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Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread

Moderators: Howard Mass, UCF, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami, UCFJayBird

What kind of player do you think we need most?

Point Guard
4
14%
Scoring Guard
19
68%
Great Shooter
3
11%
3&D Wing
2
7%
 
Total votes: 28

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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#841 » by Skin » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:30 pm

zaymon wrote:
Knightro wrote:
zaymon wrote:I also like Green but i like some other (even less heralded) prospects more than him. Defensively he fits big time on our team. He would immediately be our best wing defender, and surely most switchable one. Problem is his offense, he literally amplifies all of our weaknesses: not a good ball handler, moves the ball but cant make advanced reads, streaky shooter. In a vaccum he fits on our team, but in reality i think it can go really bad.


I feel like this applies to pretty much all of the wing players in the 10-20 range though.

None of the "3&D" wings - Vassell, Green, Bey or Nesmith - are particularly spectacular ball handlers or playmakers for others. If they were, they be top 5 picks.

The wings who do have some playmaking and passing chops like Okoro and Bolmaro can't shoot.

A perimeter player who can score, defend and create for others is the most valuable asset in all of basketball IMO. It's not too likely the Magic would find a prospect without significant flaws picking just outside the lottery.


Well it comes to personal preference. I would go with Okoro or Bolmaro becouse i think its more likely they will improve their shooting than Green will improve his handling and passing. I would have more problem deciding between Green and Bane, but at the end of the day i like Bane more.

I don't care about Green's passing. I want a SG who is an assassin. Someone aggressive. I don't need another passive guy.

That said, Green doesn't impress me at all. If we stay at 16, I'd rather go for Kira Lewis or Jahmi'us Ramsey as a compliment to Fultz and improve our depth.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#842 » by Skybox » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:01 pm

I agree. Aggressive. Gets to the rim, gets to the line. I think Maxey is likeliest Donovan Mitchell story for mid-late lotto. Puts it on the floor, floaters, deep 3’s, great body control with contact. A little wild but can handle the ball, which is unlikely to develop at the next level (if you don’t have it already). I could see him as lead guard off the bench with a much stronger second unit, hopefully fighting his way to starting 2 next to Fultz...I also like Kira as backup scoring PG, I’m just less confident that he could ever play next to Fultz. Quite a few solid-looking 3&D wings, but not as exciting to me as a real aggressor with the ball.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#843 » by yoyojw17 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:02 pm

Skin wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Knightro wrote:
I feel like this applies to pretty much all of the wing players in the 10-20 range though.

None of the "3&D" wings - Vassell, Green, Bey or Nesmith - are particularly spectacular ball handlers or playmakers for others. If they were, they be top 5 picks.

The wings who do have some playmaking and passing chops like Okoro and Bolmaro can't shoot.

A perimeter player who can score, defend and create for others is the most valuable asset in all of basketball IMO. It's not too likely the Magic would find a prospect without significant flaws picking just outside the lottery.


Well it comes to personal preference. I would go with Okoro or Bolmaro becouse i think its more likely they will improve their shooting than Green will improve his handling and passing. I would have more problem deciding between Green and Bane, but at the end of the day i like Bane more.

I don't care about Green's passing. I want a SG who is an assassin. Someone aggressive. I don't need another passive guy.

That said, Green doesn't impress me at all. If we stay at 16, I'd rather go for Kira Lewis or Jahmi'us Ramsey as a compliment to Fultz and improve our depth.

I am in the same boat with kira lewis. I think he can bring a lot to this team in his type of play and will definintely improve our depth.

And i'm not sleeping on Nesmith. I think he has a lot more to show than just the shooting... but that was his bread and butter.... and i think he's a bright kid that will keep growing as a player. Might not become a lock down defender... but on a team that he's not shouldering the offense i think he'll be at least and average to above average defender that you can't leave open. and as i've said before... when you're shooting 52% on volume.... you're not passing the ball as much once you get the ball in your hands... cuz you are the best option.

