nevetsov wrote:If we have up to the full $9m MLE to throw at a backup PG, I can guarantee we find someone to come fill that role.
Yep ... I agree with your previous post that we keep all the rights to Baynes, Saric, Carter, and accept the TO for Frank. Use the $9M to replace Okobo.
PG: Rubio / FA / Carter / Jerome SG: Booker / Bridges / Johnson /Jerome SF: Oubre/ Bridges / Johnson PF: Saric / Kaminsky / Johnson / Oubre / Bridges C: Ayton / Baynes / Kaminsky / Saric
Then we need to stay healthy and not have stupid suspensions
nevetsov wrote:If we have up to the full $9m MLE to throw at a backup PG, I can guarantee we find someone to come fill that role.
Yep ... I agree with your previous post that we keep all the rights to Baynes, Saric, Carter, and accept the TO for Frank. Use the $9M to replace Okobo.
PG: Rubio / FA / Carter / Jerome SG: Booker / Bridges / Johnson /Jerome SF: Oubre/ Bridges / Johnson PF: Saric / Kaminsky / Johnson / Oubre / Bridges C: Ayton / Baynes / Kaminsky / Saric
Then we need to stay healthy and not have stupid suspensions
Some of that will be determined by what these guys can get on the market. Like if some team wants to give Baynes a multi year deal around the MLE I'd have to let him walk, I'd be totally down paying him that or more for 1 season though. As long as Saric doesn't stink in Orlando I'd be cool offering him the QO but if some team gave him a sizeable deal I probably wouldn't match (and I'm higher on Dario than most posters). Same goes for Carter, I wouldn't pay much more than league minimum. Frank we'll see, no need to bring him back if both Baynes and Saric return if they leave then maybe.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
To me it makes more sense to retain Baynes, Saric, Kaminsky and Carter cap holds, and even if Saric and Carter bolt, head into next season with:
Baynes (bird rights), Kaminsky (TO), and $9m MLE to spend (and BAE)
Instead of:
removing all those players and try to replace them all with $22m. We'd have to blow the whole lot on a guy like Gallinari and that wouldn't solve our depth issues. Alternatively, I doubt we'd get enough quality with $22m that would equate to Baynes ($10m+), Frank ($5m) and a $9m guard.
Would definitely like to keep Baynes and Carters' option. For Saric, It depends upon what he shows in Orlando, Also, what he's willing to accept contractually. If he underperforms or still shows a lack of consistency, Then I would only retain him for his qualifying offer AND as a backup to a more productive starting level option. Perhaps behind Oubre, Or as a backup to any of Bertans/ Ibaka/ Milsap/ Jerami Grant/ Woods? I think he'd give us much greater depth off the bench. But not sure he'd accept that role though? IF he shows out well, I'd be willing to commit around 6-8 million per, Similar to that of Bjelicas' contract. Which would be more than fair given his production last season and general lack of consistency. Kaminsky is a decent option at 5 million also *( IF he shows out) otherwise I would maybe let him walk.
nevetsov wrote:If we have up to the full $9m MLE to throw at a backup PG, I can guarantee we find someone to come fill that role.
Yep ... I agree with your previous post that we keep all the rights to Baynes, Saric, Carter, and accept the TO for Frank. Use the $9M to replace Okobo.
PG: Rubio / FA / Carter / Jerome SG: Booker / Bridges / Johnson /Jerome SF: Oubre/ Bridges / Johnson PF: Saric / Kaminsky / Johnson / Oubre / Bridges C: Ayton / Baynes / Kaminsky / Saric
Then we need to stay healthy and not have stupid suspensions
If you take away the dupes from the above, and correcting for actual lineups, you have:
PG: Rubio / FA / Jerome SG: Booker / Carter SF: Bridges / Johnson PF: Oubre / Saric / Kaminsky C: Ayton / Baynes
We don't need both Saric and Kaminsky, since we start Oubre, unless we lose Baynes. But ditch one of those three and pick up a real backup SG for Booker instead. Go out and buy a SRP from Philly with the cash we got for trading a SRP away with TJ last year: use to add a third-string wing (3/2 or 2/3).
If we're talking draft economics, probably the best way to spend our FRP this year is on a young big who can capably back up Ayton. [Redacted to draft thread.]
FWIW, I think Cam Payne has a shot of making this roster this year and shouldn't be discounted, especially on a minimum salary. So I've got:
Frank Lee wrote:I just curious about how we are going to entice a decent back up PG with a whopping 15-18 mins a game? We going to cut Rubes minutes ? We going to promise the starting slot in a couple years ? Are we going to over pay some Vet to jump ship?? Frankly, the question really is WHY?
This will be a conservative off season IMO. Too much uncertainty floating about. When free agency hits, the PG crop's cream will will ink fast. In fact, I dont think many players are going to gamble with deals on tables. Ive seen a few names dangled about... but it will come down to timing, how much we spend on Baynes, and if we retain Saric. We wont be the only ones shopping for back up PGs, and most of the FAs have bird rights attached... last thing we need is to tie up bidding money on a player we dont get.
