and rhythms. At the college level, he’s almost miscast, asked to imitate a center’s duties while the guards handle and create. Such tweeners can be hard to count on and difficult to project. If they hit, though? A tall wing who moves seamlessly between positions and jobs is immensely valuable.”

If there is a formula to developing these “skinny tweener bigs”, as Strauss labels them, we know that Toronto has it. They’ve already done it with Pascal Siakam, and while OG Anunoby has more muscle than Reed, we’re seeing his development starting to come along nicely too. Reed is a kid who is willing to work, and in his own words, the one thing he wants NBA teams to know about him is, “put me in any position, and I’m going to make a difference.”
http://www.raptorscage.ca/the-late-20s-paul-reed/

I don't think Rondae is an unfair comparison for anyone taken in the first round this draft, Rondae is probably a top 15ish player from his draft Rondae was one the best defenders and among the best and most versatile defenders in the NBA this year.

If anything I think Siakam comparisons are unfair, Siakam is an extreme outlier and expecting every skinny/tall forward who can kind of dribble to be that is unfair to me.

Reed's jumper is a mess right now and will require a lot of work to become a passable shooter. I'm just not too optimistic that he gets there. The rest of his offensive skills aren't great either especially combined with his skinny frame. I think the defense should be good but he's not going to have the same impact in the NBA, especially since he needs to gain some weight and already doesn't have the quickest feet.

The stats kind of overrate his defense IMO, since his coach just let him do whatever he wanted. In a more disciplined NBA scheme, it will be a little different.

I think his best-case scenario is Jerami Grant-ish, which is a top 20 player in this draft, just not a special player in the league.

Ironically the score did a redraft of the 2015 draft and had Raptors taking RHJ. Maybe his career would've turned out better if the raps developed him. https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1965519

I totally understand that expecting Reed to become the next Siakam is wishful thinking. It's kind of what happened when teams drafted MKG, Winslow, Stanley Johnson and RHJ expecting them to develop into the next Kawhi. Maybe we all just got spoiled with how Masai managed to snag underrated gems in Siakam, Freddy, Norman, and TD. Or perhaps the Raps created a formula for drafting and developing players allowing them to have more hits rather than misses.

[Psubs]

I totally understand that expecting Reed to become the next Siakam is wishful thinking. It's kind of what happened when teams drafted MKG, Winslow, Stanley Johnson and RHJ expecting them to develop into the next Kawhi. Maybe we all just got spoiled with how Masai managed to snag underrated gems in Siakam, Freddy, Norman, and TD. Or perhaps the Raps created a formula for drafting and developing players allowing them to have more hits rather than misses.

It's pretty much the 905 system mimicking the big club with good coaches. TD is an outlier of an outlier as he stuck and skipped Freddy's dues in the 905. That summer league game, Tolz and others had the eye and balls to make the calls before the game was over (I think). Sometimes you just have to see how they hang against better competition and they aren't the only player on their college team trying to do too much.

[HeadtopChunes]

Heres a guy that we haven’t discussed yet

Georgios Kalaitzakis

6’7 gaurd out of Greece

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Psubs]

Heres a guy that we haven’t discussed yet

Georgios Kalaitzakis

6’7 gaurd out of Greece

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Pretty sure I did or someone else quite a while ago as an option for #58.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1904610&p=82723131&hilit=Georgios+Kalaitzakis#p82723131

All the way back on April 11 when he declared.

[Syd-TK3]

Heres a guy that we haven’t discussed yet

Georgios Kalaitzakis

6’7 gaurd out of Greece

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Pretty sure I did or someone else quite a while ago as an option for #58.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1904610&p=82723131&hilit=Georgios+Kalaitzakis#p82723131

All the way back on April 11 when he declared.

Well this my first time seeing him

I guess he's basically a older bolmaro with less defense and upside?

[nabbs]

The more I think about it, the more I think Paul Reed is the pick. Consensus is volatile on him and he profiles as an analytics darling. Toronto probably thinks their culture and system can maximize his offensive potential

[HeadtopChunes]

Heres a guy that we haven’t discussed yet

Georgios Kalaitzakis

6’7 gaurd out of Greece

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Pretty sure I did or someone else quite a while ago as an option for #58.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1904610&p=82723131&hilit=Georgios+Kalaitzakis#p82723131

All the way back on April 11 when he declared.