I love Mike Schmitz series.... and it's a pretty good watch.



might make some look at him more in a different light.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#844 » by NotACat » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:53 pm

Skin wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Honestly, if its between trading AG plus assets for a higher pick in this draft versus trading AG plus assets for a surefire 3&D wing/SG on the trade market I'm choosing the latter. I'm just not sold enough on any of the potential players we could move up for in this draft.

I would only trade Gordon for Edwards, but other than that... yeah, there is no one worth moving up for. I'd pursue the latter as well. Oubre at the top of my mind.

Haliburton seems like the ideal guy for us, I would trade AG and our pick to get him
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#845 » by Knightro » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:14 am

Skybox wrote:I agree. Aggressive. Gets to the rim, gets to the line. I think Maxey is likeliest Donovan Mitchell story for mid-late lotto. Puts it on the floor, floaters, deep 3’s, great body control with contact. A little wild but can handle the ball, which is unlikely to develop at the next level (if you don’t have it already). I could see him as lead guard off the bench with a much stronger second unit, hopefully fighting his way to starting 2 next to Fultz...I also like Kira as backup scoring PG, I’m just less confident that he could ever play next to Fultz. Quite a few solid-looking 3&D wings, but not as exciting to me as a real aggressor with the ball.


I'm not necessarily down on Maxey. I think he could be a decent fit with Fultz in the long run, but I think comparing him to Mitchell is way off.

Style of play may be similar, but Mitchell is a top-of-the-food chain elite NBA athlete with a 6'10" wingspan. Maxey isn't anywhere close to that level of athleticism or that length.

If you lowered Mitchell's athleticism to average and chopped 4 inches off his wingspan, I don't think he'd nearly as effective on either end of the floor.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#846 » by Xatticus » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:22 am

Knightro wrote:
Skybox wrote:I agree. Aggressive. Gets to the rim, gets to the line. I think Maxey is likeliest Donovan Mitchell story for mid-late lotto. Puts it on the floor, floaters, deep 3’s, great body control with contact. A little wild but can handle the ball, which is unlikely to develop at the next level (if you don’t have it already). I could see him as lead guard off the bench with a much stronger second unit, hopefully fighting his way to starting 2 next to Fultz...I also like Kira as backup scoring PG, I’m just less confident that he could ever play next to Fultz. Quite a few solid-looking 3&D wings, but not as exciting to me as a real aggressor with the ball.


I'm not necessarily down on Maxey. I think he could be a decent fit with Fultz in the long run, but I think comparing him to Mitchell is way off.

Style of play may be similar, but Mitchell is a top-of-the-food chain elite NBA athlete with a 6'10" wingspan. Maxey isn't anywhere close to that level of athleticism or that length.

If you lowered Mitchell's athleticism to average and chopped 4 inches off his wingspan, I don't think he'd nearly as effective on either end of the floor.


I like him and I wouldn't consider drafting him with our pick. He will probably be able to defend the 1 pretty well, but how much value does that have? He attacks like Coby White, but he doesn't have the same talent. He is decent at getting to the rim and he is impressive at finishing through contact. He doesn't really break down an offense or find anyone other than a big that cuts along the baseline. The shot looks fine, but the results were less than stellar. I wouldn't say he is a bad shooter. Is he actually a good shooter though? He is basically an undersized scoring guard with very little facilitation and a sketchy shot. That can't possibly be the best player available when we pick. He looks like a second-round flyer to me.

Everyone gets compared to Mitchell these days. There isn't much evidence out there that Mitchell is actually good though. His differentials are pretty terrible within the context of that team. His PIPM and RPM are negative and his RAPTOR is only slightly positive, which is almost inconceivable for someone with his box score line. Gobert is what makes that team go. Mitchell lineups have gotten crushed when Gobert isn't on the floor with him.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#847 » by Knightro » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:11 am

It’s still early, but I’m definitely leaning towards Kira Lewis Jr. as my top choice of the second tier of guards ahead of Maxey, Anthony, Hampton, Maledon and Ramsey.

I would take Ball, Edwards, Halliburton or Hayes over him, but they should all be gone before 16.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#848 » by Howard Mass » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:24 am

I got to say.

I'm liking this Draft and think The Magic will get a good player.

