ImageImageImage

2020 NBA Draft Discussion (18th and 31st pick)

Moderators: Dirk, HMFFL, Mavrelous

ejs78
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,332
And1: 1,091
Joined: Jul 03, 2015
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#221 » by ejs78 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 12:06 am

Whos you're NBA comp for him?

I got Mikal Bridges
Teffer10 wrote:
ejs78 wrote:With a player sure, but wouldnt do the pick. Can get another solid piece like Brunson.
aggerrard wrote:Vassell, Nesmith or Saddiq Bey - i'd trade up with a player or the 2nd round pick to get one of them.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

If Vassell becomes available for both of our picks I'd do it in a heartbeat. Bey should be there for us but I wouldn't pick him....not enough upside imo.
Not sure about Nesmith. I was pretty high on him earlier this year but have cooled off. He is basically a Wes Matthews clone in just about all aspects of his game but I'm not sure I'd give up #31 with #18 to get him. Vassell would be a no-brainer for both picks imo.
I'd even consider both picks and Brunson for Vassell. Vassell is legit starter material and a perfect fit for what we need. He is DFS with a much higher ceiling.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
Teffer10
Head Coach
Posts: 6,857
And1: 845
Joined: Oct 06, 2006
     

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#222 » by Teffer10 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:24 am

aggerrard wrote:
Teffer10 wrote:
ejs78 wrote:With a player sure, but wouldnt do the pick. Can get another solid piece like Brunson.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

If Vassell becomes available for both of our picks I'd do it in a heartbeat. Bey should be there for us but I wouldn't pick him....not enough upside imo.
Not sure about Nesmith. I was pretty high on him earlier this year but have cooled off. He is basically a Wes Matthews clone in just about all aspects of his game but I'm not sure I'd give up #31 with #18 to get him. Vassell would be a no-brainer for both picks imo.
I'd even consider both picks and Brunson for Vassell. Vassell is legit starter material and a perfect fit for what we need. He is DFS with a much higher ceiling.

Fair. This is the first year i've tried to watch some college ball, so my scouting abilities are likely poor... :lol:

Just feel like those 3 are great fits to be immediate starters in the NBA, all great 3&D prospects which will fit on the team.

I don't think they are poor at all because all 3 of them would fit well on the Mavs.
I just think Vassell has tremendous upside with a ceiling of the Matrix and would be a great fit for our needs.
Nesmith is starter material, and could become a nice fitting piece, but I see his ceiling much lower because of his lack of athleticism.
I see Bey as an instant contributor but with a ceiling as a role player similar as DFS and Maxi. He would be a solid fit and would help our ailing wing defending situation.

I think you offer up some very nice options for the Mavs. If Nesmith could slip to us at 18 I'd definitely like to see the Mavs take Paul Reed at 31 because he is an outstanding defender and could fill an enormous need. He has decent size, long, can rebound and can basically guard all 5 positions in today's NBA. Similar game as Aminu but he does have a very ugly looking shot that I'm not sure can be fixed.
Teffer10
Head Coach
Posts: 6,857
And1: 845
Joined: Oct 06, 2006
     

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#223 » by Teffer10 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:30 am

ejs78 wrote:Whos you're NBA comp for him?

I got Mikal Bridges
Teffer10 wrote:
ejs78 wrote:With a player sure, but wouldnt do the pick. Can get another solid piece like Brunson.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

If Vassell becomes available for both of our picks I'd do it in a heartbeat. Bey should be there for us but I wouldn't pick him....not enough upside imo.
Not sure about Nesmith. I was pretty high on him earlier this year but have cooled off. He is basically a Wes Matthews clone in just about all aspects of his game but I'm not sure I'd give up #31 with #18 to get him. Vassell would be a no-brainer for both picks imo.
I'd even consider both picks and Brunson for Vassell. Vassell is legit starter material and a perfect fit for what we need. He is DFS with a much higher ceiling.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Bridges does come to mind but I think Vassell has the upside of the Matrix in terms of impact because he is super athletic, can defend several positions, has a high motor, and can shoot the 3. I'm not sure Bridges has that potential.

Luka/THJ/Vassell/DFS/KP could become an extremely dangerous SL in a couple years.
ejs78
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,332
And1: 1,091
Joined: Jul 03, 2015
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#224 » by ejs78 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 5:26 pm

After last night's its clear who ever they take has to be able to guard a at minimum.
Teffer10 wrote:
ejs78 wrote:Whos you're NBA comp for him?

