Where do you draw the line for "star"?

[DoubleLintendre]

Perrenial All-Star level player. Top 5ish at your position. That's my line for authentic star vs team star (which is the best 1-2 players on the team regardless of ranking).

Superstar is different. That would be top 10-15 of the league depending on the talent pool. I don't consider celebrity status to be in the equation much anymore, did when I was younger.

[Duke4life831]

Immediately I was going to say All Star selection as my cut off, but thinking more on that, I wouldn't agree with that. For example, I don't consider D'Angelo Russell a star in this league, even though he has made an all-star game.

Id probably say for most years, the top 20 are stars while the top 3-5 are the elite superstars.

[Roco14]

If you can average 20 PPG for multiple years while making the playoffs, you're probably considered a star today. So around 20-25 players in the league can be considered stars (or 30 PPG scorers on terrible teams - Beal/Booker/Trae).

[elchengue20]

For me, its simple. A star requires the numbers along with an All-Star selection. The All-star selection is needed because you aren't a "Star" in any walk of life if the general public doesn't recognize you as one. If a player can't even get the recognition to be voted in by the masses, they aren't a star.

I think young players can be trending towards stardom but quality players like Jrue Holiday can never be stars because they've never put up All-star numbers let alone been to an All-star game. Also too old. He's had his day. Players like this are below star level.

So Bradley Beal who is averaging 30 ppg and carrying a terrible team into at least a slim hope of making the Playoffs, he isn't a star? He looks like a star to me.

[dhsilv2]

Spoiler:

Well there's certainly a "fandom" or "popularity" element to the term "star". I however think more in terms of "star impact". So in that a star is a player who can have star level impact on a teams winning and loosing or more directly point differential. Where things get tricky is if a "star" is still one if they no longer produce at that level but have the reputation as such.

So lets test the idea. There are the players with a BPM of 2 or greater.

James Harden
Giannis Antetokounmpo
LeBron James
Nikola Jokić
Anthony Davis
Damian Lillard
Luka Dončić
Kawhi Leonard
Jimmy Butler
Bam Adebayo
Chris Paul
Trae Young
Rudy Gobert
Jayson Tatum
Domantas Sabonis
Ben Simmons
Karl-Anthony Towns
Khris Middleton
Nikola Vučević
Kemba Walker
Bradley Beal
Kyle Lowry
Hassan Whiteside
Joel Embiid
Zach LaVine
Danilo Gallinari
Montrezl Harrell
Devin Booker
Jrue Holiday
Brandon Ingram
Donovan Mitchell
Steven Adams
Paul George
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Al Horford
Pascal Siakam

Ignoring some noise, maybe you're not into say Steven Adams for example. This is mostly the right list and the size seems reasonable, about 36 players in the 30 team league.

Then we have the well maybe we should think about it group 1.5-1.9 BPM.

DeMar DeRozan
Spencer Dinwiddie
Gordon Hayward
Kevin Love
Mitchell Robinson
Jonas Valančiūnas
Fred VanVleet
Russell Westbrook
Jarrett Allen
Nemanja Bjelica
John Collins
Buddy Hield
Christian Wood
Eric Bledsoe
Evan Fournier
Kyrie Irving
CJ McCollum
Delon Wright
LaMarcus Aldridge
Will Barton
Brandon Clarke
Tobias Harris
George Hill
Justin Holiday
DeAndre Jordan
Brook Lopez
Nerlens Noel
Marcus Smart
Daniel Theis

Here I see a lot of questionable guys, but mostly this is another list of mostly players who'd qualify as a star in terms of their ability to consistently impact games.

So I guess I'm ok going as high as about 65 stars in the league last year, which is about two players per team...exactly what you'd expect give the size and quality of the league today.

Keep in mind I am not saying BPM defines the stars or that this is the list, but that the approach and concept should produce roughly the size of players that BPM did with there being a "questionable" grouping that fits the profile in metrics but deeper analysis or common sense (no way Noel is a star) would remove some and likely we'd find a few who missed this list who are simply scored wrong.

