Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason!

[Deeeez Knicks]

Read on Twitter

Wow no Randle, no Melo, no DSJ. Starting to weed out all the guys who don't represent NYC.

yeah but bringing in toppin

It would make us better next year and maybe we compete for a playoff spot (maybe not), but where do we go from there? FVV, Bog and Harkless will probably cost a good chunk of change...then we have to extend Mitch, then by the time those contracts are up we will have to extend RJ/frp this year. Seems like it locks us into a mediocre spot and not much upside

Think I would rather save our money and just be bad again next year.

[No-Man]

The following tweet explains the Randle part, and DSJ

I think Toppin can play Center enough that with Mitch, Taj, him and a 2-way guy you'd be set there

I agree on quality over quantity but there isn't capspace after FVV-Bogdan-Harkless (and Moe makes sense imo) and Napier, Dotson, etc are solid rotation players

Thibs has played with Deng at PF and I think he would be okay with 4-out around Mitch, plus it's so clearly the way to go

I wouldn't burn anything trading up, if the Knicks move up and they can pick LaMelo, sure, go ahead, in the current situation it ain't happening and I think Obi/Deni are the best of possible bunch

[No-Man]

Wow no Randle, no Melo, no DSJ. Starting to weed out all the guys who don't represent NYC.

yeah but bringing in toppin

It would make us better next year and maybe we compete for a playoff spot (maybe not), but where do we go from there? FVV, Bog and Harkless will probably cost a good chunk of change...then we have to extend Mitch, then by the time those contracts are up we will have to extend RJ/frp this year. Seems like it locks us into a mediocre spot and not much upside

Think I would rather save our money and just be bad again next year.

Oh so would I, I'd tank the heck out of the season, actually trade whatever has value (including RJ who I am not buying and I think some franchises still could) and move onto a purely asset acquisition mode, but the Knicks ain't doing any of that, just being realistic

[Deeeez Knicks]

There will def be some opportunities to buy some picks. Hopefully we jump on 1 or 2 of them. I really don't want to overspend long term money on mediocre players.

There is a limit of 5.2M that a team could give for another teams or receive for another teams as cash considerations.

Last year Cavs virtually bought Kevin Porter Jr (#30) from Detroit for 5M and 4 lousy SRPs (Utah 20, Portland 21 e 23, Miami Top55 protected).

I think this year teams are more interested about saving money. If we can get a #20 for 5M its a great deal. We could pay about 3M to move up from 27 to 20. Then invest 2M to buy a early second round.

Yea, there were a bunch of deals last year where teams were looking to save money/clear cap....Iggy, Harkless, TJ Warren...a lot of those guys were even better then players we signed. Put Brock to good use and hopefully we can maximize our cap and get some good, creative deals.

[mpharris36]

There will def be some opportunities to buy some picks. Hopefully we jump on 1 or 2 of them. I really don't want to overspend long term money on mediocre players.

There is a limit of 5.2M that a team could give for another teams or receive for another teams as cash considerations.

Last year Cavs virtually bought Kevin Porter Jr (#30) from Detroit for 5M and 4 lousy SRPs (Utah 20, Portland 21 e 23, Miami Top55 protected).

I think this year teams are more interested about saving money. If we can get a #20 for 5M its a great deal. We could pay about 3M to move up from 27 to 20. Then invest 2M to buy a early second round.

Yea, there were a bunch of deals last year where teams were looking to save money/clear cap....Iggy, Harkless, TJ Warren...a lot of those guys were even better then players we signed. Put Brock to good use and hopefully we can maximize our cap and get some good, creative deals.

don't think the knicks new regime would value that direction. I we might not sign guys LONG term...but I think the knicks see value in winning games even if its not a playoff team.

[KnicksGadfly]

Read on Twitter

Wow no Randle, no Melo, no DSJ. Starting to weed out all the guys who don't represent NYC.

yeah but bringing in toppin

Let me dreammmm

[Deeeez Knicks]

There is a limit of 5.2M that a team could give for another teams or receive for another teams as cash considerations.

