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2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Who do you prefer of the following prospects?

Desmond Bane
12
41%
Saddiq Bey
1
3%
RJ Hampton
1
3%
Kira Lewis Jr
4
14%
Tyrese Maxey
2
7%
Aaron Nesmith
2
7%
Isaac Okoro
1
3%
Jalen Smith
2
7%
Tyrell Terry
2
7%
Patrick Williams
2
7%
 
Total votes: 29

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#741 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:30 pm

There are exactly nine players I know for sure I would take before Cole Anthony. In no particular order, they are Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Hayes, Haliburton, Toppin, Vassell, Advija, and Okongwu.

Personally, I would prefer to draft a guy who plays any position other than point guard and so would only select one if he's clear BPA (like Ball and Haliburton would be if available at #10). In fact, I think if those nine are all of the board, we should certainly move down.

Edited: thanks bw
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#742 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:10 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=09

Another really solid point guard prospect to add to the list guys! This kid is loaded with elite potential. :nod: He's also slated as a mid- late 2nd rounder! Definitely another potential steal at 6'6 with a nearly 7 ft wingspan and elite athleticism too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thescorecrow.com/2020/05/05/2020-nba-draft-profile-karim-mane/amp/

Pro Comparison

Karim Mane studies the play of Jrue Holiday  often, and that is evident in his playstyle. His jump shot mechanics mirror that of Holiday, and his perimeter defense is an obvious homage.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#743 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:38 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=09

Also, IF we had to consider losing in free agency / trade Oubre, This kid really wouldn't be bad to take a flier on with an early 2nd round pick. He's got a lot of Brandon Ingram/ Jonathan Isaac in his game/ skillset. :dontknow:

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#744 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:01 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
RedIndian wrote:We shouldn't sleep on Cole Anthony, despite his highly inefficient college season. I think he'll be a better as a pro with the better spacing he gets in the NBA. Terrific ball handling, excellent first step and a sound looking stroke. I like that he tries on defense too - very good rebounder and shot blocker for a guard.
He's an interesting bet on talent if he's there at 11. Had a relatively poor season considering expectations but as you mentioned he could be one of those guys who's better in the pro game.

I don't remember where I read it but there was a study a few years back that said high school rankings were actually one of the best indicators of pro success. Basically talent trumps college production.

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Of course there are the Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Shabazz Muhammed, Nerlens Noel, Skal Labissiere, Josh Jackson and Markelle Fultz. Fultz not as high as others out of HS...more like latter half of top 10.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#745 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:07 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:There are exactly nine players I know for sure I wouldn't take before Cole Anthony. In no particular order, they are Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Hayes, Haliburton, Toppin, Vassell, Advija, and Okongwu.

Personally, I would prefer to draft a guy who plays any position other than point guard and so would only select one if he's clear BPA (like Ball and Haliburton would be if available at #10). In fact, I think if those nine are all of the board, we should certainly move down.


I assume you mean would take before Cole Anthony.

Any position other than PG seems odd, given the PGs we have run out since Bledsoe and before Rubio who has 2 years left and will be 30 this coming year, and then of course we have Ayton and Booker who will play 35 minutes a game or so and 3 wings who can play 3/4. I get the need for PF, but we are extremely thin at backup pg which is why we are turrible whenever Rubio is not on the floor and he is our oldest starter with the least amount of control with no worthy backup at all.

At least Bridges or Cam could backup Booker.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#746 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:56 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:There are exactly nine players I know for sure I wouldn't take before Cole Anthony. In no particular order, they are Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Hayes, Haliburton, Toppin, Vassell, Advija, and Okongwu.

Personally, I would prefer to draft a guy who plays any position other than point guard and so would only select one if he's clear BPA (like Ball and Haliburton would be if available at #10). In fact, I think if those nine are all of the board, we should certainly move down.


I assume you mean would take before Cole Anthony.

Any position other than PG seems odd, given the PGs we have run out since Bledsoe and before Rubio who has 2 years left and will be 30 this coming year, and then of course we have Ayton and Booker who will play 35 minutes a game or so and 3 wings who can play 3/4. I get the need for PF, but we are extremely thin at backup pg which is why we are turrible whenever Rubio is not on the floor and he is our oldest starter with the least amount of control with no worthy backup at all.

