Moderators: j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:robillionaire wrote:
Yep.
we can't even get half the people here to root for losses
half I think its 75-80% would want to build properly. I can only think of a few posters who are worried about winning right now.
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
and there in lies the disconnect with the fan base and the ownership/front office for years and years. No true knicks fans cares about breaking a playoff drought. Who gives a flying f*ck about that. The goal should be building a sustainable winner. That is the only goal there should be. If that means another year or two of sucking so be it. No one cares about no damn "playoff draught" especially if it costs us long term success.
the problem is that really isn't true. there's probably a larger percentage of fans who worry about wins and losses than getting the best draft pick possible. only the super obsessed junkies like us on here are thinking about the team as if we are the actual gm of it.
so you think there is a larger portion of knicks fans that would be ok with trading every 1st round pick we own and can trade for a guaranteed playoff spot?
god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:
the problem is that really isn't true. there's probably a larger percentage of fans who worry about wins and losses than getting the best draft pick possible. only the super obsessed junkies like us on here are thinking about the team as if we are the actual gm of it.
so you think there is a larger portion of knicks fans that would be ok with trading every 1st round pick we own and can trade for a guaranteed playoff spot?
probably. there's more causal fans than there are avid ones. even on this board which is a place for obsessive fans, the traffic here will probably more than double if we were in the playoffs. without seeing the stats, i'm sure it was like that in the past when we were.
Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:
we can't even get half the people here to root for losses
half I think its 75-80% would want to build properly. I can only think of a few posters who are worried about winning right now.
The only person who matters is Dolan and he def cares about being competitive and winning. I think a lot of it is him putting the pressure on to win and at least remain competitive while they retool.
robillionaire wrote:knickstape4ever wrote:god shammgod wrote:
the problem is that really isn't true. there's probably a larger percentage of fans who worry about wins and losses than getting the best draft pick possible. only the super obsessed junkies like us on here are thinking about the team as if we are the actual gm of it.
Idk, I think I agree with mp on this one; it's the casual fans who want to end the playoff drought immediately; to me it seems that hardcore fans want to build properly
Yeah but that's the point. Casual fans make up the majority of the fanbase. Psychopaths like us who post here all summer analyzing everybody in the draft for no reason are the minority
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
so you think there is a larger portion of knicks fans that would be ok with trading every 1st round pick we own and can trade for a guaranteed playoff spot?
probably. there's more causal fans than there are avid ones. even on this board which is a place for obsessive fans, the traffic here will probably more than double if we were in the playoffs. without seeing the stats, i'm sure it was like that in the past when we were.
we have 100+ pages of game threads when we are a 20 win team...how much more activity do yo want
mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
half I think its 75-80% would want to build properly. I can only think of a few posters who are worried about winning right now.
The only person who matters is Dolan and he def cares about being competitive and winning. I think a lot of it is him putting the pressure on to win and at least remain competitive while they retool.
I ultimately think its Dolan as well. This idea that knicks fans are banging down the door and asking us to win right away simply isn't true. The garden is always full the fans just want a team built the right way. What fans can't stand and have little patience for is no plan and no results. For example if they spent money last year and built a competitive team I'm sure a lot of people would have been ok with it.
The problem is the built a team of mercenaries that weren't even good and it showed how awful they were at roster building.
I want to tank but if the knicks sign Bertans or Joe Harris to a long term deal I really wont complain because at least they are trying to play modern day basketball even if I disagree with signing role players.
god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:
probably. there's more causal fans than there are avid ones. even on this board which is a place for obsessive fans, the traffic here will probably more than double if we were in the playoffs. without seeing the stats, i'm sure it was like that in the past when we were.
we have 100+ pages of game threads when we are a 20 win team...how much more activity do yo want
analyze the traffic from when melo was here and we were in the playoffs. look at the tv ratings then and now.
Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:
The only person who matters is Dolan and he def cares about being competitive and winning. I think a lot of it is him putting the pressure on to win and at least remain competitive while they retool.
I ultimately think its Dolan as well. This idea that knicks fans are banging down the door and asking us to win right away simply isn't true. The garden is always full the fans just want a team built the right way. What fans can't stand and have little patience for is no plan and no results. For example if they spent money last year and built a competitive team I'm sure a lot of people would have been ok with it.
The problem is the built a team of mercenaries that weren't even good and it showed how awful they were at roster building.
I want to tank but if the knicks sign Bertans or Joe Harris to a long term deal I really wont complain because at least they are trying to play modern day basketball even if I disagree with signing role players.
You can tell Dolan really hates sitting at the garden while the Knicks are getting embarrassed/booed off the floor. I think a lot of it is Dolan trying to please the fans at the game, at least wanting put on a good show. Overall, he is just so out of touch with fans and doesnt really understand.
Maybe having no fans will help him remain a little more patient. Can't imagine we will have fans anytime soon, if we can even get a season in next year. It might be the perfect year to tank, especially with what looks like a great draft class.
god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:
probably. there's more causal fans than there are avid ones. even on this board which is a place for obsessive fans, the traffic here will probably more than double if we were in the playoffs. without seeing the stats, i'm sure it was like that in the past when we were.
we have 100+ pages of game threads when we are a 20 win team...how much more activity do yo want
analyze the traffic from when melo was here and we were in the playoffs. look at the tv ratings then and now.
Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:
The only person who matters is Dolan and he def cares about being competitive and winning. I think a lot of it is him putting the pressure on to win and at least remain competitive while they retool.
I ultimately think its Dolan as well. This idea that knicks fans are banging down the door and asking us to win right away simply isn't true. The garden is always full the fans just want a team built the right way. What fans can't stand and have little patience for is no plan and no results. For example if they spent money last year and built a competitive team I'm sure a lot of people would have been ok with it.
The problem is the built a team of mercenaries that weren't even good and it showed how awful they were at roster building.
I want to tank but if the knicks sign Bertans or Joe Harris to a long term deal I really wont complain because at least they are trying to play modern day basketball even if I disagree with signing role players.
You can tell Dolan really hates sitting at the garden while the Knicks are getting embarrassed/booed off the floor. I think a lot of it is Dolan trying to please the fans at the game, at least wanting put on a good show. Overall, he is just so out of touch with fans and doesnt really understand.
Maybe having no fans will help him remain a little more patient. Can't imagine we will have fans anytime soon, if we can even get a season in next year. It might be the perfect year to tank, especially with what looks like a great draft class.
god shammgod wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
I ultimately think its Dolan as well. This idea that knicks fans are banging down the door and asking us to win right away simply isn't true. The garden is always full the fans just want a team built the right way. What fans can't stand and have little patience for is no plan and no results. For example if they spent money last year and built a competitive team I'm sure a lot of people would have been ok with it.
The problem is the built a team of mercenaries that weren't even good and it showed how awful they were at roster building.
I want to tank but if the knicks sign Bertans or Joe Harris to a long term deal I really wont complain because at least they are trying to play modern day basketball even if I disagree with signing role players.
You can tell Dolan really hates sitting at the garden while the Knicks are getting embarrassed/booed off the floor. I think a lot of it is Dolan trying to please the fans at the game, at least wanting put on a good show. Overall, he is just so out of touch with fans and doesnt really understand.
Maybe having no fans will help him remain a little more patient. Can't imagine we will have fans anytime soon, if we can even get a season in next year. It might be the perfect year to tank, especially with what looks like a great draft class.
that absolutely happens. if he thought, the fans really want me to let the team pile up the losses and get a good draft pick, he'd do it. at least for awhile. but the fans start booing mercilessly when the team loses before we even get to christmas. he hears them live complaining about wins & losses and calling him a piece of sh*t. he thinks he needs wins to make that stop. which he does, even if it's not best for the long term interests of the team.
knickstape4ever wrote:god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
we have 100+ pages of game threads when we are a 20 win team...how much more activity do yo want
analyze the traffic from when melo was here and we were in the playoffs. look at the tv ratings then and now.
I think the disconnect is how we define fans. IMO those aren't real fans, but rather fans when its convenient for them. How many of those fans are watching most Knicks games?
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:
You can tell Dolan really hates sitting at the garden while the Knicks are getting embarrassed/booed off the floor. I think a lot of it is Dolan trying to please the fans at the game, at least wanting put on a good show. Overall, he is just so out of touch with fans and doesnt really understand.
Maybe having no fans will help him remain a little more patient. Can't imagine we will have fans anytime soon, if we can even get a season in next year. It might be the perfect year to tank, especially with what looks like a great draft class.
that absolutely happens. if he thought, the fans really want me to let the team pile up the losses and get a good draft pick, he'd do it. at least for awhile. but the fans start booing mercilessly when the team loses before we even get to christmas. he hears them live complaining about wins & losses and calling him a piece of sh*t. he thinks he needs wins to make that stop. which he does, even if it's not best for the long term interests of the team.
when have we played young guy mostly for an entire season?
Fans boo because the product sucks and this team has had no direction in 20 years.
Its not because we aren't good. Fans aren't stupid...a lot of times booing is frustration because we sucked and had no draft picks. Now the booing is we suck and have to see guys like Randle/Portis/Ellingotn/Payton playing who have zero chance to be long term options for the knicks.
If they came out and said we are developing the young guys and show patience...there wasn't much booing during FIz first year because fans set there expectations...there was a lot more booing this year because of the mercenaries signed and then the results piled on.
The fans just want effort...and direction.
god shammgod wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
I ultimately think its Dolan as well. This idea that knicks fans are banging down the door and asking us to win right away simply isn't true. The garden is always full the fans just want a team built the right way. What fans can't stand and have little patience for is no plan and no results. For example if they spent money last year and built a competitive team I'm sure a lot of people would have been ok with it.
The problem is the built a team of mercenaries that weren't even good and it showed how awful they were at roster building.
I want to tank but if the knicks sign Bertans or Joe Harris to a long term deal I really wont complain because at least they are trying to play modern day basketball even if I disagree with signing role players.
You can tell Dolan really hates sitting at the garden while the Knicks are getting embarrassed/booed off the floor. I think a lot of it is Dolan trying to please the fans at the game, at least wanting put on a good show. Overall, he is just so out of touch with fans and doesnt really understand.
