Bam Adebayo vs Domantas Sabonis

[GeorgeMarcus]

Discuss

[bondom34]

I'll note polls and topics don't often align in terms of responses, but as a Domas fan I'll say Bam by a small but clear margin.

Better defender and a bit more versatile to me. Though I will say I think Sabonis's defense is underrated and Bam's offense a little underrated.

[Johnny Firpo]

They are equal right now, Bam probably has a higher ceiling though due to his superiour athleticism and wingspan. I will say this though, if by some miracle, Sabonis becomes a good three point shooter, all bets are off.

[Rapcity_11]

Give me Bam because he's a million times easier to fit into an elite team. It's tough to even construct a realistic elite team featuring Domantas because of his role on offense and defense.

[mademan]

Indy is gonna have problems long term fitting Sabonis with Turner. Those problems would not exist with Bam, imo.

[Fadeaway_J]

I'd go Bam. To me his defensive advantage matters most in a comparison between 5s, and it's not like he's unskilled offensively.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I believe it's very close, hence posting this thread, but I'm gonna go against the grain. Sabonis really draws a short stick when it comes to public perception, and I suspect it's due to a few reasons. For one he's been paired with Turner at times which negatively impacts both of their production. Second, he also came off the bench for a while, which I think led people to believe he was worse than Turner. In reality it was a matter of staggering their best offensive weapons and having a reliable catalyst to anchor the 2nd unit (similar to Ginobli in that respect). Third I think because he's white people really, really underrate his defense (which bondom already mentioned). Or maybe it has nothing to do with being white and again comes down to his stint as 6th man. I think people are quick to label productive bench bigs as defensive liabilities to justify why their stats haven't earned them a place in the starting lineup. I call that the Kanter bias (which in Kanter's case is actually true).

Bam's defensive versatility is hugely valuable, but on offense he offers no spacing (even less so than Sabonis who is expanding that part of his game). Bam can create better off the dribble, but Sabonis can facilitate out of the post more effectively, similar to Jokic or his father. Sabonis is a much more polished scorer, slightly better rebounder, and good enough defender to maintain a small but clear advantage overall IMO. I do agree that Bam has a higher ceiling though.

[rate_]

I believe it's very close, hence posting this thread, but I'm gonna go against the grain. Sabonis really draws a short stick when it comes to public perception, and I suspect it's due to a few reasons. For one he's been paired with Turner at times which negatively impacts both of their production. Second, he also came off the bench for a while, which I think led people to believe he was worse than Turner. In reality it was a matter of staggering their best offensive weapons and having a reliable catalyst to anchor the 2nd unit (similar to Ginobli in that respect). Third I think because he's white people really, really underrate his defense (which bondom already mentioned). Or maybe it has nothing to do with being white and again comes down to his stint as 6th man. I think people are quick to label productive bench bigs as defensive liabilities to justify why their stats haven't earned them a place in the starting lineup. I call that the Kanter bias (which in Kanter's case is actually true).

Bam's defensive versatility is hugely valuable, but on offense he offers no spacing (even less so than Sabonis who is expanding that part of his game). Bam can create better off the dribble, but Sabonis can facilitate out of the post more effectively, similar to Jokic or his father. Sabonis is a much more polished scorer, slightly better rebounder, and good enough defender to maintain a small but clear advantage overall IMO. I do agree that Bam has a higher ceiling though.

Bam has great shot mechanics even though he isn’t a shooter yet, which lends to believe he will probably get better in that area, better at getting to the line at will which is indicative of a good scorer, and is a better scorer off the dribble. His first step is pretty good. Bam is a better scorer than you give him credit for besides the lack of long range shooting. Also has decent footwork in the post.

You can tell who actually watches Bam here and who doesn’t.