At least Bridges or Cam could backup Booker.
Yeah I'm totally down to take a PG. It's actually a nice situation where you can have them behind Rubio and learn but also make an immediate impact assuming they can beat out the other dudes. There's a good amount of PGs who could be the pick at that spot. I haven't really dove deep into them yet to have a person ranking.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#747 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:02 am

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
RedIndian wrote:We shouldn't sleep on Cole Anthony, despite his highly inefficient college season. I think he'll be a better as a pro with the better spacing he gets in the NBA. Terrific ball handling, excellent first step and a sound looking stroke. I like that he tries on defense too - very good rebounder and shot blocker for a guard.
He's an interesting bet on talent if he's there at 11. Had a relatively poor season considering expectations but as you mentioned he could be one of those guys who's better in the pro game.

I don't remember where I read it but there was a study a few years back that said high school rankings were actually one of the best indicators of pro success. Basically talent trumps college production.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Of course there are the Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Shabazz Muhammed, Nerlens Noel, Skal Labissiere, Josh Jackson and Markelle Fultz. Fultz not as high as others out of HS...more like latter half of top 10.


bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
RedIndian wrote:We shouldn't sleep on Cole Anthony, despite his highly inefficient college season. I think he'll be a better as a pro with the better spacing he gets in the NBA. Terrific ball handling, excellent first step and a sound looking stroke. I like that he tries on defense too - very good rebounder and shot blocker for a guard.
He's an interesting bet on talent if he's there at 11. Had a relatively poor season considering expectations but as you mentioned he could be one of those guys who's better in the pro game.

I don't remember where I read it but there was a study a few years back that said high school rankings were actually one of the best indicators of pro success. Basically talent trumps college production.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Of course there are the Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Shabazz Muhammed, Nerlens Noel, Skal Labissiere, Josh Jackson and Markelle Fultz. Fultz not as high as others out of HS...more like latter half of top 10.


For sure some don't pan out. Now Skal is kind of unfair to lump in because I actually think he's good he just ruined his knee. Parker and Noel both had injury issues. Noel is also kind of a **** head like Josh.

The Harrison twins would be a good example or that pg from Duke a few years ago.

Wiggins is kind of in-between. If he was the 10th pick in the draft and not on a max deal we'd probably think hes having a decent career.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#748 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:59 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:He's an interesting bet on talent if he's there at 11. Had a relatively poor season considering expectations but as you mentioned he could be one of those guys who's better in the pro game.

I don't remember where I read it but there was a study a few years back that said high school rankings were actually one of the best indicators of pro success. Basically talent trumps college production.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Of course there are the Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Shabazz Muhammed, Nerlens Noel, Skal Labissiere, Josh Jackson and Markelle Fultz. Fultz not as high as others out of HS...more like latter half of top 10.



For sure some don't pan out. Now Skal is kind of unfair to lump in because I actually think he's good he just ruined his knee. Parker and Noel both had injury issues. Noel is also kind of a **** head like Josh.

The Harrison twins would be a good example or that pg from Duke a few years ago.

Wiggins is kind of in-between. If he was the 10th pick in the draft and not on a max deal we'd probably think hes having a decent career.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


It will be interesting to see how Cole does. I know some like him, but he shot barely over 40% from 2 pt range...considering that includes going to the rim that's pretty bad. His overall fg% was 38%. He shot almost 35% from 3 so who knows how he will be from out there.

Then he had about a 1/1 ast/to ratio. I just at this point am hesitant to take a guy where part of what you have to hope for is learning how to shoot a decent percentage, provided they are not elite in other areas...and for a PG I would want that to be assists/turnovers. Some blame his bad teammates but he just wasn't that good.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#749 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:44 am

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Of course there are the Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Shabazz Muhammed, Nerlens Noel, Skal Labissiere, Josh Jackson and Markelle Fultz. Fultz not as high as others out of HS...more like latter half of top 10.



For sure some don't pan out. Now Skal is kind of unfair to lump in because I actually think he's good he just ruined his knee. Parker and Noel both had injury issues. Noel is also kind of a **** head like Josh.

The Harrison twins would be a good example or that pg from Duke a few years ago.

Wiggins is kind of in-between. If he was the 10th pick in the draft and not on a max deal we'd probably think hes having a decent career.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


It will be interesting to see how Cole does. I know some like him, but he shot barely over 40% from 2 pt range...considering that includes going to the rim that's pretty bad. His overall fg% was 38%. He shot almost 35% from 3 so who knows how he will be from out there.

