Image ImageImage Image

OT: COVID-19 thread #3

Moderators: HomoSapien, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man

moorhosj
Junior
Posts: 473
And1: 386
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
 

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#321 » by moorhosj » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:24 pm

TheStig wrote:I'm confident the Democrats would rather have Trump than Bernie lol

As much as you try to make this reality, it isn't. Biden has included Sanders deeply in his platform building and has moved to the left on multiple issues (social justice and the environment to name two).

Biden-Bernie Sanders Unity Task Forces release DNC platform recommendations.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-bernie-sanders-unity-task-forces-release-dnc-platform-recommendations/ar-BB16v3Iw

The 110-page document lays out policy recommendations for the former vice president and includes language for the Democratic platform ahead of the Democratic Convention in Milwaukee next month.

"I commend the Task Forces for their service and helping build a bold, transformative platform for our party and for our country. And I am deeply grateful to Senator Sanders for working together to unite our party, and​ ​deliver real, lasting change for generations to come," Biden wrote​ in a statement announcing the recommendations.

The Biden-Sanders climate-change policy pact: 8 key features
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/the-biden-sanders-climate-change-policy-pact-8-key-features/ar-BB16B6pW
The climate goals — including a call to eliminate carbon emissions from power plants by 2035 and modernizing the electric grid to help achieve this — were part of the presumptive Democratic nominee’s collaboration with former contender Sen. Bernie Sanders and his more progressive platform.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 44,062
And1: 13,008
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#322 » by dice » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:54 pm

starting tomorrow, trump has ordered hospitals to skip the CDC and send patient info to private contractor in DC
God help Ukraine
God help those fleeing misery to come here
God help the Middle East
God help the climate
God help US health care
TheStig
RealGM
Posts: 14,795
And1: 3,973
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Location: Get rid of GarPaxDorf

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#323 » by TheStig » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:05 pm

moorhosj wrote:
TheStig wrote:I'm confident the Democrats would rather have Trump than Bernie lol

As much as you try to make this reality, it isn't. Biden has included Sanders deeply in his platform building and has moved to the left on multiple issues (social justice and the environment to name two).

Biden-Bernie Sanders Unity Task Forces release DNC platform recommendations.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-bernie-sanders-unity-task-forces-release-dnc-platform-recommendations/ar-BB16v3Iw

The 110-page document lays out policy recommendations for the former vice president and includes language for the Democratic platform ahead of the Democratic Convention in Milwaukee next month.

"I commend the Task Forces for their service and helping build a bold, transformative platform for our party and for our country. And I am deeply grateful to Senator Sanders for working together to unite our party, and​ ​deliver real, lasting change for generations to come," Biden wrote​ in a statement announcing the recommendations.

The Biden-Sanders climate-change policy pact: 8 key features
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/the-biden-sanders-climate-change-policy-pact-8-key-features/ar-BB16B6pW
The climate goals — including a call to eliminate carbon emissions from power plants by 2035 and modernizing the electric grid to help achieve this — were part of the presumptive Democratic nominee’s collaboration with former contender Sen. Bernie Sanders and his more progressive platform.

Good, they let Bernie right a report, that will go into a drawer, to never be seen again lol.

Hillary actually did adopt and make specific concessions. Not just give him a report to do lol.
moorhosj
Junior
Posts: 473
And1: 386
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
 

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#324 » by moorhosj » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:28 am

TheStig wrote:Good, they let Bernie right a report, that will go into a drawer, to never be seen again lol.

Hillary actually did adopt and make specific concessions. Not just give him a report to do lol.


Literally announced today: Biden Outlines $2 Trillion Climate Plan

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/890814007/biden-outlines-2-trillion-climate-plan
User avatar
ImSlower
Head Coach
Posts: 6,315
And1: 7,592
Joined: Jan 06, 2011
Location: STL-ish
   

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#325 » by ImSlower » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:02 am

moorhosj wrote:
TheStig wrote:Good, they let Bernie right a report, that will go into a drawer, to never be seen again lol.

Hillary actually did adopt and make specific concessions. Not just give him a report to do lol.


