Poll: Would you put Shawn Green among the top 25 most talented Blue Jays of all time?

Post #1 » by **Double Helix** » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:05 pm

See poll.

agkagk · Post #2 » by **agkagk** » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:29 pm

Christian yelich really reminds me of him.

Post #3 » by **Double Helix** » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:22 pm

agkagk wrote:Christian yelich really reminds me of him.

Agreed. Though I seem to remember Green’s arm being better overall. Not that Yelich’s is bad or anything.

rarefind · Post #4 » by **rarefind** » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:06 pm

Talented or impact?

wamco · Post #5 » by **wamco** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:27 am

Didn’t his breakout coincide with being canseco roommate?

SharoneWright · Post #6 » by **SharoneWright** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:35 am

wamco wrote:Didn’t his breakout coincide with being canseco roommate?

Nah, it coincided with me barking at him out of the RF seats to get his head out of his a@@ and live up to his potential. Immediate hitting streak and the rest was history!

It happened. :blank:

Fairview4Life · Post #7 » by **Fairview4Life** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:30 pm

SharoneWright wrote:
wamco wrote:Didn’t his breakout coincide with being canseco roommate?

Nah, it coincided with me barking at him out of the RF seats to get his head out of his a@@ and live up to his potential. Immediate hitting streak and the rest was history! :D 8-) :nod: It happened. :blank:

Really feel like you should have used your powers for something bigger.

SharoneWright · Post #8 » by **SharoneWright** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:19 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
SharoneWright wrote:
wamco wrote:Didn’t his breakout coincide with being canseco roommate?

Nah, it coincided with me barking at him out of the RF seats to get his head out of his a@@ and live up to his potential. Immediate hitting streak and the rest was history! It happened.

Really feel like you should have used your powers for something bigger.

Shawn might disagree! But I'm working on it. Been in a bit of a dry spell since then.

bballsparkin · Post #9 » by **bballsparkin** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:08 am

I feel like he is not. The Jays have had so many talented players. He had some great seasons though so,...maybe. Abstaining from voting at this point.

Skin Blues · Post #10 » by **Skin Blues** » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:03 am

I think so. Only 10 Blue Jays hitters have ever put up 6 WAR in a season for us. And he was even better for a period of time after that in LA.

JN · Post #11 » by JN » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:28 pm

Well he was better than Raul Mondesi.

Randle McMurphy · Post #12 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:56 pm

Top 25? More like top 10.

The_Hater · Post #13 » by **The_Hater** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:52 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:Top 25? More like top 10.

Debatable considering the best part of his career took place in LA. He had 1 allstar caliber seasons in TO and 4 other solid starter seasons. Being a negative defender at a corner OF spot doesn’t gain him extra points either.

I’m pretty sure I could come up with 10 Jay careers that were superior including a few of his contemporaries, Halladay and Delgado for sure, likely Clemens and Olerud and possibly Hentgen as well.

He probably rates worse if we take into account his entire career because then you’re including the entire careers for Morris, Molitor, Winfield, Henderson, Cone, Kent, Carpenter Rolen, and other all time greats.

JN · Post #14 » by JN » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:45 pm

In terms of career value amongst batters he is #21 in WAR. I think the top 10 on the list are clearly ahead of him -- then I would say George Bell, Fred McGriff and Josh Donaldson would clearly be ahead of him. So amongst batters the discussion is somewhere between #14 and #20.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/leaders_bat_50.shtml

In terms of peak seasons, which is also a good indicator of talent he does have the 9th best WAR amongst Jays. (counting the best year only)
1. Bautista 2011
2. Olerud 1993
3. Barfield 1986
4. Delgado 2000
5. Moseby 1984
6. Donaldson 2016
7. Alomar 1992
8. McGriff 1989
9. Green 1999

The above does not include pitchers. If we add pitchers his career WAR is actually #31 in the organization.
In terms of the 13 batters I clearly put above of Green, I would add the following 7 pitchers -- Stieb, Halladay, Key, Hentgen, Guzman, Clemens and Henke.
In terms of single season peak WAR, Clemens, Halladay, Hentgen, Stieb, Key, Eichorn, Guzman had better peak seasons. So he would be #16 for highest single season WAR.

I would probably have Green somewhere between #21 and #25 overall-- it comes down to guys like Rios, Hill, Clancy, Gruber, Stewart, Green for those spots.

JN · Post #15 » by JN » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:49 pm

As an aside, that 1986 season by Mark Eichorn is one of the hidden gems in Blue Jays History. What a season.

69 relief games - 157 innings!!!. An ERA of 1.72
166K's
WHIP of 0.96
7.3 WAR
14 Wins out of the Pen.

It's unfathomable to imagine a reliever getting that type of workload today.

Randle McMurphy · Post #16 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:Top 25? More like top 10.

Debatable considering the best part of his career took place in LA. He had 1 allstar caliber seasons in TO and 4 other solid starter seasons. Being a negative defender at a corner OF spot doesn’t gain him extra points either.

I’m pretty sure I could come up with 10 Jay careers that were superior including a few of his contemporaries, Halladay and Delgado for sure, likely Clemens and Olerud and possibly Hentgen as well.

He probably rates worse if we take into account his entire career because then you’re including the entire careers for Morris, Molitor, Winfield, Henderson, Cone, Kent, Carpenter Rolen, and other all time greats.

I wouldn't quibble with you if we were talking about careers (Green isn't close to top 10 in that regard), but if we're talking pure talent (which is obviously quite subjective), he's up there. I think he underachieved for most of his time in MLB but he was a great hitter at his peak.

The_Hater · Post #17 » by **The_Hater** » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:40 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:Top 25? More like top 10.

Debatable considering the best part of his career took place in LA. He had 1 allstar caliber seasons in TO and 4 other solid starter seasons. Being a negative defender at a corner OF spot doesn’t gain him extra points either.

I’m pretty sure I could come up with 10 Jay careers that were superior including a few of his contemporaries, Halladay and Delgado for sure, likely Clemens and Olerud and possibly Hentgen as well.

He probably rates worse if we take into account his entire career because then you’re including the entire careers for Morris, Molitor, Winfield, Henderson, Cone, Kent, Carpenter Rolen, and other all time greats.

I wouldn't quibble with you if we were talking about careers (Green isn't close to top 10 in that regard), but if we're talking pure talent (which is obviously quite subjective), he's up there. I think he underachieved for most of his time in MLB but he was a great hitter at his peak.

That’s fair. Green was a huge talent. His career almost seems underwhelming for what it could have been.