Then he had about a 1/1 ast/to ratio. I just at this point am hesitant to take a guy where part of what you have to hope for is learning how to shoot a decent percentage, provided they are not elite in other areas...and for a PG I would want that to be assists/turnovers. Some blame his bad teammates but he just wasn't that good.
Yeah he wasn't very good that's for sure. I'm just saying sometimes in the middle of a weak draft you roll the dice on tools and hope they develop.

I highly doubt the suns pick him, he doesn't feel like the type this regime likes. I'd guess they love Haliburton.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#750 » by RedIndian » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:50 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:

For sure some don't pan out. Now Skal is kind of unfair to lump in because I actually think he's good he just ruined his knee. Parker and Noel both had injury issues. Noel is also kind of a **** head like Josh.

The Harrison twins would be a good example or that pg from Duke a few years ago.

Wiggins is kind of in-between. If he was the 10th pick in the draft and not on a max deal we'd probably think hes having a decent career.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


It will be interesting to see how Cole does. I know some like him, but he shot barely over 40% from 2 pt range...considering that includes going to the rim that's pretty bad. His overall fg% was 38%. He shot almost 35% from 3 so who knows how he will be from out there.

Then he had about a 1/1 ast/to ratio. I just at this point am hesitant to take a guy where part of what you have to hope for is learning how to shoot a decent percentage, provided they are not elite in other areas...and for a PG I would want that to be assists/turnovers. Some blame his bad teammates but he just wasn't that good.
Yeah he wasn't very good that's for sure. I'm just saying sometimes in the middle of a weak draft you roll the dice on tools and hope they develop.

I highly doubt the suns pick him, he doesn't feel like the type this regime likes. I'd guess they love Haliburton.

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Haliburton definitely seems like a Jones pick, but I highly doubt that he lasts till #10.

Cole is kind of a flashy player, so might not appeal to Jones, but there's good stuff written about his work ethic and competitiveness. So I hope we do our diligence on him, and don't just dismiss him based on stats and the perceived flash.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#751 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:36 pm

RedIndian wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how Cole does. I know some like him, but he shot barely over 40% from 2 pt range...considering that includes going to the rim that's pretty bad. His overall fg% was 38%. He shot almost 35% from 3 so who knows how he will be from out there.

Then he had about a 1/1 ast/to ratio. I just at this point am hesitant to take a guy where part of what you have to hope for is learning how to shoot a decent percentage, provided they are not elite in other areas...and for a PG I would want that to be assists/turnovers. Some blame his bad teammates but he just wasn't that good.
Yeah he wasn't very good that's for sure. I'm just saying sometimes in the middle of a weak draft you roll the dice on tools and hope they develop.

I highly doubt the suns pick him, he doesn't feel like the type this regime likes. I'd guess they love Haliburton.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Haliburton definitely seems like a Jones pick, but I highly doubt that he lasts till #10.

Cole is kind of a flashy player, so might not appeal to Jones, but there's good stuff written about his work ethic and competitiveness. So I hope we do our diligence on him, and don't just dismiss him based on stats and the perceived flash.


This I agree with - the shooting splits in particular indicate Cole might be better than his college stats would otherwise indicate.

I guess I'm just looking more at next year and not 2+ years down the line. I honestly don't understand why we're acting as if Rubio's going to expire like yogurt in the fridge, or why the fan base seems so thoroughly convinced that neither Payne (next year) or Jerome (in a couple years) will be useful backups.

I'm more focused on the fact that we have no backup 2, 4 or 5 under contract for next season and no third string 3. And what we really lack, most of all in my view, is defensive length - I'm talking energetic, agile players 6'9" or taller with 7' wingspans - and playmaking generally. I get the desire for a killer playmaking third guard behind Ricky and Devin, but you can find that guy in free agency, not with the #10 pick.

If our plan is to be a good team next season, we shouldn't count on the player we draft for anything more than depth. I'm talking third string, maybe second by year's end. And there's nothing we have more of than third string point guards. We are constantly drafting them. PLEASE draft anything else, unless Haliburton drops. If he pans out, I could see him working really well sharing playmaking/shooting duties with Booker long-term. But the rest of the PGs we're talking about (Anthony, Lewis) are traditional on-ball point guards whose NBA futures are totally speculative at this point and I see no reason to think either will be any better at this level than Payne or Jerome (or Carter or Okobo for that matter).
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#752 » by RedIndian » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:25 pm

I disagree. I think getting a shot-creating (passing and scoring) guard who can be a long-term successor to Rubio and running mate for Booker should be a priority. The reason simply being that if the core of this team is Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Booker, that line-up works from a spacing perspective only if you get another perimeter threat at the other guard spot.

