NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread

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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#221 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:01 am

Catchall wrote:This looks like a pretty deep 2nd round this year. I like Tillie, Nnaji, Nwora, Hughes, Butler, Kispert, Pritchard, Perry, Tre Jones, Mason Jones, and at least a couple other guys to make NBA rotations. Add Hinton and Jalen Harris from Nevada.


I'm starting to like this draft quite a bit, I think it is really deep. That, or everyone is so bad it just looks deep.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#222 » by Catchall » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:45 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:This looks like a pretty deep 2nd round this year. I like Tillie, Nnaji, Nwora, Hughes, Butler, Kispert, Pritchard, Perry, Tre Jones, Mason Jones, and at least a couple other guys to make NBA rotations. Add Hinton and Jalen Harris from Nevada.


I'm starting to like this draft quite a bit, I think it is really deep. That, or everyone is so bad it just looks deep.


Nearly all those guys should be basic rotation players. I'd also consider taking a flyer on Karim Mane, Kenyon Martin's kid, or Josh Hall as UFAs.

I think this draft is markedly better than 2016.

This is Josh Hall btw...

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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#223 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:47 am

Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:This looks like a pretty deep 2nd round this year. I like Tillie, Nnaji, Nwora, Hughes, Butler, Kispert, Pritchard, Perry, Tre Jones, Mason Jones, and at least a couple other guys to make NBA rotations. Add Hinton and Jalen Harris from Nevada.


I'm starting to like this draft quite a bit, I think it is really deep. That, or everyone is so bad it just looks deep.


Nearly all those guys should be basic rotation players. I'd also consider taking a flyer on Karim Mane, Kenyon Martin's kid, or Josh Hall as UFAs.

I think this draft is markedly better than 2016.


Maybe in terms of depth, but definitely not on the top end [Simmons/Ingram/Brown/Hield/Murray/Sabonis in the lottery].
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#224 » by Catchall » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:00 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I'm starting to like this draft quite a bit, I think it is really deep. That, or everyone is so bad it just looks deep.


Nearly all those guys should be basic rotation players. I'd also consider taking a flyer on Karim Mane, Kenyon Martin's kid, or Josh Hall as UFAs.

I think this draft is markedly better than 2016.


Maybe in terms of depth, but definitely not on the top end [Simmons/Ingram/Brown/Hield/Murray/Sabonis in the lottery].


You say that now, but Toppin, Wiseman, Okoro, Vassell, Williams, Pokusevski could be as good as those guys, and there are a ton of guards.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#225 » by babyjax13 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:09 am

Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Nearly all those guys should be basic rotation players. I'd also consider taking a flyer on Karim Mane, Kenyon Martin's kid, or Josh Hall as UFAs.

I think this draft is markedly better than 2016.


Maybe in terms of depth, but definitely not on the top end [Simmons/Ingram/Brown/Hield/Murray/Sabonis in the lottery].


You say that now, but Toppin, Wiseman, Okoro, Vassell, Williams, Pokusevski could be as good as those guys, and there are a ton of guards.


Those would be huge outlier outcomes. There is not a single player in this draft that people are talking about as a likely franchise type player, Simmons was getting that kind of treatment, and Ingram was regarded as an excellent prospect, too. Then it fell off quite a bit, but still had some nice players. I think Wiseman is *maybe*, *maybe* in that Ingram tier (or just below).
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#226 » by sipclip » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:27 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Maybe in terms of depth, but definitely not on the top end [Simmons/Ingram/Brown/Hield/Murray/Sabonis in the lottery].


You say that now, but Toppin, Wiseman, Okoro, Vassell, Williams, Pokusevski could be as good as those guys, and there are a ton of guards.


Those would be huge outlier outcomes. There is not a single player in this draft that people are talking about as a likely franchise type player, Simmons was getting that kind of treatment, and Ingram was regarded as an excellent prospect, too. Then it fell off quite a bit, but still had some nice players. I think Wiseman is *maybe*, *maybe* in that Ingram tier (or just below).