What FA hay and cap space we have to spread has to cover back up C, a PF, as well as a back up PG???? Just seems to me, the PG depth will be /is an economical move... they gave Payne a 2 yr deal for a reason. Jones nabbed him with Monty's approval as hes a much better facilitator than rockpounding Carter.. Its a 'remove the risk' move. It seemed so minor, yet it allows much more flexibility. I dont think we will even offer a deal to a FA PG. Not in the first go round anyway. And likely not after we draft one. I think they have solved their issues at this spot, and its just a matter of who they target in the draft.
Sorry boys, our money is better spent elsewhere.
You know that injuries are everywhere and a good backup PG could play 30 minutes per game next year for us. I would not be suprised.
And we can play Rubio and that PG together a few minutes per game. A lot of teams play with two PGs at the same time... there will be minutes available, that is for sure.
Someone like Reggie Jackson or Goran Dragic would be perfect, but those are gonna be expensive.
D.J. Augustin would be more realistic target, I like him. Baller on offense and good enough defensively.
He played under Monty (associate HC) during half season on the Thunder in 2015-16. That can be a factor.
DJ Augustine would definitely be nice! Depending upon what his pricetag is? I've also mentioned Shabazz Napier, As a cheaper alternative, If we plan to commit more money to a frontcourt big over a backcourt option. Now Augustine is definitely a better shooter, But again, For me, It just depends on his asking price ultimately. I would love Dragic back. But short of a big overpay, I don't think that he'd consider returning here. And for Reggie Jackson, I really love his size, athleticism, as well as his production this last season ( shot around 45% from three) And would prioritize him as the #1 target IF we could get him for our Biannual exception. Teague, as an option too, But at no more than 3-4 million tops. Otherwise, Yes. Augustine at a reasonable price.
nevetsov wrote:If we have up to the full $9m MLE to throw at a backup PG, I can guarantee we find someone to come fill that role.
Yep ... I agree with your previous post that we keep all the rights to Baynes, Saric, Carter, and accept the TO for Frank. Use the $9M to replace Okobo.
PG: Rubio / FA / Carter / Jerome SG: Booker / Bridges / Johnson /Jerome SF: Oubre/ Bridges / Johnson PF: Saric / Kaminsky / Johnson / Oubre / Bridges C: Ayton / Baynes / Kaminsky / Saric
Then we need to stay healthy and not have stupid suspensions
If you take away the dupes from the above, and correcting for actual lineups, you have:
PG: Rubio / FA / Jerome SG: Booker / Carter SF: Bridges / Johnson PF: Oubre / Saric / Kaminsky C: Ayton / Baynes
We don't need both Saric and Kaminsky, since we start Oubre, unless we lose Baynes. But ditch one of those three and pick up a real backup SG for Booker instead. Go out and buy a SRP from Philly with the cash we got for trading a SRP away with TJ last year: use to add a third-string wing (3/2 or 2/3).
If we're talking draft economics, probably the best way to spend our FRP this year is on a young big who can capably back up Ayton. [Redacted to draft thread.]
FWIW, I think Cam Payne has a shot of making this roster this year and shouldn't be discounted, especially on a minimum salary. So I've got:
The more I look at our situation, the more impressed I am by our flexibility.
I'd be reluctant to let Frank walk. He is more than serviceable at the PF or C spots and we need a reliable player to backup Ayton and Baynes or Oubre and Saric. I mean your talking just $5M for Frank. It just doesn't make sense to me. Our depth is at C/PF/SF and we are weak at the backups for PG and SG. Spend our MLE and picks to address that need.
nevetsov wrote:If we have up to the full $9m MLE to throw at a backup PG, I can guarantee we find someone to come fill that role.
Yep ... I agree with your previous post that we keep all the rights to Baynes, Saric, Carter, and accept the TO for Frank. Use the $9M to replace Okobo.
PG: Rubio / FA / Carter / Jerome SG: Booker / Bridges / Johnson /Jerome SF: Oubre/ Bridges / Johnson PF: Saric / Kaminsky / Johnson / Oubre / Bridges C: Ayton / Baynes / Kaminsky / Saric
Then we need to stay healthy and not have stupid suspensions
If you take away the dupes from the above, and correcting for actual lineups, you have:
PG: Rubio / FA / Jerome SG: Booker / Carter SF: Bridges / Johnson PF: Oubre / Saric / Kaminsky C: Ayton / Baynes
We don't need both Saric and Kaminsky, since we start Oubre, unless we lose Baynes. But ditch one of those three and pick up a real backup SG for Booker instead. Go out and buy a SRP from Philly with the cash we got for trading a SRP away with TJ last year: use to add a third-string wing (3/2 or 2/3).