I view Rubio as a bridge piece for this young roster. He's a very smart player, and has clearly had a very good impact on the development of our young guys, but he's not going to part of this team when it's ready to contend. This team's prime will begin only in 2022 once we extend Ayton and Bridges (and perhaps Oubre next year). By the time Rubio's contract expires, I'd want a young guard who's ready to take over the reigns.

And I don't think it's fair to assume that any PG we draft will be at the level of a Payne or Jerome (neither of whom are athletically suited to playing in the NBA). There's plenty of recent evidence of guards being drafted and immediately having a positive impact as bench scorers (think VanVleet, Terrance Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Sexton, Devonte Graham) or even bona fide starters / stars (Trae, Ja, SGA, Brogdon).

This draft to me seems to be heavier on PG talent rather than wing or PF talent. I would say someone like Cole or Kira have a good chance of coming in and being that VanVleet, Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Graham level player, and potentially a long term starter once Rubio's contract expires in 2022.

In fact, I don't see a guard in that mold who could be a viable target for us in free agency either this year or the next. Whereas getting a relatively cheap long athletic wing / PF type in free agency mould in free agency seems more realistic - think Grant, Harkless, Torrey Craig, Crowder, Jaymychal Green, RHJ, Bembry, DJJ, Boucher.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#753 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:32 pm

RedIndian wrote:I disagree. I think getting a shot-creating (passing and scoring) guard who can be a long-term successor to Rubio and running mate for Booker should be a priority. The reason simply being that if the core of this team is Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Booker, that line-up works from a spacing perspective only if you get another perimeter threat at the other guard spot.

I view Rubio as a bridge piece for this young roster. He's a very smart player, and has clearly had a very good impact on the development of our young guys, but he's not going to part of this team when it's ready to contend. This team's prime will begin only in 2022 once we extend Ayton and Bridges (and perhaps Oubre next year). By the time Rubio's contract expires, I'd want a young guard who's ready to take over the reigns.

And I don't think it's fair to assume that any PG we draft will be at the level of a Payne or Jerome (neither of whom are athletically suited to playing in the NBA). There's plenty of recent evidence of guards being drafted and immediately having a positive impact as bench scorers (think VanVleet, Terrance Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Sexton, Devonte Graham) or even bona fide starters / stars (Trae, Ja, SGA, Brogdon).

This draft to me seems to be heavier on PG talent rather than wing or PF talent. I would say someone like Cole or Kira have a good chance of coming in and being that VanVleet, Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Graham level player, and potentially a long term starter once Rubio's contract expires in 2022.

In fact, I don't see a guard in that mold who could be a viable target for us in free agency either this year or the next. Whereas getting a relatively cheap long athletic wing / PF type in free agency mould in free agency seems more realistic - think Grant, Harkless, Torrey Craig, Crowder, Jaymychal Green, RHJ, Bembry, DJJ, Boucher.


I mean, your list of impact PGs's is interesting in that (1) every player on it save Sexton was not a high draft pick, (2) none of those players were useful their first year in the league and (3) apart from the second-year players Sexton and Graham, all could have been had in free agency by the end of their rookie contracts (or by trade in Schroeder's case).

Seems to me that you and a lot of Suns fans think we need to draft a hot young PG so we can build our fantasy dream team of the future, with young stud starters at each position, dominating the L. Closest thing I ever saw was the 11-12 Thunder but in general that doesn't happen and you should plan for it (look what happened to the Thunder). By all means, if you see a Trae, Ja or SGA available at #10, sure, I'll draft him. I don't see him. Brogdon is better than Rubio but not, like, dramatically so. Rubio is really underrated 'round here, and I could easily see him continuing to up his 3FG% over the next few years a la older [J]Ason Kidd.

I don't like any of the names on your list of "wing/PF types" except Boucher, who is RFA and the only one of these players who I would not immediately sub out for one of Bridges, Cam and Oubre in almost any situation. Surely the Raps will let Ibaka walk and keep Boucher, no?

