4-3-2-1, LIFTOFF! Offseason BRK-CHI-IND-TOR

ecuhus1981 · Post #1 » by **ecuhus1981** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:32 am

Works with next season's salary:

https://tradenba.com/trades/o3Fw3qxx9

Nets trades LeVert/Prince/Dinwiddie/Allen for Porter/Oladipo/Arcidiacano/Kornet
Brooklyn gambles big to reel in the perfect (if healthy) complements to their stars.

Bulls trades Porter/Arcidiacano/Kornet for Prince/Dinwiddie/Lamb
Chicago reels in versatile vets on the wing, while retaining offseason capspace.

Pacers trades Oladipo/Lamb for LeVert/Anunoby
Indiana turns the page from Victor, while obtaining high-caliber two-way wings and cutting $11mil in salary.

Raptors trades Anunoby for Allen
Toronto adds a great young C, whose cap hold next summer should be small enough to pursue the max FA of their dreams.

Godaddycurse · Post #2 » by **Godaddycurse** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:34 am

raptors pass. a great 3+D wing is much harder to come by than a traditional center. OG's caphold is the same size as Allen's so no benefit there.

How does chicago retain capspace when they take on Lamb + Prince's salary?

ecuhus1981 · Post #3 » by **ecuhus1981** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:45 am

Godaddycurse wrote:raptors pass. a great 3+D wing is much harder to come by than a traditional center. OG's caphold is the same size as Allen's so no benefit there.

How does chicago retain capspace when they take on Lamb + Prince's salary?

We can agree to disagree on which type of prospect is rarer or more valuable. At least you must concede that your primary 2021 free agent target is a forward. The cap hold wouldn't preclude you from keeping OG, but if a significant offer came, it would not be smart to match him if you had already acquired your primary target. In that case, you'd be losing your restricted free agent for nothing, a plausible scenario. Whereas with this deal, you keep the same small cap hold but retain a young player at a position of need who does not interfere with your free agent plans next summer.

As for Chicago's cap, they are positioned to make a splash this off-season. On the Bulls' end, this deal is cap neutral for 20-21.

Godaddycurse · Post #4 » by **Godaddycurse** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:51 am

ecuhus1981 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:raptors pass. a great 3+D wing is much harder to come by than a traditional center. OG's caphold is the same size as Allen's so no benefit there.

How does chicago retain capspace when they take on Lamb + Prince's salary?

We can agree to disagree on which type of prospect is rarer or more valuable. At least you must concede that your primary 2021 free agent target is a forward. The cap hold wouldn't preclude you from keeping OG, but if a significant offer came, it would not be smart to match him if you had already acquired your primary target. In that case, you'd be losing your restricted free agent for nothing, a plausible scenario. Whereas with this deal, you keep the same small cap hold but retain a young player at a position of need who does not interfere with your free agent plans next summer.

As for Chicago's cap, they are positioned to make a splash this off-season. On the Bulls' end, this deal is cap neutral for 20-21.

Raptors will happily match whatever offer OG receives once/if they sign a FA. There is plenty of room between the salary cap and tax threshold to fit in OG's new contract. OG can play 2-4 with no problem.

You can disagree on which type of prospect is more valuable but I doubt many others will side with you on this one. There is a much higher demand for good 3+D wings than for traditional centers in today's nba. OG's defense is also at all nba level/better than allen's defense in center.

giberish · Post #5 » by **giberish** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:58 am

I can't imagine a team trading OG for Allen.

One of the many reasons why versatile mid-sized guys are more in demand then non-elite center-only guys is that you can fit them together in a lot of different ways. You never have to worry about having too many to be useful.

armpit617 · Post #6 » by **armpit617** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:58 am

Godaddycurse wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:raptors pass. a great 3+D wing is much harder to come by than a traditional center. OG's caphold is the same size as Allen's so no benefit there.

How does chicago retain capspace when they take on Lamb + Prince's salary?

We can agree to disagree on which type of prospect is rarer or more valuable. At least you must concede that your primary 2021 free agent target is a forward. The cap hold wouldn't preclude you from keeping OG, but if a significant offer came, it would not be smart to match him if you had already acquired your primary target. In that case, you'd be losing your restricted free agent for nothing, a plausible scenario. Whereas with this deal, you keep the same small cap hold but retain a young player at a position of need who does not interfere with your free agent plans next summer.

As for Chicago's cap, they are positioned to make a splash this off-season. On the Bulls' end, this deal is cap neutral for 20-21.

Raptors will happily match whatever offer OG receives once/if they sign a FA. There is plenty of room between the salary cap and tax threshold to fit in OG's new contract. OG can play 2-4 with no problem.