[SA37]

I think Bam’s athleticism and versatility make him seem more appealing to most fans, but I’d take Sabonis if I had to choose between them. To me, Sabonis is one of the best PFs in the game. He has great moves, has enough range to force the defense to be honest, and is a heck of a passer. Great bball IQ. He’s a solid defender, but you won’t see him make any all-NBA defensive teams.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

As a Heat fan I'm happy with Bam here. Invaluable defensive piece (versatile defensive bigs like him are perhaps the rarest commodity in basketball), still a lot of upside, much more portable and he's the most skilled player in the NBA as evidenced by his winning the Skills Challenge

[GeorgeMarcus]

I believe it's very close, hence posting this thread, but I'm gonna go against the grain. Sabonis really draws a short stick when it comes to public perception, and I suspect it's due to a few reasons. For one he's been paired with Turner at times which negatively impacts both of their production. Second, he also came off the bench for a while, which I think led people to believe he was worse than Turner. In reality it was a matter of staggering their best offensive weapons and having a reliable catalyst to anchor the 2nd unit (similar to Ginobli in that respect). Third I think because he's white people really, really underrate his defense (which bondom already mentioned). Or maybe it has nothing to do with being white and again comes down to his stint as 6th man. I think people are quick to label productive bench bigs as defensive liabilities to justify why their stats haven't earned them a place in the starting lineup. I call that the Kanter bias (which in Kanter's case is actually true).

Bam's defensive versatility is hugely valuable, but on offense he offers no spacing (even less so than Sabonis who is expanding that part of his game). Bam can create better off the dribble, but Sabonis can facilitate out of the post more effectively, similar to Jokic or his father. Sabonis is a much more polished scorer, slightly better rebounder, and good enough defender to maintain a small but clear advantage overall IMO. I do agree that Bam has a higher ceiling though.

Bam has great shot mechanics even though he isn’t a shooter yet, which lends to believe he will probably get better in that area, better at getting to the line at will which is indicative of a good scorer, and is a better scorer off the dribble. His first step is pretty good. Bam is a better scorer than you give him credit for besides the lack of long range shooting. Also has decent footwork in the post.

You can tell who actually watches Bam here and who doesn’t.

I've watched Bam quite a bit actually, if that's who you're referring to. Which part of my post did you disagree with besides the conclusion? I even mentioned his off the dribble creation.

[Rapcity_11]

I believe it's very close, hence posting this thread, but I'm gonna go against the grain. Sabonis really draws a short stick when it comes to public perception, and I suspect it's due to a few reasons. For one he's been paired with Turner at times which negatively impacts both of their production. Second, he also came off the bench for a while, which I think led people to believe he was worse than Turner. In reality it was a matter of staggering their best offensive weapons and having a reliable catalyst to anchor the 2nd unit (similar to Ginobli in that respect). Third I think because he's white people really, really underrate his defense (which bondom already mentioned). Or maybe it has nothing to do with being white and again comes down to his stint as 6th man. I think people are quick to label productive bench bigs as defensive liabilities to justify why their stats haven't earned them a place in the starting lineup. I call that the Kanter bias (which in Kanter's case is actually true).

Bam's defensive versatility is hugely valuable, but on offense he offers no spacing (even less so than Sabonis who is expanding that part of his game). Bam can create better off the dribble, but Sabonis can facilitate out of the post more effectively, similar to Jokic or his father. Sabonis is a much more polished scorer, slightly better rebounder, and good enough defender to maintain a small but clear advantage overall IMO. I do agree that Bam has a higher ceiling though.

I don't think the rep is that Sabonis is a poor defender. His rep is that you need to pair him with a rim protector and he can't be a full-time 5 defensively.

And the impact stats seem to back this up.

With Sabonis ON and Turner OFF, the Pacers Drtg is 109.0, which is 5.4 points worse than when they play together.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think Bam's offense isn't really threatening yet. He's an opportunist, capable of making the right pass for a dime but not those table-setter passes that the better offensive hubs have. Basically I think he can be scouted out of a series on offense and relegated to garbageman duty. His skills are all there, they just don't form a fluid player. So, he's scratching the surface. But his defense is good enough that he'd be more valuable to most teams.