Give 'er a data check... I looked at a few guys that confused me. Kyrie's BPM was 7.7 this year. Did you do VORP? He is way down there due to injury because that stat is cumulative.

Also, Mitch is a starrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Just straight BPM, the goal wasn't to so much identify the right list but to get a scale on where the league is right now in terms of size and the number of quality capable impact guys.

[Johnny Bball]

Top 5 overall is star (superstar). Top 20 is Allstar.

[Capn'O]

Spoiler:

Well there's certainly a "fandom" or "popularity" element to the term "star". I however think more in terms of "star impact". So in that a star is a player who can have star level impact on a teams winning and loosing or more directly point differential. Where things get tricky is if a "star" is still one if they no longer produce at that level but have the reputation as such.

So lets test the idea. There are the players with a BPM of 2 or greater.

James Harden
Giannis Antetokounmpo
LeBron James
Nikola Jokić
Anthony Davis
Damian Lillard
Luka Dončić
Kawhi Leonard
Jimmy Butler
Bam Adebayo
Chris Paul
Trae Young
Rudy Gobert
Jayson Tatum
Domantas Sabonis
Ben Simmons
Karl-Anthony Towns
Khris Middleton
Nikola Vučević
Kemba Walker
Bradley Beal
Kyle Lowry
Hassan Whiteside
Joel Embiid
Zach LaVine
Danilo Gallinari
Montrezl Harrell
Devin Booker
Jrue Holiday
Brandon Ingram
Donovan Mitchell
Steven Adams
Paul George
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Al Horford
Pascal Siakam

Ignoring some noise, maybe you're not into say Steven Adams for example. This is mostly the right list and the size seems reasonable, about 36 players in the 30 team league.

Then we have the well maybe we should think about it group 1.5-1.9 BPM.

DeMar DeRozan
Spencer Dinwiddie
Gordon Hayward
Kevin Love
Mitchell Robinson
Jonas Valančiūnas
Fred VanVleet
Russell Westbrook
Jarrett Allen
Nemanja Bjelica
John Collins
Buddy Hield
Christian Wood
Eric Bledsoe
Evan Fournier
Kyrie Irving
CJ McCollum
Delon Wright
LaMarcus Aldridge
Will Barton
Brandon Clarke
Tobias Harris
George Hill
Justin Holiday
DeAndre Jordan
Brook Lopez
Nerlens Noel
Marcus Smart
Daniel Theis

Here I see a lot of questionable guys, but mostly this is another list of mostly players who'd qualify as a star in terms of their ability to consistently impact games.

So I guess I'm ok going as high as about 65 stars in the league last year, which is about two players per team...exactly what you'd expect give the size and quality of the league today.

Keep in mind I am not saying BPM defines the stars or that this is the list, but that the approach and concept should produce roughly the size of players that BPM did with there being a "questionable" grouping that fits the profile in metrics but deeper analysis or common sense (no way Noel is a star) would remove some and likely we'd find a few who missed this list who are simply scored wrong.

Give 'er a data check... I looked at a few guys that confused me. Kyrie's BPM was 7.7 this year. Did you do VORP? He is way down there due to injury because that stat is cumulative.

Also, Mitch is a starrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Just straight BPM, the goal wasn't to so much identify the right list but to get a scale on where the league is right now in terms of size and the number of quality capable impact guys.

I'm checking more guys. I don't particularly have a dog in one stat vs the other but you sorted using the VORP column instead of the BPM column. I promise.

[rzzzzz]

Jrue Holiday is certainly a good enough player to be a star on a championship team. like all those hall of famers who played alongside Russell. how good was Maurice Lucas. pretty damn good, but would anybody remember him if it wasn't for his run with Walton. Gus Williams and Fred Brown had well known nicknames (the Wizard and Downtown) because they were contenders. Steve Kerr? (well he had his moments but I guess you can't exactly call him a star.) i will say though that Jrue probably felt like his life was more than blessed with the recovery of Lauren (who now that I think about it, was a 3 time gold medalist.)