I got Mikal Bridges
Teffer10 wrote:If Vassell becomes available for both of our picks I'd do it in a heartbeat. Bey should be there for us but I wouldn't pick him....not enough upside imo.
Not sure about Nesmith. I was pretty high on him earlier this year but have cooled off. He is basically a Wes Matthews clone in just about all aspects of his game but I'm not sure I'd give up #31 with #18 to get him. Vassell would be a no-brainer for both picks imo.
I'd even consider both picks and Brunson for Vassell. Vassell is legit starter material and a perfect fit for what we need. He is DFS with a much higher ceiling.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Bridges does come to mind but I think Vassell has the upside of the Matrix in terms of impact because he is super athletic, can defend several positions, has a high motor, and can shoot the 3. I'm not sure Bridges has that potential.

Luka/THJ/Vassell/DFS/KP could become an extremely dangerous SL in a couple years.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
Teffer10
Head Coach
Posts: 6,857
And1: 845
Joined: Oct 06, 2006
     

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#225 » by Teffer10 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 2:43 pm

ejs78 wrote:After last night's its clear who ever they take has to be able to guard a at minimum.
Teffer10 wrote:
ejs78 wrote:Whos you're NBA comp for him?

I got Mikal Bridges

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Bridges does come to mind but I think Vassell has the upside of the Matrix in terms of impact because he is super athletic, can defend several positions, has a high motor, and can shoot the 3. I'm not sure Bridges has that potential.

Luka/THJ/Vassell/DFS/KP could become an extremely dangerous SL in a couple years.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

I'm almost completely convinced the Mavs should draft Josh Green if they can't make some type of deal to move up to get Vassell.
The knocks on Green's game is his inability to create going left and inconsistency shooting 3s. However he is a much better catch and shoot 3pt shooter and could become a lock down defender making him the ultimate 3-D candidate. He is also extremely strong and athletic with a long WS which is something we could use in the SL.
After watching Luka last night getting guys wide open for 3 makes me think Green would be a solid addition to this team and he does have an enormous upside. His athleticism and ability to play above the rim would be extremely entertaining playing with Luka.

Right now Green moves up to #2 on my board of realistic candidates for the Mavs behind Vassell. Vassell could only be had via trade but if he somehow falls to the back half of the lotto range, I could see the Mavs getting extremely aggressive to move up for him. Poku was my #2 guy but now my order would be Vassell/Green/Poku/Nesmith/Lewis.
dirkforpres
RealGM
Posts: 11,897
And1: 7,814
Joined: Sep 13, 2005
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#226 » by dirkforpres » Sun Aug 9, 2020 3:10 pm

I still think Mavs should get Hampton, and they might not even have to move up in order to do so. Either that, or of course trade the picks and get out of the draft completely
FIRE JASON KIDD
ejs78
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,332
And1: 1,091
Joined: Jul 03, 2015
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#227 » by ejs78 » Sun Aug 9, 2020 9:30 pm

Green & Tyler Bey at 31 I would be happy.

I know both have their issues shooting but it would increase how athletic this team is drastically and improve the D. Could then add someone like Dragic to to help with the 2nd unit.

Only issue with all this is the Mavs don't like the draft.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app
Darren
RealGM
Posts: 13,346
And1: 823
Joined: Nov 06, 2003

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#228 » by Darren » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:40 am

Jaden McDaniels sounds like a fine pick. Might contribute right away as a pure defender. Don't expect much from offensive production standpoint, though. 6-11 with 6-11 wingspan, outstanding quickness. Shooting form is quick as hell. offensive production will only improve. Compared to Jonathan Issaac.

If Vessell, Nesmith & Bey are gone, I'd consider McDaniels or trade the pick for a similar young player. Target a big who slips all the way to second round.
Mike lorenzo
Analyst
Posts: 3,147
And1: 726
Joined: May 09, 2020
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#229 » by Mike lorenzo » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:46 am

I had Mcdaniels as a talented boy High-ceilinged talented ... uncertain floor thin and light I didn't think he was a good defender
1+1=11
Darren
RealGM
Posts: 13,346
And1: 823
Joined: Nov 06, 2003

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#230 » by Darren » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:20 am

Mike lorenzo wrote:I had Mcdaniels as a talented boy High-ceilinged talented ... uncertain floor thin and light I didn't think he was a good defender