None of this matters because we aren't drafting in the top 10. The only thing that matters for us is the role player depth of this draft and I'm loving it. Nwora is still my target but if it looks like we can get him in the 2nd rd rather than the 1st then hell yeah. If I'm the jazz and I can come out of this draft with either Jaden McDaniels, Jalen Smith or Saddiq Bey with our 1st rd pick and move up in the second round and grab to grab Nwora then I would be happy as hell. Add Corey Kispert and Isaiah Joe at the end of the 2nd round and I would call it a home run.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#227 » by Catchall » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:01 pm

Paul Reed working. The form of his jumper is improving. Still kind of looks like Rasheed Wallace on meth.

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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#228 » by Catchall » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:59 am

I just did a mock-draft exercise, and Pokusevski dropped all the way to 21. I wonder if the Jazz can trade up and get him. If he gets past Boston and Dallas, he could fall near our range.

Pokusevski played a little with Nigel Williams-Goss at Olympiacos. He has to be on the Jazz's radar.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#229 » by Catchall » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:47 pm

sipclip wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
You say that now, but Toppin, Wiseman, Okoro, Vassell, Williams, Pokusevski could be as good as those guys, and there are a ton of guards.


Those would be huge outlier outcomes. There is not a single player in this draft that people are talking about as a likely franchise type player, Simmons was getting that kind of treatment, and Ingram was regarded as an excellent prospect, too. Then it fell off quite a bit, but still had some nice players. I think Wiseman is *maybe*, *maybe* in that Ingram tier (or just below).


None of this matters because we aren't drafting in the top 10. The only thing that matters for us is the role player depth of this draft and I'm loving it. Nwora is still my target but if it looks like we can get him in the 2nd rd rather than the 1st then hell yeah. If I'm the jazz and I can come out of this draft with either Jaden McDaniels, Jalen Smith or Saddiq Bey with our 1st rd pick and move up in the second round and grab to grab Nwora then I would be happy as hell. Add Corey Kispert and Isaiah Joe at the end of the 2nd round and I would call it a home run.


I want to move up and take Pokusevski.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#230 » by sipclip » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:16 pm

Catchall wrote:
sipclip wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
Those would be huge outlier outcomes. There is not a single player in this draft that people are talking about as a likely franchise type player, Simmons was getting that kind of treatment, and Ingram was regarded as an excellent prospect, too. Then it fell off quite a bit, but still had some nice players. I think Wiseman is *maybe*, *maybe* in that Ingram tier (or just below).


None of this matters because we aren't drafting in the top 10. The only thing that matters for us is the role player depth of this draft and I'm loving it. Nwora is still my target but if it looks like we can get him in the 2nd rd rather than the 1st then hell yeah. If I'm the jazz and I can come out of this draft with either Jaden McDaniels, Jalen Smith or Saddiq Bey with our 1st rd pick and move up in the second round and grab to grab Nwora then I would be happy as hell. Add Corey Kispert and Isaiah Joe at the end of the 2nd round and I would call it a home run.


I want to move up and take Pokusevski.


I think he end ups going top 10 and we have zero assets to be able to move up that far. I can't imagine him getting past the spurs at 11. Royce was really our only tradeable cheap asset and now he is likely viewed as being overpaid we are back to nothing. It is truly amazing the position that management has put us in.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#231 » by babyjax13 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:11 am

sipclip wrote:
Catchall wrote:
sipclip wrote:
None of this matters because we aren't drafting in the top 10. The only thing that matters for us is the role player depth of this draft and I'm loving it. Nwora is still my target but if it looks like we can get him in the 2nd rd rather than the 1st then hell yeah. If I'm the jazz and I can come out of this draft with either Jaden McDaniels, Jalen Smith or Saddiq Bey with our 1st rd pick and move up in the second round and grab to grab Nwora then I would be happy as hell. Add Corey Kispert and Isaiah Joe at the end of the 2nd round and I would call it a home run.


I want to move up and take Pokusevski.


I think he end ups going top 10 and we have zero assets to be able to move up that far. I can't imagine him getting past the spurs at 11. Royce was really our only tradeable cheap asset and now he is likely viewed as being overpaid we are back to nothing. It is truly amazing the position that management has put us in.


