Frank Thread 3: FIBA Frank Aftermath

[HarthorneWingo]

Any stats or clips from this top secret league?

Yes, but I cannot share them with you.

[thebuzzardman]

Any stats or clips from this top secret league?

Yes, but I cannot share them with you.

[a-French-Fan]

Probably not. But it'd be nice to see if there is any talent overseas that might show up in the next few years

Actually ... the answer is yes! Matthew Strazel as NBA prospect. Him, Frank and Andrew Albicy: our 3 good defensive point guards are playing in this Amiral League (the 3 good offensive are Heurtel, Malédon and Hayes. You may add Elie Okobo to the discussion). As young NBA player Adam Mokaka also is playing. As good french player there is also Charles Kahudi, Yakuba Outattara, Lahou Konaté, Mathias Lessort etc...

Excellent! You can be our new European Basketball Correspondent. Since the games don’t appear to be televised here, perhaps you can give us a brief game analysis of Frank’s play?

I believe Moderator GONYK will pay you well for this work. Tell him Wingo sent you.

Thanks you Wingo. But I could be only ASVEL and 2024 french national team correspondent :p (so with 2024 Olympics coming I am very high with a lot of prospects.)
And previously I talked about Strazel as NBA prospect, but I don't remind any european less tall than him. So he is more a FIBA prospect Actually (like ... Ntilikina ^^), so don't get to high on him for next draft, I wouldn't like to see him becoming a Frank 2.0.

[HarthorneWingo]

Actually ... the answer is yes! Matthew Strazel as NBA prospect. Him, Frank and Andrew Albicy: our 3 good defensive point guards are playing in this Amiral League (the 3 good offensive are Heurtel, Malédon and Hayes. You may add Elie Okobo to the discussion). As young NBA player Adam Mokaka also is playing. As good french player there is also Charles Kahudi, Yakuba Outattara, Lahou Konaté, Mathias Lessort etc...

Excellent! You can be our new European Basketball Correspondent. Since the games don’t appear to be televised here, perhaps you can give us a brief game analysis of Frank’s play?

I believe Moderator GONYK will pay you well for this work. Tell him Wingo sent you.

Thanks you Wingo. But I could be only ASVEL and 2024 french national team correspondent :p (so with 2024 Olympics coming I am very high with a lot of prospects.)
And previously I talked about Strazel as NBA prospect, but I don't remind any european less tall than him. So he is more a FIBA prospect Actually (like ... Ntilikina ^^), so don't get to high on him for next draft, I wouldn't like to see him becoming a Frank 2.0.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

[HarthorneWingo]

Actually ... the answer is yes! Matthew Strazel as NBA prospect. Him, Frank and Andrew Albicy: our 3 good defensive point guards are playing in this Amiral League (the 3 good offensive are Heurtel, Malédon and Hayes. You may add Elie Okobo to the discussion). As young NBA player Adam Mokaka also is playing. As good french player there is also Charles Kahudi, Yakuba Outattara, Lahou Konaté, Mathias Lessort etc...

Excellent! You can be our new European Basketball Correspondent. Since the games don’t appear to be televised here, perhaps you can give us a brief game analysis of Frank’s play?

I believe Moderator GONYK will pay you well for this work. Tell him Wingo sent you.

Thanks you Wingo. But I could be only ASVEL and 2024 french national team correspondent :p (so with 2024 Olympics coming I am very high with a lot of prospects.)
And previously I talked about Strazel as NBA prospect, but I don't remind any european less tall than him. So he is more a FIBA prospect Actually (like ... Ntilikina ^^), so don't get to high on him for next draft, I wouldn't like to see him becoming a Frank 2.0.

Tre bien.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

Frank has been hindered by too many coaches over a short period of time and a poor development system with the Knicks. Still, I am a big fan of Frank and hope that this is the year that he will start to reach his potential.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Actually ... the answer is yes! Matthew Strazel as NBA prospect. Him, Frank and Andrew Albicy: our 3 good defensive point guards are playing in this Amiral League (the 3 good offensive are Heurtel, Malédon and Hayes. You may add Elie Okobo to the discussion). As young NBA player Adam Mokaka also is playing. As good french player there is also Charles Kahudi, Yakuba Outattara, Lahou Konaté, Mathias Lessort etc...