Dwight Powell with better shot-blocking, shooting and physical attributes. Averaged 1 steals and 1.8 blocks per 40 mins. Not a good rebounder, though. So was Powell in the rookie days. Skinny. I expect McDaniels to be able to stick with SF defensively. This gives coach a lot of flexibility. If McDaniels is available at 31, It's no brainer to me. But I expect McDaniels to be picked from 20-30 range.
JJP
Pro Prospect
Posts: 752
And1: 172
Joined: Jul 04, 2020
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#231 » by JJP » Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:09 am

Darren wrote:
Mike lorenzo wrote:I had Mcdaniels as a talented boy High-ceilinged talented ... uncertain floor thin and light I didn't think he was a good defender


Dwight Powell with better shot-blocking, shooting and physical attributes. Averaged 1 steals and 1.8 blocks per 40 mins. Not a good rebounder, though. So was Powell in the rookie days. Skinny. I expect McDaniels to be able to stick with SF defensively. This gives coach a lot of flexibility. If McDaniels is available at 31, It's no brainer to me. But I expect McDaniels to be picked from 20-30 range.


I suspect you're right about McDaniels being gone by #31. I'm not as high on him, but almost every mock draft has him being picked in the late 1st round.

My pick would be Xavier Tillman at #31 since he's NBA-ready and can practically rotate in the second he hits the floor. His perimeter game needs work, but almost every other metric is a net+. On top of that, he can defend nearly every position. The sad part is that he may have moved into the late 1st round now and could possibly be gone by the time #31 is picked.
Darren
RealGM
Posts: 13,346
And1: 823
Joined: Nov 06, 2003

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#232 » by Darren » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:37 pm

Statistically, another big catch my attention: Vernon Carey


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/vernon-careyjr-1.html
34.1 PER
28.6 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 1.6 APG, 1.1 SPG, 2.5 BPG per 40M
57.7% 2P%, 38.1% 3P%, 67.0% FT%
7.0 wingspan, NBA ready body frame

I wonder if Carey is quick enough as a 4, though. Sounds like a career backup big. But still, pretty strong statistically.
Worth a look, to say the least. I don't see much a difference with Achiuwa in case we want a big. I do notice, Carey attempts only 10 shots per game and only average 24 mins per game, though.
Darren
RealGM
Posts: 13,346
And1: 823
Joined: Nov 06, 2003

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#233 » by Darren » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:47 pm

Jalen Smith also has crazy number. I am leaning towards getting a big from 31 pick.
Mike lorenzo
Analyst
Posts: 3,147
And1: 726
Joined: May 09, 2020
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#234 » by Mike lorenzo » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:49 pm

what about Cassius Stanley the boy seems can never step on the NBA ..or that is the robbery it will surely be there at # 31 (it projects lower) .. what do you think?
1+1=11
Darren
RealGM
Posts: 13,346
And1: 823
Joined: Nov 06, 2003

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#235 » by Darren » Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:13 pm

JJP wrote:
Darren wrote:
Mike lorenzo wrote:I had Mcdaniels as a talented boy High-ceilinged talented ... uncertain floor thin and light I didn't think he was a good defender


Dwight Powell with better shot-blocking, shooting and physical attributes. Averaged 1 steals and 1.8 blocks per 40 mins. Not a good rebounder, though. So was Powell in the rookie days. Skinny. I expect McDaniels to be able to stick with SF defensively. This gives coach a lot of flexibility. If McDaniels is available at 31, It's no brainer to me. But I expect McDaniels to be picked from 20-30 range.


I suspect you're right about McDaniels being gone by #31. I'm not as high on him, but almost every mock draft has him being picked in the late 1st round.

My pick would be Xavier Tillman at #31 since he's NBA-ready and can practically rotate in the second he hits the floor. His perimeter game needs work, but almost every other metric is a net+. On top of that, he can defend nearly every position. The sad part is that he may have moved into the late 1st round now and could possibly be gone by the time #31 is picked.


The problem is Tillman is only 6-8. Statistically, Tillman is great defensively. But can any team afford to play 4 on 5 offensively every game? I think Tillman likely slide to second round. If we want a pure defender, Tillman is a great fit, though. I wonder what position Tillman could play. I'd rather have Jalen Smith for sure. Smith is 6-10 with 7-1 wingspan. Could also shoot from outside. Seems to be light on feet. Smith could at least play alongside KP. Maybe Smith is skinny but that's perfectly fine. The Mavs needs a shotblocking 4 who can guard smaller player and stretch the floor from outside. Jalen Smith seems like a good fit. Doncic is strong on board. There's no problem to have Smith on the floor.
JJP
Pro Prospect
Posts: 752
And1: 172
Joined: Jul 04, 2020
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#236 » by JJP » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:38 pm

Darren wrote:
JJP wrote:
Darren wrote:

Dwight Powell with better shot-blocking, shooting and physical attributes. Averaged 1 steals and 1.8 blocks per 40 mins. Not a good rebounder, though. So was Powell in the rookie days. Skinny. I expect McDaniels to be able to stick with SF defensively. This gives coach a lot of flexibility. If McDaniels is available at 31, It's no brainer to me. But I expect McDaniels to be picked from 20-30 range.