If we're talking draft economics, probably the best way to spend our FRP this year is on a young big who can capably back up Ayton. [Redacted to draft thread.]
FWIW, I think Cam Payne has a shot of making this roster this year and shouldn't be discounted, especially on a minimum salary. So I've got:
The more I look at our situation, the more impressed I am by our flexibility.[/quote]
Great points man!
Agree that we don't need both Saric AND Kaminsky. And I'd hope we retain Baynes if possible ( no more than 10 million committed though). I think if we keep his rights, And some contending team offers him the full MLE, That's a fair price to consider bringing him back. Anything above that, I'd let him walk.
But ditch one of those three and pick up a real backup SG for Booker instead. Go out and buy a SRP from Philly with the cash we got for trading a SRP away with TJ last year: use to add a third-string wing (3/2 or 2/3).
I totally agree with this perspective in terms of cap/ contractual value. In the 2nd round I've come across a few really intriguing minimal cost considerations too. Those being: - Paul Reed ( for an oversized 3 role) similar to a more defense oriented Jerami Grant. I think he could compliment Oubre at the 4 nicely with his defense. But could also play some backup 4/5 too. OR if we don't take Vassell, But are looking for more of a versatile primary 2/3 compliment to backup Booker/ Bridges, Then I'd consider: - Elijah Hughes. ( a slightly smaller SG version of Oubre). Is explosive and a tenacious defender too. http://www.tankathon.com/players/elijah-hughes - Trevelin Queen. ( A Josh Richardson clone defensively, But with great shooting and ISO scoring ability too). Basically a cheaper version of Richardson. http://www.tankathon.com/players/trevelin-queen
If we're talking draft economics, probably the best way to spend our FRP this year is on a young big who can capably back up Ayton. [Redacted to draft thread.]
As mentioned in the draft thread, Very cost effective backup options with positional versatility. Both offer defense and a modicum of floor spacing too. - Jalen Smith. ( Optimal first choice with his shotblocking and 37% three point shooting). A young Serge Ibaka OR a PJ Brown ( offense) Larry Sanders ( defense) option that can play the 4/5. And can spend time as a backup center option too. http://www.tankathon.com/players/jalen-smith - Paul Reed. ( A very versatile defensive 4, in the mold of a young more defense oriented Jerami Grant/ Jonathan Isaac with Siakim potential IF he improves his shooting and ball handling skills. But I think he could be very versatile as a defender for us, And could guard 3-5 at times, And maybe even some 2s'. I'd love his compliment next to Oubre or Saric at the 4. And of course could play spot minutes at backup center. http://www.tankathon.com/players/paul-reed
FWIW, I think Cam Payne has a shot of making this roster this year and shouldn't be discounted, especially on a minimum salary. So I've got:
Not sure on Payne personally, As he's had multiple chances to stick in the nba, But has yet to succeed. His career nba stats also leave a lot to be desired too unfortunately. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/payneca01.html He averaged 6 points/ 1.8 rebounds/ 2.5 assists. And was only 33% from three and 77% from the line for his career. And even in his best season ( 2017) he only averaged 8 points/ 2 rebounds/ 4 assists in 23 minutes per game. But he is only costing us around 2 million, And I do think that they just brought him in to push Okbo and Carter during this time in Orlando as a last ditch effort to motivate them for measured improvement before they make decisions on them. But you never know? Maybe Payne shows out and will replace Okobo as our 3rd string guard? I wish him luck too. I just wouldn't put him before the potential of any guard choices discussed extensively, given his track record personally.
nevetsov wrote:If we have up to the full $9m MLE to throw at a backup PG, I can guarantee we find someone to come fill that role.
Yeah, likely as $$ might be tight.
I dont know the ins and outs of the cap game anymore... but if someone could really breakdown how much we can spend with the swirling options we have, it would be a plus 1 from me.
Can we trade Shank on draft day, then let the other team waive him? Do we get one MLE ? Do other teams get them too?
If Saric takes his QO, and we renounce Baynes, but with a nudge nudge wink wink for a 3 year MLE....then release Shank... where does that put us for a FA bid? Can we even do that? We might have to get used to a lesser Harry Giles, Ska Labissiere, or Caleb Swanigan signing if we cant offer up some coin. We need size. Id rather go young than old if we dont land a true upgrade to Saric (if he stays, and I hope so) ... Im still all in on Cheik.
And as far as playing 2 PGs together... didnt I hear somewhere we wanted a combo guard ? Most of the FAs arent big enough to be off guards. Payne and Carter arent.... nor is Augustin or Napier. Truly, the list of FA PGs we might be interested in and can realistically get is slim. (Give me Dragic or bust )
I dont get the apprehension of drafting one(PG) with the intention of immediate playing time. Jones will go for a cerebral player, a shooter, and if a PG, the ability to run an offense. He jumped on 4 yr players last yr, gambling on CamJo (paid off) and Jerome (not so much)... Does this sound more and more like Grant Riller will be on our board ? I'd play him over any of these marginal backups looking for jobs. That dude is a baller.