There are several that I like.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#849 » by Skin » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:30 am

Xatticus wrote:I haven't really looked at Okoro or Stanley yet. Vassell would be my choice.

Just in terms of Stanley, I would LOVE to give my 2 cents about him. The guy is firmly a second round prospect right now and I don't get it. I don't have any misconceptions about the Magic actually landing this guy in any way. But he's just a pet cat and I love this prospect.

Read on Twitter


I think he would help bring excitement back to Magic basketball (even through his development). Elite athleticism, plays above the rim, quickness all over the floor, comfortable with the ball in his hand and constantly in attack mode on offense and defense. He likens his athleticism and mindset after Zach Lavine and Russell Westbrook.

"I'd like to be a contributing player on a championship team...Individual accolades are great, but they are all opinion-based...I can control how I contribute, how well I play, and the effort I put in. I look at Zach LaVine and Russell Westbrook...Their size and athleticism are very comparable to mine. I try to bring the same level of tenacity and aggression as Russell does, and I like the way that Zach uses his athleticism to create space and finish plays."


I stole the following stats from Knightro's earlier post but added Stanley in there for comparison sake.

Age
Okoro 19 years, 7 months
Green 19 years, 8 months
Vassell 19 years, 11 months
Nesmith 20 years, 9 months
Stanley 20 years, 11 months
Bey 21 years, 3 months

Measurables
Green 6'6" height, 6'10" 1/4 wingspan, 210 lbs
Bey 6'8" height, 6'10" wingspan, 216 lbs
Vassell 6'7" height, 6'10" wingspan, 197 lbs
Nesmith 6'6" height, 6'10" wingspan, 213 lbs
Okoro 6'6" height, 6'9" wingspan, 225 lbs
Stanley 6’6” height, 6’7” wingspan, 195 lbs / 46.5” vertical

- I'm guessing his wingspan ratio alone scratches him off WeHam's board, but the vert should count for something..! right? He broke Zion's vertical jump record at Duke with a 46.5" vert. Plus, Ross @ 6'6/6'7 and Fournier @ 6'7/6'8 are guys that they obviously value... is that enough to give me hope? hah!
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Playmaking
Josh Green 16.0 AST% and 12.6 TO%, +3.4%
Saddiq Bey 14.9 AST% and 10.1 TO%, +4.8%
Isaac Okoro 13.1 AST% 15.2 TO%, -2.1%
Devin Vassell 11.2 AST%, 6.6 TO%, +4.6%
Aaron Nesmith 6.9 AST%, 9.3 TO%, -2.4%
Cassius Stanley 6.6 AST%, 14.4 TO%, -7.8%

Stat guys will look at the numbers and say he was the total opposite of a playmaker. But you have to look beyond that to know it wasn't his job. Sounds to me like it just was not part of his assignment.
Between Vernon Carey, Tre Jones, Matthew Hurt, Wendell Moore, and yourself, you guys were loaded with talent this year at Duke. It’s not uncommon for coaches to ask players to make sacrifices for the greater good of the group. Do you feel as if you made sacrifices in regards to your role on that team? And did Coach K directly communicate what role he wanted you to fill?

Yeah, I think I made sacrifices for sure. At the beginning of the year, Coach K told me that we had Tre Jones and Jordan Goldwire and that he wanted me to be more of a wing that’s always in attack mode and aggressive. It was a little bit of change just because in high school, I was always on the ball as the primary guard either at the one or two. At Duke, I played more of the three and it took a little bit of an adjustment for me. I had to play against and guard bigger and stronger players. On the offensive end, Coach K really honed in on me knocking down open jumpers consistently, which helped me in that position of being a wing. He also wanted me to attack on the wings and the corners. He wanted me to do more off the catch. I didn't really have that many opportunities to get the ball and dribble a whole bunch. That really helped me learn how to be more efficient with my dribbling and my moves. I had to be quick and decisive. I do think I sacrificed for the greater good of the team, but I also think that the role Coach K had me play helped my development to be more efficient and decisive, being quicker with my moves, and being more aggressive. It definitely helped prepare me for the next level.

