More Athletic? Dennis Rodman or Shawn Kemp

[Duke4life831]

Ya honestly dont see the argument for Rodman here. Rodman had a better career, for as crazy as he was off the court, the dude's motor and defensive IQ was off the charts and he was a hell of an athlete himself.

But Kemp was just a freak athletically. When you think of the greatest athletes to play the 4, his name is going to be right up near the top. Agile, fast, quick and explosive as hell.

[vagelis]

Rodman had better motor but Kemp clearly was a better athlete in my opinion

[Black Jack]

I'm taking the only guy in league history who could legit guard Shaq AND quick elite point guards. The guy who had so much energy he would ride an exercise bike on the sidelines.

[frica]

I read something about the athletic team begging for Rodman to run the 400m, but was never able to find sources.
Does anyone know more about that?

[Bergmaniac]

I read something about the athletic team begging for Rodman to run the 400m, but was never able to find sources.
Does anyone know more about that?

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/06/dennis-rodman-basketball-legacy-north-korea-draymond-green-warriors

Bill Laimbeer remembers being shocked by Rodman’s athleticism. “I always thought Dennis would have been an Olympic champion in the 220 or the hurdles,” says Laimbeer. “I’ve never seen a basketball player faster than Dennis. He had a gear, like a Carl Lewis or Usain Bolt, where all of sudden he kicks it in and everyone was left in the dust.” According to Mike Abdenour, the Pistons trainer at the time, Chuck Daly actually suggested to Rodman that he go to the U.S. track and field qualifiers. “Chuck said, 'Maybe you should go qualify for the 400,” says Abdenour. “There’s no doubt in my mind that with that stride length he could have done it. He had tremendous acceleration.”

[TurinTurambar]

I feel like so much about Dennis is so overblown at this point.

Yes, he had otherworldly stamina, and yes, he was stronger than he looked. This idea that anyone would seriously think he could have basically moonlighted as an Olympic track athlete based on what was almost certainly an offhand comment by Chuck Daly, or the proclamations of Bill Laimbeer, is pretty ridiculous. Like, just watch a video of him running up and down the court, and then go watch the guys Laimbeer mentioned run.

With Shawn, someone earlier in the thread mentioned he was like a Power Forward Vince Carter, and that's apt. I've yet to see a guy that big just move so fluidly, he really looked like a guard or a wing. He's just one of the better athletes in the history of the league.

[KrAzY3]

I feel like so much about Dennis is so overblown at this point.

I guess part of it is the movement to hype people that played with Michael Jordan. Rodman was never anything more than the third best player on a contender, and while he might have had a lot of energy he also sometimes looked like a puppy figuring out how to use its legs. Case in point, I just randomly clicked on a Rodman highlight video. First rebound, he loses the ball. Second rebound, he manages to stumble out of bounds despite the fact it required several steps.

This guy who Laimbeer and Daly are talking about spent a big chunk of his time with the Pistons coming off the bench, and that's arguably the most balanced Rodman. Sure he's an all time great 6th man, but no one in their right mind would have entertained the notion of Rodman over a prime Kemp. I know we're talking athleticism here, but I'm not sure how much people are talking about the legend of Rodman or the guy who actually played basketball.

[Ron Swanson]

It's Kemp and this is a pretty silly comparison. No amount of "stamina and motor" is going to bridge the gap here. Rodman simply wasn't physically capable of being as freakish an athlete as prime Kemp, and it wasn't just because of "dunking".

[Mogspan]

Nah, not getting behind the “Rodman is the real answer” here. Kemp is one of the most incredible physical specimens to ever play the game. He wasn’t just a leaper. His speed, quickness, strength and agility were off the charts as well.

MJ, Isiah Thomas, and Phil Jackson have all said that Rodman is the best athlete they've ever met. Rodman had a superior career to Kemp despite being an addled drug fiend with no shooting talent whatsoever.

I wouldn't put that much weight on what they said, no one in their right mind would say that Rodman was a better athlete than MJ. I think people get lost in the moment sometimes, and tend to exaggerate things. Rodman was not a top 10 athlete during his playing days, MJ, Wilkins, Drexler, Kemp, Hill, Shaq, Carter, Kobe, McGrady, and D.Griffith were all more athletic players than Rodman ever was. The list is much longer than that. Rodman's legacy has become quite ridiculous on RealGM. He was a very good defensive player and rebounder, but there are people here that would probably take Rodman over McHale, and he was very even close to that good. Rodman was at best the 3rd best player on a championship team.

MJ himself said that - and he's one of the most toxically competitive humans of all time - so you should probably take his opinion on someone being his better seriously. Rodman was athletic enough to more than competently guard perimeter players and Shaquille O'Neal. He might be the only person ever to have been able to do such a thing. I honestly think defensive versatility in basketball is the ultimate test of athleticism. You have to be big, strong, quick, clever, lengthy, etc. He's the best rebounder ever sans Drummond at only 6' 7". He had incredible stamina and was able to play at an elite level later in his career while partying his brains out and without going to practice. You could argue that Kemp's greater coordination made him more skillful, but Rodman definitely has an argument as the superior pure athlete; his style just wasn't as aesthetically pleasing as a big-time dunker's. He probably wasn't as accomplished offensively as others because he didn't take the game seriously until he randomly grew about a foot in his twenties. Also, Rodman arguably was as important to those Pistons teams as Thomas or Dumars.