Maybe having no fans will help him remain a little more patient. Can't imagine we will have fans anytime soon, if we can even get a season in next year. It might be the perfect year to tank, especially with what looks like a great draft class.
that absolutely happens. if he thought, the fans really want me to let the team pile up the losses and get a good draft pick, he'd do it. at least for awhile. but the fans start booing mercilessly when the team loses before we even get to christmas. he hears them live complaining about wins & losses and calling him a piece of sh*t. he thinks he needs wins to make that stop. which he does, even if it's not best for the long term interests of the team.
knickstape4ever wrote:god shammgod wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:
You can tell Dolan really hates sitting at the garden while the Knicks are getting embarrassed/booed off the floor. I think a lot of it is Dolan trying to please the fans at the game, at least wanting put on a good show. Overall, he is just so out of touch with fans and doesnt really understand.
Maybe having no fans will help him remain a little more patient. Can't imagine we will have fans anytime soon, if we can even get a season in next year. It might be the perfect year to tank, especially with what looks like a great draft class.
that absolutely happens. if he thought, the fans really want me to let the team pile up the losses and get a good draft pick, he'd do it. at least for awhile. but the fans start booing mercilessly when the team loses before we even get to christmas. he hears them live complaining about wins & losses and calling him a piece of sh*t. he thinks he needs wins to make that stop. which he does, even if it's not best for the long term interests of the team.
creating a vicious cycle: "fans" complain team isn't good enough, team goes for quick fix, quick fix doesn't work causing fans to complain again
I put fans in quotes b/c it's the casual Garden fans and fans who boo Dolan just cuz he's kinda a POS, rather than direction of team
god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:
that absolutely happens. if he thought, the fans really want me to let the team pile up the losses and get a good draft pick, he'd do it. at least for awhile. but the fans start booing mercilessly when the team loses before we even get to christmas. he hears them live complaining about wins & losses and calling him a piece of sh*t. he thinks he needs wins to make that stop. which he does, even if it's not best for the long term interests of the team.
when have we played young guy mostly for an entire season?
Fans boo because the product sucks and this team has had no direction in 20 years.
Its not because we aren't good. Fans aren't stupid...a lot of times booing is frustration because we sucked and had no draft picks. Now the booing is we suck and have to see guys like Randle/Portis/Ellingotn/Payton playing who have zero chance to be long term options for the knicks.
If they came out and said we are developing the young guys and show patience...there wasn't much booing during FIz first year because fans set there expectations...there was a lot more booing this year because of the mercenaries signed and then the results piled on.
The fans just want effort...and direction.
have you ever seen fans boo when the knicks are winning on the court ? they'll root for julius randle or bobby portis or whoever as long as they're beating the other team. fans who attend a game want to see their team win. it's kind of the whole point.
god shammgod wrote:knickstape4ever wrote:god shammgod wrote:
analyze the traffic from when melo was here and we were in the playoffs. look at the tv ratings then and now.
I think the disconnect is how we define fans. IMO those aren't real fans, but rather fans when its convenient for them. How many of those fans are watching most Knicks games?
how we define fans isn't important to the business of running the knicks. the obsessives will watch no matter what. the organization doesn't need to cater to them. it's the casuals who they need to convince to turn the knick game on. well, how do they do that ? by winning more. by having a star that will attract them to watch. by being in the playoffs.
mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
when have we played young guy mostly for an entire season?
Fans boo because the product sucks and this team has had no direction in 20 years.
Its not because we aren't good. Fans aren't stupid...a lot of times booing is frustration because we sucked and had no draft picks. Now the booing is we suck and have to see guys like Randle/Portis/Ellingotn/Payton playing who have zero chance to be long term options for the knicks.
If they came out and said we are developing the young guys and show patience...there wasn't much booing during FIz first year because fans set there expectations...there was a lot more booing this year because of the mercenaries signed and then the results piled on.
The fans just want effort...and direction.
have you ever seen fans boo when the knicks are winning on the court ? they'll root for julius randle or bobby portis or whoever as long as they're beating the other team. fans who attend a game want to see their team win. it's kind of the whole point.
the fans attending games are majority tourist...the tickets are way too expensive for casual and even die hard fans to get too consistently. Its more of a tourist attracting and they want to have the experience of a home team winning. They cheered and chanted for Kanter to play...who never helped winning. The fans that go to game just want to be part of an experience...
robillionaire wrote:mpharris36 wrote:god shammgod wrote:
have you ever seen fans boo when the knicks are winning on the court ? they'll root for julius randle or bobby portis or whoever as long as they're beating the other team. fans who attend a game want to see their team win. it's kind of the whole point.
the fans attending games are majority tourist...the tickets are way too expensive for casual and even die hard fans to get too consistently. Its more of a tourist attracting and they want to have the experience of a home team winning. They cheered and chanted for Kanter to play...who never helped winning. The fans that go to game just want to be part of an experience...
I usually go to 2 or 3 games a year. I'd probably go to more if the team didn't suck. I'll root for a tank but I won't pay to watch one.