yahboi617 wrote:Onyeka Ongunwu seems similar, would y'all agree?
he's a high lottery pick
nobody is sleeping on him
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yahboi617 wrote:Onyeka Ongunwu seems similar, would y'all agree?
hugepatsfan wrote:Where do people see Kira Lewis and Patrick Williams going? Those are my two favorite prospects for Boston. Right now we are projected to get #17 for the MEM pick. I'm really hoping that NO wins the 8 seed from Memphis that way the pick moves up to #14 and NO falls back. I think jumping NO and ORL in this case should be able to get us Kira Lewis. I think he could be there even if we stay at #17 but I'd like to move up a bit.
How high do people think Boston could get for #26, #30, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder? Am I way off thinking that can be consolidated down to a pick in the range for Patrick Williams? I'm thinking it would be #26, #30 for a pick in the early 20s and then that pick, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder for a mid teens pick to get Pat Williams.
Am I way off in value? I've seen some people put Williams at #11 to SA but I've also seen a lot of mocks with him going to us at #17. So it seems realistic that a mid teens pick could land him. Am I realistic with #26/#30/Grant Williams/2021 1st getting us in that range?
karkinos wrote:yahboi617 wrote:Onyeka Ongunwu seems similar, would y'all agree?
he's a high lottery pick
nobody is sleeping on him
yahboi617 wrote:hugepatsfan wrote:Where do people see Kira Lewis and Patrick Williams going? Those are my two favorite prospects for Boston. Right now we are projected to get #17 for the MEM pick. I'm really hoping that NO wins the 8 seed from Memphis that way the pick moves up to #14 and NO falls back. I think jumping NO and ORL in this case should be able to get us Kira Lewis. I think he could be there even if we stay at #17 but I'd like to move up a bit.
How high do people think Boston could get for #26, #30, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder? Am I way off thinking that can be consolidated down to a pick in the range for Patrick Williams? I'm thinking it would be #26, #30 for a pick in the early 20s and then that pick, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder for a mid teens pick to get Pat Williams.
Am I way off in value? I've seen some people put Williams at #11 to SA but I've also seen a lot of mocks with him going to us at #17. So it seems realistic that a mid teens pick could land him. Am I realistic with #26/#30/Grant Williams/2021 1st getting us in that range?
I'm with you on Kira lewis, pat williams is a lot like vassel but bigger but my guy is Sadiq bey for the celts. Less of an athlete but a great shooter and defensively sound while not a stopper. Trading 26, 30 and 2021 1st should get you into late lottery or at least high enough to double dip. I would hate to see grant get traded (an I don't think he will) because of his great defense and shooting post 0/23 were he shot 35%. If we needed to add a player I think Romeo or rob would get the job done
2. Killian Hayes (Ratiopharm Ulm, PG, 2001)Spoiler:
3. Onyeka Okongwu (USC, C, Freshman)Spoiler:
5. Obi Toppin (Dayton, PF/C, Sophomore)Spoiler:
6. Deni Avdija (Israel, SF/PF, 2001)Spoiler:
8. Isaac Okoro (Auburn, SF/PF, Freshman)Spoiler:
9. Devin Vassell (Florida State, SF, Sophomore)Spoiler:
12. Patrick Williams (Florida State, SF/PF, Freshman)Spoiler:
13. Tyrese Haliburton (Iowa State, PG/SG, Sophomore)Spoiler:
Jamaaliver wrote:2. Killian Hayes (Ratiopharm Ulm, PG, 2001)Spoiler:
3. Onyeka Okongwu (USC, C, Freshman)Spoiler:
5. Obi Toppin (Dayton, PF/C, Sophomore)Spoiler:
6. Deni Avdija (Israel, SF/PF, 2001)Spoiler:
8. Isaac Okoro (Auburn, SF/PF, Freshman)Spoiler:
9. Devin Vassell (Florida State, SF, Sophomore)Spoiler:
12. Patrick Williams (Florida State, SF/PF, Freshman)Spoiler:
13. Tyrese Haliburton (Iowa State, PG/SG, Sophomore)Spoiler:
hugepatsfan wrote:Where do people see Kira Lewis and Patrick Williams going? Those are my two favorite prospects for Boston. Right now we are projected to get #17 for the MEM pick. I'm really hoping that NO wins the 8 seed from Memphis that way the pick moves up to #14 and NO falls back. I think jumping NO and ORL in this case should be able to get us Kira Lewis. I think he could be there even if we stay at #17 but I'd like to move up a bit.