You can disagree on which type of prospect is more valuable but I doubt many others will side with you on this one. There is a much higher demand for good 3+D wings than for traditional centers in today's nba.

I don't think happily is the word i'd use when he goes for what i think. I believe it is going to be for much more than the wishful thinking from what the Raps board thinks. Still you got to do it.

Laughing though at the other guys agree to disagee. Don't see in any world where Allen has as much value as OG. Not only are 2 way wings a premium, OG is at the least equal to Allen as a player ( i have OG a good deal better but trying to be polite about it). No team is trading a solid young 2 way wing for a big unless the big is a tier better as a player.

Godaddycurse · Post #7 » by **Godaddycurse** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:03 am

armpit617 wrote:
I don't think happily is the word i'd use when he goes for what i think. I believe it is going to be for much more than the wishful thinking from what the Raps board thinks. Still you got to do it.

touche

armpit617 · Post #8 » by **armpit617** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:09 am

Godaddycurse wrote:
armpit617 wrote:
I don't think happily is the word i'd use when he goes for what i think. I believe it is going to be for much more than the wishful thinking from what the Raps board thinks. Still you got to do it.

touche

Just for background on that there was a thread a few months back on the Raps board where it was talked about. A large portion of the posters thought they could resign him from anywhere from 8-12 million a year. Now that was just laughable. Of course this was before Corona which is what made it laughable. With the different landscape now i could see 12-15 mil a year as a minimum, but before this covid i am pretty sure someone would of offered him around 20 mil per. Not knowing any of the changes coming ie new salary cap, tax threshold, it does make it a little trickier to guess.

Godaddycurse · Post #9 » by **Godaddycurse** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:14 am

armpit617 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
armpit617 wrote:
I don't think happily is the word i'd use when he goes for what i think. I believe it is going to be for much more than the wishful thinking from what the Raps board thinks. Still you got to do it.

touche

Just for background on that there was a thread a few months back on the Raps board where it was talked about. A large portion of the posters thought they could resign him from anywhere from 8-12 million a year. Now that was just laughable. Of course this was before Corona which is what made it laughable. With the different landscape now i could see 12-15 mil a year as a minimum, but before this covid i am pretty sure someone would of offered him around 20 mil per. Not knowing any of the changes coming ie new salary cap, tax threshold, it does make it a little trickier to guess.

i had him marked for around 15M, possibly more if he continues to grow offensively next year. More touches should be available since we can't bring all 3 of ibaka/gasol/fvv back. Thats another thing that makes me more likely to pick OG; his game still has room to grow where as i feel allen is closer to a finished product.

armpit617 · Post #10 » by **armpit617** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:19 am

Godaddycurse wrote:
armpit617 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
touche

Just for background on that there was a thread a few months back on the Raps board where it was talked about. A large portion of the posters thought they could resign him from anywhere from 8-12 million a year. Now that was just laughable. Of course this was before Corona which is what made it laughable. With the different landscape now i could see 12-15 mil a year as a minimum, but before this covid i am pretty sure someone would of offered him around 20 mil per. Not knowing any of the changes coming ie new salary cap, tax threshold, it does make it a little trickier to guess.

i had him marked for around 15M, possibly more if he continues to grow offensively next year. More touches should be available since we can't bring all 3 of ibaka/gasol/fvv back. Thats another thing that makes me more likely to pick OG; his game still has room to grow where as i feel allen is closer to a finished product.

Haha i don't think you need to sell OG. I don't think there is a single team in the league who wouldn't play him 20+ mins a game if they had him. Where as i am positive there are teams that wouldn't even want Allen. Not that Allen is bad by any means, but some teams already have their starting centers, and won't pay semi large money for Allen to be a backup. Then there are other teams who just don't believe in investing more than small money for the position. Allen probably isn't going to be cheap for too much longer.

ChettheJet · Post #11 » by **ChettheJet** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:34 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:
As for Chicago's cap, they are positioned to make a splash this off-season. On the Bulls' end, this deal is cap neutral for 20-21.

It's a genuine head scratcher why the Nets think 3 former Bulls players help their team and I don't get the Bulls bosses thinking their big bold first move is to get two Nets players and not the top line players at that

Who are they positioned to make a big splash with? Lamb, Prince and Dinwiddie are all signed through 21-22. Who on the FA list comes in and gets any kind of contributing time when they have.