Shooting
Nesmith .410 3PT% on 290 attempts, .825 FT% on 143 attempts, .685 TS%, .561 3PT rate .307 FT rate
Bey .418 3PT% on 306 attempts, .728 FT% on 136 attempts, .608 TS%, .477 3PT rate, .248 FT rate
Vassell .417 3PT% on 168 attempts, .720 FT% on 93 attempts, .585 TS% .361 3PT%, .221 FT rate
Stanley .360 3PT% on 86 attempts, .733 FT% on 105 attempts, .569 TS% .319 PT rate, .389 FT rate
Green .361 3PT% on 83 attempts, .780 FT% on 109 attempts, .528 TS%. .288 3PT rate, .378 FT rate
Okoro .286 3PT% on 70 attempts, .672 FT% on 134 attempts, .587 TS% .288 3PT rate, .551 FT rate

-Shooting should not be the reason why he is not in the conversation to be in the draft range that these guys are in.

Defense
Vassell 6.9% combined STL/BLK, 1.7 DWS, 4.2 DBPM
Green 4.4% combined STL/BLK, 1.9 DWS, 4.1 DBPM
Okoro 4.8% combined STL/BLK, 1.1 DWS, 2.5 DBPM
Stanley 3.8% combined STL/BLK, 1.4 DWS, 1.9 DBPM
Bey 2.5% combined STL/BLK, 1.4 DWS, 1.9 DBPM
Nesmith 4.9% combined STL/BLK, 0.4 DWS, 0.4 DBPM

- Vassell stands above the rest, but after that, it's a mismash.

----------

I'm probably being a sucker here, but he checks off a lot of the stuff for me. Elite athleticism, very fluid ball handler, natural basketball player (not mechanical), quick twitched, good shooter, coachable, team guy, fierce on the court. I don't know if he's an alpha dog which I love, but he's aggressive which I do. CONSTANT ATTACK MODE. He loves the spotlight. Wanted to be in the Duke limelight. He's an outgoing guy who's attitude is infectious and teammates love to be around. In a lot of similar ways this guy has that charisma kinda like Dipo brought that helped to give us an identity.

Must watch highlight. Dude is flat out TENACIOUS.



https://www.babcockhoops.com/post/cassius-stanley-q-a
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#850 » by Knightro » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:46 pm

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think the Magic should be making any 2020 draft decisions under the assumption that Markelle Fultz is for sure the lead guard they're going to move forward with both in the short and long term.

I like a lot of things about Fultz. I like his size. I like his passing. I like his ability in transition. I like his finishing. I like the way he defends most of the time.

But he simply can't shoot with any sort of range. It's extremely difficult to have a successful offense when one of the primary ball handlers and facilitators is a poor and unwilling shooter.

Now that said, the Magic already committed to Fultz for the 2021 season and he'll be a RFA with a qualifying offer for 2022 if they want to go that route. So he has time to make improvements.

But if Markelle has another season next year exactly like this one? 25% from three on less than 2 attempts a game and only 27% of his total attempts outside of 15 feet, I'm not sure the Magic can move forward with him on a large contract extension.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#851 » by Howard Mass » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:59 pm

Knightro wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think the Magic should be making any 2020 draft decisions under the assumption that Markelle Fultz is for sure the lead guard they're going to move forward with both in the short and long term.

I like a lot of things about Fultz. I like his size. I like his passing. I like his ability in transition. I like his finishing. I like the way he defends most of the time.

But he simply can't shoot with any sort of range. It's extremely difficult to have a successful offense when one of the primary ball handlers and facilitators is a poor and unwilling shooter.

Now that said, the Magic already committed to Fultz for the 2021 season and he'll be a RFA with a qualifying offer for 2022 if they want to go that route. So he has time to make improvements.

But if Markelle has another season next year exactly like this one? 25% from three on less than 2 attempts a game and only 27% of his total attempts outside of 15 feet, I'm not sure the Magic can move forward with him on a large contract extension.


I like Markelle Fultz as the long-term starter at point and even if you do, there are some good point guard options in this Draft. It would not hurt to get even a backup in The Draft.