Literally announced today: Biden Outlines $2 Trillion Climate Plan

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/890814007/biden-outlines-2-trillion-climate-plan


Hey, thanks for that link. Gosh, it felt weird feeling some legitimate hope and optimism for a moment there. If Biden is able to use Fed dollars to fund massive public works to create jobs and improve the future of our country, it would become his legacy.

I lean heavily left, but am not a big fan of Biden. That said, he's our man, now, and I am happy to see him push for long-lasting, positive change for his country. I suppose that Repubs will scoff at such a huge price tag, but the Federal Government is going to have to do some extraordinary things to revert the downward slope I think both sides of the aisle agree we are on.
TheStig
RealGM
Posts: 14,795
And1: 3,973
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Location: Get rid of GarPaxDorf

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#326 » by TheStig » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:07 am

moorhosj wrote:
TheStig wrote:Good, they let Bernie right a report, that will go into a drawer, to never be seen again lol.

Hillary actually did adopt and make specific concessions. Not just give him a report to do lol.


Literally announced today: Biden Outlines $2 Trillion Climate Plan

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/890814007/biden-outlines-2-trillion-climate-plan

I don't think it'll happen and it's one of many points but it's a nice first step.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 1,907
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#327 » by PlayerUp » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:49 am

Image
User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 1,907
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#328 » by PlayerUp » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:59 am

TheStig wrote:
moorhosj wrote:
TheStig wrote:Good, they let Bernie right a report, that will go into a drawer, to never be seen again lol.

Hillary actually did adopt and make specific concessions. Not just give him a report to do lol.


Literally announced today: Biden Outlines $2 Trillion Climate Plan

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/890814007/biden-outlines-2-trillion-climate-plan

I don't think it'll happen and it's one of many points but it's a nice first step.


https://joebiden.com/clean-energy/

Quite a proposal. These trillion dollar proposals aren't going to get passed but it's a decent proposal. He'll need to trim it down heavily to get this to pass but I agree it's a nice starting point into a deal getting passed which I do think will happen sometime within 2021-2029. I see alot of negative outcomes with this proposal as well but if congress actually works with him to clean this up it's possible we could see something eventually passed.

If we're going to fix climate change, it has to happen at a global level though. China still produces 28% of the worlds emissions, double what the US produces. Need to push forward with the one trillion trees initiative which is a more realistic proposal that gets the world involved and one that should be easy for the nations to agree upon and actually move forward with.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 1,907
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#329 » by PlayerUp » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:02 am

User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 1,907
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#330 » by PlayerUp » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:04 am

dice wrote:trump retweet:

Read on Twitter


game show hosts gotta stick together


It's true. Why I don't support either party. Empty promises, deceptive, all about power/votes. Rarely do things get passed.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 1,907
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#331 » by PlayerUp » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:07 am

dice wrote:which is incredible given that he's 25 points underwater on job approval. he's deeply unpopular, but the money rolls in come election time and he lives to fight another 6 years


He's a lock. That said McConnell is 78 so he is bound to eventually retire here.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 1,907
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#332 » by PlayerUp » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:11 am

TheStig wrote:I just found it odd she had odds.


Image

Image

The polling system is broken.

Also don't forget Romney vs Obama was pretty even in the polling but Obama crushed Romney during the actual election. Why polls are meaningless now in presidential elections as the actual election is determined by the moderates, silent majority and the casual voters.
moorhosj
Junior
Posts: 473
And1: 386
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
 

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#333 » by moorhosj » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:25 pm

PlayerUp wrote:Quite a proposal. These trillion dollar proposals aren't going to get passed but it's a decent proposal. He'll need to trim it down heavily to get this to pass but I agree it's a nice starting point into a deal getting passed which I do think will happen sometime within 2021-2029. I see alot of negative outcomes with this proposal as well but if congress actually works with him to clean this up it's possible we could see something eventually passed.


I love how a trillion dollars suddenly makes something un-passable. Reminder, in 2017 we had a $2.0 trillion tax reform which primarily benefited the wealthy. Then, we passed the CARES Act this March for another $2.2 trillion. There have been 2 other COVID relief packages totaling $800 billion, or so. Congress is currently working on a 4th COVID package of around $1 trillion. Certainly seems like we can pass trillion dollar laws when we want. In the middle of a large recession seems like the ideal time to launch an infrastructure program like this proposal.