Excellent! You can be our new European Basketball Correspondent. Since the games don’t appear to be televised here, perhaps you can give us a brief game analysis of Frank’s play?

I believe Moderator GONYK will pay you well for this work. Tell him Wingo sent you.

Thanks you Wingo. But I could be only ASVEL and 2024 french national team correspondent :p (so with 2024 Olympics coming I am very high with a lot of prospects.)
And previously I talked about Strazel as NBA prospect, but I don't remind any european less tall than him. So he is more a FIBA prospect Actually (like ... Ntilikina ^^), so don't get to high on him for next draft, I wouldn't like to see him becoming a Frank 2.0.

Strazel is listed at 6'0" and is 17. I imagine he'll grow a little more and probably be at least as tall as (quotedly) 6'2" Tony Parker. I imagine he's be in next year's draft. It seems like that draft will be strong but the following year will be the first year of high schoolers entering with 1&done 19 year olds and Euros of a similar age, so it's probably best to avoid 2022 if you can (as a draft prospect).

[a-French-Fan]

Excellent! You can be our new European Basketball Correspondent. Since the games don’t appear to be televised here, perhaps you can give us a brief game analysis of Frank’s play?

I believe Moderator GONYK will pay you well for this work. Tell him Wingo sent you.

Thanks you Wingo. But I could be only ASVEL and 2024 french national team correspondent :p (so with 2024 Olympics coming I am very high with a lot of prospects.)
And previously I talked about Strazel as NBA prospect, but I don't remind any european less tall than him. So he is more a FIBA prospect Actually (like ... Ntilikina ^^), so don't get to high on him for next draft, I wouldn't like to see him becoming a Frank 2.0.

Strazel is listed at 6'0" and is 17. I imagine he'll grow a little more and probably be at least as tall as (quotedly) 6'2" Tony Parker. I imagine he's be in next year's draft. It seems like that draft will be strong but the following year will be the first year of high schoolers entering with 1&done 19 year olds and Euros of a similar age, so it's probably best to avoid 2022 if you can (as a draft prospect).

I Hope one thing: franchise who draft him next year won't be as bad as Knicks with Ntilikina. We don't know yet 2021 schedule, but Strazel will have a long season, especially if he gets a sead to Tokyo. I mean Frank had a very long 2016-2017 and Knicks didn't let him rest any week during first summer ...That was like originel sin IMO

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Two questions. Not trying to insinuate but...
Is Frank a hard worker?
Does he love basketball?

[Clyde_Style]

Two questions. Not trying to insinuate but...
Is Frank a hard worker?
Does he love basketball?

He's shy and needs to adopt a more aggressive attitude on offense, but he clearly loves playing defense and you can't defend like he does if you're lazy. His arms are almost a hand's length longer than normal. His physical gifts on offense are exceptional, but his ability to see the floor defensively and anticipate plays as they evolve was always fairly elite. He's very gifted at playing D and it is always easier to love something you're already good at. So I think it is more a confidence issue on the other side of the ball. If he starts to shoot for a higher % I think his overall confidence may soar.

[knickabocker88]

Two questions. Not trying to insinuate but...
Is Frank a hard worker?
Does he love basketball?

I think so, we all saw improvement in his game. His handle, shot got better and he deffer-ed a little less to the vets this go around. Youngest Knick PG to have a 20/10 game

You don't play defense the way he does if you dont love the game.

Jimmy Butler didn't break out until year 4 with Thibs and that was with Thibs playing him 40mpg

[Clyde_Style]

Two questions. Not trying to insinuate but...
Is Frank a hard worker?
Does he love basketball?

I think so, we all saw improvement in his game. His handle, shot got better and he deffer-ed a little less to the vets this go around. Youngest Knick PG to have a 20/10 game

You don't play defense the way he does if you dont love the game.

Jimmy Butler didn't break out until year 4 with Thibs and that was with Thibs playing him 40mpg

Frank showed major improvements to his handle. He reached a point where he was pretty much able to navigate through coverage to any spot on the floor. And he started flashing more decisive moves to the rim. He needs to do it 5X more than he does, but the ability to execute on offense did manifest last season.