[dhsilv2]

Give 'er a data check... I looked at a few guys that confused me. Kyrie's BPM was 7.7 this year. Did you do VORP? He is way down there due to injury because that stat is cumulative.

Also, Mitch is a starrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Just straight BPM, the goal wasn't to so much identify the right list but to get a scale on where the league is right now in terms of size and the number of quality capable impact guys.

I'm checking more guys. I don't particularly have a dog in one stat vs the other but you sorted using the VORP column instead of the BPM column. I promise.

I'll believe you, I was working when I did that, and I legit took 30 minutes to make that post because of that. Working at home life I guess.

Either way I think the ~65 people was the goal to reasonably prove made sense as that was *roughly* my number in my head, not exact but about 2 per team and 2.0 bpm was my gut thought for a guy who makes a real meaningful impact.

[dhsilv2]

Jrue Holiday is certainly a good enough player to be a star on a championship team. like all those hall of famers who played alongside Russell. how good was Maurice Lucas. pretty damn good, but would anybody remember him if it wasn't for his run with Walton. Gus Williams and Fred Brown had well known nicknames (the Wizard and Downtown) because they were contenders. Steve Kerr? (well he had his moments but I guess you can't exactly call him a star.) i will say though that Jrue probably felt like his life was more than blessed with the recovery of Lauren (who now that I think about it, was a 3 time gold medalist.)

Jrue is REALLY good and he's good in the things that win big games. He's sadly just not been on the right teams.

[Metallikid]

I would say that a 'star' is someone who is in the tier right below current All-Star. That is how I believe it is usually used in common parlance - the media perhaps use an even lower standard than what I am supposing - but that's where I would draw the line.

So Montrezl Harrel is a star. Jamal Murray is a star. Jaylen Brown is a star. Fred VanVleet is a star.

All-Stars are exactly that (including recent former), and Superstars are All-NBA calibre players. (even though a few might be snubbed)

[DutchManDanFan]

Stars, All Stars, and Super stars

Stars are fringe all star players and maybe the best non all star player in your market (speaking just as a team fan)

All stars are self explanatory

Super Stars are reserved for the legit game changers. I dont like to throw this term around. But there is so much talent in the league right now and therefor large amount of true superstars. You can have a conversation about 7-10 current players.

Super stars > stars > all stars

Super stars are top 5/MVP candidates for multiple years: LeBron, Giannis, KD, Kawhi, Curry, Harden, Westbrook, CP3. AD is on the line. Carmelo is if you never lose the status like a GM in chess.
Stars are 5+ times all star. For me Lowry is on the line. He would not be 5 times AS in the West.

Media attention can promote a player to a star as well. A true star shines on tv. That’s why Zion is a star as well.

[Lalouie]

Jrue Holiday is definitely a star wtf.

Well that's what I'm asking- where do you draw the line?

jrue's not a headliner, so he's not THAT kind of star. he's a low key star

he's a chewetel ejiofor or a jeffrey wright. he's not a denzel or a jamie fox

[SA37]

To me, a star is a player you can build a ~50-win team around. In other words, the player is good enough that teams will make other personnel decisions based on how those players will fit with the star’s game. Edit: Also, you are a marquee attraction within the league; opposing teams’ fans pay money and are looking forward to going to see you play.

In the NBA right now, these guys are stars:

LeBron, Giannis, Jokic, Doncic, Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Paul George, Leonard, Durant, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, and Paul

Possibly stars: Tatum, Trae Young, Simmons, Towns, Ja Morant, Zion, Booker, Oladipo, Wall, Beal, Jimmy Butler, SGA, Siakam, and Mitchell.

I am probably forgetting a few names, but...

From your star list, I'm curious who else still has Blake? I personally do not. Injuries plus Detroit (lack of media interest/ promotion) IMO have diminished his status significantly. To piggyback on OP's point, my secondary question would be what factors would remove a player's star status?