Mark these words. Cole Anthony and Kira Lewis will be below replacement level players the first year in the league best case scenario. So instead of throwing another baby PG out there to drag down our squad or nail to the bench, can we please draft a player who can at least fit on our *current* depth chart, and worry about who will be the 2022-23 starting PG maybe, like, some time between now and two years from now?? I just don't get why people are so eager to gamble a lottery pick on a young player who hasn't shown **** like Lewis and Anthony. It's just such a gamble... And in addition to the pick, you have to throw out your current investments in Payne/Jerome/Carter to take them. It's just.... I hate the idea. I hope our FO does too. I'm guessing they do.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#754 » by Mr Puddles » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:57 pm

RedIndian wrote:I disagree. I think getting a shot-creating (passing and scoring) guard who can be a long-term successor to Rubio and running mate for Booker should be a priority. The reason simply being that if the core of this team is Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Booker, that line-up works from a spacing perspective only if you get another perimeter threat at the other guard spot.

I view Rubio as a bridge piece for this young roster. He's a very smart player, and has clearly had a very good impact on the development of our young guys, but he's not going to part of this team when it's ready to contend. This team's prime will begin only in 2022 once we extend Ayton and Bridges (and perhaps Oubre next year). By the time Rubio's contract expires, I'd want a young guard who's ready to take over the reigns.

And I don't think it's fair to assume that any PG we draft will be at the level of a Payne or Jerome (neither of whom are athletically suited to playing in the NBA). There's plenty of recent evidence of guards being drafted and immediately having a positive impact as bench scorers (think VanVleet, Terrance Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Sexton, Devonte Graham) or even bona fide starters / stars (Trae, Ja, SGA, Brogdon).

This draft to me seems to be heavier on PG talent rather than wing or PF talent. I would say someone like Cole or Kira have a good chance of coming in and being that VanVleet, Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Graham level player, and potentially a long term starter once Rubio's contract expires in 2022.

In fact, I don't see a guard in that mold who could be a viable target for us in free agency either this year or the next. Whereas getting a relatively cheap long athletic wing / PF type in free agency mould in free agency seems more realistic - think Grant, Harkless, Torrey Craig, Crowder, Jaymychal Green, RHJ, Bembry, DJJ, Boucher.


Yes, I agree with Elizabeth Warren here. I like Rubio as a stop gap solution but his in ability to play off ball well is a liability long term.

Also, I Rubio decides to walk after his contract expires I don't t want to be back in point guard limbo, we need an insurance policy. The draft seems to be loaded with lottery ranked point guards so chances are someone that we like will fall to us.

Get someone in to be groomed under Rubio over the next two years and hopefully be in an a luxury position where we have a capable point guard that we can promote as a starter or bring back Rubio once he expires.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#755 » by Mr Puddles » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:58 pm

RedIndian wrote:I disagree. I think getting a shot-creating (passing and scoring) guard who can be a long-term successor to Rubio and running mate for Booker should be a priority. The reason simply being that if the core of this team is Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Booker, that line-up works from a spacing perspective only if you get another perimeter threat at the other guard spot.

I view Rubio as a bridge piece for this young roster. He's a very smart player, and has clearly had a very good impact on the development of our young guys, but he's not going to part of this team when it's ready to contend. This team's prime will begin only in 2022 once we extend Ayton and Bridges (and perhaps Oubre next year). By the time Rubio's contract expires, I'd want a young guard who's ready to take over the reigns.

And I don't think it's fair to assume that any PG we draft will be at the level of a Payne or Jerome (neither of whom are athletically suited to playing in the NBA). There's plenty of recent evidence of guards being drafted and immediately having a positive impact as bench scorers (think VanVleet, Terrance Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Sexton, Devonte Graham) or even bona fide starters / stars (Trae, Ja, SGA, Brogdon).

This draft to me seems to be heavier on PG talent rather than wing or PF talent. I would say someone like Cole or Kira have a good chance of coming in and being that VanVleet, Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Graham level player, and potentially a long term starter once Rubio's contract expires in 2022.

In fact, I don't see a guard in that mold who could be a viable target for us in free agency either this year or the next. Whereas getting a relatively cheap long athletic wing / PF type in free agency mould in free agency seems more realistic - think Grant, Harkless, Torrey Craig, Crowder, Jaymychal Green, RHJ, Bembry, DJJ, Boucher.


Yes, I agree with Elizabeth Warren here. I like Rubio as a stop gap solution but his inability to play off ball well is a liability long term.

Also, if Rubio decides to walk after his contract expires I don't want to be back in point guard limbo, we need an insurance policy. The draft seems to be loaded with lottery ranked point guards so chances are someone that we like will fall to us.