Sabonis is more of a complete picture. It's hard to see one more level out of him, whereas with Bam it's quite easy.

[cupcakesnake]

I kind of feel like saying Doma, but I think I'm feeling contrarian because Bam got so hyped all year and Doma had his contributions diminished due to his playstyle/player type.

I've been a huge fan of both of these guys, Sabonis since his college years (I just really wanted the son of Arvydas to thrive), and Bam since I first saw him switch a pick & roll and realize what a defensive asset he was going to be.

My little pro-Domas breakdown:
- These guys have had such similar numbers and roles on similarly ranked teams, it's a bit much how wide the disparity in their popularity has become. Miami won 2 more games than Indiana. Sabonis was widely perceived as Indiana's best player (with Oladipo out) and Bam has an argument, though I think most people would have Butler in that role. On/off would indicate Sabonis being more singularly important to Indiana's success, but both players grade out well in this way.
- They were both "point centers" playing next to floor generals in Butler and Brogdon, but watching the games, I have a hard time accepting them as equal passers, despite the similar assist numbers. Sabonis' ability to find cutters, activate off-ball shooters and throw unexpected passes is so impressive. Bam's a good passer too, but I'm way more impressed by the degree of difficult passes by Sabonis and the exhibited feel for the game.
- People talk about Bam being a center, and Sabonis forced to play power forward due to his inability to protect the rim, but both these guys were pretty much 50/50 at both positions, with Domas being the one who played more center overall. For 60% of his minutes, Bam was paired with Meyers Leonard or Kelly Olynyk types as the nominal center, where Domas started next to Myles Turner and sometimes Goga.
- I've seen people say Bam is better off the dribble but I don't agree. Bam is way more explosive, so he gets all these face-up dunks and steals leading to transition dunks, but Sabonis has way better handles combined with the actual ability to regularly take pull ups. I think Bam is going to be a good shooter, but right not Sabonis can do things off the dribble that Bam doesn't have in his game. Pocket passes, step backs, one handed passes to cutters... Bam is still mostly operating off athleticism while his skills catch up.
- Nobody thinks Doma is on the same level as Bam as a defender, but he's not bad. His short arms prevent him from being a rim protector, but he's crafty and has decent feet. I'm sure he can be exploited in certain matchups, but this regular season he simply wasn't. Good feet, smart hands. The Pacers actually boasted a strong regular season defense than the Heat, despite the Heat having flashier personnel(Bam, Butler, DJJ and random 10-20 game contributions from Winslow, Iggy, Crowder, Hill) and the Pacers losing Oladipo and playing all their wing minutes to TJ Warren and Doug McDermott.

My even littler pro-Bam breakdown:
- He's a rim protector that can switch onto anyone player in the NBA. Everything he does on offense is secondary to this enormously valuable skill. Having a defender at that level who also bring offensive versatility is such a huge advantage compared to anything Sabonis has in his wheelhouse.

Someone made "point center" videos for both of them, and they're super fun to watch. I think they also highlight Bam's athleticism advantage, and Domas's size and skill advantage.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

;t=96s

[rate_]

You can say Sabonis have better footwork overall, especially with his tendency of spin moves, but Bam has way better handles. It’s not even close. Bam handles look much more fluid than Sabonis. Guard-like.

And stop undervaluing Bam as a skill-based ability. Everything he does is not based off athleticism. He’s no DeAndre Jordan.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I believe it's very close, hence posting this thread, but I'm gonna go against the grain. Sabonis really draws a short stick when it comes to public perception, and I suspect it's due to a few reasons. For one he's been paired with Turner at times which negatively impacts both of their production. Second, he also came off the bench for a while, which I think led people to believe he was worse than Turner. In reality it was a matter of staggering their best offensive weapons and having a reliable catalyst to anchor the 2nd unit (similar to Ginobli in that respect). Third I think because he's white people really, really underrate his defense (which bondom already mentioned). Or maybe it has nothing to do with being white and again comes down to his stint as 6th man. I think people are quick to label productive bench bigs as defensive liabilities to justify why their stats haven't earned them a place in the starting lineup. I call that the Kanter bias (which in Kanter's case is actually true).