I suspect you're right about McDaniels being gone by #31. I'm not as high on him, but almost every mock draft has him being picked in the late 1st round.

My pick would be Xavier Tillman at #31 since he's NBA-ready and can practically rotate in the second he hits the floor. His perimeter game needs work, but almost every other metric is a net+. On top of that, he can defend nearly every position. The sad part is that he may have moved into the late 1st round now and could possibly be gone by the time #31 is picked.


The problem is Tillman is only 6-8. Statistically, Tillman is great defensively. But can any team afford to play 4 on 5 offensively every game? I think Tillman likely slide to second round. If we want a pure defender, Tillman is a great fit, though. I wonder what position Tillman could play. I'd rather have Jalen Smith for sure. Smith is 6-10 with 7-1 wingspan. Could also shoot from outside. Seems to be light on feet. Smith could at least play alongside KP. Maybe Smith is skinny but that's perfectly fine. The Mavs needs a shotblocking 4 who can guard smaller player and stretch the floor from outside. Jalen Smith seems like a good fit. Doncic is strong on board. There's no problem to have Smith on the floor.


I just assumed Tillman was a PF on the Mavs team - or a small ball center at times. Michigan State doesn't play with a true center, but three forwards in the front court. It just so happens that Tillman is the best player down in the middle.

The knock on Jalen Smith is that he would get pushed around by smaller, stronger players. I don't think you could you could pair him with KP. In fact, he more or less replicates KP's game rather than compliments it. But you could certainly run him in a rotation that would spare KP's minutes, and still get 22-25 minutes per game. As for blocks, keep in mind that even though he's at least an inch shorter with shorter wingspan, Tillman had about the same number of blocks as Smith this last season.

And this is not to dismiss Smith - he may end up being a great player - but one of his weaknesses is that the ball stops moving once it hits him in the hands. He's not a good passer, and he doesn't even average 1 assist per game. Tillman averages 3 APG - more than most centers playing in the first two rounds. I'm not sure Carlisle runs the right offense for someone like Smith- especially when you already have KP.

Tillman's weakness is in his 3-point perimeter game, but every other metric is outstanding - good defense, good passer, good rebounder (averages a double-double). Tillman will not be quite the rim protector Smith would be, but he can defend wings and big men both, clean up down low, and move the ball. I suspect he would, at least, get Justin Jackson's minutes on day one. He's really a quicker, more active Paul Millsap or Derrick Favors. He's also great insurance for Powell - who may not be what he was (which was rather pedestrian to begin with).
Darren
RealGM
Posts: 13,346
And1: 823
Joined: Nov 06, 2003

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#237 » by Darren » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:22 pm

JJP wrote:
Darren wrote:
JJP wrote:
I suspect you're right about McDaniels being gone by #31. I'm not as high on him, but almost every mock draft has him being picked in the late 1st round.

My pick would be Xavier Tillman at #31 since he's NBA-ready and can practically rotate in the second he hits the floor. His perimeter game needs work, but almost every other metric is a net+. On top of that, he can defend nearly every position. The sad part is that he may have moved into the late 1st round now and could possibly be gone by the time #31 is picked.


The problem is Tillman is only 6-8. Statistically, Tillman is great defensively. But can any team afford to play 4 on 5 offensively every game? I think Tillman likely slide to second round. If we want a pure defender, Tillman is a great fit, though. I wonder what position Tillman could play. I'd rather have Jalen Smith for sure. Smith is 6-10 with 7-1 wingspan. Could also shoot from outside. Seems to be light on feet. Smith could at least play alongside KP. Maybe Smith is skinny but that's perfectly fine. The Mavs needs a shotblocking 4 who can guard smaller player and stretch the floor from outside. Jalen Smith seems like a good fit. Doncic is strong on board. There's no problem to have Smith on the floor.


I just assumed Tillman was a PF on the Mavs team - or a small ball center at times. Michigan State doesn't play with a true center, but three forwards in the front court. It just so happens that Tillman is the best player down in the middle.