Last year Cavs virtually bought Kevin Porter Jr (#30) from Detroit for 5M and 4 lousy SRPs (Utah 20, Portland 21 e 23, Miami Top55 protected).

I think this year teams are more interested about saving money. If we can get a #20 for 5M its a great deal. We could pay about 3M to move up from 27 to 20. Then invest 2M to buy a early second round.

Yea, there were a bunch of deals last year where teams were looking to save money/clear cap....Iggy, Harkless, TJ Warren...a lot of those guys were even better then players we signed. Put Brock to good use and hopefully we can maximize our cap and get some good, creative deals.

don't think the knicks new regime would value that direction. We might not sign guys LONG term...but I think the knicks see value in winning games even if its not a playoff team.

I could still see us still buying some extra picks or moving up. Think that could def happen. But yeah, they will probably try to improve the roster and win some more games. That could be good or bad depending how they do it.

Overall, it would be a great season to tank. I doubt there will be an 82 game season, probably no fans (assuming another bubble or something like that), can call a mulligan on the first year of a new regimen..Just guessing, but I think one of the main reasons Dolan is so against tanking is the in-person experience.

Of course Thibs would probably not alllow that intentionally at least.

[thebuzzardman]

There will def be some opportunities to buy some picks. Hopefully we jump on 1 or 2 of them. I really don't want to overspend long term money on mediocre players.

There is a limit of 5.2M that a team could give for another teams or receive for another teams as cash considerations.

Last year Cavs virtually bought Kevin Porter Jr (#30) from Detroit for 5M and 4 lousy SRPs (Utah 20, Portland 21 e 23, Miami Top55 protected).

I think this year teams are more interested about saving money. If we can get a #20 for 5M its a great deal. We could pay about 3M to move up from 27 to 20. Then invest 2M to buy a early second round.

5.2 million to a single team or 5.2 million total to various teams in the nba?

[thebuzzardman]

Yea, there were a bunch of deals last year where teams were looking to save money/clear cap....Iggy, Harkless, TJ Warren...a lot of those guys were even better then players we signed. Put Brock to good use and hopefully we can maximize our cap and get some good, creative deals.

don't think the knicks new regime would value that direction. I we might not sign guys LONG term...but I think the knicks see value in winning games even if its not a playoff team.

I could still see us still buying some extra picks or moving up. Think that could def happen. But yeah, they will probably try to improve the roster and win some more games. That could be good or bad depending how they do it.

Overall, it would be a great season to tank. I doubt there will be an 82 game season, probably no fans (assuming another bubble or something like that), can call a mulligan on the first year of a new regimen..Just guessing, but I think one of the main reasons Dolan is so against tanking is the in-person experience.

Of course Thibs would probably not alllow that intentionally at least.

Question. Can knicks pick up option on players such as Portis etc and trade them for 2 year cap relief to a team that has a player under contract for 2 more seasons? Was the option deadline extended because of the rona? Is the option date before or after the draft usually? What about this year? Figured with Aller, some future picks, teams looking to deal picks and general cap issues for listed teams, real opportunities for knicks. I hope.

[Richard4444]

Wow no Randle, no Melo, no DSJ. Starting to weed out all the guys who don't represent NYC.

yeah but bringing in toppin

It would make us better next year and maybe we compete for a playoff spot (maybe not), but where do we go from there? FVV, Bog and Harkless will probably cost a good chunk of change...then we have to extend Mitch, then by the time those contracts are up we will have to extend RJ/frp this year. Seems like it locks us into a mediocre spot and not much upside

Think I would rather save our money and just be bad again next year.

If we sign the correct players, we can even maximize the value of his owed salary and can trade them for stars.

There are a various mid value contracts with high potential players that worked great like Lavine, Caris, Sabonis, Turner, Spencer, Buddy.

