UTA v OKC

[SoCalJazzFan]

This game is so ugly that it might not deserve a thread.

[SoCalJazzFan]

That double foul ridiculousness between Gobert and Adams in the good ol days of just a few years ago would have been called playing basketball

[SoCalJazzFan]

When Clarkson is playing, sometimes good things happen, but it doesn’t look like an organized offense with plays being run.

[SoCalJazzFan]

That was a beat down wire to wire.

[SoCalJazzFan]

If Zion had played 30 more seconds, the Jazz would be winless.

[babyjax13]

Glad I missed it.

[Catchall]

Jazz didn't play hard. The Thunder were amped up, but the Jazz still should have been able to make a shot and grab a rebound. I think the fact that Mike is going to leave for the birth of his child may be putting a damper on the Jazz's efforts.

But that said, Georges Niang is shooting 3/15 in two games so far. Tony Bradley was hot garbage today.

[KqWIN]

It's actually insane to watch other teams like OKC and TOR play defense. Everyone is engaged. The guy on the ball is doing everything to disrupt the basic direction the ballhandler wants to go, and the 4 guys are ready and waiting to make a play/rotate. The Jazz don't do this. They play soft defense on the perimeter and let the ballhandler go wherever they want...even if it's a direct line to the hoop. If Gobert is there, he may or may not try. If it's Bradley, he'll try but most likely mess up.

[Crunch 99]

I recorded the game, but I couldn't stand to watch the whole thing. I fast forwarded to late in the game with a small hope that maybe the Jazz would come back to make a game of it, and no, they didn't. Sadly, out of the top seven teams in the West, I think the Jazz are the least likely to catch fire and make a competitive playoff run. The other six teams all look capable of doing so. Even the Blazers, were they to sneak in to the playoffs, have a better chance to be competitive in the playoffs than the Jazz imo. Hope I am wrong.

[Crunch 99]

Jazz didn't play hard. The Thunder were amped up, but the Jazz still should have been able to make a shot and grab a rebound. I think the fact that Mike is going to leave for the birth of his child may be putting a damper on the Jazz's efforts.

Considering all the money he is paid and the fact that he hasn't been a very good player this season, it would have been nice if he showed more interest in finishing up the season strong, but this bubble thing is brutal on family life with the long absences. (Military families, Alaska commercial fisherman and some other professions regularly deal with similar absences though.)

Random, mostly meaningless stats: Trey Burke has a higher RPM and PER than Mike Conley this season. Burke made news the other night by scoring 31 points on 16 attempts with 6 assists and 0 TOVs in his first game as a Mav. He's reunited with his old Michigan backcourt partner Tim Hardaway Jr. This will probably be his best game ever as a Mav though.

[MTJazzv3]

I recorded the game, but I couldn't stand to watch the whole thing. I fast forwarded to late in the game with a small hope that maybe the Jazz would come back to make a game of it, and no, they didn't. Sadly, out of the top seven teams in the West, I think the Jazz are the least likely to catch fire and make a competitive playoff run. The other six teams all look capable of doing so. Even the Blazers, were they to sneak in to the playoffs, have a better chance to be competitive in the playoffs than the Jazz imo. Hope I am wrong.

I think you are dead on with the ability of the Jazz to catch fire. Even the NO game was nothing special as NO wasn't playing good defense. While there was hope born of the lapse in the season, took about 0.75 games to remind me the Jazz don't have enough horses to really compete with the top shelf of the WC. Not sure even Bogey would have helped against OKC, (who looked surprisingly like they can make some noise in the playoffs with that defense).

[sipclip]

It is amazing that the jazz front office and coaching staff somehow managed to build the laziest perimeter defensive group in the NBA. I feel so bad that Rudy has to deal with teammates that just flat out don't give a damn on that end of the court. It has to be extremely frustrating for him. At this point I can't blame Rudy when he looks disengaged on that end of the court as well.

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[sipclip]

I recorded the game, but I couldn't stand to watch the whole thing. I fast forwarded to late in the game with a small hope that maybe the Jazz would come back to make a game of it, and no, they didn't. Sadly, out of the top seven teams in the West, I think the Jazz are the least likely to catch fire and make a competitive playoff run. The other six teams all look capable of doing so. Even the Blazers, were they to sneak in to the playoffs, have a better chance to be competitive in the playoffs than the Jazz imo. Hope I am wrong.