You cannot limit yourself to just swings although there are some good options in this Draft.

I do like this Draft and BPA outside of a Center LOL is the way to go here.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#852 » by jonbob17 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:21 pm

If Fultz could hit the wide open ones enough to make the defense guard him, it would open everything else up. The way defenses just sag off of him makes me nauseous.
The other thing with Fultz is maybe we don't have to shoe horn him into what we think a 2020 PG should look like. I am not sure why he couldn't be the primary ball handler from the 2 if the Magic got a guard that could shoot really well, generate their own shot and pass well enough.
If Fultz could be a Dwayne Wade-lite type player. Fultz isnt nearly the athlete Wade was, but he seems to get wherever he wants with relative ease. His mid range looks pretty good most of the time, and he finishes at the rim at a pretty elite rate. I think he can get better at getting to the line. Wade never shot the three well, who knows if Fultz ever will.
I don't know if this type of player fits in the modern NBA. Derozan seems like he is not in high demand, and he is a terrible comp. Maybe it is time to zig while everyone is trying to zag. Of course this would also require us to have another guard who is a lights out shooter, and probably another wing, and maybe combo forward who can shoot pretty well.
Feels like the Magic are rapidly approaching the crossroads (maybe if not probably already there) of whether to continue down the current path, or to blow things up a bit.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#853 » by jezzerinho » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:13 pm

Knightro wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think the Magic should be making any 2020 draft decisions under the assumption that Markelle Fultz is for sure the lead guard they're going to move forward with both in the short and long term.

I like a lot of things about Fultz. I like his size. I like his passing. I like his ability in transition. I like his finishing. I like the way he defends most of the time.

But he simply can't shoot with any sort of range. It's extremely difficult to have a successful offense when one of the primary ball handlers and facilitators is a poor and unwilling shooter.

Now that said, the Magic already committed to Fultz for the 2021 season and he'll be a RFA with a qualifying offer for 2022 if they want to go that route. So he has time to make improvements.

But if Markelle has another season next year exactly like this one? 25% from three on less than 2 attempts a game and only 27% of his total attempts outside of 15 feet, I'm not sure the Magic can move forward with him on a large contract extension.


Fully agree, which is why I'd like to see us chase a combo guard like Maxey, Anthony or Halliburton (maybe Ramsey or Terry in a trade down) that has complementary skills to Fultz. Play them both at times like we do with DJ but with the idea that they could be the PG of the future if Fultz doesn't work out.

We could go pure PG in the knowledge a draftee at 15/16 could well be a career backup anyway and as a maybe future replacement for Fultz, but I like the combo route better...
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#854 » by The Effect » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:45 pm

Skin wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Knightro wrote:
I feel like this applies to pretty much all of the wing players in the 10-20 range though.

None of the "3&D" wings - Vassell, Green, Bey or Nesmith - are particularly spectacular ball handlers or playmakers for others. If they were, they be top 5 picks.

The wings who do have some playmaking and passing chops like Okoro and Bolmaro can't shoot.

A perimeter player who can score, defend and create for others is the most valuable asset in all of basketball IMO. It's not too likely the Magic would find a prospect without significant flaws picking just outside the lottery.


Well it comes to personal preference. I would go with Okoro or Bolmaro becouse i think its more likely they will improve their shooting than Green will improve his handling and passing. I would have more problem deciding between Green and Bane, but at the end of the day i like Bane more.

I don't care about Green's passing. I want a SG who is an assassin. Someone aggressive. I don't need another passive guy.

That said, Green doesn't impress me at all. If we stay at 16, I'd rather go for Kira Lewis or Jahmi'us Ramsey as a compliment to Fultz and improve our depth.

I know all the flaws with Ramsey, but i dont care, hes one of my favorites and id be thrilled if we got him.