White Dinwiddie
Lavine #7
Carter Gafford and now Felicio
Markkanen Young Lamb
Prince Hutchison

The reality is if they extend Markkanen, they take themselves out of the 20-21 FA class for those three guys, that's bad planning
No point to drafting a SF with a pair of guys signed, can't draft a PF with 3 guys signed, Not a PG with two guys signed, they do need a center capable of playing

drosereturn · Post #12 » by **drosereturn** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:59 pm

Man this keep getting better for the Bulls. Would do this in a heartbeat.

basketballwacko2 · Post #13 » by **basketballwacko2** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:12 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:Works with next season's salary:

https://tradenba.com/trades/o3Fw3qxx9

Nets trades LeVert/Prince/Dinwiddie/Allen for Porter/Oladipo/Arcidiacano/Kornet
Brooklyn gambles big to reel in the perfect (if healthy) complements to their stars.

Bulls trades Porter/Arcidiacano/Kornet for Prince/Dinwiddie/Lamb
Chicago reels in versatile vets on the wing, while retaining offseason capspace.

Pacers trades Oladipo/Lamb for LeVert/Anunoby
Indiana turns the page from Victor, while obtaining high-caliber two-way wings and cutting $11mil in salary.

Raptors trades Anunoby for Allen
Toronto adds a great young C, whose cap hold next summer should be small enough to pursue the max FA of their dreams.

This is a great deal for the Bulls, I think they need to add a draft pick. OPJ is the only player of note from the bulls for this package who's only negative is lamb who is hurt.

I mostly look at the Pacers side of it. I don't know why we are seeing these constant deals for Oladipo? This is not a bad return if Victor wants to leave.

Not terrible for the raptors if Gasol is to old to be their center, but they probably need some additional value.

The Nets seem to give up the most in this deal so the Bulls #1 goes to them.

basketballwacko2 · Post #14 » by **basketballwacko2** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:26 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:raptors pass. a great 3+D wing is much harder to come by than a traditional center. OG's caphold is the same size as Allen's so no benefit there.

How does chicago retain capspace when they take on Lamb + Prince's salary?

We can agree to disagree on which type of prospect is rarer or more valuable. At least you must concede that your primary 2021 free agent target is a forward. The cap hold wouldn't preclude you from keeping OG, but if a significant offer came, it would not be smart to match him if you had already acquired your primary target. In that case, you'd be losing your restricted free agent for nothing, a plausible scenario. Whereas with this deal, you keep the same small cap hold but retain a young player at a position of need who does not interfere with your free agent plans next summer.

As for Chicago's cap, they are positioned to make a splash this off-season. On the Bulls' end, this deal is cap neutral for 20-21.

Raptors will happily match whatever offer OG receives once/if they sign a FA. There is plenty of room between the salary cap and tax threshold to fit in OG's new contract. OG can play 2-4 with no problem.

You can disagree on which type of prospect is more valuable but I doubt many others will side with you on this one. There is a much higher demand for good 3+D wings than for traditional centers in today's nba. OG's defense is also at all nba level/better than allen's defense in center.

The Raps have that room only if they are renouncing Gasol and Ibaka. If those guys resign say for $12 million each they are at $110 million not counting FVV signing. What's he getting $18 million I'm guessing. There's still room to sign OG but not a lot. What if some team offers him $15-17 million?

Post #15 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:27 pm

If Victor demanded a trade, this is a starter. It would likely still need something, for us to be pushed over the edge.

And in the case of if Victor hypothetically demanded a trade, we wouldn't really have interest in moving Lamb at all, and wouldn't view it as a positive in moving his deal. We're happy what he signed for, and the Covid delay actually helps him, as it now appears he won't miss all of next season, and may not even miss too much time at all with the season looking like it will start much later. But if Oladipo is gone, we'll need Lamb. And we will be enough over the cap we wouldn't be able to replace him with cap space either way.

Godaddycurse · Post #16 » by **Godaddycurse** » Sat Aug 1, 2020 12:09 am

basketballwacko2 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:We can agree to disagree on which type of prospect is rarer or more valuable. At least you must concede that your primary 2021 free agent target is a forward. The cap hold wouldn't preclude you from keeping OG, but if a significant offer came, it would not be smart to match him if you had already acquired your primary target. In that case, you'd be losing your restricted free agent for nothing, a plausible scenario. Whereas with this deal, you keep the same small cap hold but retain a young player at a position of need who does not interfere with your free agent plans next summer.

As for Chicago's cap, they are positioned to make a splash this off-season. On the Bulls' end, this deal is cap neutral for 20-21.

Raptors will happily match whatever offer OG receives once/if they sign a FA. There is plenty of room between the salary cap and tax threshold to fit in OG's new contract. OG can play 2-4 with no problem.