Bam's defensive versatility is hugely valuable, but on offense he offers no spacing (even less so than Sabonis who is expanding that part of his game). Bam can create better off the dribble, but Sabonis can facilitate out of the post more effectively, similar to Jokic or his father. Sabonis is a much more polished scorer, slightly better rebounder, and good enough defender to maintain a small but clear advantage overall IMO. I do agree that Bam has a higher ceiling though.

I don't think the rep is that Sabonis is a poor defender. His rep is that you need to pair him with a rim protector and he can't be a full-time 5 defensively.

And the impact stats seem to back this up.

With Sabonis ON and Turner OFF, the Pacers Drtg is 109.0, which is 5.4 points worse than when they play together.

Well it depends on how you define a 5 defensively, because Domas guards opposing Cs even with Turner on the court. Where he falters a bit is as a rim protector, which is Turner's greatest strength. That's why I would love to see Sabonis with a rim protecting 4 like Jonathan Isaac. His fit with Turner is "ok" but Turner is better suited to guard 5s and function as rim protector.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I kind of feel like saying Doma, but I think I'm feeling contrarian because Bam got so hyped all year and Doma had his contributions diminished due to his playstyle/player type.

I've been a huge fan of both of these guys, Sabonis since his college years (I just really wanted the son of Arvydas to thrive), and Bam since I first saw him switch a pick & roll and realize what a defensive asset he was going to be.

My little pro-Domas breakdown:
- These guys have had such similar numbers and roles on similarly ranked teams, it's a bit much how wide the disparity in their popularity has become. Miami won 2 more games than Indiana. Sabonis was widely perceived as Indiana's best player (with Oladipo out) and Bam has an argument, though I think most people would have Butler in that role. On/off would indicate Sabonis being more singularly important to Indiana's success, but both players grade out well in this way.
- They were both "point centers" playing next to floor generals in Butler and Brogdon, but watching the games, I have a hard time accepting them as equal passers, despite the similar assist numbers. Sabonis' ability to find cutters, activate off-ball shooters and throw unexpected passes is so impressive. Bam's a good passer too, but I'm way more impressed by the degree of difficult passes by Sabonis and the exhibited feel for the game.
- People talk about Bam being a center, and Sabonis forced to play power forward due to his inability to protect the rim, but both these guys were pretty much 50/50 at both positions, with Domas being the one who played more center overall. For 60% of his minutes, Bam was paired with Meyers Leonard or Kelly Olynyk types as the nominal center, where Domas started next to Myles Turner and sometimes Goga.
- I've seen people say Bam is better off the dribble but I don't agree. Bam is way more explosive, so he gets all these face-up dunks and steals leading to transition dunks, but Sabonis has way better handles combined with the actual ability to regularly take pull ups. I think Bam is going to be a good shooter, but right not Sabonis can do things off the dribble that Bam doesn't have in his game. Pocket passes, step backs, one handed passes to cutters... Bam is still mostly operating off athleticism while his skills catch up.
- Nobody thinks Doma is on the same level as Bam as a defender, but he's not bad. His short arms prevent him from being a rim protector, but he's crafty and has decent feet. I'm sure he can be exploited in certain matchups, but this regular season he simply wasn't. Good feet, smart hands. The Pacers actually boasted a strong regular season defense than the Heat, despite the Heat having flashier personnel(Bam, Butler, DJJ and random 10-20 game contributions from Winslow, Iggy, Crowder, Hill) and the Pacers losing Oladipo and playing all their wing minutes to TJ Warren and Doug McDermott.