Not only would he instantly be the best shooter on the team, but he has the attitude thats seriously missing from this team. We need SOMEONE with a real alpha mentality, someone to lead these guys, We need a Kobe (not saying skill level, kobe was a once a generation player, but mamba mentality if you will). Ramsey could be that guy
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#855 » by basketballRob » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:56 pm

Knightro wrote:
Skybox wrote:I agree. Aggressive. Gets to the rim, gets to the line. I think Maxey is likeliest Donovan Mitchell story for mid-late lotto. Puts it on the floor, floaters, deep 3’s, great body control with contact. A little wild but can handle the ball, which is unlikely to develop at the next level (if you don’t have it already). I could see him as lead guard off the bench with a much stronger second unit, hopefully fighting his way to starting 2 next to Fultz...I also like Kira as backup scoring PG, I’m just less confident that he could ever play next to Fultz. Quite a few solid-looking 3&D wings, but not as exciting to me as a real aggressor with the ball.


I'm not necessarily down on Maxey. I think he could be a decent fit with Fultz in the long run, but I think comparing him to Mitchell is way off.

Style of play may be similar, but Mitchell is a top-of-the-food chain elite NBA athlete with a 6'10" wingspan. Maxey isn't anywhere close to that level of athleticism or that length.

If you lowered Mitchell's athleticism to average and chopped 4 inches off his wingspan, I don't think he'd nearly as effective on either end of the floor.
Ramsey is similar to Mitchell.

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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#856 » by basketballRob » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:06 pm

Knightro wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think the Magic should be making any 2020 draft decisions under the assumption that Markelle Fultz is for sure the lead guard they're going to move forward with both in the short and long term.

I like a lot of things about Fultz. I like his size. I like his passing. I like his ability in transition. I like his finishing. I like the way he defends most of the time.

But he simply can't shoot with any sort of range. It's extremely difficult to have a successful offense when one of the primary ball handlers and facilitators is a poor and unwilling shooter.

Now that said, the Magic already committed to Fultz for the 2021 season and he'll be a RFA with a qualifying offer for 2022 if they want to go that route. So he has time to make improvements.

But if Markelle has another season next year exactly like this one? 25% from three on less than 2 attempts a game and only 27% of his total attempts outside of 15 feet, I'm not sure the Magic can move forward with him on a large contract extension.
I believe it was Robbins saying on the radio, that the buzz behind the scenes with the Magic is that Markelle is that guy.

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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#857 » by zaymon » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:30 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
Knightro wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think the Magic should be making any 2020 draft decisions under the assumption that Markelle Fultz is for sure the lead guard they're going to move forward with both in the short and long term.

I like a lot of things about Fultz. I like his size. I like his passing. I like his ability in transition. I like his finishing. I like the way he defends most of the time.

But he simply can't shoot with any sort of range. It's extremely difficult to have a successful offense when one of the primary ball handlers and facilitators is a poor and unwilling shooter.

Now that said, the Magic already committed to Fultz for the 2021 season and he'll be a RFA with a qualifying offer for 2022 if they want to go that route. So he has time to make improvements.

But if Markelle has another season next year exactly like this one? 25% from three on less than 2 attempts a game and only 27% of his total attempts outside of 15 feet, I'm not sure the Magic can move forward with him on a large contract extension.


Fully agree, which is why I'd like to see us chase a combo guard like Maxey, Anthony or Halliburton (maybe Ramsey or Terry in a trade down) that has complementary skills to Fultz. Play them both at times like we do with DJ but with the idea that they could be the PG of the future if Fultz doesn't work out.

We could go pure PG in the knowledge a draftee at 15/16 could well be a career backup anyway and as a maybe future replacement for Fultz, but I like the combo route better...

Fultz is far from a sure thing, but he is the best chance we have for a lead ball handler right now. I was wondering who you guys think are the best fits next to Markelle in this draft (preferably in our range)? I would say:
1. Bane- pro: shooting, secondary ball handling and passing, switchability on defense; cons: athletecism
2. Maledon- pro: long, great passer, secondary ball handler; cons: frame, athletecism
3. Green- pro: long, switchable defender, good in transition, cons: shooting, ball handling, finishing
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#858 » by jonbob17 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:19 pm

Out of those guys I guess it is Maledon, I am just not sure how high his ceiling is due to that athleticism you mentioned. I like Bane, but he is a back of the rotation guy, negative wingspan, not sure how management feels about that. Green, he has nice size but his shot is ugly. I don't know it seems like this years version of Frazier or any other long wing shose shot doesn't develop. I guess maybe they have to hit on one of these 3-D guys.