The most important point about Frank is that on every roster the Knicks almost always played better with Frank on the floor. People seem to ignore this and I don't know why. It is a significant metric. It just doesn't show up in his individual stats.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

I only ask cuz even a Kevin Knox who we can all agree isn’t very good right now, from all accounts, loves the game and “works hard” whatever that means. But you don’t really hear that about Frank. And the injuries sometimes feel like he’s more in business mode (protecting his body) as opposed to “can’t get him out the gym” material. I admit I can’t assume another persons pain threshold but even the French scrimmage thing....him not showing (I don’t know the specifics) just feels like his M.O. at this point. Like he’s not obsessed with the game. I dunno, just a thought.

[Clyde_Style]

I only ask cuz even a Kevin Knox who we can all agree isn’t very good right now, from all accounts, loves the game and “works hard” whatever that means. But you don’t really hear that about Frank. And the injuries sometimes feel like he’s more in business mode (protecting his body) as opposed to “can’t get him out the gym” material. I admit I can’t assume another persons pain threshold but even the French scrimmage thing....him not showing (I don’t know the specifics) just feels like his M.O. at this point. Like he’s not obsessed with the game. I dunno, just a thought.

Knox has no motor and has no definitive skill on either end of the floor. By comparison, Frank has always had his defensive prowess to depend on to distinguish himself and build confidence with no matter what his other struggles were.

Frank shows out as a fairly cerebral player who DOES understand the offensive schemes. He is actually quite competent at executing the PnR and high-low dish plays, but the stupid coaches somehow didn't emphasize these bread and butter plays. All told, Frank's hoops IQ is above average overall.

Knox has looked lost since he came into the league and there are not too many signs yet his hoops IQ are decent and merely waiting to be developed.

And Knox seems to lack the hunger. He seems like he's going through the motions a lot of the time, but I think much of that was always due to him now knowing WTF he's doing out there on the floor. It is hard to play with passion when you're a deer in the headlights.

If something clicks and he starts to understand the game, maybe Knox will come off as more engaged. So far he seems too detached to take that seriously.

Finally, Knox usually has some of the worst body language I've seen in a pro, EVER. He sulks, hangs his head, it is embarrassing. He seems like a ten year old too often and not a pro player.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

I only ask cuz even a Kevin Knox who we can all agree isn’t very good right now, from all accounts, loves the game and “works hard” whatever that means. But you don’t really hear that about Frank. And the injuries sometimes feel like he’s more in business mode (protecting his body) as opposed to “can’t get him out the gym” material. I admit I can’t assume another persons pain threshold but even the French scrimmage thing....him not showing (I don’t know the specifics) just feels like his M.O. at this point. Like he’s not obsessed with the game. I dunno, just a thought.

Knox has no motor and has no definitive skill on either end of the floor. By comparison, Frank has always had his defensive prowess to depend on to distinguish himself and build confidence with no matter what his other struggles were.

Frank shows out as a fairly cerebral player who DOES understand the offensive schemes. He is actually quite competent at executing the PnR and high-low dish plays, but the stupid coaches somehow didn't emphasize these bread and butter plays. All told, Frank's hoops IQ is above average overall.

Knox has looked lost since he came into the league and there are not too many signs yet his hoops IQ are decent and merely waiting to be developed.

And Knox seems to lack the hunger. He seems like he's going through the motions a lot of the time, but I think much of that was always due to him now knowing WTF he's doing out there on the floor. It is hard to play with passion when you're a deer in the headlights.

If something clicks and he starts to understand the game, maybe Knox will come off as more engaged. So far he seems too detached to take that seriously.

Finally, Knox usually has some of the worst body language I've seen in a pro, EVER. He sulks, hangs his head, it is embarrassing. He seems like a ten year old too often and not a pro player.

I agree on most of what you say here but Knox, IMO is just immature. We see the motor issues but I don’t think that’s a product of him not loving the game or working hard. I just think he really has some growing up to do all around and maybe he has to get roughed up some. I actually don’t think he’s soft. I think he’s been developed poorly...kinda like Frank.

And please don’t get me defending Knox lol cuz I was just trying to underscore a point about Frank lol.