If I'm a top seed in the west then I am praying the blazers don't make it in. Now that they have Nurkic back and he looks pretty damn good as well as Zach Collins they have the potential to be a completely different team. It is a shame that Ariza chose to sit out because if you add him to mix then I like there ability to match up with anyone.

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[KqWIN]

It is amazing that the jazz front office and coaching staff somehow managed to build the laziest perimeter defensive group in the NBA. I feel so bad that Rudy has to deal with teammates that just flat out don't give a damn on that end of the court. It has to be extremely frustrating for him. At this point I can't blame Rudy when he looks disengaged on that end of the court as well.

Sent from my SM-G988U using RealGM mobile app

Feels like the entire team is just waiting for their turn to run no pass offense. Everyone just loafing around on defense and putting in no effort. This really shouldn't be a surprise given that this is how they left off. The break did not help. Quin had already lost this team and it's too late to implement winning principles. The players just don't care about winning.

[sipclip]

It is amazing that the jazz front office and coaching staff somehow managed to build the laziest perimeter defensive group in the NBA. I feel so bad that Rudy has to deal with teammates that just flat out don't give a damn on that end of the court. It has to be extremely frustrating for him. At this point I can't blame Rudy when he looks disengaged on that end of the court as well.

Sent from my SM-G988U using RealGM mobile app

Feels like the entire team is just waiting for their turn to run no pass offense. Everyone just loafing around on defense and putting in no effort. This really shouldn't be a surprise given that this is how they left off. The break did not help. Quin had already lost this team and it's too late to implement winning principles. The players just don't care about winning.

I can't believe we are once again stuck in no man's land like we were the last few years of the Dwill and Boozer era. I feel like this time we are in much worse shape though because we are about to be at the beginning of massive extensions for our 2 so called stars while being completely capped out and not have all our draft picks. This thing needs to be blown up but that takes balls and smarts and jazz management lack both. The funny part about all of this is that Brandon Clarke who is the player that the griz ended up snagging with our pick is the exact player that could have changed this teams fortune going forward. He is the ideal power forward to pair with Rudy because of his ability to stretch the floor but more importantly he is going to be an absolute beast defensively inside and out. He has that rare ability to switch on the perimeter and cover smaller guards and while being Kirilenko esque as a help side shot blocker. Pair Rudy with a Kirilenko type defender at the 4 and you would have a truly scary defense. In the end though I wanted Bazley so if it were up to me we still wouldn't have had that Kirilenko type but I like what I have seen from Bazley as well. Clarke looks like he could be special to me though.

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[KqWIN]

It is amazing that the jazz front office and coaching staff somehow managed to build the laziest perimeter defensive group in the NBA. I feel so bad that Rudy has to deal with teammates that just flat out don't give a damn on that end of the court. It has to be extremely frustrating for him. At this point I can't blame Rudy when he looks disengaged on that end of the court as well.

Sent from my SM-G988U using RealGM mobile app

Feels like the entire team is just waiting for their turn to run no pass offense. Everyone just loafing around on defense and putting in no effort. This really shouldn't be a surprise given that this is how they left off. The break did not help. Quin had already lost this team and it's too late to implement winning principles. The players just don't care about winning.

I can't believe we are once again stuck in no man's land like we were the last few years of the Dwill and Boozer era. I feel like this time we are in much worse shape though because we are about to be at the beginning of massive extensions for our 2 so called stars while being completely capped out and not have all our draft picks. This thing needs to be blown up but that takes balls and smarts and jazz management lack both. The funny part about all of this is that Brandon Clarke who is the player that the griz ended up snagging with our pick is the exact player that could have changed this teams fortune going forward. He is the ideal power forward to pair with Rudy because of his ability to stretch the floor but more importantly he is going to be an absolute beast defensively inside and out. He has that rare ability to switch on the perimeter and cover smaller guards and while being Kirilenko esque as a help side shot blocker. Pair Rudy with a Kirilenko type defender at the 4 and you would have a truly scary defense. In the end though I wanted Bazley so if it were up to me we still wouldn't have had that Kirilenko type but I like what I have seen from Bazley as well. Clarke looks like he could be special to me though.

