2020 NBA Draft II

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1281 » by doordoor123 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:47 am

clyde21 wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:Where do people see Kira Lewis and Patrick Williams going? Those are my two favorite prospects for Boston. Right now we are projected to get #17 for the MEM pick. I'm really hoping that NO wins the 8 seed from Memphis that way the pick moves up to #14 and NO falls back. I think jumping NO and ORL in this case should be able to get us Kira Lewis. I think he could be there even if we stay at #17 but I'd like to move up a bit.

How high do people think Boston could get for #26, #30, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder? Am I way off thinking that can be consolidated down to a pick in the range for Patrick Williams? I'm thinking it would be #26, #30 for a pick in the early 20s and then that pick, Grant Williams and our 2021 1st rounder for a mid teens pick to get Pat Williams.

Am I way off in value? I've seen some people put Williams at #11 to SA but I've also seen a lot of mocks with him going to us at #17. So it seems realistic that a mid teens pick could land him. Am I realistic with #26/#30/Grant Williams/2021 1st getting us in that range?


where does Kira fit in with Boston with Kemba, Smart, Brown, Langford, Edwards and Waters already on the roster?

i think Boston takes Poku if he's there at 17 for sure


If Kira is there they trade both Edwards and Waters. Kira is an elite type of athlete with great size and can become better than both Edwards and Waters. Kira not being a top 10 pick baffles me.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1282 » by getrichordie » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:39 am

clyde21 wrote:...


Jared Butler stuff.

HANDLES

Overall, Butler possesses an advanced handle package, as he's able to use a variety of dribble moves to get by his defender; often utilizes L-to-R crossovers and vice-versa to get defenders off-balance and attacks top foot. Showcases ability to also use slight hesitation dribbles and subtle fakes to shake loose but lacks elite burst to take full advantage of this. Has a very strong off-hand as he has shown ability to bring ball up court using off-hand only and also has flashed a nice in-and-out dribble as well. Shows good ability to accelerate/decelerate at right times while maintaining good control of ball when attacking basket but can force the issue at times trying to create something that's not there and plows over defenders at times, resulting in turnovers.

PASSING

Butler's passing leaves a lot to be desired, though he has shown flashes of creativity and good, but not great, vision when attacking paint where he sometimes finds the open shooter on the perimeter utilizing baseline or simple drive-and-kicks. Has flashed ability to hit a rolling big w/ pocket passes using left or right hand out of P&R action. But, often times, he attempts high risk passes and also tries to force the ball into tight windows resulting in turnovers. Needs to improve touch and accuracy. Misses a lot of easy basket opportunities due to this (I.E. big has sealed off smaller defender in paint, Butler won't attempt the pass).

SHOOTING

Flashed ability to piece together OTD 3s mainly created off of stepbacks but not proficient enough yet but potential is there; needs to improve footwork (tends to have right foot in front of left foot) and overall form (shoots in front of his face; guide hand in weird place). Can knock down C&S 3s at a high percentage and has even knocked down a few from beyond NBA 3-pt range. Form looks solid when feet is properly set. Really good at shooting C&S 3s out of corner. Too often settles for a contested shot.

Virtually non-existent mid-range game (28/91 or 30.8% on Far 2s vs. top 240). Pull-up form looks wonky here. Does not have the requisite touch for floaters at this time.

Solid finisher at the rim where he shot 60.5% on 86 attempts through 26 games vs. top 240. Not an above the rim guy (0 dunks) but shows good form on layups with right hand and while he has flashed some nice off-hand layups, he could stand to improve this area of his game. Sometimes tries to get a little too fancy by adjusting shot mid-air when he should just go straight up. Struggles with maintaining balance when going around defenders in paint and/or taking contact.

DEFENSE

Overall, Butler is a very smart team defender. Shows really good understanding of positioning off-ball and reacts to actions very quickly. Feels like he knows what is happening and where everyone is at all times. Good understanding of rotations and when to help off man and when not to for the most part (prone to cheating off a little too much at times, resulting in good looks for opposition, though doesn't happen very often) as well as when to switch and when not to. Closes out/recovers to shooters with hands up and stays down ~95% of the time. Rarely bites on ball fakes. Rarely is caught ball-watching.

When switched on to bigger guys, does a good job holding his own; can sustain multiple bumps to the chest at times and makes great use of his hands to dislodge ball when able; has really quick hands that bothers opposition and/or produces turnovers. Does struggle when switched on to stocky bigs at times but does a good job fronting and/or keeping man away from basket to survive long enough for help to arrive. Bigger, quicker, more skilled wings can also give him problems on drives as they can just finish over him. Gets stuck on bigs' screens when trying to go over/under sometimes, giving open looks to shooters.