[Clyde_Style]

I only ask cuz even a Kevin Knox who we can all agree isn’t very good right now, from all accounts, loves the game and “works hard” whatever that means. But you don’t really hear that about Frank. And the injuries sometimes feel like he’s more in business mode (protecting his body) as opposed to “can’t get him out the gym” material. I admit I can’t assume another persons pain threshold but even the French scrimmage thing....him not showing (I don’t know the specifics) just feels like his M.O. at this point. Like he’s not obsessed with the game. I dunno, just a thought.

Knox has no motor and has no definitive skill on either end of the floor. By comparison, Frank has always had his defensive prowess to depend on to distinguish himself and build confidence with no matter what his other struggles were.

Frank shows out as a fairly cerebral player who DOES understand the offensive schemes. He is actually quite competent at executing the PnR and high-low dish plays, but the stupid coaches somehow didn't emphasize these bread and butter plays. All told, Frank's hoops IQ is above average overall.

Knox has looked lost since he came into the league and there are not too many signs yet his hoops IQ are decent and merely waiting to be developed.

And Knox seems to lack the hunger. He seems like he's going through the motions a lot of the time, but I think much of that was always due to him now knowing WTF he's doing out there on the floor. It is hard to play with passion when you're a deer in the headlights.

If something clicks and he starts to understand the game, maybe Knox will come off as more engaged. So far he seems too detached to take that seriously.

Finally, Knox usually has some of the worst body language I've seen in a pro, EVER. He sulks, hangs his head, it is embarrassing. He seems like a ten year old too often and not a pro player.

I agree on most of what you say here but Knox, IMO is just immature. We see the motor issues but I don’t think that’s a product of him not loving the game or working hard. I just think he really has some growing up to do all around and maybe he has to get roughed up some. I actually don’t think he’s soft. I think he’s been developed poorly...kinda like Frank.

And please don’t get me defending Knox lol cuz I was just trying to underscore a point about Frank lol.

I'm open to seeing Knox turn a corner due to experience and gaining maturity.

Certainly I agree there is every reason to wait and see. I don't see any point on giving up on him already. He's long as hell and could end up being a good offensive player even if he is never more than ordinary as a defender. But he'll have to be adequate on D if he wants to play for Thibs so basically I think this is it for Knox. If he's not traded, he has one season to demonstrate growth or I expect the Knicks will move on from him.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Knox has no motor and has no definitive skill on either end of the floor. By comparison, Frank has always had his defensive prowess to depend on to distinguish himself and build confidence with no matter what his other struggles were.

Frank shows out as a fairly cerebral player who DOES understand the offensive schemes. He is actually quite competent at executing the PnR and high-low dish plays, but the stupid coaches somehow didn't emphasize these bread and butter plays. All told, Frank's hoops IQ is above average overall.

Knox has looked lost since he came into the league and there are not too many signs yet his hoops IQ are decent and merely waiting to be developed.

And Knox seems to lack the hunger. He seems like he's going through the motions a lot of the time, but I think much of that was always due to him now knowing WTF he's doing out there on the floor. It is hard to play with passion when you're a deer in the headlights.

If something clicks and he starts to understand the game, maybe Knox will come off as more engaged. So far he seems too detached to take that seriously.

Finally, Knox usually has some of the worst body language I've seen in a pro, EVER. He sulks, hangs his head, it is embarrassing. He seems like a ten year old too often and not a pro player.

I agree on most of what you say here but Knox, IMO is just immature. We see the motor issues but I don’t think that’s a product of him not loving the game or working hard. I just think he really has some growing up to do all around and maybe he has to get roughed up some. I actually don’t think he’s soft. I think he’s been developed poorly...kinda like Frank.

And please don’t get me defending Knox lol cuz I was just trying to underscore a point about Frank lol.

I'm open to seeing Knox turn a corner due to experience and gaining maturity.

Certainly I agree there is every reason to wait and see. I don't see any point on giving up on him already. He's long as hell and could end up being a good offensive player even if he is never more than ordinary as a defender. But he'll have to be adequate on D if he wants to play for Thibs so basically I think this is it for Knox. If he's not traded, he has one season to demonstrate growth or I expect the Knicks will move on from him.

I honestly think Knox needs to get angry. I think that’ll unlock his potential. He doesn’t strike me as a sucker. I don’t think his dad was soft on him. I just think maybe there’s some paralysis by analysis going on....

Sorry to derail tho.