Get someone in to be groomed under Rubio over the next two years and hopefully be in an a luxury position where we have a capable point guard that we can promote as a starter or bring back Rubio once he expires.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#756 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:03 pm

RedIndian wrote:I disagree. I think getting a shot-creating (passing and scoring) guard who can be a long-term successor to Rubio and running mate for Booker should be a priority. The reason simply being that if the core of this team is Ayton, Oubre, Bridges, Booker, that line-up works from a spacing perspective only if you get another perimeter threat at the other guard spot.

I view Rubio as a bridge piece for this young roster. He's a very smart player, and has clearly had a very good impact on the development of our young guys, but he's not going to part of this team when it's ready to contend. This team's prime will begin only in 2022 once we extend Ayton and Bridges (and perhaps Oubre next year). By the time Rubio's contract expires, I'd want a young guard who's ready to take over the reigns.

And I don't think it's fair to assume that any PG we draft will be at the level of a Payne or Jerome (neither of whom are athletically suited to playing in the NBA). There's plenty of recent evidence of guards being drafted and immediately having a positive impact as bench scorers (think VanVleet, Terrance Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Sexton, Devonte Graham) or even bona fide starters / stars (Trae, Ja, SGA, Brogdon).

This draft to me seems to be heavier on PG talent rather than wing or PF talent. I would say someone like Cole or Kira have a good chance of coming in and being that VanVleet, Davis, Rozier, Schroder, Graham level player, and potentially a long term starter once Rubio's contract expires in 2022.

In fact, I don't see a guard in that mold who could be a viable target for us in free agency either this year or the next. Whereas getting a relatively cheap long athletic wing / PF type in free agency mould in free agency seems more realistic - think Grant, Harkless, Torrey Craig, Crowder, Jaymychal Green, RHJ, Bembry, DJJ, Boucher.


Agree with most everything that both you and McD have already said. McD, With respect to us critically needing depth and athleticism. At multiple positions. For example, I'd as repeatedly mentioned, love to acquire an additional pick or two to add a Jalen Smith to be our backup 4/5. Or definitely Paul Reed for our backup 3/4 needs. Then go full offense in free agency. And also purchase a 2nd to grab a young athletic backup 5 option as an insurance policy for Baynes? Tyler Bey would also be amazing as a backup 3/4 ( small ball 4 option) with Bridges manning the 2 in " Point Book" situations.

And also with what you ( Red ) said, In that point guards like Lewis and/or Cole, Though I'm admittedly not as high on him, I just have Riller slightly higher at this point because of his overall body of work/ production. But I do agree that any of those 3 prospects should quite reasonably be able to contribute from day 1. And also that we will absolutely have options at the 4 in free agency, despite the lockdown circumstances.

So you're both right, In that we absolutely should target one of Kira Lewis or Grant Riller or Cole Anthony at 10, But we should ALSO absolutely look to address our backup depth at the 3-5 with a later pick. And absolutely look to add more depth at positions of roster weakness that lack Elite athleticism and length too.

Overall, it's difficult to project our intended direction, As there are just seem to be so many variables.
-Are we keeping/ moving Oubre?
- Are we staying at 10, Or looking to move back?
- Is the front office prioritizing a backup guard first or a 3 and D power forward option?

I'm still of the mind that teams will be looking to overpay for a flashy signing after this whole lockdown fiasco to reenergize fan interest. So with respect to that, I do think that our front office is anticipating a strong possibility that we'll ultimately lose Oubre. So that's the reason that they were guaging his market value discreetly with Orlando. I also think that's the underlying reason for them to push Oubre to participate in the bubble games to potentially up his market value. So IF we intend to move Oubre, Then I'd explore ( with intent to add cap for a higher tier free agent)?

If we're keeping our 10th pick?

-New York-
Oubre for Portis' 15 million team option ( declined) 25th pick/ And The DALLAS 2021 UNPROTECTED FIRST. Then I'd look to trade the 10th pick to either Boston for the 17/30.

17- Draft Kira Lewis *( If he falls) or Riller or Terry ( for elite shooting gravity).
25- Tyler Bey or Paul Reed.
30- Draft Daniel Oturu or Vernon Carey.
In free agency, Pursue Gallinari ( Booker's friend) or else Bertrans. and then Justin Holiday with our exception.