We also haven't talked about the tax revenue plan (also heavily influenced by Bernie) that comes along with this set of proposals. Simply eliminating parts of the 2017 tax plan gives you the money to invest in this program with no budget impact.
Here are five key points in Biden's new economic plan:

1. Tax wages and capital at the same rate.
2. Increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans by limiting unequal and unproductive tax expenditures.
3. Increase corporate tax rates.
4. Increase estate taxes back to their norm.
5. Expand the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit.
https://fortune.com/2020/07/14/joe-biden-tax-plan-bernie-sanders-20200-election-campaign/
User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 1,907
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#334 » by PlayerUp » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:12 pm

moorhosj wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:Quite a proposal. These trillion dollar proposals aren't going to get passed but it's a decent proposal. He'll need to trim it down heavily to get this to pass but I agree it's a nice starting point into a deal getting passed which I do think will happen sometime within 2021-2029. I see alot of negative outcomes with this proposal as well but if congress actually works with him to clean this up it's possible we could see something eventually passed.


I love how a trillion dollars suddenly makes something un-passable. Reminder, in 2017 we had a $2.0 trillion tax reform which primarily benefited the wealthy. Then, we passed the CARES Act this March for another $2.2 trillion. There have been 2 other COVID relief packages totaling $800 billion, or so. Congress is currently working on a 4th COVID package of around $1 trillion. Certainly seems like we can pass trillion dollar laws when we want. In the middle of a large recession seems like the ideal time to launch an infrastructure program like this proposal.

We also haven't talked about the tax revenue plan (also heavily influenced by Bernie) that comes along with this set of proposals. Simply eliminating parts of the 2017 tax plan gives you the money to invest in this program with no budget impact.
Here are five key points in Biden's new economic plan:

1. Tax wages and capital at the same rate.
2. Increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans by limiting unequal and unproductive tax expenditures.
3. Increase corporate tax rates.
4. Increase estate taxes back to their norm.
5. Expand the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit.
https://fortune.com/2020/07/14/joe-biden-tax-plan-bernie-sanders-20200-election-campaign/


4th COVID package and I haven't even received a single check yet for any of them.

I don't disagree with what you're saying but the republican party is not on the same page at all with the left on climate change which is the difference in this case. It's going to be difficult to pass anything unless somehow you can meet in the middle on a climate change package. Green new deals and trillion dollar proposals don't seem likely, more empty promises. If you want something to pass, trim it down and start there. Lets get something realistic passed 1st and then start working on other proposals in the future just to get this climate change movement going. Meanwhile, restart the Paris Agreement, get the one trillion tree campaign going which has now planted 13.6 billion trees - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion_Tree_Campaign

As for Bidens economic plan, it won't be enough to cover the costs. Only way to cover the costs and stop the deficit from increasing is massively cut government spending which doesn't appear to be in the plans for either Biden or Trump.
moorhosj
Junior
Posts: 473
And1: 386
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
 

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#335 » by moorhosj » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:05 pm

PlayerUp wrote:4th COVID package and I haven't even received a single check yet for any of them.

I don't disagree with what you're saying but the republican party is not on the same page at all with the left on climate change which is the difference in this case. It's going to be difficult to pass anything unless somehow you can meet in the middle on a climate change package. Green new deals and trillion dollar proposals don't seem likely, more empty promises. If you want something to pass, trim it down and start there. Lets get something realistic passed 1st and then start working on other proposals in the future just to get this climate change movement going. Meanwhile, restart the Paris Agreement, get the one trillion tree campaign going which has now planted 13.6 billion trees - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion_Tree_Campaign

As for Bidens economic plan, it won't be enough to cover the costs. Only way to cover the costs and stop the deficit from increasing is massively cut government spending which doesn't appear to be in the plans for either Biden or Trump.


Nobody is going to cut spending, it hasn't happened in my lifetime. Deficits have consistently been higher under Republican presidents. Here's an example of why this argument can die. The Obama stimulus package that created so much anger toward over-spending and the deficit had a price tag of $787 billion ($550B in spend increase and $275B in tax reductions). Last month, the US had a $864B deficit. FOR THE MONTH. This is with a Republican President and Senate Majority. We can stop acting like deficits should stop meaningful legislation when we hand out money like candy. Tax cuts for rich people are not better for the economy than infrastructure programs.