The problem is we cant correctly evaluate the players and we get too many negative deals in the last years with Noah, Melo, Tim, Lee and Randle signings. Its partially because the only players who accept our offers were rejected by the others teams. This year the competition is much weaker.

I think Fred and Bogdan can be positive contracts depending on the price. I dont see many better options in 2021 FA class excepting piper dreams like Giannis, AD, Leonard.

Mercenaries usually are not proven or great potential players. Because of their lack of proven skills, they cant get long term deals.

If we dont try to build a team with good players, we will always be a laughing stock and we cant bring great FAs. Its a vicious circle. We dont get FAs because we lack a respectful team. We dont try to build a respectful team to try to get FAs with cap space.

[Richard4444]

There will def be some opportunities to buy some picks. Hopefully we jump on 1 or 2 of them. I really don't want to overspend long term money on mediocre players.

There is a limit of 5.2M that a team could give for another teams or receive for another teams as cash considerations.

Last year Cavs virtually bought Kevin Porter Jr (#30) from Detroit for 5M and 4 lousy SRPs (Utah 20, Portland 21 e 23, Miami Top55 protected).

I think this year teams are more interested about saving money. If we can get a #20 for 5M its a great deal. We could pay about 3M to move up from 27 to 20. Then invest 2M to buy a early second round.

5.2 million to a single team or 5.2 million total to various teams in the nba?

I think the limit is to both. And for 2019-2020 season the limit is 5.6M. 5.2M was to 2018-2019 season.

[Richard4444]

The following tweet explains the Randle part, and DSJ

I think Toppin can play Center enough that with Mitch, Taj, him and a 2-way guy you'd be set there

I agree on quality over quantity but there isn't capspace after FVV-Bogdan-Harkless (and Moe makes sense imo) and Napier, Dotson, etc are solid rotation players

Thibs has played with Deng at PF and I think he would be okay with 4-out around Mitch, plus it's so clearly the way to go

I wouldn't burn anything trading up, if the Knicks move up and they can pick LaMelo, sure, go ahead, in the current situation it ain't happening and I think Obi/Deni are the best of possible bunch

Toppin cant play center. Everybody think he worst than Randle in defense. I dont trust him as a outside shooter either. He could be a solid piece in a really fast paced win now team like GSW. Especially for being a more old and NBA ready player.

Harkless can be a solid player. But with RJ, Mitch, Frank, Taj and Obbi, we dont need another non shooter in the rotation.

I liked the Randle-Gay swap. But I think SAS would not like it very much.

[Deeeez Knicks]

don't think the knicks new regime would value that direction. I we might not sign guys LONG term...but I think the knicks see value in winning games even if its not a playoff team.

I could still see us still buying some extra picks or moving up. Think that could def happen. But yeah, they will probably try to improve the roster and win some more games. That could be good or bad depending how they do it.

Overall, it would be a great season to tank. I doubt there will be an 82 game season, probably no fans (assuming another bubble or something like that), can call a mulligan on the first year of a new regimen..Just guessing, but I think one of the main reasons Dolan is so against tanking is the in-person experience.

Of course Thibs would probably not alllow that intentionally at least.

Question. Can knicks pick up option on players such as Portis etc and trade them for 2 year cap relief to a team that has a player under contract for 2 more seasons? Was the option deadline extended because of the rona? Is the option date before or after the draft usually? What about this year? Figured with Aller, some future picks, teams looking to deal picks and general cap issues for listed teams, real opportunities for knicks. I hope.

The deadline was extended to Oct 17th for most options including Portis.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29256760/2020-nba-restart-key-dates-playoffs-draft-free-agency-schedule

Knicks could pick up the option and trade Portis, but if a team is looking to save money I dont think they would want Portis's contract. It probably makes more sense just to trade pure cap space and take on the contract.

But I think Bullock would have some value and maybe we can flip him. I would pick up his contract and try to move him for something...even a 2nd round pick. Even if we dont pick up his option I think he has $1mil guarantee anyway.