FWIW, I think Cam Payne has a shot of making this roster this year and shouldn't be discounted, especially on a minimum salary. So I've got:
Not sure on Payne personally, As he's had multiple chances to stick in the nba, But has yet to succeed. His career nba stats also leave a lot to be desired too unfortunately. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/payneca01.html He averaged 6 points/ 1.8 rebounds/ 2.5 assists. And was only 33% from three and 77% from the line for his career. And even in his best season ( 2017) he only averaged 8 points/ 2 rebounds/ 4 assists in 23 minutes per game. But he is only costing us around 2 million, And I do think that they just brought him in to push Okbo and Carter during this time in Orlando as a last ditch effort to motivate them for measured improvement before they make decisions on them. But you never know? Maybe Payne shows out and will replace Okobo as our 3rd string guard? I wish him luck too. I just wouldn't put him before the potential of any guard choices discussed extensively, given his track record personally.
I think a lot of people are missing the picture with Cam. No one picked him up this summer for good reason. But he spent time in China, and then at the end of last year he came back to America through the G-League, where, for the first time in his professional career in America, he shot the ball well, with volume. Cam played in the G-League occasionally during his first NBA tour but never shot well there, either - until this year.
Shooting is often the difference between being in and out of the league. Monty seems to think Cam has taken that leap forward that he needs to stick in the league. The simple truth is that if Cam can replicate his G-League shooting on the bigger stage, then we've got a solid player there. Let's find out.
If it turns out he still sucks, I'd look to add up to TWO vet guards in free agency, a 1 and a 2. In any case, we need four guards that can play.
FWIW, I think Cam Payne has a shot of making this roster this year and shouldn't be discounted, especially on a minimum salary. So I've got:
Not sure on Payne personally, As he's had multiple chances to stick in the nba, But has yet to succeed. His career nba stats also leave a lot to be desired too unfortunately. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/payneca01.html He averaged 6 points/ 1.8 rebounds/ 2.5 assists. And was only 33% from three and 77% from the line for his career. And even in his best season ( 2017) he only averaged 8 points/ 2 rebounds/ 4 assists in 23 minutes per game. But he is only costing us around 2 million, And I do think that they just brought him in to push Okbo and Carter during this time in Orlando as a last ditch effort to motivate them for measured improvement before they make decisions on them. But you never know? Maybe Payne shows out and will replace Okobo as our 3rd string guard? I wish him luck too. I just wouldn't put him before the potential of any guard choices discussed extensively, given his track record personally.
I think a lot of people are missing the picture with Cam. No one picked him up this summer for good reason. But he spent time in China, and then at the end of last year he came back to America through the G-League, where, for the first time in his professional career in America, he shot the ball well, with volume. Cam played in the G-League occasionally during his first NBA tour but never shot well there, either - until this year.
Shooting is often the difference between being in and out of the league. Monty seems to think Cam has taken that leap forward that he needs to stick in the league. The simple truth is that if Cam can replicate his G-League shooting on the bigger stage, then we've got a solid player there. Let's find out.
If it turns out he still sucks, I'd look to add up to TWO vet guards in free agency, a 1 and a 2. In any case, we need four guards that can play.
Very good points again man. I can be down with that. Personally though, I hope that they draft (* IF possible) Devin Vassell at 10, And then acquire an early 2nd for Paul Reed ( backup 3-5 defensive option. Lastly, draft or sign ( really late 2nd) or as a two way player) Sam Merrill in a sharpshooting Kennard role.
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Not sure on Payne personally, As he's had multiple chances to stick in the nba, But has yet to succeed. His career nba stats also leave a lot to be desired too unfortunately. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/payneca01.html He averaged 6 points/ 1.8 rebounds/ 2.5 assists. And was only 33% from three and 77% from the line for his career. And even in his best season ( 2017) he only averaged 8 points/ 2 rebounds/ 4 assists in 23 minutes per game. But he is only costing us around 2 million, And I do think that they just brought him in to push Okbo and Carter during this time in Orlando as a last ditch effort to motivate them for measured improvement before they make decisions on them. But you never know? Maybe Payne shows out and will replace Okobo as our 3rd string guard? I wish him luck too. I just wouldn't put him before the potential of any guard choices discussed extensively, given his track record personally.
I think a lot of people are missing the picture with Cam. No one picked him up this summer for good reason. But he spent time in China, and then at the end of last year he came back to America through the G-League, where, for the first time in his professional career in America, he shot the ball well, with volume. Cam played in the G-League occasionally during his first NBA tour but never shot well there, either - until this year.
Shooting is often the difference between being in and out of the league. Monty seems to think Cam has taken that leap forward that he needs to stick in the league. The simple truth is that if Cam can replicate his G-League shooting on the bigger stage, then we've got a solid player there. Let's find out.