-To Atlanta-
For cap space/ 52nd pick. * Buy an early 2nd from Philly ( 34).
10 - Draft one of Cole Anthony/ Kira Lewis/ Grant Riller.
34- Draft Paul Reed.
52- Draft Nik Richards ( Javale McGee).
Then in free agency, Add Gallinari, or else Bertrans, and also add Justin Holiday or Glenn Robinson 3rd with our exception.

To Dallas -
For Delon Wright and the 18th pick.
*** For this pick we change it up a bit.
10- Draft Devin Vassell. (* Oubre replacement).
18- Draft Jalen Smith or Paul Reed. (* Flank Bertrans defensively).
** Buy a 2nd from either Philly or Sacramento. And draft Oturu or Carey or Reggie Perry? *** (Baynes insurance).
In free agency, We go after Bertrans. and then
Add either Bryn Forbes or Alec Burks for added offense. Elite lockdown defensive team. But still with great shooting.

OR if we plan to keep Oubre for sure, Then maybe:

- We revisit the Kennard trade -
Phoenix trades the 10th pick to Detroit for Luke Kennard. Early 2nd and look to draft Paul Reed ( backup 3/4 depth) and huge upside! Then in free agency, We look to add Bertrans and Justin Holiday for added defense and floor spacing. Resign Baynes.

Phoenix/ Philly-
Phoenix trades the 10th pick for Josh Richardson/ 20th/ 34th picks.
22- Draft Paul Reed.
34- Daniel Oturu.
In free agency, We sign Bertrans ( Budget Gallinari). And also use our exception to add Bry Forbes as our 6th man scorer off the Bench. Phoenix becomes a defensive juggernaut, But also with elite scoring too.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#757 » by GoodBehavior » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:03 pm

Cole Anthony will not stay on the board at the 10th pick. Mock boards are very bad, and the so called "experts" are not worth reading. Their positioning are based on quick, lazy analysis.

- His "bad" shooting stats(75% FT; 35% 3pt) is far from bad. It's slightly below average, but lots of guards have enter the draft with worse stats. His mechanics and motion looks good. If anything, chances are that he will be a decent long range shooter
- PG with scoring mentality is no longer a negative in this league. It's becoming more common.
- Bad shot selection is solvable, his intangible and coach-ability is high. Doesn't have that Austin River's ego that prevents him from being a better distributor
- His defense is very underrated. Should be a good pesky on ball defender and is very active off ball. Address one of the Suns' biggest weakness (guarding faster guard). Perfect defensive complement to Booker, if you're going with Point Book
- His quickness will be a terror on the PNR, when aligned with Ayton. Don't think they will be a faster combo (1-5)

Cole Anthony's downside is a better shooting version Austin River, who was drafted 10th. Mind you, this downside is better than any point guard this team has, sans Rubio of course, since Bledsoe. At worse, he's a change of pace, backup point guard. Cole Anthony's baseline comparison has always been Jamal Murray, who was drafted 7th. Cole Anthony actually has a reasonable chance (with good player development) to be better than Murray. Imagine a Murray-Booker backcourt: two guards that can play point (and off ball). That would be a devastating tandem on the PNR with DA.

No way, any team in this league, which has become guard-friendly, will pass on him beyond the 10th pick, in one of the weakest draft we have seen in ages.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#758 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:40 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
RedIndian wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Yeah he wasn't very good that's for sure. I'm just saying sometimes in the middle of a weak draft you roll the dice on tools and hope they develop.

I highly doubt the suns pick him, he doesn't feel like the type this regime likes. I'd guess they love Haliburton.

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Haliburton definitely seems like a Jones pick, but I highly doubt that he lasts till #10.

Cole is kind of a flashy player, so might not appeal to Jones, but there's good stuff written about his work ethic and competitiveness. So I hope we do our diligence on him, and don't just dismiss him based on stats and the perceived flash.


This I agree with - the shooting splits in particular indicate Cole might be better than his college stats would otherwise indicate.

I guess I'm just looking more at next year and not 2+ years down the line. I honestly don't understand why we're acting as if Rubio's going to expire like yogurt in the fridge, or why the fan base seems so thoroughly convinced that neither Payne (next year) or Jerome (in a couple years) will be useful backups.

I'm more focused on the fact that we have no backup 2, 4 or 5 under contract for next season and no third string 3. And what we really lack, most of all in my view, is defensive length - I'm talking energetic, agile players 6'9" or taller with 7' wingspans - and playmaking generally. I get the desire for a killer playmaking third guard behind Ricky and Devin, but you can find that guy in free agency, not with the #10 pick.

