More talented Wade, Harden or CP3

limbo · Post #21 » by **limbo** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:09 am

If this is another way of asking which player leveraged their physical advantage less in order to be effective, the answer is Paul...

Wade and Harden both got more out of their athleticism, height, strength and vert...

JN61 · Post #22 » by **JN61** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:55 pm

Harden has no doubt the most complete game. But he also needs to get more of team concept. Maybe this year he can rely on Westbrook more.

SerialChiller · Post #23 » by **SerialChiller** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:00 pm

JN61 wrote:Harden has no doubt the most complete game. But he also needs to get more of team concept. Maybe this year he can rely on Westbrook more.

What now!? The guy who only plays one side of the ball and does nothing in the midrange on offense has the most complete game no doubt? Not buying that for a second. Wade and Paul were both better all around players.

Ambrose · Post #24 » by **Ambrose** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:04 pm

LarsV8 wrote:
Ambrose wrote:Wade. If either Harden or CP3 had Wade's physical profile they would be better than he was.

Sure it does. They are both far more skilled than Wade.

birdlives_ma · Post #25 » by **birdlives_ma** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:29 pm

JB2 wrote:Talented in god given talent or talented in most skilled?

Yeah, talent could mean so many things.

If we're talking god given, obviously Wade. Skill-wise, it's CP for me.

NYPiston · Post #26 » by **NYPiston** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:49 pm

Talent is such a subjective term.
Talent to me is a mix of athleticism and pure basketball skill. If you blend all of that, Wade is definitely the most naturally talented athlete of the three IMO. CP3 the strongest mentally of the three with his insane level of competitiveness and will to win. Harden might be the most skilled but the least athletic. Interesting debate

Birth of the Cool · Post #27 » by **Birth of the Cool** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:50 pm

Wade's cheat move is jumping into defenders initiating contact to get a foul...it really should be no call or offensive foul on Wade. He was the King of this. He's also had a history of being a dirty player.

Harden is the new King of creating contact that some would say should be no calls or offensive fouls. However, he has superior court vision and passing touch to Wade, better handles and has a wider array of moves.

Chris Paul is King Flopper. Otherwise he has all the basketball talent in the world so I guess I'd go with him. Wade would definitely be the last of the three.

Not sure why people are bringing up playoff success etc in a post about talent. This isn't about success if I read the OP correctly. It's about who has the most talent (skills).

Post #28 » by **KingDavid** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:17 pm

Birth of the Cool wrote:Wade's cheat move is jumping into defenders initiating contact to get a foul...it really should be no call or offensive foul on Wade. He was the King of this. He's also had a history of being a dirty player.

Harden is the new King of creating contact that some would say should be no calls or offensive fouls. However, he has superior court vision and passing touch to Wade, better handles and has a wider array of moves.

Chris Paul is King Flopper. Otherwise he has all the basketball talent in the world so I guess I'd go with him. Wade would definitely be the last of the three.

Not sure why people are bringing up playoff success etc in a post about talent. This isn't about success if I read the OP correctly. It's about who has the most talent (skills).

I guess playing off the ball, defense, and post game isn't talent based, either.

I wouldn't be so sure about superior court vision. Wade is an elite passer too.

Post #29 » by **DayofMourning** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:37 pm

SerialChiller wrote:
JN61 wrote:Harden has no doubt the most complete game. But he also needs to get more of team concept. Maybe this year he can rely on Westbrook more.

What now!? The guy who only plays one side of the ball and does nothing in the midrange on offense has the most complete game no doubt? Not buying that for a second. Wade and Paul were both better all around players.

Yeah, that was a weird thing to say. Wade and Paul are clearly the better overall players here. There's no argument there.

PistolPeteJR · Post #30 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:16 pm

I'm going CP, but Wade has the highest peak of the three.

Crizzle · Post #31 » by **Crizzle** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:28 pm

You can argue that cp3 is a top 2 -3 PG ever even without hardware/finals appearances. That says something

dhsilv2 · Post #32 » by **dhsilv2** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:32 pm

Paul and I think he actually has this by a margin, with one exception. If Paul never gets injured in 2010, I just have no idea how insanely good he would have been. In terms of raw talent, he had the potential to have been a top 5 or 10 all timer. But maybe that injury was just inevitable? if that's the case, not being built as durable is a lack of talent too.