I don't see how Royce could be seen as overpaid. He's making less than the MLE, locked up long term, a good shooter, and an incredible defender. I wouldn't trade him straight up for the 11th pick in this draft. Also, I see the allure of Pouk, but I've never seen a player enter the draft with such a horrificly thin physical profile...not Durant, not Giannis, not anyone.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#232 » by Catchall » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:20 am

babyjax13 wrote:
sipclip wrote:
Catchall wrote:
I want to move up and take Pokusevski.


I think he end ups going top 10 and we have zero assets to be able to move up that far. I can't imagine him getting past the spurs at 11. Royce was really our only tradeable cheap asset and now he is likely viewed as being overpaid we are back to nothing. It is truly amazing the position that management has put us in.


I don't see how Royce could be seen as overpaid. He's making less than the MLE, locked up long term, a good shooter, and an incredible defender. I wouldn't trade him straight up for the 11th pick in this draft. Also, I see the allure of Pouk, but I've never seen a player enter the draft with such a horrificly thin physical profile...not Durant, not Giannis, not anyone.


Pokusevski only 18 and he actually has a good frame. In particular he has a good base with solid legs. He reminds me of Kirilenko in that sense. I don't doubt he'll get over 220 lbs and play the 4 effectively. The one I'd worry about is McDaniels adding weight.

Royce is respected around the league as a tough, low-usage player who can hit 3s. He's like the wing version of PJ Tucker. I think teams will be asking for him in trade discussions with the Jazz. I also think that in the right scenario, the Jazz might be able to trade 24 + Royce to move up into the mid-late teens. It would have to be a team like Orlando, Minnesota or Brooklyn that wants veterans more than young players and wants to double-dip for a second rotation player at #24.

I would make this move for Poku, since he raises the Jazz's ceiling, and Royce's usage on offense is so low that he might be replaceable off our bench. I might even consider this move for Saddiq Bey, not sure.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#233 » by babyjax13 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:25 am

Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
sipclip wrote:
I think he end ups going top 10 and we have zero assets to be able to move up that far. I can't imagine him getting past the spurs at 11. Royce was really our only tradeable cheap asset and now he is likely viewed as being overpaid we are back to nothing. It is truly amazing the position that management has put us in.


I don't see how Royce could be seen as overpaid. He's making less than the MLE, locked up long term, a good shooter, and an incredible defender. I wouldn't trade him straight up for the 11th pick in this draft. Also, I see the allure of Pouk, but I've never seen a player enter the draft with such a horrificly thin physical profile...not Durant, not Giannis, not anyone.


Pokusevski only 18 and he actually has a good frame. In particular he has a good base with solid legs. He reminds me of Kirilenko in that sense. I don't doubt he'll get over 220 lbs and play the 4 effectively. The one I'd worry about is McDaniels adding weight.

Royce is respected around the league as a tough, low-usage player who can hit 3s. He's like the wing version of PJ Tucker. I think teams will be asking for him in trade discussions with the Jazz. I also think that in the right scenario, the Jazz might be able to trade 24 + Royce to move up into the mid-late teens. It would have to be a team like Orlando, Minnesota or Brooklyn that wants veterans more than young players and wants to double-dip for a second rotation player at #24.

I would make this move for Poku, since he raises the Jazz's ceiling, and Royce's usage on offense is so low that he might be replaceable off our bench. I might even consider this move for Saddiq Bey, not sure.


If you buy Poku, and the opportunity cost is Royce + 24, I think that's reasonable. I don't buy him becoming a star, and I like the range in the draft we are in, but I also would not be aghast if such a trade happened (I just may not do it for Poku, I'd rather just draft Reed).
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#234 » by Catchall » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:45 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Catchall wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I don't see how Royce could be seen as overpaid. He's making less than the MLE, locked up long term, a good shooter, and an incredible defender. I wouldn't trade him straight up for the 11th pick in this draft. Also, I see the allure of Pouk, but I've never seen a player enter the draft with such a horrificly thin physical profile...not Durant, not Giannis, not anyone.


Pokusevski only 18 and he actually has a good frame. In particular he has a good base with solid legs. He reminds me of Kirilenko in that sense. I don't doubt he'll get over 220 lbs and play the 4 effectively. The one I'd worry about is McDaniels adding weight.