My even littler pro-Bam breakdown:
- He's a rim protector that can switch onto anyone player in the NBA. Everything he does on offense is secondary to this enormously valuable skill. Having a defender at that level who also bring offensive versatility is such a huge advantage compared to anything Sabonis has in his wheelhouse.

Someone made "point center" videos for both of them, and they're super fun to watch. I think they also highlight Bam's athleticism advantage, and Domas's size and skill advantage.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

;t=96s

A+ analysis sir

[GeorgeMarcus]

You can say Sabonis have better footwork overall, but Bam has way better handles. It’s not even close. Bam handles look much more fluid than Sabonis. Guard-like.

I agree with you and didn't mean to insinuate otherwise if I did. Facilitating out of the post relies more on a read-and-react passing game than dribble creation.

[Rapcity_11]

I believe it's very close, hence posting this thread, but I'm gonna go against the grain. Sabonis really draws a short stick when it comes to public perception, and I suspect it's due to a few reasons. For one he's been paired with Turner at times which negatively impacts both of their production. Second, he also came off the bench for a while, which I think led people to believe he was worse than Turner. In reality it was a matter of staggering their best offensive weapons and having a reliable catalyst to anchor the 2nd unit (similar to Ginobli in that respect). Third I think because he's white people really, really underrate his defense (which bondom already mentioned). Or maybe it has nothing to do with being white and again comes down to his stint as 6th man. I think people are quick to label productive bench bigs as defensive liabilities to justify why their stats haven't earned them a place in the starting lineup. I call that the Kanter bias (which in Kanter's case is actually true).

Bam's defensive versatility is hugely valuable, but on offense he offers no spacing (even less so than Sabonis who is expanding that part of his game). Bam can create better off the dribble, but Sabonis can facilitate out of the post more effectively, similar to Jokic or his father. Sabonis is a much more polished scorer, slightly better rebounder, and good enough defender to maintain a small but clear advantage overall IMO. I do agree that Bam has a higher ceiling though.

I don't think the rep is that Sabonis is a poor defender. His rep is that you need to pair him with a rim protector and he can't be a full-time 5 defensively.

And the impact stats seem to back this up.

With Sabonis ON and Turner OFF, the Pacers Drtg is 109.0, which is 5.4 points worse than when they play together.

Well it depends on how you define a 5 defensively, because Domas guards opposing Cs even with Turner on the court. Where he falters a bit is as a rim protector, which is Turner's greatest strength. That's why I would love to see Sabonis with a rim protecting 4 like Jonathan Isaac. His fit with Turner is "ok" but Turner is better suited to guard 5s and function as rim protector.

True, what I really is a rim protecting big. And finding a rim protecting big who can space the floor is very difficult.

Isaac would fit well defensively, but wouldn't be great offensively since Isaac has very little gravity.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I don't think the rep is that Sabonis is a poor defender. His rep is that you need to pair him with a rim protector and he can't be a full-time 5 defensively.

And the impact stats seem to back this up.

With Sabonis ON and Turner OFF, the Pacers Drtg is 109.0, which is 5.4 points worse than when they play together.

Well it depends on how you define a 5 defensively, because Domas guards opposing Cs even with Turner on the court. Where he falters a bit is as a rim protector, which is Turner's greatest strength. That's why I would love to see Sabonis with a rim protecting 4 like Jonathan Isaac. His fit with Turner is "ok" but Turner is better suited to guard 5s and function as rim protector.

True, what I really is a rim protecting big. And finding a rim protecting big who can space the floor is very difficult.

Isaac would fit well defensively, but wouldn't be great offensively since Isaac has very little gravity.

Isaac shoots 3s at a similar clip to Turner, albeit on slightly lower volume. I think it would work fine as long as they're paired with a couple legit threats from deep. It's not like Sabonis is Rudy Gobert when it comes to spacing.