So yeah, I'll go with Paul and I think he's got a meaningful gap over these two. What he did in 2008 and 2009 was just insane, if he'd kept that athletic ability and combined it with his growth over the years, we really could be looking at a GOAT level guy.

Sign5 · Post #33 » by **Sign5** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:50 pm

[code][/code]

Crizzle wrote:You can argue that cp3 is a top 2 -3 PG ever even without hardware/finals appearances. That says something

No you cant because hes certainly not over Magic, Curry and Oscar.

This is Wade.

CodeBreaker · Post #34 » by **CodeBreaker** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:01 pm

Suprasc1 wrote:Wade couldn't even beat the 2011 mavs

CP3 and Harden couldn't even win a ring

Pelly24 · Post #35 » by **Pelly24** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:32 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:Paul and I think he actually has this by a margin, with one exception. If Paul never gets injured in 2010, I just have no idea how insanely good he would have been. In terms of raw talent, he had the potential to have been a top 5 or 10 all timer. But maybe that injury was just inevitable? if that's the case, not being built as durable is a lack of talent too.

So yeah, I'll go with Paul and I think he's got a meaningful gap over these two. What he did in 2008 and 2009 was just insane, if he'd kept that athletic ability and combined it with his growth over the years, we really could be looking at a GOAT level guy.

I think it was just durability. I also never saw a huge dropoff in effectiveness in athleticism.

But CP3 is maybe the most skilled and fundamentally sound player I've ever seen. Great jumper, great touch, great vision, great instincts, GOAT-level handle, amazing passer. If he were 6'4" instead of 6'0" that would've given him the physicaility to be a more dominant scorer (even though he was a very good one). Put 2009 CP3 on a team with Anthony Davis or someone who could do the scoring heavy lifting he'd have a chip and be seen as a top 10-15 player ever. Should be top 30 regardless (top 25 for me).

dhsilv2 · Post #36 » by **dhsilv2** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:41 pm

Pelly24 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:Paul and I think he actually has this by a margin, with one exception. If Paul never gets injured in 2010, I just have no idea how insanely good he would have been. In terms of raw talent, he had the potential to have been a top 5 or 10 all timer. But maybe that injury was just inevitable? if that's the case, not being built as durable is a lack of talent too.

So yeah, I'll go with Paul and I think he's got a meaningful gap over these two. What he did in 2008 and 2009 was just insane, if he'd kept that athletic ability and combined it with his growth over the years, we really could be looking at a GOAT level guy.

I think it was just durability. I also never saw a huge dropoff in effectiveness in athleticism.

But CP3 is maybe the most skilled and fundamentally sound player I've ever seen. Great jumper, great touch, great vision, great instincts, GOAT-level handle, amazing passer. If he were 6'4" instead of 6'0" that would've given him the physicaility to be a more dominant scorer (even though he was a very good one). Put 2009 CP3 on a team with Anthony Davis or someone who could do the scoring heavy lifting he'd have a chip and be seen as a top 10-15 player ever. Should be top 30 regardless (top 25 for me).

I think he very clearly lost some explosiveness which is the difference in 1st team all nba and best player in the league imo. It also would given him just that extra bit of vertical off the dribble or going to the rim or driving past guys where he could have been just that much better a scorer. I can't imagine any player could play bone on bone in one knee and not lose something athletically and at the nba level, those differences REALLY matter.

Air Apparent · Post #37 » by **Air Apparent** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:02 pm

CodeBreaker wrote:
Suprasc1 wrote:Wade couldn't even beat the 2011 mavs

CP3 and Harden couldn't even win a ring

wade was beating them, but bron was too busy sabotaging wades finals mvp

Crizzle · Post #38 » by **Crizzle** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:08 pm

Sign5 wrote:[code][/code]
Crizzle wrote:You can argue that cp3 is a top 2 -3 PG ever even without hardware/finals appearances. That says something

No you cant because hes certainly not over Magic, Curry and Oscar.

This is Wade.

You absolutely can.

heatwillbeback · Post #39 » by **heatwillbeback** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:12 pm

You have three extremely different players.

I would say Harden is most skilled, Wade most athletic and Paul the smartest/savviest of the three.

As for the best player, I may be biased but I think Wade’s peak was best, albeit short.

Post #40 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:13 pm

What do you mean by talent? And why isn’t athleticism a talent?