How high do people think Boston could get for #26, #30, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder? Am I way off thinking that can be consolidated down to a pick in the range for Patrick Williams? I'm thinking it would be #26, #30 for a pick in the early 20s and then that pick, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder for a mid teens pick to get Pat Williams.
Am I way off in value? I've seen some people put Williams at #11 to SA but I've also seen a lot of mocks with him going to us at #17. So it seems realistic that a mid teens pick could land him. Am I realistic with #26/#30/Grant Williams/2021 1st getting us in that range?
clyde21 wrote:hugepatsfan wrote:Where do people see Kira Lewis and Patrick Williams going? Those are my two favorite prospects for Boston. Right now we are projected to get #17 for the MEM pick. I'm really hoping that NO wins the 8 seed from Memphis that way the pick moves up to #14 and NO falls back. I think jumping NO and ORL in this case should be able to get us Kira Lewis. I think he could be there even if we stay at #17 but I'd like to move up a bit.
How high do people think Boston could get for #26, #30, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder? Am I way off thinking that can be consolidated down to a pick in the range for Patrick Williams? I'm thinking it would be #26, #30 for a pick in the early 20s and then that pick, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder for a mid teens pick to get Pat Williams.
Am I way off in value? I've seen some people put Williams at #11 to SA but I've also seen a lot of mocks with him going to us at #17. So it seems realistic that a mid teens pick could land him. Am I realistic with #26/#30/Grant Williams/2021 1st getting us in that range?
where does Kira fit in with Boston with Kemba, Smart, Brown, Langford, Edwards and Waters already on the roster?
i think Boston takes Poku if he's there at 17 for sure
clyde21 wrote:hugepatsfan wrote:Where do people see Kira Lewis and Patrick Williams going? Those are my two favorite prospects for Boston. Right now we are projected to get #17 for the MEM pick. I'm really hoping that NO wins the 8 seed from Memphis that way the pick moves up to #14 and NO falls back. I think jumping NO and ORL in this case should be able to get us Kira Lewis. I think he could be there even if we stay at #17 but I'd like to move up a bit.
How high do people think Boston could get for #26, #30, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder? Am I way off thinking that can be consolidated down to a pick in the range for Patrick Williams? I'm thinking it would be #26, #30 for a pick in the early 20s and then that pick, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder for a mid teens pick to get Pat Williams.
Am I way off in value? I've seen some people put Williams at #11 to SA but I've also seen a lot of mocks with him going to us at #17. So it seems realistic that a mid teens pick could land him. Am I realistic with #26/#30/Grant Williams/2021 1st getting us in that range?
where does Kira fit in with Boston with Kemba, Smart, Brown, Langford, Edwards and Waters already on the roster?
i think Boston takes Poku if he's there at 17 for sure
hugepatsfan wrote:yahboi617 wrote:hugepatsfan wrote:Where do people see Kira Lewis and Patrick Williams going? Those are my two favorite prospects for Boston. Right now we are projected to get #17 for the MEM pick. I'm really hoping that NO wins the 8 seed from Memphis that way the pick moves up to #14 and NO falls back. I think jumping NO and ORL in this case should be able to get us Kira Lewis. I think he could be there even if we stay at #17 but I'd like to move up a bit.
How high do people think Boston could get for #26, #30, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder? Am I way off thinking that can be consolidated down to a pick in the range for Patrick Williams? I'm thinking it would be #26, #30 for a pick in the early 20s and then that pick, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder for a mid teens pick to get Pat Williams.
Am I way off in value? I've seen some people put Williams at #11 to SA but I've also seen a lot of mocks with him going to us at #17. So it seems realistic that a mid teens pick could land him. Am I realistic with #26/#30/Grant Williams/2021 1st getting us in that range?