[Richard4444]

don't think the knicks new regime would value that direction. I we might not sign guys LONG term...but I think the knicks see value in winning games even if its not a playoff team.

I could still see us still buying some extra picks or moving up. Think that could def happen. But yeah, they will probably try to improve the roster and win some more games. That could be good or bad depending how they do it.

Overall, it would be a great season to tank. I doubt there will be an 82 game season, probably no fans (assuming another bubble or something like that), can call a mulligan on the first year of a new regimen..Just guessing, but I think one of the main reasons Dolan is so against tanking is the in-person experience.

Of course Thibs would probably not alllow that intentionally at least.

Question. Can knicks pick up option on players such as Portis etc and trade them for 2 year cap relief to a team that has a player under contract for 2 more seasons? Was the option deadline extended because of the rona? Is the option date before or after the draft usually? What about this year? Figured with Aller, some future picks, teams looking to deal picks and general cap issues for listed teams, real opportunities for knicks. I hope.

We dont need Portis to offer cap relief. We can absorb the contract with our cap space.

[Richard4444]

The cash consideration situation in the beginning of the season

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/09/cash-sent-received-in-nba-trades-for-201920.html

[thebuzzardman]

I could still see us still buying some extra picks or moving up. Think that could def happen. But yeah, they will probably try to improve the roster and win some more games. That could be good or bad depending how they do it.

Overall, it would be a great season to tank. I doubt there will be an 82 game season, probably no fans (assuming another bubble or something like that), can call a mulligan on the first year of a new regimen..Just guessing, but I think one of the main reasons Dolan is so against tanking is the in-person experience.

Of course Thibs would probably not alllow that intentionally at least.

Question. Can knicks pick up option on players such as Portis etc and trade them for 2 year cap relief to a team that has a player under contract for 2 more seasons? Was the option deadline extended because of the rona? Is the option date before or after the draft usually? What about this year? Figured with Aller, some future picks, teams looking to deal picks and general cap issues for listed teams, real opportunities for knicks. I hope.

We dont need Portis to offer cap relief. We can absorb the contract with our cap space.

I understand that. The Knicks can offer pure cap relief. They can also offer teams cap relief in the form of picking up the option of any of Portis, Bullock, Gibson, Ellington and trading those one year deals for two or three year deal players. With Frank and Dsjr and to a degree Randle, though he has a 5 million player option following year. Less likely and not exactly the money for picks scenarios but again, Knicks can operate with a lot of flexibility, if the right scenarios present themselves

[Richard4444]

Question. Can knicks pick up option on players such as Portis etc and trade them for 2 year cap relief to a team that has a player under contract for 2 more seasons? Was the option deadline extended because of the rona? Is the option date before or after the draft usually? What about this year? Figured with Aller, some future picks, teams looking to deal picks and general cap issues for listed teams, real opportunities for knicks. I hope.

We dont need Portis to offer cap relief. We can absorb the contract with our cap space.

I understand that. The Knicks can offer pure cap relief. They can also offer teams cap relief in the form of picking up the option of any of Portis, Bullock, Gibson, Ellington and trading those one year deals for two or three year deal players. With Frank and Dsjr and to a degree Randle, though he has a 5 million player option following year. Less likely and not exactly the money for picks scenarios but again, Knicks can operate with a lot of flexibility, if the right scenarios present themselves

You mean you think a way over the cap space limit team could rather have Portis than a 30M multiple years contract. A team like GSW would rather have a one year Portis than multiple years Wiggins on the roster. Because if we simply absorb Wiggins contract, they still over the cap and would not be possible to contract any help (in this example, we are ignoring the fact GSW has a TPE).

I think its a long shot. Portis, Gibson and Wayne contracts are really overpaid players. No one really wants them. They will have a hard time getting the half of their current contract.