If our plan is to be a good team next season, we shouldn't count on the player we draft for anything more than depth. I'm talking third string, maybe second by year's end. And there's nothing we have more of than third string point guards. We are constantly drafting them. PLEASE draft anything else, unless Haliburton drops. If he pans out, I could see him working really well sharing playmaking/shooting duties with Booker long-term. But the rest of the PGs we're talking about (Anthony, Lewis) are traditional on-ball point guards whose NBA futures are totally speculative at this point and I see no reason to think either will be any better at this level than Payne or Jerome (or Carter or Okobo for that matter).


I've posted before that I would prefer a PF to a PG, but we have Mikal, Kelly and Cam at the 3, who have versatility to play the 2-4, plus probably at least one of Dario and Frank at the 4. But 2 and 3 are not a huge deal if we keep Mikal, Kelly and Cam.

We know more of what we have in Cam (and especially MIkal and Kelly) than we do Jerome and Payne....I don't really understand why you feel so comfortable at 1 when the biggest drop off by a long shot is backup PG, unless you like Booker playing PG. I don't think Rubio is going to get worse but yes, his contract will run out soon and he would be 32. There are only about 5 starting PGs who are that age or older but they are all pretty much in decline or near the end (Paul, Dragic, Hill, Augustin, Conley).

I definitely don't just want to look at next year...I would like to think of figuring out a PG of the future. I think Rubio will be solid the next couple of years, and maybe 1 or 2 after that, but I think finding a long term solution at PG who may be a great backup for 2-4 years, like Dragic was, would be nice too.

But I'm not high on Cole Anthony. I wouldn't mind Halliburton but I'd definitely take a long hard look at Killian Hayes if he is there too.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#759 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:50 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote: So instead of throwing another baby PG out there to drag down our squad or nail to the bench, can we please draft a player who can at least fit on our *current* depth chart, and worry about who will be the 2022-23 starting PG maybe, like, some time between now and two years from now?? I just don't get why people are so eager to gamble a lottery pick on a young player who hasn't shown **** like Lewis and Anthony. It's just such a gamble... And in addition to the pick, you have to throw out your current investments in Payne/Jerome/Carter to take them. It's just.... I hate the idea. I hope our FO does too. I'm guessing they do.


So you don't want to throw a baby PG out there now, but want to find one between now and 2 years from now to throw out with them? It's pretty rare you get a franchise type cornerstone PG (or any position for that matter) in FA or trade. So the best way to build is through the draft, like we have with most of our core.

But again, if it comes down to Toppin or Avidja vs a PG, yes, I go for the PF because I think a backup PG is pretty easy to find in FA or maybe trade. But I'd take Halliburton or Hayes over most all of the other options.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch 

Post#760 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:16 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote: So instead of throwing another baby PG out there to drag down our squad or nail to the bench, can we please draft a player who can at least fit on our *current* depth chart, and worry about who will be the 2022-23 starting PG maybe, like, some time between now and two years from now?? I just don't get why people are so eager to gamble a lottery pick on a young player who hasn't shown **** like Lewis and Anthony. It's just such a gamble... And in addition to the pick, you have to throw out your current investments in Payne/Jerome/Carter to take them. It's just.... I hate the idea. I hope our FO does too. I'm guessing they do.


So you don't want to throw a baby PG out there now, but want to find one between now and 2 years from now to throw out with them? It's pretty rare you get a franchise type cornerstone PG (or any position for that matter) in FA or trade. So the best way to build is through the draft, like we have with most of our core.

But again, if it comes down to Toppin or Avidja vs a PG, yes, I go for the PF because I think a backup PG is pretty easy to find in FA or maybe trade. But I'd take Halliburton or Hayes over most all of the other options.


A cornerstone PG. Not a cornerstone anything else, we just need to get a cornerstone PG. And they gotta be young for some reason, to boot. I mean, what team has ever won anything without the young cornerstone PG they drafted? Who needs anything else?

WHY that? Why aren't good point guards good enough? Why is it star or bust, and what makes anyone think that Kira Lewis or Grant Riller will be that, but Reed or Pokusevski won't?

I don't care. It's fine. We're just in stark disagreement on this one. I want a player. If it's a star, I don't care what position it's at because a star is a star, and we'll make it work (or deal him for a star's ransom). No one in this draft projects as a star. Give me a useful player first and we'll go from there. Don't care what position--just not point guard, unless it's Haliburton, Ball or Hayes.

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