If it turns out he still sucks, I'd look to add up to TWO vet guards in free agency, a 1 and a 2. In any case, we need four guards that can play.
Very good points again man. I can be down with that. Personally though, I hope that they draft (* IF possible) Devin Vassell at 10, And then acquire an early 2nd for Paul Reed ( backup 3-5 defensive option. Lastly, draft or sign ( really late 2nd) or as a two way player) Sam Merrill in a sharpshooting Kennard role.
Frank Lee wrote: Yessir... Unless something wonky happens and we move up considerably...AND one of the 3 bigs blows our shorts off in a work out... this years primary rook addition will be a PG. Perfect situation to groom one. He'll get minutes to earn/keep and be surrounded with quality players. I think you're right about Jerome, and he'll bounce back and forth in the G league with LeQ. Carter is good as gone as he'll seek certain minutes and a defined role. The Dawg will get some interest as the FA pool of PGs is pretty slim. But I dont think many vets will be clamoring to get here when there wont be but a handful of minutes available. Going to have to either overpay, or give out 3 yr deals to entice. Our money is best spent elsewhere.
So better get used to the notion we are forging onward with Rubio, a Rook, and Payne as PGs, and if that falters look for more Point Book( ) . But the rook will have every opportunity to run the second unit with 16+ minutes a night, and best case scene is an eventual Rubio replacement.
We'll have a selection of some quality youngsters. It will be a matter of who shines. There are guys with BBIQ, size/length (enough to be a combo or atleast play off of Book), and can shoot... that will fall to us at 10... I think those are the top qualities JJones will seek.
Do you have some PGs in mind you would like added? It's funny. I've always assumed and wanted Carter to remain but like you said, now that there is an option on Payne (who has a history with Monty) he may be the most likely candidate to return. Particularly if he has even a decent bubble performance.
The issue I have with all of these analyses is that all of our PGs - Ty, Cam, Carter, [Okobo], Lecque if you consider him a PG - are third stringers. Whomever we would draft at #10 would not be as good an NBA backup PG as any vet PG we could add - and let's be real. Odds are GREAT that none of the PGs available at #10 in this draft will be as good as Cam Payne next year.
This is what seems to escape most people. You can't go from a freshman producing okay stats for an okay college basketball team to the NBA and expect them to give you valuable rotation minutes. If you draft a PG at 10 and that PG isn't named Tyrese Haliburton, LaMelo Ball or Killian Hayes, you're drafting a third string point guard. We have no position more covered than third string point guard. You can't just wish for there to be a PG of the future available at #10. If one of those three falls to us, then fine, draft him. But of the dozen or so other PGs who will be available in this draft outside the lotto, I don't think anyone here can say with confidence who among them will be an NBA player two years down the line. I guess the one exception might be Grant Riller... if you want to trade down for him, that's fine.
But this thing with Cole Anthony and Kira Lewis, I mean... for point guards, there's a fine line between being a quality professional and right out of the league. Just a few percentage points on your three, a bad defensive matchup or an extra turnover every few games... I just think it's so, so hard to evaluate the PG's in a draft that I'm scared away and would rather focus on players who are easier to project. FWIW, I liked ALL of our current PGs (save Lecque) more than Cole Anthony coming out of the draft. I don't think there's anything "combo" to his game. Can't put him off ball. Carter is at least an NBA defender. I still think Ty will be able to shoot it. Think Kira's fast? Go look at college tape of Cam Payne and tell me he ain't as fast.
It's like drafting quarterbacks. You want a good one or a great one. A below-average PG is useless. And I don't see what makes Kira or Anthony good or great. All I know is, they clearly can't guard 4 of the 5 players on an NBA floor and they won't be as good as DJ Augustin or Goran Dragic or Shabazz freaking Napier next year so why bother??
I understand that. Unfortunately, there arent a lot of options on free agency. Teague, Clarkson, Augustine, Dunn, MCW, Napier, Wanamaker. Wanamaker and Napier are guys I like at or near the vet min. Teague, Clarkson and Augustine probably take them out of the power forward/Joe Harris market. Dunn and MCW dont offer what the second unit needs.
I think Hayes will be a project too, btw. I'm more convinced Lewis, Anthony or Riller will be able to produce relatively well early in their career. I think Lewis athleticism and defense will translate well. Anthony is a blue chip guy who has produced at every level and be perfect for a sixth man scoring guard role. Riller might be my favorite PG in the draft. Think he is exactly the kind of player they need but probably too early to take him.
I think the problem with the second unit is also more complicated than just bad guard play. They need scoring on the bench. Guys who can create and make shots. Need that in the back court but need it everywhere.
I would take Vassell over any of those guys btw. Comes down to what happens with Oubre. Think that dictates where they go in the draft and what their goals are in free agency.
WeekapaugGroove wrote:The 5 man lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, oubre, Ayton is a +20 net rating per 100 possessions this season. That's an absolutely elite number.