I would be ok with any of these guys if our pick was in the mid late 20s. Hope we have better pickings at 16, but who knows. RJ Hampton would be nice combo guard next to Fultz, but he is a long way off, and who knows how he will develop.
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#859 » by The Effect » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:20 pm

Skin wrote:
Xatticus wrote:I haven't really looked at Okoro or Stanley yet. Vassell would be my choice.

Just in terms of Stanley, I would LOVE to give my 2 cents about him. The guy is firmly a second round prospect right now and I don't get it. I don't have any misconceptions about the Magic actually landing this guy in any way. But he's just a pet cat and I love this prospect.

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I think he would help bring excitement back to Magic basketball (even through his development). Elite athleticism, plays above the rim, quickness all over the floor, comfortable with the ball in his hand and constantly in attack mode on offense and defense. He likens his athleticism and mindset after Zach Lavine and Russell Westbrook.

"I'd like to be a contributing player on a championship team...Individual accolades are great, but they are all opinion-based...I can control how I contribute, how well I play, and the effort I put in. I look at Zach LaVine and Russell Westbrook...Their size and athleticism are very comparable to mine. I try to bring the same level of tenacity and aggression as Russell does, and I like the way that Zach uses his athleticism to create space and finish plays."


I stole the following stats from Knightro's earlier post but added Stanley in there for comparison sake.

Age
Okoro 19 years, 7 months
Green 19 years, 8 months
Vassell 19 years, 11 months
Nesmith 20 years, 9 months
Stanley 20 years, 11 months
Bey 21 years, 3 months

Measurables
Green 6'6" height, 6'10" 1/4 wingspan, 210 lbs
Bey 6'8" height, 6'10" wingspan, 216 lbs
Vassell 6'7" height, 6'10" wingspan, 197 lbs
Nesmith 6'6" height, 6'10" wingspan, 213 lbs
Okoro 6'6" height, 6'9" wingspan, 225 lbs
Stanley 6’6” height, 6’7” wingspan, 195 lbs / 46.5” vertical

- I'm guessing his wingspan ratio alone scratches him off WeHam's board, but the vert should count for something..! right? He broke Zion's vertical jump record at Duke with a 46.5" vert. Plus, Ross @ 6'6/6'7 and Fournier @ 6'7/6'8 are guys that they obviously value... is that enough to give me hope? hah!
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Playmaking
Josh Green 16.0 AST% and 12.6 TO%, +3.4%
Saddiq Bey 14.9 AST% and 10.1 TO%, +4.8%
Isaac Okoro 13.1 AST% 15.2 TO%, -2.1%
Devin Vassell 11.2 AST%, 6.6 TO%, +4.6%
Aaron Nesmith 6.9 AST%, 9.3 TO%, -2.4%
Cassius Stanley 6.6 AST%, 14.4 TO%, -7.8%

Stat guys will look at the numbers and say he was the total opposite of a playmaker. But you have to look beyond that to know it wasn't his job. Sounds to me like it just was not part of his assignment.
Between Vernon Carey, Tre Jones, Matthew Hurt, Wendell Moore, and yourself, you guys were loaded with talent this year at Duke. It’s not uncommon for coaches to ask players to make sacrifices for the greater good of the group. Do you feel as if you made sacrifices in regards to your role on that team? And did Coach K directly communicate what role he wanted you to fill?

Yeah, I think I made sacrifices for sure. At the beginning of the year, Coach K told me that we had Tre Jones and Jordan Goldwire and that he wanted me to be more of a wing that’s always in attack mode and aggressive. It was a little bit of change just because in high school, I was always on the ball as the primary guard either at the one or two. At Duke, I played more of the three and it took a little bit of an adjustment for me. I had to play against and guard bigger and stronger players. On the offensive end, Coach K really honed in on me knocking down open jumpers consistently, which helped me in that position of being a wing. He also wanted me to attack on the wings and the corners. He wanted me to do more off the catch. I didn't really have that many opportunities to get the ball and dribble a whole bunch. That really helped me learn how to be more efficient with my dribbling and my moves. I had to be quick and decisive. I do think I sacrificed for the greater good of the team, but I also think that the role Coach K had me play helped my development to be more efficient and decisive, being quicker with my moves, and being more aggressive. It definitely helped prepare me for the next level.