I'm with you on Kira lewis, pat williams is a lot like vassel but bigger but my guy is Sadiq bey for the celts. Less of an athlete but a great shooter and defensively sound while not a stopper. Trading 26, 30 and 2021 1st should get you into late lottery or at least high enough to double dip. I would hate to see grant get traded (an I don't think he will) because of his great defense and shooting post 0/23 were he shot 35%. If we needed to add a player I think Romeo or rob would get the job done
I like Grant Williams too. I thought he played really well on defense in a variety of assignments. His overall offense was trash but he has that 0-21 start from 3 which seemed so uncharacteristically bad. Shot 35% from 3 the rest of the way which is more in line with what the college projections were, so I'm inclined to think that will be more what he is going forward like you said. With his passing/feel for the game he reminds me of the San Antonio Spurs late career version of Boris Diaw. That and his strong multi position defense is a nice bench player.
I think Pat Williams is a PF, not a SF though. So that created a bit of a log jam with Grant. Because I'm assuming Hayward is back and indications are they want to extend him (though we'll see how COVID the financials of that). So that means you have the Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum starting group and if both P and G Williams are best at the 4, it's crowded. So that's why I was willing to include him. Because as much as I do like him, I see a limited ceiling.
I'm not very high on Bey, especially vs P Williams. I think Bey struggles to do anything but shoot. I think he's too much of a tweener on defense - not quick enough for 3s, not strong enough for 4s. I don't think he attacks closeouts the way Pat Williams does and Williams also has more handles IMO. I just don't see the upside to move up for with Bey and give up multiple players/picks. Wouldn't hate him at #17 but I wouldn't be trying to move up for him if we get my dream pick of Kira Lewis the way I would with Pat Williams.
Langford I think we took ahead of Grant for a reason. I really liked the defense he showed when he played and then on offense I think the game projects. It's tough because he was always a pure on ball guy so they're trying to get him to adjust to being more off ball. But I think once he gets those nuances down he'll be a nice bench scorer on the wing for us. It takes time to adjust, but guys can more easily learn to playing off the ball than on. And then they have those on ball skills to fall back on when plays break down.
R. Williams fits more of a positional need for us than G Williams, especially in this scenario where we're moving up for P Williams like I had. I also think the extra year on G's contract made him more valuable to another team in this trade scenario so it worked out on that end too.
clyde21 wrote:Romeo is a combo guard not really a 3 in any capacity, maybe here and there depending on match ups but that's it
yahboi617 wrote:hugepatsfan wrote:yahboi617 wrote:I'm with you on Kira lewis, pat williams is a lot like vassel but bigger but my guy is Sadiq bey for the celts. Less of an athlete but a great shooter and defensively sound while not a stopper. Trading 26, 30 and 2021 1st should get you into late lottery or at least high enough to double dip. I would hate to see grant get traded (an I don't think he will) because of his great defense and shooting post 0/23 were he shot 35%. If we needed to add a player I think Romeo or rob would get the job done
I like Grant Williams too. I thought he played really well on defense in a variety of assignments. His overall offense was trash but he has that 0-21 start from 3 which seemed so uncharacteristically bad. Shot 35% from 3 the rest of the way which is more in line with what the college projections were, so I'm inclined to think that will be more what he is going forward like you said. With his passing/feel for the game he reminds me of the San Antonio Spurs late career version of Boris Diaw. That and his strong multi position defense is a nice bench player.
I think Pat Williams is a PF, not a SF though. So that created a bit of a log jam with Grant. Because I'm assuming Hayward is back and indications are they want to extend him (though we'll see how COVID the financials of that). So that means you have the Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum starting group and if both P and G Williams are best at the 4, it's crowded. So that's why I was willing to include him. Because as much as I do like him, I see a limited ceiling.
I'm not very high on Bey, especially vs P Williams. I think Bey struggles to do anything but shoot. I think he's too much of a tweener on defense - not quick enough for 3s, not strong enough for 4s. I don't think he attacks closeouts the way Pat Williams does and Williams also has more handles IMO. I just don't see the upside to move up for with Bey and give up multiple players/picks. Wouldn't hate him at #17 but I wouldn't be trying to move up for him if we get my dream pick of Kira Lewis the way I would with Pat Williams.