Shows really good situational awareness and instincts for when to get aggressive and when to give room. Shows decent feel for upcoming screens when defending P&R, but still struggles navigating screens at times. This often leads to him just switching on to roller where he does a good job of cutting off passing window.

Solid P-O-A defender. Isn't easily dislodged on drives and doesn't give up a ton of space versus both similar-sized and bigger players. Shows really solid lateral quickness and has quick hips and consistently beats his man to spots and is able to stay in front of man from perimeter all the way to the restricted area where he has shown ability to jump straight up to contest shots (doesn't jump into guys). Great reflexes and very active hands. Is really quick to get a hand up to contest shots. Really makes life difficult for opposing ball-handlers.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1283 » by mademan » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:59 am

I think Terry is a decent sleeper. He's got size limitations, but he's high IQ to play well within a team defense. He wasnt given enough oppurtunity to show his playmaking, but i think he's very underrated there. His finishing % at the rim is pretty incredible for someone who's not explosive or big (61% on non-transition). In the more offensive structure in the NBA, his offensive game should shine more (though his size/lack of athleticism on defense will be exposed more)
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1284 » by HeadtopChunes » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:22 pm

Looks like Tillman might be pulling out

Read on Twitter
?s=21

That sucks, I thought he was a solid first rounder but I guess NBA teams don’t agree
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1285 » by jezzerinho » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:32 pm

mademan wrote:I think Terry is a decent sleeper. He's got size limitations, but he's high IQ to play well within a team defense. He wasnt given enough oppurtunity to show his playmaking, but i think he's very underrated there. His finishing % at the rim is pretty incredible for someone who's not explosive or big (61% on non-transition). In the more offensive structure in the NBA, his offensive game should shine more (though his size/lack of athleticism on defense will be exposed more)


He's so scrawny and so easily abused on D that he's hard to envision making it - without serious physical growth.

But his jumper is a thing of absolute beauty. I don't know what % of his made 3pt shots are perfect rainbows that kiss the net on the way through, but it feels like >90%. His touch in general is special.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1286 » by Nazrmohamed » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:38 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:Looks like Tillman might be pulling out

Read on Twitter
?s=21

That sucks, I thought he was a solid first rounder but I guess NBA teams don’t agree


Another thing to consider and I dont know if its his situation is that some guys need the workouts and 5 on 5s and so on to prove thier value and with Covid thwres gonna be alot of guys who can't use those avenues to show out. Maybe he was one of those guys and saw it coming.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1287 » by mademan » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:19 pm

Can someone explain McDaniels drop in all these mocks? Does he have attitude issues? Cause what he's working with (young, big, tall, long, defensive versatility, decent jumpshot and pretty amazing handles for his size) should make him easy lotto, no? I get that his athleticism isnt really functional on the offensive end, but his elite 3+D potential should still give him lotto looks.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1288 » by HeadtopChunes » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:55 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:Looks like Tillman might be pulling out

Read on Twitter
?s=21

That sucks, I thought he was a solid first rounder but I guess NBA teams don’t agree


Tillman appears to be disputing this rumor

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1289 » by nolang1 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:40 am

mademan wrote:Can someone explain McDaniels drop in all these mocks? Does he have attitude issues? Cause what he's working with (young, big, tall, long, defensive versatility, decent jumpshot and pretty amazing handles for his size) should make him easy lotto, no? I get that his athleticism isnt really functional on the offensive end, but his elite 3+D potential should still give him lotto looks.


The amazing handles manifested as 2.1 assists and 3.2 turnovers per game, and I’d say his defensive versatility is similarly theoretical since he’s not strong enough to bang inside and played in a zone defense all year. He definitely doesn’t have that KD or even Brandon Ingram type of length that his fans tend to assume just because he’s tall and skinny, and the players with his height and length that tend to succeed are closer to being 3-point specialists than just having a kinda decent jump shot.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1290 » by Catchall » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:00 am

His handle and body control with the ball remind me of a young DWill at times. He does need an in-between game on offense though. That's going to be key for him to develop.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1291 » by EMG518 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:56 am

mademan wrote:Can someone explain McDaniels drop in all these mocks? Does he have attitude issues? Cause what he's working with (young, big, tall, long, defensive versatility, decent jumpshot and pretty amazing handles for his size) should make him easy lotto, no? I get that his athleticism isnt really functional on the offensive end, but his elite 3+D potential should still give him lotto looks.



I think he has become underrated. I have him in the lottery at 10.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1292 » by getrichordie » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:35 am

EMG518 wrote:
mademan wrote:Can someone explain McDaniels drop in all these mocks? Does he have attitude issues? Cause what he's working with (young, big, tall, long, defensive versatility, decent jumpshot and pretty amazing handles for his size) should make him easy lotto, no? I get that his athleticism isnt really functional on the offensive end, but his elite 3+D potential should still give him lotto looks.