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I don't agree that it has to be blown up, mostly because I don't believe that being a terrible is really a power position. A power position is having really good players and building blocks. Rudy is one, Donovan...could be one but has a ways to go. If you blow it up, you'll have to be lucky to get players that good again. In my opinion, you might as well build around these types of players when you have them...because it's no guarantee that you will get them again.

The Jazz just needed to be better with how they spent their assets. You can go down a long list of things the Jazz should have done, but they didn't. You can also make a long list of things the Jazz did, but they shouldn't have. Things can always turn around. I don't believe it's too late, but they have to be better. Unfortunately, they blew their load on Conley. It's questionable if Conley is even a positive player right now, and his addition cost so many assets and limited our options going forward.

I said this in the other thread, but it's definitely possible. Most of the core was built around the margins, tanking isn't the only way to get better players. But the FO has to be much better, and Quin also needs to be a better coach.

We need to find another Royce and another Joe. We need to draft another Rudy or Donovan. Quin needs to have command over the team and have them commit to the principles that he teaches. All of these things have been done before, we just need to do them again.

I do agree that we need to start by adding a versatile defender type. This Rudy+4 guys who do nothing defense is getting ridiculous, especially when Rudy quits himself.

[Catchall]

It is amazing that the jazz front office and coaching staff somehow managed to build the laziest perimeter defensive group in the NBA. I feel so bad that Rudy has to deal with teammates that just flat out don't give a damn on that end of the court. It has to be extremely frustrating for him. At this point I can't blame Rudy when he looks disengaged on that end of the court as well.

Sent from my SM-G988U using RealGM mobile app

Feels like the entire team is just waiting for their turn to run no pass offense. Everyone just loafing around on defense and putting in no effort. This really shouldn't be a surprise given that this is how they left off. The break did not help. Quin had already lost this team and it's too late to implement winning principles. The players just don't care about winning.

I can't believe we are once again stuck in no man's land like we were the last few years of the Dwill and Boozer era. I feel like this time we are in much worse shape though because we are about to be at the beginning of massive extensions for our 2 so called stars while being completely capped out and not have all our draft picks. This thing needs to be blown up but that takes balls and smarts and jazz management lack both. The funny part about all of this is that Brandon Clarke who is the player that the griz ended up snagging with our pick is the exact player that could have changed this teams fortune going forward. He is the ideal power forward to pair with Rudy because of his ability to stretch the floor but more importantly he is going to be an absolute beast defensively inside and out. He has that rare ability to switch on the perimeter and cover smaller guards and while being Kirilenko esque as a help side shot blocker. Pair Rudy with a Kirilenko type defender at the 4 and you would have a truly scary defense. In the end though I wanted Bazley so if it were up to me we still wouldn't have had that Kirilenko type but I like what I have seen from Bazley as well. Clarke looks like he could be special to me though.

Sent from my SM-G988U using RealGM mobile app

I don't think the Jazz are stuck. They're a 55-win team, and it's very difficult to take a step to becoming a legit 60-win team. From here, they need one more impact player--an athletic, two-way wing with length. They took a swing on Conley thinking he was the best player available to them, and it hasn't worked out. However, losing Jae Crowder, Grayson Allen and even Derrick Favors didn't change our outlook.

The Jazz can sit where they are, draft Paul Reed this year, and be as well off as they would be if they drafted Brandon Clarke last year. If they come away with Pokusevski, they might be even better off (though he won't contribute much in his first two years).

What you saw yesterday is a team playing without its 2nd leading scorer and with another starter getting ready to leave for the birth of his child. The team is thin and not really motivated to try to compete this year.

Also, if the Jazz could dump Conley and add Christian Wood in free agency, they might really have something. The only real problem with Conley is the opportunity cost imposed by his big salary. He should be making around $15M/year, and the $17M excess could pay for the player the Jazz really need.

[sipclip]

Feels like the entire team is just waiting for their turn to run no pass offense. Everyone just loafing around on defense and putting in no effort. This really shouldn't be a surprise given that this is how they left off. The break did not help. Quin had already lost this team and it's too late to implement winning principles. The players just don't care about winning.