Langford I think we took ahead of Grant for a reason. I really liked the defense he showed when he played and then on offense I think the game projects. It's tough because he was always a pure on ball guy so they're trying to get him to adjust to being more off ball. But I think once he gets those nuances down he'll be a nice bench scorer on the wing for us. It takes time to adjust, but guys can more easily learn to playing off the ball than on. And then they have those on ball skills to fall back on when plays break down.
R. Williams fits more of a positional need for us than G Williams, especially in this scenario where we're moving up for P Williams like I had. I also think the extra year on G's contract made him more valuable to another team in this trade scenario so it worked out on that end too.
I think Saddiq is a guy to guard 1-3 rather than 3-4, he isn't quick enough to be a shutdown guy but he is long enough to contest and make things difficult. We'll have to see if the Grizzlies make the playoffs or not because if they don't then there would be little stopping us from getting Kira and we could trade up for a SF if need be. I like langfords defense and it was suprising to see it because he was lackadaisical on that end in highschool and college but his offense worries me. He wasn't a good 3pt shooter in highschool, from what I could find he was barely over 30% in league play or in nike camps. Injuries to his thumb limited him in college and his skillset is onball like you said. I think his potential is still high, but his role on the celtics won't ever let him fulfill it. He and a1st rnd pick plus a second would get us someone like ORL or POR to double dip and we wouldn't have to give up either williams that we already have. I think at this point in the draft we are looking for role players rather than starters of the future and Bey projects to be a nba 3&D guy from the jump, which is what we need. He shoots well and we had the 29th ranked scoring bench in the league so we need guys who can hit shots off the bench. P wil is a better defensive player but he'll take some time to develop his shot, but his FT % is really encouraging. Gordon will determine a lot of this though because he will look for a multi-year extension and if he wants more than 20mil/year than I think we'll pass. If that happens it won't free up that much cap space and Bertans isn't going to push over the hump for a championship. I'd love if Gordon opts in or we can do a S%T because we need a true PF and G or P wil aren't ready for championship starter yet. It'll be interesting we gotta get to lottery order first before we really know what to expect
hugepatsfan wrote:yahboi617 wrote:hugepatsfan wrote:
I like Grant Williams too. I thought he played really well on defense in a variety of assignments. His overall offense was trash but he has that 0-21 start from 3 which seemed so uncharacteristically bad. Shot 35% from 3 the rest of the way which is more in line with what the college projections were, so I'm inclined to think that will be more what he is going forward like you said. With his passing/feel for the game he reminds me of the San Antonio Spurs late career version of Boris Diaw. That and his strong multi position defense is a nice bench player.
I think Pat Williams is a PF, not a SF though. So that created a bit of a log jam with Grant. Because I'm assuming Hayward is back and indications are they want to extend him (though we'll see how COVID the financials of that). So that means you have the Kemba/Brown/Hayward/Tatum starting group and if both P and G Williams are best at the 4, it's crowded. So that's why I was willing to include him. Because as much as I do like him, I see a limited ceiling.
I'm not very high on Bey, especially vs P Williams. I think Bey struggles to do anything but shoot. I think he's too much of a tweener on defense - not quick enough for 3s, not strong enough for 4s. I don't think he attacks closeouts the way Pat Williams does and Williams also has more handles IMO. I just don't see the upside to move up for with Bey and give up multiple players/picks. Wouldn't hate him at #17 but I wouldn't be trying to move up for him if we get my dream pick of Kira Lewis the way I would with Pat Williams.
Langford I think we took ahead of Grant for a reason. I really liked the defense he showed when he played and then on offense I think the game projects. It's tough because he was always a pure on ball guy so they're trying to get him to adjust to being more off ball. But I think once he gets those nuances down he'll be a nice bench scorer on the wing for us. It takes time to adjust, but guys can more easily learn to playing off the ball than on. And then they have those on ball skills to fall back on when plays break down.
R. Williams fits more of a positional need for us than G Williams, especially in this scenario where we're moving up for P Williams like I had. I also think the extra year on G's contract made him more valuable to another team in this trade scenario so it worked out on that end too.