[MaseInYourFace]

I only ask cuz even a Kevin Knox who we can all agree isn’t very good right now, from all accounts, loves the game and “works hard” whatever that means. But you don’t really hear that about Frank. And the injuries sometimes feel like he’s more in business mode (protecting his body) as opposed to “can’t get him out the gym” material. I admit I can’t assume another persons pain threshold but even the French scrimmage thing....him not showing (I don’t know the specifics) just feels like his M.O. at this point. Like he’s not obsessed with the game. I dunno, just a thought.

Knox has no motor and has no definitive skill on either end of the floor. By comparison, Frank has always had his defensive prowess to depend on to distinguish himself and build confidence with no matter what his other struggles were.

Frank shows out as a fairly cerebral player who DOES understand the offensive schemes. He is actually quite competent at executing the PnR and high-low dish plays, but the stupid coaches somehow didn't emphasize these bread and butter plays. All told, Frank's hoops IQ is above average overall.

Knox has looked lost since he came into the league and there are not too many signs yet his hoops IQ are decent and merely waiting to be developed.

And Knox seems to lack the hunger. He seems like he's going through the motions a lot of the time, but I think much of that was always due to him now knowing WTF he's doing out there on the floor. It is hard to play with passion when you're a deer in the headlights.

If something clicks and he starts to understand the game, maybe Knox will come off as more engaged. So far he seems too detached to take that seriously.

Finally, Knox usually has some of the worst body language I've seen in a pro, EVER. He sulks, hangs his head, it is embarrassing. He seems like a ten year old too often and not a pro player.

Frank has had his moments where you question his motivation and hunger. He can be a bit passive. I remember some quotes of things Frank said (maybe he expressed himself poorly in English which is not his native language) where it seemed he was complacent and didn’t want to fight for his place in nba. However, I don’t think it’s a lack of motor thing with him like it is with Knox. I think it is more of a confidence and mindset thing on offense with Frank.

[Clyde_Style]

I only ask cuz even a Kevin Knox who we can all agree isn’t very good right now, from all accounts, loves the game and “works hard” whatever that means. But you don’t really hear that about Frank. And the injuries sometimes feel like he’s more in business mode (protecting his body) as opposed to “can’t get him out the gym” material. I admit I can’t assume another persons pain threshold but even the French scrimmage thing....him not showing (I don’t know the specifics) just feels like his M.O. at this point. Like he’s not obsessed with the game. I dunno, just a thought.

Knox has no motor and has no definitive skill on either end of the floor. By comparison, Frank has always had his defensive prowess to depend on to distinguish himself and build confidence with no matter what his other struggles were.

Frank shows out as a fairly cerebral player who DOES understand the offensive schemes. He is actually quite competent at executing the PnR and high-low dish plays, but the stupid coaches somehow didn't emphasize these bread and butter plays. All told, Frank's hoops IQ is above average overall.

Knox has looked lost since he came into the league and there are not too many signs yet his hoops IQ are decent and merely waiting to be developed.

And Knox seems to lack the hunger. He seems like he's going through the motions a lot of the time, but I think much of that was always due to him now knowing WTF he's doing out there on the floor. It is hard to play with passion when you're a deer in the headlights.

If something clicks and he starts to understand the game, maybe Knox will come off as more engaged. So far he seems too detached to take that seriously.

Finally, Knox usually has some of the worst body language I've seen in a pro, EVER. He sulks, hangs his head, it is embarrassing. He seems like a ten year old too often and not a pro player.

Frank has had his moments where you question his motivation and hunger. He can be a bit passive. I remember some quotes of things Frank said (maybe he expressed himself poorly in English which is not his native language) where it seemed he was complacent and didn’t want to fight for his place in nba. However, I don’t think it’s a lack of motor thing with him like it is with Knox. I think it is more of a confidence and mindset thing on offense with Frank.

I understand that. I would like to see what a season under proper management and coaching will do for him. The way this franchise handled him was atrocious and it shouldn't be surprising if it got him down sometimes.

[SmoothLefty21]

I've said all along that Frank's confidence is his biggest issue. He doesn't trust his body or his game yet. We see flashes every now and then but he still doesn't realize just how open he is sometimes, especially when attacking the basket.

I'm still a believer long term, and I think he can be a better offensive player than most realize (12-14 ppg) while giving you all-league defense.