I can't believe we are once again stuck in no man's land like we were the last few years of the Dwill and Boozer era. I feel like this time we are in much worse shape though because we are about to be at the beginning of massive extensions for our 2 so called stars while being completely capped out and not have all our draft picks. This thing needs to be blown up but that takes balls and smarts and jazz management lack both. The funny part about all of this is that Brandon Clarke who is the player that the griz ended up snagging with our pick is the exact player that could have changed this teams fortune going forward. He is the ideal power forward to pair with Rudy because of his ability to stretch the floor but more importantly he is going to be an absolute beast defensively inside and out. He has that rare ability to switch on the perimeter and cover smaller guards and while being Kirilenko esque as a help side shot blocker. Pair Rudy with a Kirilenko type defender at the 4 and you would have a truly scary defense. In the end though I wanted Bazley so if it were up to me we still wouldn't have had that Kirilenko type but I like what I have seen from Bazley as well. Clarke looks like he could be special to me though.

Sent from my SM-G988U using RealGM mobile app

I don't think the Jazz are stuck. They're a 55-win team, and it's very difficult to take a step to becoming a legit 60-win team. From here, they need one more impact player--an athletic, two-way wing with length. They took a swing on Conley thinking he was the best player available to them, and it hasn't worked out. However, losing Jae Crowder, Grayson Allen and even Derrick Favors didn't change our outlook.

The Jazz can sit where they are, draft Paul Reed this year, and be as well off as they would be if they drafted Brandon Clarke last year. If they come away with Pokusevski, they might be even better off (though he won't contribute much in his first two years).

What you saw yesterday is a team playing without its 2nd leading scorer and with another starter getting ready to leave for the birth of his child. The team is thin and not really motivated to try to compete this year.

Also, if the Jazz could dump Conley and add Christian Wood in free agency, they might really have something. The only real problem with Conley is the opportunity cost imposed by his big salary. He should be making around $15M/year, and the $17M excess could pay for the player the Jazz really need.

This is definitely not a 55 win team but the big problem is that we are going to be trending backwards in the standings as teams like the mavs, griz, thunder and pelicans overtake us. I expect that to happen by next year. I also think you will see the blazers with a healthy Nurkic jump back ahead of us. That isn't even mentioning the warriors or rockets. Next year I don't think we are even a playoff team and that means we lose our draft pick as well.

This is the way I see it shaking out next year.

Clippers
Nuggets
Lakers
Warriors
Mavs
Pelicans
Blazers
Thunder

I don't even have the jazz, rockets or griz in the playoffs but if I'm going to bet on anyone carrying a team into the playoffs it is going to be on Harden over Mitchell and Gobert.

I also wouldn't sleep on the suns with Booker and Ayton combining for 50+ points a game. I really like the core group of wings surrounding those guys in Oubre, Bridges and Cameron Johnson as well. They are a nice mix of shooters, slashes and defenders to compliment Booker and Ayton. Rubio is also an excellent fit on that team because they have the bigs and wings to space the floor and let him operate.

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[Catchall]

I can't believe we are once again stuck in no man's land like we were the last few years of the Dwill and Boozer era. I feel like this time we are in much worse shape though because we are about to be at the beginning of massive extensions for our 2 so called stars while being completely capped out and not have all our draft picks. This thing needs to be blown up but that takes balls and smarts and jazz management lack both. The funny part about all of this is that Brandon Clarke who is the player that the griz ended up snagging with our pick is the exact player that could have changed this teams fortune going forward. He is the ideal power forward to pair with Rudy because of his ability to stretch the floor but more importantly he is going to be an absolute beast defensively inside and out. He has that rare ability to switch on the perimeter and cover smaller guards and while being Kirilenko esque as a help side shot blocker. Pair Rudy with a Kirilenko type defender at the 4 and you would have a truly scary defense. In the end though I wanted Bazley so if it were up to me we still wouldn't have had that Kirilenko type but I like what I have seen from Bazley as well. Clarke looks like he could be special to me though.

Sent from my SM-G988U using RealGM mobile app

I don't think the Jazz are stuck. They're a 55-win team, and it's very difficult to take a step to becoming a legit 60-win team. From here, they need one more impact player--an athletic, two-way wing with length. They took a swing on Conley thinking he was the best player available to them, and it hasn't worked out. However, losing Jae Crowder, Grayson Allen and even Derrick Favors didn't change our outlook.

The Jazz can sit where they are, draft Paul Reed this year, and be as well off as they would be if they drafted Brandon Clarke last year. If they come away with Pokusevski, they might be even better off (though he won't contribute much in his first two years).