I think Saddiq is a guy to guard 1-3 rather than 3-4, he isn't quick enough to be a shutdown guy but he is long enough to contest and make things difficult. We'll have to see if the Grizzlies make the playoffs or not because if they don't then there would be little stopping us from getting Kira and we could trade up for a SF if need be. I like langfords defense and it was suprising to see it because he was lackadaisical on that end in highschool and college but his offense worries me. He wasn't a good 3pt shooter in highschool, from what I could find he was barely over 30% in league play or in nike camps. Injuries to his thumb limited him in college and his skillset is onball like you said. I think his potential is still high, but his role on the celtics won't ever let him fulfill it. He and a1st rnd pick plus a second would get us someone like ORL or POR to double dip and we wouldn't have to give up either williams that we already have. I think at this point in the draft we are looking for role players rather than starters of the future and Bey projects to be a nba 3&D guy from the jump, which is what we need. He shoots well and we had the 29th ranked scoring bench in the league so we need guys who can hit shots off the bench. P wil is a better defensive player but he'll take some time to develop his shot, but his FT % is really encouraging. Gordon will determine a lot of this though because he will look for a multi-year extension and if he wants more than 20mil/year than I think we'll pass. If that happens it won't free up that much cap space and Bertans isn't going to push over the hump for a championship. I'd love if Gordon opts in or we can do a S%T because we need a true PF and G or P wil aren't ready for championship starter yet. It'll be interesting we gotta get to lottery order first before we really know what to expect
Kind of piggy backing off of my last post, I don't think SF is really the need. If you just list our second unit of Wanamaker/Smart/Ojeleye/Grant/Kanter or RWilliams then yeah, Ojeleye at SF is a weak spot. But the reality is that with how rotations line up you're usually going to have one of Brown/Hayward/Tatum out there at a time. People post the "second unit" on paper but I'm a believer in staggered minutes for the starters over a true second unit like that. So with Brown/Hayward/Tatum all playing staggered minutes I don't think we have any sort of hole at SF. I'm totally fine having a 2 like Langford for shot creation or a 4 like Patrick Williams "listed" as my second nit SF because reality is they won't hardly ever play there due to Brown/Hayward/Tatum and even Smart on the team.
I love the Brown/Hayward/Tatum trio at the 2/3/4 don't get me wrong. It's been amazing on both ends of the court for us really this year because Brown's a great defender on ball and Tatum has made huge, underrated strides as an off ball defender that get overshadowed by this offense. Hayward doesn't have jump out of the gym athleticism so people assume he can't defend but he's great in team defense and can handle a diversity of matchups. So it works on that end to go with the offense where obviously more versatile players helps. I'd still like to have the option of a more rugged 4 though. The same way Kira Lewis checks all the boxes for our scheme at PG, I think Patrick Williams does at PF. He brings the small ball elements while also the rugged defense too. I think he can shoot the ball well enough but also attack closeouts and handle/pass within the offense (not saying he's a point forward but good enough within the offense). Bey to me is purely 3&D without he ruggedness to defend a lot of 4s but without the quickness to be elite on the perimeter as you noted. I think that brings you the same matchup issues we do run into in spurts with having to play Brown/Hayward/Tatum together if he's in there for one of them. It's a fine pairing on paper with Grant Williams at the 4 on the "second unit" but I go back to my point of how much do we really want that pairing vs a starter playign with one of them.
I know you say to worry about role players and not future starters, but I disagree. Kemba/Hayward aren't going to be here forever. Kemba's got 3 years left on his deal and I'm against keeping Hayward for beyond that timeframe. By the end of the rookie contracts, the players we draft this year will outlast them if that's the case. They'll still be on the last year of their rookie deals at that point. I can totally envision a scenario 3 years from now that Lewis and Pat Williams have been bench players but now one or both of them are stepping into the starting lineup for Walker and/or Hayward, depending on what we do with the cap space we'd have. I have a harder time seeing Bey in that because I'm just not high on his upside. I always like to draft for higher long term potential because ideally anyone you draft outlasts your immediate needs and those are the guys who hold more value in trades too.
OGLife wrote:Can anyone else see the Wiseman - Bamba comparison?