I don’t know if he’ll get past the injuries he’s had, but he’s a heck of a player. At 31 and with injury concerns, no one is going to build their team around him at this point, but if he were 27/28 and a FA, I think most teams would offer him the max.

Based on skill, the only PFs I have ahead if him are Giannis and A Davis.

[OdomFan]

To me a star is any player who consistently helps their team succeed throughout every season. You shouldn't have to be required to make the All Star Game to qualify because the league has a ton of talent in every position. Some people just don't make the cut and its not because they aren't good enough.

Like Mike Bibby for example. Never made the All Star Game once, but there was no denying that he was a star in the NBA throughout his best days. Especially with the Kings. Marcus Camby is another who I'd consider a star despite that.

[Harry Garris]

a star is someone people talk about.

i don't think advanced metrics come into play here, at which point we would start diddling about specifics when the question posed is generic in nature. in the case of movies, a star carries the film - he has a responsibility to lead. good movie, bad movie, good "actor" bad "actor", it doesn't matter. good or bad doesn't define a star. that's an assessment of quality.

so a star in basketball has to be a leader of the team. and i'd leave it at that. whoever is leading the team,,,that's the star. after you round up that group, you parse it however you want. good star, stat stuffer stars , mega stars, all stars, overrated underrated, non winners,

lebron, ad
westbrook, harden,,,
curry, klay, dray
zion, ingram, lonzo
ja
luka, porzingis

it's the first names that come to mind. if you have to think about it,,,it ain't him. in other words, the smell test

Klay definitely isnt the leader of the warriors so how do you explain that

[PistolPeteJR]

Jrue Holiday is definitely a star wtf.

He's a really good player, but he's also only made one all-star game. Now I know he arguably could/should have made a couple more but it's absolutely reasonable for someone to not consider a player that hasn't made an all-star team in 8 years a "star"

Sent from my MAR-LX3A using RealGM mobile app

Personally I don’t consider Jrue a star, but just below that. Not sure what to label him though...maybe a “bonafide prime starter”.

[OdomFan]

Jrue Holiday is definitely a star wtf.

He's a really good player, but he's also only made one all-star game. Now I know he arguably could/should have made a couple more but it's absolutely reasonable for someone to not consider a player that hasn't made an all-star team in 8 years a "star"

Sent from my MAR-LX3A using RealGM mobile app

Personally I don’t consider Jrue a star, but just below that. Not sure what to label him though...maybe a “bonafide prime starter”.

How about this?

Superstar Caliber
All Star Caliber
Starter Roleplayer Caliber
Bench Roleplayer Caliber
Reserve Caliber

I'd put Jrue at Starter roleplayer caliber.

[Roger Murdock]

Star - good enough to be the best player on a playoff team

Superstar - Good enough to be the best player on a title team or good enough to carry a bad team into the playoffs and still be a threat to win series

[Lalouie]

a star is someone people talk about.

i don't think advanced metrics come into play here, at which point we would start diddling about specifics when the question posed is generic in nature. in the case of movies, a star carries the film - he has a responsibility to lead. good movie, bad movie, good "actor" bad "actor", it doesn't matter. good or bad doesn't define a star. that's an assessment of quality.

so a star in basketball has to be a leader of the team. and i'd leave it at that. whoever is leading the team,,,that's the star. after you round up that group, you parse it however you want. good star, stat stuffer stars , mega stars, all stars, overrated underrated, non winners,

lebron, ad
westbrook, harden,,,
curry, klay, dray
zion, ingram, lonzo
ja
luka, porzingis

it's the first names that come to mind. if you have to think about it,,,it ain't him. in other words, the smell test

Klay definitely isnt the leader of the warriors so how do you explain that

klay straddles the line but he IS the name you hear nd he is part of the trio. however there are probably many who would say he is not a star on gsw, so erase him if you want