What you saw yesterday is a team playing without its 2nd leading scorer and with another starter getting ready to leave for the birth of his child. The team is thin and not really motivated to try to compete this year.

Also, if the Jazz could dump Conley and add Christian Wood in free agency, they might really have something. The only real problem with Conley is the opportunity cost imposed by his big salary. He should be making around $15M/year, and the $17M excess could pay for the player the Jazz really need.

This is definitely not a 55 win team but the big problem is that we are going to be trending backwards in the standings as teams like the mavs, griz, thunder and pelicans overtake us. I expect that to happen by next year. I also think you will see the blazers with a healthy Nurkic jump back ahead of us. That isn't even mentioning the warriors or rockets. Next year I don't think we are even a playoff team and that means we lose our draft pick as well.

This is the way I see it shaking out next year.

Clippers
Nuggets
Lakers
Warriors
Mavs
Pelicans
Blazers
Thunder

I don't even have the jazz, rockets or griz in the playoffs but if I'm going to bet on anyone carrying a team into the playoffs it is going to be on Harden over Mitchell and Gobert.

I also wouldn't sleep on the suns with Booker and Ayton combining for 50+ points a game. I really like the core group of wings surrounding those guys in Oubre, Bridges and Cameron Johnson as well. They are a nice mix of shooters, slashes and defenders to compliment Booker and Ayton. Rubio is also an excellent fit on that team because they have the bigs and wings to space the floor and let him operate.

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I don't agree with anything you've just said here, except that the Blazers could retool and be a 50-win team again next year.

First of all, the Jazz were tracking to win 54 games this year, despite Rudy's sulking and taking games off on defense. They've had the #1 offense since the Clarkson trade (even ahead of Dallas), and a top-8 defense when Rudy takes games seriously.

Next year, the regular-season standings should look something like this (barring significant injuries):

1 Lakers - They care about regular-season wins. They'll find a way to tweak their roster.
2 Clippers - They will probably load-manage, but they're completely loaded. Only downside is losing Harrell in free agency and Lou Williams' age.
3 Jazz - Mitchell is improving and settling into his role as an initiator. Bogey fits. Gobert is still a DPOY and All NBA player. Royce is a quality rotation piece. They need some defensive length.
4 Nuggets - Nuggets have a home-court advantage due to elevation, and MPJ could emerge as an impact scorer. Still lack consistent guard play. Millsap and Grant are FAs, which hurts their size and defense.
5 Blazers - They're back and can win 50 games. They need a defensive wing, but could possibly bring back Ariza.
6 Mavericks - They have no interior scoring without Dwight Powell. They chuck a ton of 3s and only play defense off and on. They could use a guy like Derrick Favors, but they're saving cap space for 2021.
7 Rockets - Small ball isn't going to work, but Harden and Westbrook will crank out some wins. Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker are aging. Both have looked bad much of this year.
8 Warriors - Steph and Klay are both over 30 and coming off injuries, Draymond has already been declining for 2+ seasons, Wiggins is soft defensively, and they're capped out with no quality depth. Lets see what they parlay their draft pick this year into. I see them competing for the 6 seed range, like they were before they acquired Iguodala and KD.

Thunder will try to move Chris Paul for future assets and might find a taker in New York. They'd like to move Adams as well, but may not have a taker.

Pels are young. Zion is likely to miss time. Ball, NAW and Hayes aren't ready. Ingram is an alpha scorer. Jrue is solid.

[KqWIN]

While things are gloomy, I think it's important to have perspective and not forget were we are. The Jazz are 42-24. That's a 52 win pace, and by no means did this team over achieve and in my opinion they clearly under performed. Hell, for about the 5th of the season the team gave up, admitted that they weren't focused on winning, and we were still on track for 52 wins. Just imagine if some things went right. Maybe Conley doesn't stink, Gobert doesn't quit on the team, Mitchell took a step forward, the bench wasn't hot trash, or Quin was able to manage this team...just one or two of those things go better an we're a much better team.

The problem is we aren't performing to our talent. The players have given up and the glaring holes on the roster (mainly the bench) are really causing problems. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, and it's important to have perspective. It won't take a miracle for this team to become much better...although the collective mentality of this team makes it seem that way.

One or two good moves combined with the players actually prioritizing winning will go a very long way. It says something about this team that they can stumble to a 50+ win season. Some teams spend decades to get to this level and can't do it.