If Biden wins and Democrats can get to 50 in the Senate (which seems possible as of July 15th), they are going to eliminate the filibuster and pass massive pieces of legislation.

As far as your other items, Biden has committed to re-entering the Paris Agreement and planting lots of trees.

From the "Unity Task Force" https://joebiden.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/UNITY-TASK-FORCE-RECOMMENDATIONS.pdf
Plant over 16 billion new native and non-invasive trees by 2050, on a combination of federal, state, local, tribal, and non-governmental lands, including urgently planting in urban neighborhoods across America, with the priority going to low-income neighborhoods and communities of color.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 1,907
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#336 » by PlayerUp » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:27 pm

moorhosj wrote:they are going to eliminate the filibuster and pass massive pieces of legislation.


They would get somethings passed but both Trump and Obama had issues getting things approved through congress over 2 years when they had full control as well. Biden will have less than 2 years before the senate would for sure flip red.

moorhosj wrote:If Biden wins and Democrats can get to 50 in the Senate (which seems possible as of July 15th), they are going to eliminate the filibuster and pass massive pieces of legislation.


Well I'm not optimistic the democrats can win the senate. They need to win at least 4 seats (they'll lose Alabama) and only 5 are really considered toss up states. Odds are not in their favor. Best states to flip are Colorado, Arizona, NC and Maine in that order. Prediction is it will go 49-51 (republicans) or 50-50 (tie).

moorhosj wrote:Nobody is going to cut spending, it hasn't happened in my lifetime. Deficits have consistently been higher under Republican presidents.


War/COVID-19 root cause. Both parties are heavy spenders.

moorhosj wrote:Here's an example of why this argument can die. The Obama stimulus package that created so much anger toward over-spending and the deficit had a price tag of $787 billion ($550B in spend increase and $275B in tax reductions). Last month, the US had a $864B deficit. FOR THE MONTH. This is with a Republican President and Senate Majority. We can stop acting like deficits should stop meaningful legislation when we hand out money like candy. Tax cuts for rich people are not better for the economy than infrastructure programs.


I'm not for any of the recently passed stimulus packages either. I am pro downsizing the federal government and want to heavily reduce the deficit. I'm pro more power to the states. I criticize Trump for increasing spending when he had the chance to decrease it in his 1st year.

I don't disagree with what you're saying but deals like this where one party isn't on the same page with the other, it will be hard to pass anything that is leaning far left. I'm just hopeful some deal gets passed that will fix infrastructure and other key issues that could really be beneficial to combating climate change.

moorhosj wrote:As far as your other items, Biden has committed to re-entering the Paris Agreement and planting lots of trees.

From the "Unity Task Force" https://joebiden.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/UNITY-TASK-FORCE-RECOMMENDATIONS.pdf
Plant over 16 billion new native and non-invasive trees by 2050, on a combination of federal, state, local, tribal, and non-governmental lands, including urgently planting in urban neighborhoods across America, with the priority going to low-income neighborhoods and communities of color.


Restoring forests damaged by fire should be a priority. It's not enough and focus should go more here imo. Republicans seem okay with supporting the one trillion tree campaign. Push forward with things you can definitely agree upon and lets actually get a deal done in 2021.
MrSparkle
RealGM
Posts: 23,344
And1: 11,166
Joined: Jul 31, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#337 » by MrSparkle » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:35 pm

I will say, even if the Democrats win an unprecedented control of the Senate (and House, and Presidency), at this point, the Judicial branch is not in their favor. Fortunately it appears Chief Roberts is trying to be a fair and unpartisan Chief Justice despite conservative leanings, but Ruth is hanging on and a 5-4 majority is already enough to nix any "radical" legislation (if Biden tries to push any progressive Warren/Bernie policies).