The knock on Jalen Smith is that he would get pushed around by smaller, stronger players. I don't think you could you could pair him with KP. In fact, he more or less replicates KP's game rather than compliments it. But you could certainly run him in a rotation that would spare KP's minutes, and still get 22-25 minutes per game. As for blocks, keep in mind that even though he's at least an inch shorter with shorter wingspan, Tillman had about the same number of blocks as Smith this last season.

And this is not to dismiss Smith - he may end up being a great player - but one of his weaknesses is that the ball stops moving once it hits him in the hands. He's not a good passer, and he doesn't even average 1 assist per game. Tillman averages 3 APG - more than most centers playing in the first two rounds. I'm not sure Carlisle runs the right offense for someone like Smith- especially when you already have KP.

Tillman's weakness is in his 3-point perimeter game, but every other metric is outstanding - good defense, good passer, good rebounder (averages a double-double). Tillman will not be quite the rim protector Smith would be, but he can defend wings and big men both, clean up down low, and move the ball. I suspect he would, at least, get Justin Jackson's minutes on day one. He's really a quicker, more active Paul Millsap or Derrick Favors. He's also great insurance for Powell - who may not be what he was (which was rather pedestrian to begin with).


I am convinced by you now. Tillman has exactly the skillset the Mavs is looking for. As long as Tillman could hit a corner 3, it's a fine pick. Most mock draft has Tillman in 2nd round. Why do you think Tillman would be 1st round bound?
Darren
RealGM
Posts: 13,346
And1: 823
Joined: Nov 06, 2003

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#238 » by Darren » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:54 pm

Teffer10 wrote:
ejs78 wrote:After last night's its clear who ever they take has to be able to guard a at minimum.
Teffer10 wrote:Bridges does come to mind but I think Vassell has the upside of the Matrix in terms of impact because he is super athletic, can defend several positions, has a high motor, and can shoot the 3. I'm not sure Bridges has that potential.

Luka/THJ/Vassell/DFS/KP could become an extremely dangerous SL in a couple years.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

I'm almost completely convinced the Mavs should draft Josh Green if they can't make some type of deal to move up to get Vassell.
The knocks on Green's game is his inability to create going left and inconsistency shooting 3s. However he is a much better catch and shoot 3pt shooter and could become a lock down defender making him the ultimate 3-D candidate. He is also extremely strong and athletic with a long WS which is something we could use in the SL.
After watching Luka last night getting guys wide open for 3 makes me think Green would be a solid addition to this team and he does have an enormous upside. His athleticism and ability to play above the rim would be extremely entertaining playing with Luka.

Right now Green moves up to #2 on my board of realistic candidates for the Mavs behind Vassell. Vassell could only be had via trade but if he somehow falls to the back half of the lotto range, I could see the Mavs getting extremely aggressive to move up for him. Poku was my #2 guy but now my order would be Vassell/Green/Poku/Nesmith/Lewis.


If you're intrigued by Green, you should look at Abdoulaye N’Doye as well. The 6-7 PG has 7-2 wingspan and averages more rebounds and assists with similar shooting percentage. The level of competition in Australia and France is similiar as well. on next level Abdoulaye N’Doye might be better than Josh Green. Abdoulaye N’Doye is projected to be able to guard 1-3.
JJP
Pro Prospect
Posts: 752
And1: 172
Joined: Jul 04, 2020
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#239 » by JJP » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:23 am

Darren wrote:I am convinced by you now. Tillman has exactly the skillset the Mavs is looking for. As long as Tillman could hit a corner 3, it's a fine pick. Most mock draft has Tillman in 2nd round. Why do you think Tillman would be 1st round bound?


I've been watching the mocks drafts since March. He's moved up a bit, but not into the first round. Tankathon has him now at 35th on a mock draft and 34th on their big board. I think these late 1st rounders and early second-rounders are pretty much even when teams are deciding, so I'm uneasy calling him a second-rounder.

BTW, Tillman is an academic all-American and finished his degree during the pandemic.
User avatar
walaysapi
Freshman
Posts: 65
And1: 69
Joined: Jul 11, 2019
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Discussion 

Post#240 » by walaysapi » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:54 am

How about Killian Tillie for the 2nd pick. 6'10 big who can shoot and a great defender too. Kinda like Maxi but with blocking but better offense. There are injury concerns though.
Shut it down! Let's go home!!!

Return to Dallas Mavericks