You can disagree on which type of prospect is more valuable but I doubt many others will side with you on this one. There is a much higher demand for good 3+D wings than for traditional centers in today's nba. OG's defense is also at all nba level/better than allen's defense in center.

The Raps have that room only if they are renouncing Gasol and Ibaka. If those guys resign say for $12 million each they are at $110 million not counting FVV signing. What's he getting $18 million I'm guessing. There's still room to sign OG but not a lot. What if some team offers him $15-17 million?

If either.of ibaka or gasol is coming back this year it will be 1 yr deals i suspect. They will be renounced if a max FA is coming.

Prokorov · Post #17 » by **Prokorov** » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:01 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:Works with next season's salary:

https://tradenba.com/trades/o3Fw3qxx9

Nets trades LeVert/Prince/Dinwiddie/Allen for Porter/Oladipo/Arcidiacano/Kornet
Brooklyn gambles big to reel in the perfect (if healthy) complements to their stars.

Bulls trades Porter/Arcidiacano/Kornet for Prince/Dinwiddie/Lamb
Chicago reels in versatile vets on the wing, while retaining offseason capspace.

Pacers trades Oladipo/Lamb for LeVert/Anunoby
Indiana turns the page from Victor, while obtaining high-caliber two-way wings and cutting $11mil in salary.

Raptors trades Anunoby for Allen
Toronto adds a great young C, whose cap hold next summer should be small enough to pursue the max FA of their dreams.

Pacers get robbed here. Allen also isnt a 2-way wing. im not sure he is a 1-way wing. poor defender and volume offensive player with horrific efficiency who struggles to finish at the rim. terrible deal for the pacers. Why wouldnt everyone just cut out the nets here? Toronto doesnt need to be in this deal at all.

Bulls take oladipo, pacers take porter?

Prokorov · Post #18 » by **Prokorov** » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:03 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
armpit617 wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
touche

Just for background on that there was a thread a few months back on the Raps board where it was talked about. A large portion of the posters thought they could resign him from anywhere from 8-12 million a year. Now that was just laughable. Of course this was before Corona which is what made it laughable. With the different landscape now i could see 12-15 mil a year as a minimum, but before this covid i am pretty sure someone would of offered him around 20 mil per. Not knowing any of the changes coming ie new salary cap, tax threshold, it does make it a little trickier to guess.

i had him marked for around 15M, possibly more if he continues to grow offensively next year. More touches should be available since we can't bring all 3 of ibaka/gasol/fvv back. Thats another thing that makes me more likely to pick OG; his game still has room to grow where as i feel allen is closer to a finished product.

LEvert just got 17.5 million despite being older, oft injured, and worst on both ends

Post #19 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Sat Aug 1, 2020 3:54 pm

Prokorov wrote:
ecuhus1981 wrote:Works with next season's salary:

https://tradenba.com/trades/o3Fw3qxx9

Nets trades LeVert/Prince/Dinwiddie/Allen for Porter/Oladipo/Arcidiacano/Kornet
Brooklyn gambles big to reel in the perfect (if healthy) complements to their stars.

Bulls trades Porter/Arcidiacano/Kornet for Prince/Dinwiddie/Lamb
Chicago reels in versatile vets on the wing, while retaining offseason capspace.

Pacers trades Oladipo/Lamb for LeVert/Anunoby
Indiana turns the page from Victor, while obtaining high-caliber two-way wings and cutting $11mil in salary.

Raptors trades Anunoby for Allen
Toronto adds a great young C, whose cap hold next summer should be small enough to pursue the max FA of their dreams.

Pacers get robbed here. Allen also isnt a 2-way wing. im not sure he is a 1-way wing. poor defender and volume offensive player with horrific efficiency who struggles to finish at the rim. terrible deal for the pacers. Why wouldnt everyone just cut out the nets here? Toronto doesnt need to be in this deal at all.

Bulls take oladipo, pacers take porter?

That’s not a starter for Indy either. Where would Porter play in Indy then? He’d be coming off the bench behind Warren at the 3 and Myles at the 4. And he’d be competing with an Anunoby at both spots, too. Real weird to trade our best player and a SG, and then get back two guys that play positions where we already have better players, and that play the same positions themselves.

jimmy keys · Post #20 » by **jimmy keys** » Sat Aug 1, 2020 4:42 pm

Imagine thinking Allen could get you Anunoby in a trade. It's not even close. OG is the 2nd most valuable player in terms of trade value for Toronto. Only see him being moved for a superstar and they already took Siakam and OG off the table when inquiring about Kawhi two years ago. I wouldn't trade him for Oladipo nevermind Allen.