I think he has become underrated. I have him in the lottery at 10.


Most seem to think he does have attitude issues.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1293 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:14 am

getrichordie wrote:
clyde21 wrote:...

Jared Butler
...


Major caveat: based on highlights

Kinda looks like a less explosive Jordan Clarkson?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1294 » by mademan » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:48 pm

nolang1 wrote:
mademan wrote:Can someone explain McDaniels drop in all these mocks? Does he have attitude issues? Cause what he's working with (young, big, tall, long, defensive versatility, decent jumpshot and pretty amazing handles for his size) should make him easy lotto, no? I get that his athleticism isnt really functional on the offensive end, but his elite 3+D potential should still give him lotto looks.


The amazing handles manifested as 2.1 assists and 3.2 turnovers per game, and I’d say his defensive versatility is similarly theoretical since he’s not strong enough to bang inside and played in a zone defense all year. He definitely doesn’t have that KD or even Brandon Ingram type of length that his fans tend to assume just because he’s tall and skinny, and the players with his height and length that tend to succeed are closer to being 3-point specialists than just having a kinda decent jump shot.


Sure. He was also inefficient in college. But he's 19 and has a physical profile and skillset that is not only fairly unique, but also highly coveted. He has PF size with decent guard skills. Even if theyre not refined, i would think most teams would look at him and think they can develop him into a star. I cant see him falling out of the lotto
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1295 » by clyde21 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:31 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
clyde21 wrote:...

Jared Butler
...


Major caveat: based on highlights

Kinda looks like a less explosive Jordan Clarkson?


at the same point Butler's been a much better player than Clarkson overall
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1296 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:42 pm

clyde21 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Jared Butler
...


Major caveat: based on highlights

Kinda looks like a less explosive Jordan Clarkson?


at the same point Butler's been a much better player than Clarkson overall


So...first round pick if workouts happen?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1297 » by clyde21 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:49 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Major caveat: based on highlights

Kinda looks like a less explosive Jordan Clarkson?


at the same point Butler's been a much better player than Clarkson overall


So...first round pick if workouts happen?


for me for sure, for most people doesn't seem like it
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1298 » by getrichordie » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:01 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Major caveat: based on highlights

Kinda looks like a less explosive Jordan Clarkson?


at the same point Butler's been a much better player than Clarkson overall


So...first round pick if workouts happen?


It's possible. I think it's likely that his inability to get over screens and shaky OTD shooting costs him that FRP status. I think it's more likely he goes early-to-mid second round.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1299 » by Stillwater » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:08 pm

mademan wrote:
nolang1 wrote:
mademan wrote:Can someone explain McDaniels drop in all these mocks? Does he have attitude issues? Cause what he's working with (young, big, tall, long, defensive versatility, decent jumpshot and pretty amazing handles for his size) should make him easy lotto, no? I get that his athleticism isnt really functional on the offensive end, but his elite 3+D potential should still give him lotto looks.


The amazing handles manifested as 2.1 assists and 3.2 turnovers per game, and I’d say his defensive versatility is similarly theoretical since he’s not strong enough to bang inside and played in a zone defense all year. He definitely doesn’t have that KD or even Brandon Ingram type of length that his fans tend to assume just because he’s tall and skinny, and the players with his height and length that tend to succeed are closer to being 3-point specialists than just having a kinda decent jump shot.


Sure. He was also inefficient in college. But he's 19 and has a physical profile and skillset that is not only fairly unique, but also highly coveted. He has PF size with decent guard skills. Even if theyre not refined, i would think most teams would look at him and think they can develop him into a star. I cant see him falling out of the lotto

In this class maybe he stil goes top 20 if someone is that low on other options or can't trade out and wants a g-league 1st rounder.
McDaniels was one of my fav out of HS. I was wrong and the first to admit it.
I do not see it at this point, the high ceiling part anyway. I think he can be a serviceable rotation 3 if he can get his head around not being a first option but he will take years to become a potential starter and I doubt anyone is burning a lotto pick oin him
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1300 » by Stillwater » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:18 pm

clyde21 wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
at the same point Butler's been a much better player than Clarkson overall


So...first round pick if workouts happen?


for me for sure, for most people doesn't seem like it

I think it is because this draft is loaded with guard options that there is a pretty wide margin for the 2nd half of the first to early maybe even mid 2nd. he could easily go 18th or fall to 36. depends on how much different the pre draft process is imo to govern if his stock can climb above the 25-35 range.
I could see him getting looks realistically right after Lewis & right before Jones 21-28 for some teams and others getting looks ahead of him in Riller,Queen and Flynn if he doesnt improve his stock and slides past CHA at 32 into the non lottery level roster range like Philly valuing more proven targets.
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