So unfortunately, we're in it for the long haul of the battle between protecting some strange small-group interests and becoming a better society. Ideally there is some wholistic awakening in the next 5 months on the Trump party, that their hyper-conservative and faux-Libertarian (totally faux - basically proposing the fallacy that we are a stronger nation by handicapping Federal regulations to the max, while also somehow strengthening the White House more than ever with a "hands-off" approach) ideologies make no long-term sense for any American. I guess being the COVID epicenter with Brazil is probably the first of many coming strikes. I can't imagine what will happen when the climate disasters ramp up and affect our food supply, economy and real estate more drastically. I also can't imagine what will happen if world relations deteriorate further. Amazingly Africa and Middle East, places of constant unrest and civil wars, aren't even being talked about right now, as Asia and UK, Western & Eastern EU are heating up with divisive rhetoric.

The answer simply isn't "letting states handle it themselves", contrary to what Trump, Rand Paul, DeSantis and Betsy DeVos think. This COVID situation is just a perfect flaming example of why that doesn't work in a globalized economy. But I guess we have to go on and watch denial for another 5 months, at least. Or maybe another 4+ years.

Can I have 2008 back? This future feels much more volatile and icy.
MrSparkle
RealGM
Posts: 23,344
And1: 11,166
Joined: Jul 31, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#338 » by MrSparkle » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:51 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
dice wrote:trump retweet:

Read on Twitter


game show hosts gotta stick together


It's true. Why I don't support either party. Empty promises, deceptive, all about power/votes. Rarely do things get passed.


Chuck Woolery clearly supports a side - the Trump party, given as he decided to call out every establishment that Trump seems to think is out to get him (the media, the Democrats and Doctors).

You either endorse that line of thinking, or you don't. Sorry to throw an ultimatum, but one side has an agenda to suppress the reality with un-checked executive power and money and influence, and another is grasping with the challenges of reality. Sure, they are making some mistakes along the way while dealing with an unprecedented pandemic situation with tons of push-back from the Apprentice boss, but addressing it urgently. Where do you stand?
moorhosj
Junior
Posts: 473
And1: 386
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
 

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#339 » by moorhosj » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:39 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
dice wrote:trump retweet:

Read on Twitter


game show hosts gotta stick together


It's true. Why I don't support either party. Empty promises, deceptive, all about power/votes. Rarely do things get passed.


Chuck Woolery clearly supports a side - the Trump party, given as he decided to call out every establishment that Trump seems to think is out to get him (the media, the Democrats and Doctors).

You either endorse that line of thinking, or you don't. Sorry to throw an ultimatum, but one side has an agenda to suppress the reality with un-checked executive power and money and influence, and another is grasping with the challenges of reality. Sure, they are making some mistakes along the way while dealing with an unprecedented pandemic situation with tons of push-back from the Apprentice boss, but addressing it urgently. Where do you stand?


Just to put a bow on it. Today, the administration made this authoritarian move: White House Strips CDC of Data Collection Role For COVID-19 Hospitalizations.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/15/891351706/white-house-strips-cdc-of-data-collection-role-for-covid-19-hospitalizations

The new system was set up by TeleTracking, a private company based in Pennsylvania, which was awarded the $10 million contract in a noncompetitive bid in April. Sen. Patty Murphy, D-Wash., the ranking member of the Senate health committee, wrote a letter to CDC Director Robert Redfield on June 3 asking why TeleTracking was awarded the contract on a noncompetitive basis.
Dan Z
RealGM
Posts: 18,459
And1: 9,144
Joined: Feb 19, 2002
Location: Chicago
 

Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3 

Post#340 » by Dan Z » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:09 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
dice wrote:trump retweet:

Read on Twitter


game show hosts gotta stick together


It's true. Why I don't support either party. Empty promises, deceptive, all about power/votes. Rarely do things get passed.


Chuck Woolery clearly supports a side - the Trump party, given as he decided to call out every establishment that Trump seems to think is out to get him (the media, the Democrats and Doctors).

You either endorse that line of thinking, or you don't. Sorry to throw an ultimatum, but one side has an agenda to suppress the reality with un-checked executive power and money and influence, and another is grasping with the challenges of reality. Sure, they are making some mistakes along the way while dealing with an unprecedented pandemic situation with tons of push-back from the Apprentice boss, but addressing it urgently. Where do you stand?


Read on Twitter

Return to Chicago Bulls