[Mogspan]

It's Kemp and this is a pretty silly comparison. No amount of "stamina and motor" is going to bridge the gap here. Rodman simply wasn't physically capable of being as freakish an athlete as prime Kemp, and it wasn't just because of "dunking".

Kemp wasn't physically capable of being the versatile defender that Rodman was or making the Hall of Fame despite greater shooting talent.

[Ron Swanson]

It's Kemp and this is a pretty silly comparison. No amount of "stamina and motor" is going to bridge the gap here. Rodman simply wasn't physically capable of being as freakish an athlete as prime Kemp, and it wasn't just because of "dunking".

Kemp wasn't physically capable of being the versatile defender that Rodman was or making the Hall of Fame despite greater shooting talent.

Saying that the reason Shawn Kemp isn't in the Hall of Fame is because of his physical deficiencies has to be up there with one of the most absurd statements I've ever heard. You can't honestly believe this.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, Shawn Kemp had 50 illegitimate children but he never slept with Madonna, so I have to give the nod to Rodman, who did.

[90sAllDecade]

I have Kemp here, but for those saying Rodman, can someone post something to support it?

Any past things he did atheltically or the interviews of people saying how good an athlete he was?

Open to cases but I haven't seen enough for me to say Rodman who was a very good athlete, but Kemp did seem elite in his playing days.

As was already mentioned in this thread, Phil Jackson considers Rodman he's ever coached. Kobe agreed with him. Jordan himself said Rodman was the best athlete he's ever seen.

Rodman had an incredible combination of elite strength for his size, ridiculous stamina (even when he was 35 he could play big minutes on a top team and be effective while partying till the early hours of the morning the previous night), maybe the best second jump ability in NBA history and great quickness and agility.

Thank you, I read the articles and this had more of the substance for an argument I was looking for.

I agree with the 'what do you define as athleticism', statements. Kemp was a more raw explosion, fast-twitch run and jump athlete when viewing his playstyle. Rodman was more stamina, endurance, strength, positioning, and agility from his game.

Perhaps like comparing an Olympic 100 meters and high jump athlete vs 400 meters and wrestling type.

I still think Kemp had a higher athletic peak, but I have a deeper respect for Rodman's athleticism after this thread. He was athletically elite in his developed ability and game.


To make this enjoyable, here are highlights from both players.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Mogspan]

It's Kemp and this is a pretty silly comparison. No amount of "stamina and motor" is going to bridge the gap here. Rodman simply wasn't physically capable of being as freakish an athlete as prime Kemp, and it wasn't just because of "dunking".

Kemp wasn't physically capable of being the versatile defender that Rodman was or making the Hall of Fame despite greater shooting talent.

Saying that the reason Shawn Kemp isn't in the Hall of Fame is because of his physical deficiencies has to be up there with one of the most absurd statements I've ever heard. You can't honestly believe this.

My point was just that Rodman is arguably more successful despite having less skill. Kemp was a spectacular athletic freak, but Rodman had some freakish athletic qualities himself that Kemp couldn't replicate. What prevented Kemp from earning DPOYs and being one of the best rebounders ever? The way Rodman played, his teams won.

[prophet_of_rage]

I don't understand how success is even part of this? Are we saying Chris Paul jumps higher than Levine because his team wins more?

Kemp was a higher more graceful leader. But in terms of raw physical output Rodman won in all the other categories.

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[Ron Swanson]

Kemp wasn't physically capable of being the versatile defender that Rodman was or making the Hall of Fame despite greater shooting talent.

Saying that the reason Shawn Kemp isn't in the Hall of Fame is because of his physical deficiencies has to be up there with one of the most absurd statements I've ever heard. You can't honestly believe this.

My point was just that Rodman is arguably more successful despite having less skill. Kemp was a spectacular athletic freak, but Rodman had some freakish athletic qualities himself that Kemp couldn't replicate. What prevented Kemp from earning DPOYs and being one of the best rebounders ever? The way Rodman played, his teams won.

I don't think anyone is really disputing this. My issue is this idea that defensive ability is an inherent measure of "athleticism". Is Draymond Green an incredible defender in part due to his length and athleticism? Sure. Did Reggie Evans' strength and athleticism help him be an elite rebounder? Yes. Does that mean either was arguably as good of an "athlete" as prime Amare Stoudemire? No, not even close.

[Mogspan]

Saying that the reason Shawn Kemp isn't in the Hall of Fame is because of his physical deficiencies has to be up there with one of the most absurd statements I've ever heard. You can't honestly believe this.

My point was just that Rodman is arguably more successful despite having less skill. Kemp was a spectacular athletic freak, but Rodman had some freakish athletic qualities himself that Kemp couldn't replicate. What prevented Kemp from earning DPOYs and being one of the best rebounders ever? The way Rodman played, his teams won.

I don't think anyone is really disputing this. My issue is this idea that defensive ability is an inherent measure of "athleticism". Is Draymond Green an incredible defender in part due to his length and athleticism? Sure. Did Reggie Evans' strength and athleticism help him be an elite rebounder? Yes. Does that mean either was arguably as good of an "athlete" as prime Amare Stoudemire? No, not even close.

Draymond's a monster athlete IMO. It just doesn't look like it because he is not super lean and doesn't dunk very often, but he's extremely agile for his position. Larry Bird was also a great athlete in his own way despite not looking the part. Defensive versatility might be a better test of athleticism than a decathlon. Your success as a defender in the NBA is more dependent on physical tools than your offensive prowess is.