[Deeeez Knicks]

yeah but bringing in toppin

It would make us better next year and maybe we compete for a playoff spot (maybe not), but where do we go from there? FVV, Bog and Harkless will probably cost a good chunk of change...then we have to extend Mitch, then by the time those contracts are up we will have to extend RJ/frp this year. Seems like it locks us into a mediocre spot and not much upside

Think I would rather save our money and just be bad again next year.

If we sign the correct players, we can even maximize the value of his owed salary and can trade them for stars.

There are a various mid value contracts with high potential players that worked great like Lavine, Caris, Sabonis, Turner, Spencer, Buddy.

The problem is we cant correctly evaluate the players and we get too many negative deals in the last years with Noah, Melo, Tim, Lee and Randle signings. Its partially because the only players who accept our offers were rejected by the others teams. This year the competition is much weaker.

I think Fred and Bogdan can be positive contracts depending on the price. I dont see many better options in 2021 FA class excepting piper dreams like Giannis, AD, Leonard.

Mercenaries usually are not proven or great potential players. Because of their lack of proven skills, they cant get long term deals.

If we dont try to build a team with good players, we will always be a laughing stock and we cant bring great FAs. Its a vicious circle. We dont get FAs because we lack a respectful team. We dont try to build a respectful team to try to get FAs with cap space.

True, it all depends on the contract. If we can get players on good deals they can be positive assets. On the other end, if we overpay they might become negative assets. I do like FVV and Bogdan. They would be great fits. But I think their teams want to keep them too. I am not expecting them to come here cheap, and it's hard to see them coming here unless we overpay. I dont see them being worth big money at this point either for the Knicks...They are more complimentary type players. Without stars I dont think they have the same value.

Its the same thing we see all the time...THJ looks great playing next to Donic...but trash on the Knicks when he is the #1 or #2 option. FVV looks great playing next to Lowry, Siakam, etc. Put him on the Knicks and he probably wont look as good. If we are playing him to be the #1 ball handler/Faciliator and a main scorer, he is probably going to disappoint. Maybe not as much as THJ...and he can still be productive, but just maybe not as much as we are paying.

We need to build from the top down and do everything we can to find to find star type players. By signing FVV and Bogdan, it hurts our draft lottery odds and takes us out of free agency which would be the 2 main avenues to find stars.

For the Knicks, I would continue trying to build thru the draft, use our cap to get assets/young players with potential, and look to sign value contracts. We really need to strike gold in the draft. I do agree with that part about getting good contracts. We probably need to look for more under the radar type players...Like I would love to resign Dotson for cheap. I would not expect him to be close to FVV/Bogdan, but in a consistent role he might be pretty productive and have some value in a cheap contract. And you never know. Its low risk. Try to find guys that could develop into a FVV or Bogdan. I know thats not easy either. But just keep trying to take low risk moves, or draft picks and eventually some will pan out. We really just need to develop some of our own players for once, rather then overpay for others. That takes some time though. It's hard to see us digging out of this hole until we do that

[thebuzzardman]

We dont need Portis to offer cap relief. We can absorb the contract with our cap space.

I understand that. The Knicks can offer pure cap relief. They can also offer teams cap relief in the form of picking up the option of any of Portis, Bullock, Gibson, Ellington and trading those one year deals for two or three year deal players. With Frank and Dsjr and to a degree Randle, though he has a 5 million player option following year. Less likely and not exactly the money for picks scenarios but again, Knicks can operate with a lot of flexibility, if the right scenarios present themselves

You mean you think a way over the cap space limit team could rather have Portis than a 30M multiple years contract. A team like GSW would rather have a one year Portis than multiple years Wiggins on the roster. Because if we simply absorb Wiggins contract, they still over the cap and would not be possible to contract any help (in this example, we are ignoring the fact GSW has a TPE).

I think its a long shot. Portis, Gibson and Wayne contracts are really overpaid players. No one really wants them. They will have a hard time getting the half of their current contract.

See the bolded part.

Plus, again, sure, for pure cap relief, obviously absorbing a contract is best for teams.