My bad lol, it feels like its been years since April tbf

[Dalek]

My only mention is that Greek players have traditionally had a hard time in the NBA and many don't even come over. I think it might be a language thing or it is hard to leave Europe and adapt to N America. That is not to say Greek players are not talented. Their NT is right behind Spain and France.

I think Spanoulis was a great player who came over and he couldn't get off the bench in Houston. I remember Georgis Printzis who Toronto held rights for and it never worked out. Kostos Koufos played for a while but he played in the NCAA so maybe he had more time to adapt. Giannis might be the only huge success story.

[Psubs]

My bad lol, it feels like its been years since April tbf

All good. Back in April were saying that he'd be gone by #58 but I don't see him on any recent top 60 mocks.

If he's friend's with Giannis then draft him.

[nabbs]

I think I’m leaning towards Paul Reed and Skylar Mays. Both guys grade out well analytically and fit the raps culture. They are on the older side so I wonder if the raps are willing to go young or even stash.


Another thing to consider is trading down? Don’t think this is the draft to trade up in unless the Raps absolutely fall in love with someone but I don’t see who

[Psubs]

I think I’m leaning towards Paul Reed and Skylar Mays. Both guys grade out well analytically and fit the raps culture. They are on the older side so I wonder if the raps are willing to go young or even stash.


Another thing to consider is trading down? Don’t think this is the draft to trade up in unless the Raps absolutely fall in love with someone but I don’t see who

Not a draft to trade up. Who's to say that Toppin will be better much better than Reed? Toppin could be Amare 2.0 and Reed could be Andrei Kirilenko.

Mays may be around at #58. There are so many guards that might be taken between #28 and #57; Terry, Manion, Ramsey, Winston, Dotson, Riller, Trey Jones, Pritchard, Quickley, Flynn, Hagans, Butler, Bane, Joe. Some may slip and all of them could be drafted before Mays.

I'd like #28 Reed and maybe Mays or Bane drops all the way to #58.

[Syd-TK3]

Edit nvm in regards to Poku
I wouldn't be totally against a project pick if he's there at 28 considering the good record our development team has gained and it's been awhile since we took that route

[super_balls]

I think I’m leaning towards Paul Reed and Skylar Mays. Both guys grade out well analytically and fit the raps culture. They are on the older side so I wonder if the raps are willing to go young or even stash.


Another thing to consider is trading down? Don’t think this is the draft to trade up in unless the Raps absolutely fall in love with someone but I don’t see who

Not a draft to trade up. Who's to say that Toppin will be better much better than Reed? Toppin could be Amare 2.0 and Reed could be Andrei Kirilenko.

Mays may be around at #58. There are so many guards that might be taken between #28 and #57; Terry, Manion, Ramsey, Winston, Dotson, Riller, Trey Jones, Pritchard, Quickley, Flynn, Hagans, Butler, Bane, Joe. Some may slip and all of them could be drafted before Mays.

I'd like #28 Reed and maybe Mays or Bane drops all the way to #58.

That’s a dream scenario for me... Reed and Mays (or Riller).

[Psubs]

I think I’m leaning towards Paul Reed and Skylar Mays. Both guys grade out well analytically and fit the raps culture. They are on the older side so I wonder if the raps are willing to go young or even stash.


Another thing to consider is trading down? Don’t think this is the draft to trade up in unless the Raps absolutely fall in love with someone but I don’t see who

Not a draft to trade up. Who's to say that Toppin will be better much better than Reed? Toppin could be Amare 2.0 and Reed could be Andrei Kirilenko.

Mays may be around at #58. There are so many guards that might be taken between #28 and #57; Terry, Manion, Ramsey, Winston, Dotson, Riller, Trey Jones, Pritchard, Quickley, Flynn, Hagans, Butler, Bane, Joe. Some may slip and all of them could be drafted before Mays.

I'd like #28 Reed and maybe Mays or Bane drops all the way to #58.

That’s a dream scenario for me... Reed and Mays (or Riller).

Ya, Reed or Tillman at #28 and someone that drops at #58 (or Malik Fitts or Lamine Diane).

[HeadtopChunes]

Not a huge Mays fan (or any of the LSU guys really), would definitely prefer Riller if hes there.

Also prefer like Jared Butler (special handle) and Isaiah Joe (special shooter) in the 2nd

Problem is most these guys will be gone by 58.

A trade back from 28 could make sense, given there isn’t really a talent dropoff, but then whos trading up?