Simple question, why are so many here looking to break that up? Basketball is about finding player groups that work and when you do you should ride the **** out of it.
Side note it's shows how much flux the suns had in lineups this year when that group is the second highest 5 man lineup with 226 even with the ayton suspension. Rubio, Booker, oubre saric Baynes was top with 245 and they had a +6 net rating, not bad but no where close to that elite +20 number.
There are only a few misguided individuals that want to break up the 5 man lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Oubre, and Ayton.
To be fair Gambo continues to push the narrative that Oubre will be traded.
Guessing you're referring to me because I post Oubre centric trade ideas on the draft board. Tbh I'm split on Oubre. If he were a better/more efficient shooter I would be 100% in on paying him as a third guy.
nevetsov wrote:If we have up to the full $9m MLE to throw at a backup PG, I can guarantee we find someone to come fill that role.
Yeah, likely as $$ might be tight.
I dont know the ins and outs of the cap game anymore... but if someone could really breakdown how much we can spend with the swirling options we have, it would be a plus 1 from me.
Can we trade Shank on draft day, then let the other team waive him? Do we get one MLE ? Do other teams get them too?
If Saric takes his QO, and we renounce Baynes, but with a nudge nudge wink wink for a 3 year MLE....then release Shank... where does that put us for a FA bid? Can we even do that? We might have to get used to a lesser Harry Giles, Ska Labissiere, or Caleb Swanigan signing if we cant offer up some coin. We need size. Id rather go young than old if we dont land a true upgrade to Saric (if he stays, and I hope so) ... Im still all in on Cheik.
And as far as playing 2 PGs together... didnt I hear somewhere we wanted a combo guard ? Most of the FAs arent big enough to be off guards. Payne and Carter arent.... nor is Augustin or Napier. Truly, the list of FA PGs we might be interested in and can realistically get is slim. (Give me Dragic or bust )
I dont get the apprehension of drafting one(PG) with the intention of immediate playing time. Jones will go for a cerebral player, a shooter, and if a PG, the ability to run an offense. He jumped on 4 yr players last yr, gambling on CamJo (paid off) and Jerome (not so much)... Does this sound more and more like Grant Riller will be on our board ? I'd play him over any of these marginal backups looking for jobs. That dude is a baller.
I think it's pretty straightforward. We would have $22M if we renounce bird rights to all of our free agents and don't take the option on the Tank. So we would need to find replacements for Baynes, Saric, Tank, and Carter as well as a backup PG/SG with the $22M.
The alternative is we can re-sign any of our UFA under bird rights for any amount and re-sign our RFAs as well. We would still have $10M to offer as an MLE since we are over the cap but under the apron.
Edit: Teams that are over the cap either get the full $10M MLE or a reduced MLE $6M (if they are expected to be luxury tax payers).
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote: I think a lot of people are missing the picture with Cam. No one picked him up this summer for good reason. But he spent time in China, and then at the end of last year he came back to America through the G-League, where, for the first time in his professional career in America, he shot the ball well, with volume. Cam played in the G-League occasionally during his first NBA tour but never shot well there, either - until this year.
Shooting is often the difference between being in and out of the league. Monty seems to think Cam has taken that leap forward that he needs to stick in the league. The simple truth is that if Cam can replicate his G-League shooting on the bigger stage, then we've got a solid player there. Let's find out.
If it turns out he still sucks, I'd look to add up to TWO vet guards in free agency, a 1 and a 2. In any case, we need four guards that can play.
Very good points again man. I can be down with that. Personally though, I hope that they draft (* IF possible) Devin Vassell at 10, And then acquire an early 2nd for Paul Reed ( backup 3-5 defensive option. Lastly, draft or sign ( really late 2nd) or as a two way player) Sam Merrill in a sharpshooting Kennard role.
phx-suns.net has been all over Merrill for months. I'd give him a SL invite for sure... or is that winter league? There is no SL this year, is there?[/quote]
Yeah definitely! I just think that if we can get an elite Kennard level guard with solid size at 6'5 for only the price of a two way contract, We should absolutely go for it! And I absolutely salivate at the thought of a potential Vassell/ Merrill ELITE shooting ELITE defensive 2nd unit backcourt option. Then you potentially add a Paul Reed and maybe a Daniel Oturu defensively and for depth, And now our team has a very strong balance of potent offense and elite defense throughout positions 1-5, Which countless variations and potential switchability. I think that apart from drafting Vassell ( * IF he's there) at 10 and then purchasing one or two 2nds ( for depth), A trade back with Boston for the 17/ 30 or to Dallas for the 18/31 are the best options honestly.
I see our successful core of Rubio/ Booker/ Bridges/ Oubre/ Ayton still needing a strong infusion of defensive versatility and maybe some microwave scoring off the bench. By selecting the right prospects, We can address all of these issues, whilst mitigating incurred cost, and also adding solid depth. I see three optimal considerations.