I'm talking about the scenario where a team wants to move a guy who is on a 2 or 3 year deal and would take a player who isn't that great or of limited use, for the one year remaining.

Again, I was pointing out additional scenarios.

The Knicks could buy a pick outright and also take a player into cap space and suddenly have two additional picks, then use semi useful players like Randle and Frank or even Portis, and trade a few picks (picked up for $ or one of them with a Dallas pick) plus SEMI useful players IF, say, Chicago truly wanted cap relief for LaVine and move on from his contract.

Or even smaller moves more based on fit, taking back a 12 million 2 year player from a team for Frank (some value) and Ellington (team saves a year of money) - again, this wasn't a "save money right now" deal, but save some money in the 2nd year.

More the point is the Knicks have a lot of flexibility with the cap space, POSSIBLE option to pick up and option and trade, and some extra picks this year and following 2, though obviously future picks would be more a part of something perceived as differencing making

[thebuzzardman]

It would make us better next year and maybe we compete for a playoff spot (maybe not), but where do we go from there? FVV, Bog and Harkless will probably cost a good chunk of change...then we have to extend Mitch, then by the time those contracts are up we will have to extend RJ/frp this year. Seems like it locks us into a mediocre spot and not much upside

Think I would rather save our money and just be bad again next year.

If we sign the correct players, we can even maximize the value of his owed salary and can trade them for stars.

There are a various mid value contracts with high potential players that worked great like Lavine, Caris, Sabonis, Turner, Spencer, Buddy.

The problem is we cant correctly evaluate the players and we get too many negative deals in the last years with Noah, Melo, Tim, Lee and Randle signings. Its partially because the only players who accept our offers were rejected by the others teams. This year the competition is much weaker.

I think Fred and Bogdan can be positive contracts depending on the price. I dont see many better options in 2021 FA class excepting piper dreams like Giannis, AD, Leonard.

Mercenaries usually are not proven or great potential players. Because of their lack of proven skills, they cant get long term deals.

If we dont try to build a team with good players, we will always be a laughing stock and we cant bring great FAs. Its a vicious circle. We dont get FAs because we lack a respectful team. We dont try to build a respectful team to try to get FAs with cap space.

True, it all depends on the contract. If we can get players on good deals they can be positive assets. On the other end, if we overpay they might become negative assets. I do like FVV and Bogdan. They would be great fits. But I think their teams want to keep them too. I am not expecting them to come here cheap, and it's hard to see them coming here unless we overpay. I dont see them being worth big money at this point either for the Knicks...They are more complimentary type players. Without stars I dont think they have the same value.

Its the same thing we see all the time...THJ looks great playing next to Donic...but trash on the Knicks when he is the #1 or #2 option. FVV looks great playing next to Lowry, Siakam, etc. Put him on the Knicks and he probably wont look as good. If we are playing him to be the #1 ball handler/Faciliator and a main scorer, he is probably going to disappoint. Maybe not as much as THJ...and he can still be productive, but just maybe not as much as we are paying.

We need to build from the top down and do everything we can to find to find star type players. By signing FVV and Bogdan, it hurts our draft lottery odds and takes us out of free agency which would be the 2 main avenues to find stars.

For the Knicks, I would continue trying to build thru the draft, use our cap to get assets/young players with potential, and look to sign value contracts. We really need to strike gold in the draft. I do agree with that part about getting good contracts. We probably need to look for more under the radar type players...Like I would love to resign Dotson for cheap. I would not expect him to be close to FVV/Bogdan, but in a consistent role he might be pretty productive and have some value in a cheap contract. And you never know. Its low risk. Try to find guys that could develop into a FVV or Bogdan. I know thats not easy either. But just keep trying to take low risk moves, or draft picks and eventually some will pan out. We really just need to develop some of our own players for once, rather then overpay for others. That takes some time though. It's hard to see us digging out of this hole until we do that

The hope is that Perrin and Zanin are way better at pro player evaluation than whoever was doing it before, who has hopefully been fired with the quickness.