Royce is respected around the league as a tough, low-usage player who can hit 3s. He's like the wing version of PJ Tucker. I think teams will be asking for him in trade discussions with the Jazz. I also think that in the right scenario, the Jazz might be able to trade 24 + Royce to move up into the mid-late teens. It would have to be a team like Orlando, Minnesota or Brooklyn that wants veterans more than young players and wants to double-dip for a second rotation player at #24.

I would make this move for Poku, since he raises the Jazz's ceiling, and Royce's usage on offense is so low that he might be replaceable off our bench. I might even consider this move for Saddiq Bey, not sure.


If you buy Poku, and the opportunity cost is Royce + 24, I think that's reasonable. I don't buy him becoming a star, and I like the range in the draft we are in, but I also would not be aghast if such a trade happened (I just may not do it for Poku, I'd rather just draft Reed).


A 7-footer who can rip 3s off the dribble is going to have tremendous gravity, and his passing, handle and mobility are all high-level as well. It's too much upside to pass up for me. I love that he's aggressive and plays downhill, always in attack mode. I do see some fringe All Star potential for him, but it would probably be like an AK47 or Davis Bertans getting picked by the coaches to get in. I could see Poku averaging as much as 17/7/3 with a block and a steal.

Paul Reed's utter best-case scenario would be like a modern-day version of Rasheed Wallace, imo, but his shooting would have come a long way. I don't think his handle and passing are going to be good enough at the next level to do much more than straight-line drive. He's not fluid or shifty enough to play off the dribble like a Siakam. He'd be a good pick for the Jazz due to his defense alone.

If the Jazz can't move up, I like Reed, Bolmaro and maybe Maledon for them. I don't know what to think about McDaniels. He needs to come into the Combine with an extra 8 - 10 lbs and show more maturity.

Players in this draft like Toppin, Okoro, Vassell, and possibly Pokusevski could take the Jazz from a 55-win team to a 60+-win team.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#235 » by sipclip » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:58 am

babyjax13 wrote:
sipclip wrote:
Catchall wrote:
I want to move up and take Pokusevski.


I think he end ups going top 10 and we have zero assets to be able to move up that far. I can't imagine him getting past the spurs at 11. Royce was really our only tradeable cheap asset and now he is likely viewed as being overpaid we are back to nothing. It is truly amazing the position that management has put us in.


I don't see how Royce could be seen as overpaid. He's making less than the MLE, locked up long term, a good shooter, and an incredible defender. I wouldn't trade him straight up for the 11th pick in this draft. Also, I see the allure of Pouk, but I've never seen a player enter the draft with such a horrificly thin physical profile...not Durant, not Giannis, not anyone.
Man Royce has become overrated. He is a good defender but not even close to being an incredible defender. Offensively he needs to increase his usage quite a bit to become an asset on that end of court.

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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#236 » by Catchall » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:50 am

sipclip wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
sipclip wrote:
I think he end ups going top 10 and we have zero assets to be able to move up that far. I can't imagine him getting past the spurs at 11. Royce was really our only tradeable cheap asset and now he is likely viewed as being overpaid we are back to nothing. It is truly amazing the position that management has put us in.


I don't see how Royce could be seen as overpaid. He's making less than the MLE, locked up long term, a good shooter, and an incredible defender. I wouldn't trade him straight up for the 11th pick in this draft. Also, I see the allure of Pouk, but I've never seen a player enter the draft with such a horrificly thin physical profile...not Durant, not Giannis, not anyone.
Man Royce has become overrated. He is a good defender but not even close to being an incredible defender. Offensively he needs to increase his usage quite a bit to become an asset on that end of court.

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Wing defense is a huge need for every team in the league, and Royce is one of the 10 best wing defenders. He has value.

As for what the Spurs do at #11, I think Patrick Williams or Isaac Okoro would be their priority.
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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#237 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:14 am

Ive been saying this for years, but the Jazz need to change their draft philosophy, which for the most part has been drafting safe, but guys that they could pick up easily in free agency. Instead the Jazz, who are not a top tier free agent destination, need to swing for the fences in the draft. They could have bought into the early 2nd rd last year.