Shooting
Nesmith .410 3PT% on 290 attempts, .825 FT% on 143 attempts, .685 TS%, .561 3PT rate .307 FT rate
Bey .418 3PT% on 306 attempts, .728 FT% on 136 attempts, .608 TS%, .477 3PT rate, .248 FT rate
Vassell .417 3PT% on 168 attempts, .720 FT% on 93 attempts, .585 TS% .361 3PT%, .221 FT rate
Stanley .360 3PT% on 86 attempts, .733 FT% on 105 attempts, .569 TS% .319 PT rate, .389 FT rate
Green .361 3PT% on 83 attempts, .780 FT% on 109 attempts, .528 TS%. .288 3PT rate, .378 FT rate
Okoro .286 3PT% on 70 attempts, .672 FT% on 134 attempts, .587 TS% .288 3PT rate, .551 FT rate

-Shooting should not be the reason why he is not in the conversation to be in the draft range that these guys are in.

Defense
Vassell 6.9% combined STL/BLK, 1.7 DWS, 4.2 DBPM
Green 4.4% combined STL/BLK, 1.9 DWS, 4.1 DBPM
Okoro 4.8% combined STL/BLK, 1.1 DWS, 2.5 DBPM
Stanley 3.8% combined STL/BLK, 1.4 DWS, 1.9 DBPM
Bey 2.5% combined STL/BLK, 1.4 DWS, 1.9 DBPM
Nesmith 4.9% combined STL/BLK, 0.4 DWS, 0.4 DBPM

- Vassell stands above the rest, but after that, it's a mismash.

----------

I'm probably being a sucker here, but he checks off a lot of the stuff for me. Elite athleticism, very fluid ball handler, natural basketball player (not mechanical), quick twitched, good shooter, coachable, team guy, fierce on the court. I don't know if he's an alpha dog which I love, but he's aggressive which I do. CONSTANT ATTACK MODE. He loves the spotlight. Wanted to be in the Duke limelight. He's an outgoing guy who's attitude is infectious and teammates love to be around. In a lot of similar ways this guy has that charisma kinda like Dipo brought that helped to give us an identity.

Must watch highlight. Dude is flat out TENACIOUS.



https://www.babcockhoops.com/post/cassius-stanley-q-a

I hate this comparision because it feels lazy, but does anyone else get Duke 1999 Corey Maggette vibes from Stanley??
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Re: Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#860 » by tiderulz » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:27 am

Howard Mass wrote:
Knightro wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think the Magic should be making any 2020 draft decisions under the assumption that Markelle Fultz is for sure the lead guard they're going to move forward with both in the short and long term.

I like a lot of things about Fultz. I like his size. I like his passing. I like his ability in transition. I like his finishing. I like the way he defends most of the time.

But he simply can't shoot with any sort of range. It's extremely difficult to have a successful offense when one of the primary ball handlers and facilitators is a poor and unwilling shooter.

Now that said, the Magic already committed to Fultz for the 2021 season and he'll be a RFA with a qualifying offer for 2022 if they want to go that route. So he has time to make improvements.

But if Markelle has another season next year exactly like this one? 25% from three on less than 2 attempts a game and only 27% of his total attempts outside of 15 feet, I'm not sure the Magic can move forward with him on a large contract extension.


I like Markelle Fultz as the long-term starter at point and even if you do, there are some good point guard options in this Draft. It would not hurt to get even a backup in The Draft.

You cannot limit yourself to just swings although there are some good options in this Draft.

I do like this Draft and BPA outside of a Center LOL is the way to go here.

its also not just getting a backup PG. you can play with two PG's at times, giving more ball handling and passing on the court. I remember seeing games close with Dinwiddie and Russell. FVV and Lowry. Never hurts to have people that can create shots

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