1- ( The most optimal outcome). - Draft Vassell at 10, Then purchase an early 2nd round pick from Philly for Paul Reed and one from Sacramento for Daniel Oturu or Vernon Carey. Both Philly and Sacramento have multiple 2nd round picks, And need cap relief. So there likely to be willing to part with them. However, Should Vassell NOT still be there! Then we should definitely look to trade trade back:
2- Phoenix/Boston- The 10th pick for the 17/ 30th pick. 17- Grant Riller or Tyrell Terry. 30- Paul Reed. Then purchase a 2nd from Philly or Sacramento for Daniel Oturu or Vernon Carey or Nik Richards. **( I have heard that Tillman will be returning to Michigan) so I haven't added him here. ** Sign Merrill on a two way deal.
3- Phoenix/ Dallas- The 10 for the 18/ 31. 18- Draft Jalen Smith or Paul Reed. 31- Draft Daniel Oturu. Then purchase a 2nd from Philly or Sacramento for Trevelin Queen. ( a cheaper version of Josh Richardson for defense at the 2/3) since we missed out on Vassell. Queen is a very good defender and ISO scorer. And he's shooting around 38% from three also. **Sign Merrill to a two way contract.
We can also take back salary from cash strapped teams for additional draft assets. Maybe one of :
Nets Maybe take back Wilson Chandler and Nik Claxton ( **Claxton would be awesome at the backup 4/5 too) for the 20/ 55? 20- Draft Riller or Tyrell Terry. Purchase a 2nd from Philly(34). Draft Paul Reed (backup 3-5). 55- Draft Trevelin Queen. ( Josh Richardson role).
Boston Celtics Maybe take back Vincent Poirer for the 30th pick? ( *His per 36 numbers are pretty good actually). https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poirivi01.html . Per 36 #s' are 12 points / 10 rebounds/ 2 assists/ 1.9 blocks. **( expires in 2021). 30- Draft Paul Reed or Tyler Bey. Both capable of playing ( 3-5 defensively). Both elite defensive potential and versatility. Purchase a late 2nd and draft Trevelin Queen. ( Very good defensive 2/3 and potent iso scorer shooting 38% from three. Then sign Sam Merrill to a two way contract.
Philly ** (Keep the 10), And maybe take back Glenn Robinson( player option) and Matisse Thybulle ( Both would fill our needs for a backup veteran 2 and 3( team option) for the 22nd / 34th picks. 22- Draft Paul Reed. ( Backup 3/4). 34- Draft Daniel Oturu. ( Backup 5). Then sign Sam Merrill to a two way contract. (Eventual backup Guard) 1/2 option.
Sacramento Maybe take back Bjelicas' 7 million ( better Saric) , And Justin James' 1.5 million ( good shooting 2 guard with size at 6'7 ( in exchange for the 35th / 43rd picks. 35- Draft Paul Reed. ( backup 3-5). 43- Nik Richard's or ** Austin Wiley? http://www.tankathon.com/players/austin-wiley **Sign Sam Merrill to a two way contract. To become our eventual backup guard once Rubio leaves?
nevetsov wrote:If we have up to the full $9m MLE to throw at a backup PG, I can guarantee we find someone to come fill that role.
Yeah, likely as $$ might be tight.
I dont know the ins and outs of the cap game anymore... but if someone could really breakdown how much we can spend with the swirling options we have, it would be a plus 1 from me.
Can we trade Shank on draft day, then let the other team waive him? Do we get one MLE ? Do other teams get them too?
If Saric takes his QO, and we renounce Baynes, but with a nudge nudge wink wink for a 3 year MLE....then release Shank... where does that put us for a FA bid? Can we even do that? We might have to get used to a lesser Harry Giles, Ska Labissiere, or Caleb Swanigan signing if we cant offer up some coin. We need size. Id rather go young than old if we dont land a true upgrade to Saric (if he stays, and I hope so) ... Im still all in on Cheik.
And as far as playing 2 PGs together... didnt I hear somewhere we wanted a combo guard ? Most of the FAs arent big enough to be off guards. Payne and Carter arent.... nor is Augustin or Napier. Truly, the list of FA PGs we might be interested in and can realistically get is slim. (Give me Dragic or bust )
I dont get the apprehension of drafting one(PG) with the intention of immediate playing time. Jones will go for a cerebral player, a shooter, and if a PG, the ability to run an offense. He jumped on 4 yr players last yr, gambling on CamJo (paid off) and Jerome (not so much)... Does this sound more and more like Grant Riller will be on our board ? I'd play him over any of these marginal backups looking for jobs. That dude is a baller.
I think it's pretty straightforward. We would have $22M if we renounce bird rights to all of our free agents and don't take the option on the Tank. So we would need to find replacements for Baynes, Saric, Tank, and Carter as well as a backup PG/SG with the $22M.