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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#238 » by sipclip » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:21 pm

Catchall wrote:
sipclip wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
I don't see how Royce could be seen as overpaid. He's making less than the MLE, locked up long term, a good shooter, and an incredible defender. I wouldn't trade him straight up for the 11th pick in this draft. Also, I see the allure of Pouk, but I've never seen a player enter the draft with such a horrificly thin physical profile...not Durant, not Giannis, not anyone.
Man Royce has become overrated. He is a good defender but not even close to being an incredible defender. Offensively he needs to increase his usage quite a bit to become an asset on that end of court.

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Wing defense is a huge need for every team in the league, and Royce is one of the 10 best wing defenders. He has value.

As for what the Spurs do at #11, I think Patrick Williams or Isaac Okoro would be their priority.
No Royce is not a top 10 perimeter defender in the league. There is a reason why perimeter players regularly destroy this team and that is because we don't have an elite perimeter player to put on the opposing teams top players. These are the perimeter players that I feel are clearly better than Royce defensively in my opinion.

Kawhi
PG
Beverly
Danny Green
Jason Tatum
Chris Paul
Torrey Craig
Garry Harris
Jimmy Butler
Ben Simmons
Robert Covington
Eric Bledsoe
Dejounte Murray
Marcus Smart
Lonzo Ball
Kris Dunn
Lowry

Those are the guys that are clearly ahead of him for me. Then you have a bunch of guys like Norman Powell, OG Anunoby, Josh Richardson, Khris Middleton, PJ Tucker, Harkless and a few other guys that I view him similar to. This off-season I think Harkless could probably be had for 4 million a year or less and I think he would be just as effective as O'Neale for us. That doesn't mean that I don't like Royce but to me this elite defender talk doesn't match with the reality of us regularly getting roasted by non elite perimeter players. When you have an elite perimeter player you give him the assignment to cool those guys and we clearly don't have that player right now based on the results on the court.

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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#239 » by sipclip » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:29 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:Ive been saying this for years, but the Jazz need to change their draft philosophy, which for the most part has been drafting safe, but guys that they could pick up easily in free agency. Instead the Jazz, who are not a top tier free agent destination, need to swing for the fences in the draft. They could have bought into the early 2nd rd last year.

The nugs front office has been on point lately with what they have been doing on draft day. They are taking the no brainer risks with high upside guys as well as finding some gems like Monte Morris.

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Re: NBA 2020 Draft Prospects Thread 

Post#240 » by babyjax13 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:38 pm

sipclip wrote:
Catchall wrote:
sipclip wrote:Man Royce has become overrated. He is a good defender but not even close to being an incredible defender. Offensively he needs to increase his usage quite a bit to become an asset on that end of court.

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Wing defense is a huge need for every team in the league, and Royce is one of the 10 best wing defenders. He has value.

As for what the Spurs do at #11, I think Patrick Williams or Isaac Okoro would be their priority.
No Royce is not a top 10 perimeter defender in the league. There is a reason why perimeter players regularly destroy this team and that is because we don't have an elite perimeter player to put on the opposing teams top players. These are the perimeter players that I feel are clearly better than Royce defensively in my opinion.

Kawhi
PG
Beverly
Danny Green
Jason Tatum
Chris Paul
Torrey Craig
Garry Harris
Jimmy Butler
Ben Simmons
Robert Covington
Eric Bledsoe
Dejounte Murray
Marcus Smart
Lonzo Ball
Kris Dunn
Lowry

Those are the guys that are clearly ahead of him for me. Then you have a bunch of guys like Norman Powell, OG Anunoby, Josh Richardson, Khris Middleton, PJ Tucker, Harkless and a few other guys that I view him similar to. This off-season I think Harkless could probably be had for 4 million a year or less and I think he would be just as effective as O'Neale for us. That doesn't mean that I don't like Royce but to me this elite defender talk doesn't match with the reality of us regularly getting roasted by non elite perimeter players. When you have an elite perimeter player you give him the assignment to cool those guys and we clearly don't have that player right now based on the results on the court.

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I have Royce as a better defender than most of those players. Clearly better, IMO:
Marcus Smart
Kris Dunn
Dejounte Murray
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Ben Simmons

That's about it. I don't think Rudy + Royce can entirely make up for the rest of the defensive sieves on the team. We have four positive impact defenders: Rudy, Joe, Royce, and Bradley...that's pretty awful.
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