The alternative is we can re-sign any of our UFA under bird rights for any amount and re-sign our RFAs as well. We would still have $10M to offer as an MLE since we are over the cap but under the apron.
Edit: Teams that are over the cap either get the full $10M MLE or a reduced MLE $6M (if they are expected to be luxury tax payers).
Does this 22 million also take into consideration the cap reduction to around 109 million? If it does, I'll be much happier. Otherwise, Wouldn't that drop us down to around 18 million from what was originally rumored to be 24 million? Just curious, And trying to get everything straight.
Frank Lee wrote: Yeah, likely as $$ might be tight.
I dont know the ins and outs of the cap game anymore... but if someone could really breakdown how much we can spend with the swirling options we have, it would be a plus 1 from me.
Can we trade Shank on draft day, then let the other team waive him? Do we get one MLE ? Do other teams get them too?
If Saric takes his QO, and we renounce Baynes, but with a nudge nudge wink wink for a 3 year MLE....then release Shank... where does that put us for a FA bid? Can we even do that? We might have to get used to a lesser Harry Giles, Ska Labissiere, or Caleb Swanigan signing if we cant offer up some coin. We need size. Id rather go young than old if we dont land a true upgrade to Saric (if he stays, and I hope so) ... Im still all in on Cheik.
And as far as playing 2 PGs together... didnt I hear somewhere we wanted a combo guard ? Most of the FAs arent big enough to be off guards. Payne and Carter arent.... nor is Augustin or Napier. Truly, the list of FA PGs we might be interested in and can realistically get is slim. (Give me Dragic or bust )
I dont get the apprehension of drafting one(PG) with the intention of immediate playing time. Jones will go for a cerebral player, a shooter, and if a PG, the ability to run an offense. He jumped on 4 yr players last yr, gambling on CamJo (paid off) and Jerome (not so much)... Does this sound more and more like Grant Riller will be on our board ? I'd play him over any of these marginal backups looking for jobs. That dude is a baller.
I think it's pretty straightforward. We would have $22M if we renounce bird rights to all of our free agents and don't take the option on the Tank. So we would need to find replacements for Baynes, Saric, Tank, and Carter as well as a backup PG/SG with the $22M.
The alternative is we can re-sign any of our UFA under bird rights for any amount and re-sign our RFAs as well. We would still have $10M to offer as an MLE since we are over the cap but under the apron.
Edit: Teams that are over the cap either get the full $10M MLE or a reduced MLE $6M (if they are expected to be luxury tax payers).
Does this 22 million also take into consideration the cap reduction to around 109 million? If it does, I'll be much happier. Otherwise, Wouldn't that drop us down to around 18 million from what was originally rumored to be 24 million? Just curious, And trying to get everything straight.
He isnt including the cap holds. There would be three cap holds, each about $1 million. That drops the actual total down to $19 million available.
bigfoot wrote: I think it's pretty straightforward. We would have $22M if we renounce bird rights to all of our free agents and don't take the option on the Tank. So we would need to find replacements for Baynes, Saric, Tank, and Carter as well as a backup PG/SG with the $22M.
The alternative is we can re-sign any of our UFA under bird rights for any amount and re-sign our RFAs as well. We would still have $10M to offer as an MLE since we are over the cap but under the apron.
Edit: Teams that are over the cap either get the full $10M MLE or a reduced MLE $6M (if they are expected to be luxury tax payers).
Does this 22 million also take into consideration the cap reduction to around 109 million? If it does, I'll be much happier. Otherwise, Wouldn't that drop us down to around 18 million from what was originally rumored to be 24 million? Just curious, And trying to get everything straight.
He isnt including the cap holds. There would be three cap holds, each about $1 million. That drops the actual total down to $19 million available.
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Does this 22 million also take into consideration the cap reduction to around 109 million? If it does, I'll be much happier. Otherwise, Wouldn't that drop us down to around 18 million from what was originally rumored to be 24 million? Just curious, And trying to get everything straight.
He isnt including the cap holds. There would be three cap holds, each about $1 million. That drops the actual total down to $19 million available.
But as a player is signed into one of those cap hold spots, it removes one of the cap holds.
So for example: * 22m under the cap * 4 roster spots available
- CANNOT sign one player for 22m because there would be no money left to sign the remaining 3 players needed to meet min roster requirements
- Each unfilled roster spot "holds" approximately 1m of cap as this is the minimum cost for a player to be signed into this spot
- Therefore, as Jredsaz says, we could sign a player for a maximum of $19m, given that the remaining 3 roster spots will hold $1m Each.
- Say we instead sign our first player for $11m, that would mean the next player (of 4) could sign for a mximum of:
I think if we keep his rights, And some contending team offers him the full MLE, That's a fair price to consider bringing him back. Anything above that, I'd let him walk. 
) 
) . But the rook will have every opportunity to run the second unit with 16+ minutes a night, and best case scene is an eventual Rubio replacement. 
